[jkelley1985]

Hi!
I'm new to this but really need some help
SWIM has a 1.5-2 gram a day heroin problem. SWIM has suboxone but still got withdrawals. Can anyone tell SWIM a better way to get off this without the withdrawal? A good amount to take for this habit? Taking 3 or so 8mg subs doesn't help SWIM very much. SWIM needs to get off this ASAP and needs to be able to work while doing it because SWIM doesn't have any days off in the near future. SWIM and I thank you!

[Robert_325]

You need to stop all drugs until you are in severe w/d. Then we can do an induction with the suboxone. It's imperative that you be in severe w/d or you will simply go into precipitated w/d which is probably what has happened to you. Here is a link that explains the way I suggest using subs.

Under NO circumstances should you ever need anywhere near the amount of suboxone that you're talking about. I guarantee you that I can induct you and you will feel better than you have felt since high school and I'll have you on less than 10mg.

Read the link and let me know what you think. Pay close attention to the INDUCTION section and the link to the COWS worksheet. God bless.

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

[jkelley1985]

Just finished reading that and everything makes perfect sense. I pray that SWIM is able to get off using 10mg or less, it would show a light at the end of this long tunnel SWIM has been stuck in for years. SWIM is more than ready to get off and thankfully now has a means to do it. The problem now is that SWIM doesn't want to go into withdrawals at work, it doesn't seem that there is a way around this however. Maybe if the DOC was taken first thing in the morning then by early evening, after work, moderate/severe withdrawals will be in full effect. SWIM has read the COWS worksheet and understands what moderate/severe is. The suboxone will not be taken too early knowing this. SWIM is looking forward to starting this, just hopes that the withdrawals won't start til after work as said, doesn't want to be in withdrawal now that SWIM works with father. He understands and and is in recovery himself but thinks that SWIM has been clean for some time.

[Robert_325]

I see other people use this SWIM thing. I have no idea who SWIM is. I can YOU that if you start the suboxone right after work you will DEFINITELY go into precipitated w/d. One day is NOT going to get it. I can't help that you are working with your dad. I can only tell you what you need to do to make the suboxone work.

I suggest you stay in touch and communicate how you are feeling. If you'll do this like I ask then I can promise you the suboxone will work and it will work at the dose I've previously mentioned. If you make up your mind that you're going to begin the induction at ANY time before you reach at least a 26 on the COWS worksheet it's a guarantee for precipitated w/d.

I'm here daily and I'll see your posts. Let me know when you begin the detox and how you're progressing through the day. My honest guess is that you'll need somewhere around 24 hours. The good news is that once we begin the induction IF you'll follow my suggestions I'll have you totally stabilized within hours. But I've got to have your help to make this successful. God bless.

[Delysid25]

There has been a great reduction in dosing Subutex since I used it to get off 250mg. legal methadone. I was told to take very high doses 32-64 mg. I am not a doctor and don't want to harm anyone."You must be in the early stages of withdrawal before taking Subutex NOT simply wanting to get high-WAIT! Not forever but until there are some true symptoms. Put briefly my opinion based on experience and working with one "croaker" folllowed by a very well known psychiatrist I would take more. I can't believe he (you) was/were/are given such a low dose. They are made in 8mg sublingual tabs (don't swollow or use rectally as you will lose much of the amount. 16 mg is not considered high by an MD with experience and a true desire to HELP-NOT just make money. We have a very expensive "for profit" clinic (typical for my area) who will not give Subutex. Only Suboxone and that only a total of 11 tabs for the entire opiate withdrawal. Use the "Buprenorphine Physician Detector" that the government has put up and find the licensed M.D.'s in your area. Call al of them until you find a dedicated person who won't put you through hoops-other than visits. Shrinks are expensive and Subutex is about $10-$11 for each 8 mg tab. If you can't get off than I would recommend a methadone clinic-take as little as possible. I was a counselor at a clinic and they often will or want to give you 100+ mg/day. Reports are great for about a week. Than it doesn't matter how high the dose is -you won't get high. Only fat and lethargic,ED,no ejaculation,constipation like you wouldn't believe (so bad that some anuses get "methadone ileitis" or maga-impaction that requires surgery to remove the totally dried-up ilea. If you have been doing any real amount of "decent" heroin (indecent in fact) you have probably experienced lots of constipation. I found the best relief for constipation to be Propylene Glycol/ (it has a brand name OTC) or "Smooth Move"-an herbal remedy. I am not big on herbal anything but this is an effective and cheap tea. Use Colace or ColacePlus otherwise or Senakot (crampy). If you are addicted you WILL get diarrhea. Clearly a tie to take the Subutex. I didn't wait that long. Narcotics are so good they SUCK! Problems galore. Man-up and get off the ******** with Subutex. Detox is just the begining,though. Staying away is the REAL test and determiner of the quality of your entire f***in' life. Good luck friend.

[Robert_325]

Drs that give out 16mg doses are prescribing too much. Drs that prescribe 32mg are freakin idiots. That is a fact. People get inducted here on 6mg all the time and are off successfully in six to eight weeks. That's the way subs work, not all these ridiculously high doses. That's drs listening to drug reps trying to sell more medication. Funny those guys usually have a BS degree. God bless.

[bigjon30]

a yes the heroin addiction is a very tough one indeed and like all is supposed to help you not rip you so like said above just take the sub when you go into hard withdrawals and you should be way ok but until you learn to do this one will really be in deep

[pcaulder]

Make sure you follow Robert's advice about being in moderate to severe withdrawals before inducting. I went through the precipitated wd's when I got on sub from 70 mg of methadone, and it was terrible.

[intelmetal]

I agree with Robert, 8mgs works for 99.9% of opiate addicts and NO ONE needs more than 12mgs, EVER !!! The only catch is you must wean yourself down to not more than 30mgs of methadone before making the switch to subs if you want a real chance for recovery. Been there, Done that ! The good news is that I am down to .25mgs of suboxone, and am skipping days ! Do not let someone who is supposedly educated let you believe that Bupe is not super powerful medication ! A few grains is all it takes to feel it. IT IS STRONG !!
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !