[ejb199]

Effexor
Generic Name: venlafaxine
Treatment for: depression, generalized anxiety disorder, and social anxiety disorder (social phobia)

Have you taken or do you take Effexor?
We want to hear your story. Please feel free to share your experiences.

Consumer Information at:
http://www.drugs.com/effexor.html
Professional Information at:
http://www.drugs.com/pro/effexor.html

[psisci]

Why are you coming off the med? The best thing to do is to taper slowly. This is not a particularly good med for panic anyhow....



Dr.S.

[ejb199]

Im coming off them coz i feel much better now - i.e ive been panicking less and alot has changed in my life since i first went on them. so i kinda feel 'ready' to come off them.

i was on prozac and the propanolol but niether helped me at all with the panic attacks.

[earthshine9]

quote:Originally posted by ejb199

Im coming off them coz i feel much better now - i.e ive been panicking less and alot has changed in my life since i first went on them. so i kinda feel 'ready' to come off them.

i was on prozac and the propanolol but niether helped me at all with the panic attacks.

Effexor is a bad medication it totally screwed me up it worked for awhile on for my depression. but the longer I toook it the worse i physically felt. I had all kinds of stomach problems and body pain flu like symptoms I had to do a slow taper and i felt nauseated alot but finally im off that ???? alot people who have taken it have bad reports. Im glad your going off it but please dont assume you are well you might want to cosider trying something else.

E7

[colinsmom03]

Hi,

After having my son and being told by my doctor that effexor would have no effect during pregnancy, I have recently discovered that it is a class c drug, meaning there is not enough research to determine how it affects unborn children. My son was born 2 months premature, so I want to get off effexor before having another child. I have recently tried, going from 300mg, down to 150 mg and then switching over to 150 mg of wellbutrin. It did not go well. I felt really ill and totally out of control. Now I'm really scared that I am addicted to this drug--not a good feeling. Any advice? Do you have to just live through these withdrawal symptoms if you want to stop taking effexor? Or is there a way to do it correctly without the syptoms? Thanks.

[Tuules]

You need to taper off Effexor in [u]very</u> [u]small</u> [u]increments</u> of both the dosage amount and length of time - you can't just cut your dosage in half -- it is too drastic of a change to your system. I'm not surprised to hear of your side effects. If I happened to forget to take my meds, by the next day I couldn't get out of bed - too light headed, dizzy, and just out of it I couldn't function if I tried. I'd feel better after about 4-6 hours after taking it. I'm in the opposite position you are ... I need to get my Effexor dosage adjusted (increased) or my doctor may change me over to a different med altogether -- Lexapro. I made sure that I'm seeing a psychiatrist this time since it involves adjusting my dosage or switching over to a different medication. I've been taking Effexor ER 150 mg for over 3 years. Hope my story helps you out. Tuules

[lbw]

Oh - coming off Effexor is AWFUL!!! It feels like a combination of the flu, a nervous breakdown, and electric pulses zapping your brain. Your brain feels like the mush inside of a pumpkin. I also had hot flashes, crying fits and nausea. I quit cold turkey, which was REALLY stupid. I knew better, but I am now taking Wellbutrin (again), and my doctor assured me the worst was over (WRONG). Effexor works on norepinephrine while Wellbutrin works on dopamine in the brain, and evidently these do not overlap, because I still feel like ???? after a week. Coming off Effexor is very similar to coming off of Paxil (don't recommend coming off that cold turkey either!). Effexor withdrawal is by far worse than any benefit I ever received from the drug (and I have taken just about everything!). Effexor gave me night sweats and crazy vivid dreams. If you can get your doctor to give you something else, I'd try it. It was supposed to help with my headaches - nope, it didn't.

[AllisonL.]

quote:Originally posted by colinsmom03

Hi,

After having my son and being told by my doctor that effexor would have no effect during pregnancy, I have recently discovered that it is a class c , meaning there is not enough research to determine how it affects unborn children. My son was born 2 months premature, so I want to get off effexor before having another child. I have recently tried, going from 300mg, down to 150 mg and then switching over to 150 mg of wellbutrin. It did not go well. I felt really ill and totally out of control. Now I'm really scared that I am addicted to this --not a good feeling. Any advice? Do you have to just live through these withdrawal symptoms if you want to stop taking effexor? Or is there a way to do it correctly without the syptoms? Thanks.

[fbjenn2]

Hey. Im sorry to hear about the side effects of your withdrawl, but am also relieved[^] I stoped lexapro cold after I wanted to go back to Wellbutrin. I had horrible all night dreams that really freaked me out!! I thought maybe I needed the lex. now I know it may just be a comming off effect Thanks for the info!![:I]

[allycat1105]

Hi Tuules, I have finally just gotten off Effexor XR and man it really does suck. My doctor I don't think gave me enough time to properly get off of it. I did each lower dose in two week clips. Like I was on 150 mg while I was on it. Then I did two weeks at 112 then two weeks on 75 then my last two weeks were the 30 and now 2 days off and I feel like I can't even get out of bed. I think I am more screwed up now then I was while I was on the stuff, so I really think this med causes more harm then good. The only thing is that it did help my General Anxiety however, now I am dizzy all time, headaches that are horrible and just a feeling of total garbage. How long did it take you to feel better? [:I]

quote:Originally posted by Tuules

You need to taper off Effexor in [u]very</u> [u]small</u> [u]increments</u> of both the dosage amount and length of time - you can't just cut your dosage in half -- it is too drastic of a change to your system. I'm not surprised to hear of your side effects. If I happened to forget to take my meds, by the next day I couldn't get out of bed - too light headed, dizzy, and just out of it I couldn't function if I tried. I'd feel better after about 4-6 hours after taking it. I'm in the opposite position you are ... I need to get my Effexor dosage adjusted (increased) or my doctor may change me over to a different med altogether -- Lexapro. I made sure that I'm seeing a psychiatrist this time since it involves adjusting my dosage or switching over to a different medication. I've been taking Effexor ER 150 mg for over 3 years. Hope my story helps you out. Tuules

[Dirck]

Hello,

I'm Dirck from Holland. I'm taking since 3 year Effexor 75 and I feel quit good /stable now so I decided to stop taking this med because in 2 months I'm going to australia for a holiday. A good reason to be medicin free I thought.
I reduced my dose to the half since a week but have the same sympthons as written above (dizzy, realy strange dreams, weak/feverish feeling). Am I to fast with reducing? Is there an other medicin or alternative (homeopathic) remedy to reduce the side effects?
Thanks in advance: D.

[Dirck]

Hello,

I'm Dirck from Holland. I'm taking since 3 year Effexor 75 and I feel quit good /stable now so I decided to stop taking this med because in 2 months I'm going to australia for a holiday. A good reason to be medicin free I thought.
I reduced my dose to the half since a week but have the same sympthons as written above (dizzy, realy strange dreams, weak/feverish feeling). Am I to fast with reducing? Is there an other medicin or alternative (homeopathic) remedy to reduce the side effects?
Thanks in advance: D.

[teej]

I hate, but I love my effexor. And I'm torn between the two.



I have been on effexor XR 150 mg for close to three years, partly for depression, partly for stress. At first it was WONDERFUL I felt better than I had in years, I slept better than I had in years. Life was good......

then it started,.. at first I didn't realize I was forgetting a dose. Because I had forgotten, and didn't know I was forgetting. All I knew was I was having days of being horribly dizzy. So I wrote everything down and sure enough the next time I felt dizzy I could check my records (it took me several times to remember why I had them and to look at them) before I realized it was being caused by missing
a dose or more of the effexor. So I set reminders, and faithfully took it for another year, without getting dizzy.

Then the bill collectors started calling. I have always religiously paid bills the day I got paid, and I was letting them slip ... not just a month, but 2 months... again.. I never even realized it. The records I used to keep on paying bills... forgotten...

luckily as more and more of the forgetfullness was being shown to me the more I made a point to talk to my doctor (yes it took several visits to remember to bring it up, even though I had it written down).

Now that my head is a little clearer, I realize how bad it was, my dose has only been cut slightly but mentally it has made a big difference. I now take 112.5.

But now I have to get over this roller coaster I'm on, the plan is to cut my does again in 3 months, but it's been a month already and I'm still riding the dizzy train. It comes in waves, I'll turn my head and it will send me spinning, Somedays my joints hurt so bad I can't stand it. I cry for no reason what-so-ever (luckily I'm female and unlike you guys who have been on effexor I'm used to having mood swings [)] ). Some days My joints swell and ache.. Some days I'm so weak I can bearly do anything. I wish I had been warned of all this back when I first started taking it, the only thing I was told was you had to taper on, and taper off.. but I wasn't told it was going to be hell in between.

it's nice to know I'm not alone. but it would be better if none of us had to go through this at all..






















[xx(]

[rickeyrescue]

I have heard of a way to come off of Effexor to help mimimize the side effects. I am on it, and have been for may years now, and I know that when I come off of it that I will have to do it this way, as I am VERY sensitive to dosage changes. This is not a quick process by any means, but if you are like me- I am willing to do it no matter how much time it takes. She actually opened up the capsule and removed more and more "beads" of medication every day. The dose she was on had 90 beads (give or take) in each pill. She took like 5 less beads the first week, ten the second week, etc... The only time she reported that the symptoms were noticeable was at the very end, but they were nowhere as severe as when she tried to halve the dosage every 2 weeks like her doc prescribed.

[jalicia32]

Hi, I've been recently diagnosed with Narcolepsy. My Dr. prescribed Modifinil to keep me awake and Effexor to help with Cateplexy ( muscle weakness) I haven't really felt any side affects. Maybe because I started them both at the same time. I started with a dosage of 37.5mg for two weeks then up to 75mg. I feel it has really helped with my cateplexy. I get headaches every so often and sometimes I can't sleep. The Dr. says it can cause insomnia. I say take me off all the meds and I can sleep fine. Oh ya it did cause some break through bleeding because my Birth control wasn't strong enough (alesse) now I'm on Tri- cycline. The only other thing I can think of is sometimes I feel uncontrolably cold. I wake up at night with the shivers or it just comes over me. Is anyone taking this med for Narcolepsy??

[rickeyrescue]

Jalicia,
I love to research,so I found this article on both of your conditions and antidepressants, along with one personal experience on the bottom of the page:

http://remedyfind.com/review_long.as...eview_id=19533

I hope this helps!!

[susandean963]

I was prescribed Effexor in March. By June I was regularly "cutting" somtehing I have NEVER done in my 17 year battle with depression. By July I had been hospitalized after my 2nd suicide attempt. I am one of the unlucky ones who are allergic to this drug and developed what my doctor termed "chemically induced psychosis". I am stable now (on Zoloft) but still have very foggy recollections of those few months. I was angry, irritable, I could not concentrate...very similar to my symptoms of depression. I developed a very aggressive driving style, not a characteristic of my personality prior to the drugs. I was impulsive, reckless, even and all of this drestructive behavior was aimed at myself. It was the scariest experience I have ever had. I would never discourage anyone to take this drug. I have close friends who are doing great on it I just want people to look out for severe personality changes such as the ones I described. Be aware, be careful and don't wait to seek a doctor's help (like I did). I was afraid my doctor might be mad at me....hello?? I realize now she had no way of knowing how I'd respond to the medication though, for a time, my deluded mind had convinced myself she had done this to me on purpose. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the paranoia. I don't mean to make light of this but humor has always been my survival mechanism. So good luck to all of you on it and those of you struggling through the detox of getting off it.

Susan

[skierliz]

I am trying to slowly taper off effexor. I constantly feel like I'm car-sick, and I'm SO DIZZY! Does anybody know of anything you can do that might make this feeling go away or lessen? I can't do anything because I feel so sick! It is SO HARD to get off this drug because of the side effects! I am SO FRUSTERATED, and it never even helped me in the first place! I did learn to controll my panic attacks using other tools besides medication--finally--and I'm SO READY to be done with anti-depresents! It seems like I've been on them all, and I have had nothing but problems...Pacil made me have a seizure even when I followed my doctors orders to taper off that. Knowing what I know now...I would have turned my life completely upside-down before taking any anti-depresants. Thanks for ANY advice...I will REALLY appreciate it!!

[yummers]

Everyone,
from what I've read, we've had mixed experiences with Effexor... Most sound unpleasant. However, I want to say that MY experience was a good one... it literally SAVED MY LIFE... I was so depressed, anxious, and suicidal - but Effexor slowly, surely, brought me out of that deep, dark hole that I thought I'd never be able to climb out of. I have been on and off Effexor XR for years - I should have just stayed on it throughout, but didn't, because when I would feel better, I would taper off of it. Before I tell you HOW I successfully worked myself off of it, let me say this: Please, PLEASE, don't discourage others from at least trying it. EVERYONE REACTS DIFFERENTLY TO DIFFERENT ANTIDEPRESSANTS. We all have unique brain chemistry - where Effexor worked for me, it didn't work for a few of you. Want to know what DIDN'T work for me? Paxil, Wellbutrin, Remeron Sol-Tabs... And I KNOW that these antidepressants worked for many of you - and Effexor didn't. So please don't slam Effexor. "to each his own" you know?
How I got off of it was, I started to take it every OTHER day. A few years ago I was dumb and just tried to cut it off cold-turkey and had many of those symptoms described by all of you. Mainly, I experienced what I call the "Zingies" - the feelings of tingles, electricity zapping me, whenever I moved any part of my body. I had night sweats, vivid dreams, and body aches too. However, I didn't experience these effects HALF AS BAD this time. I just took a pill every OTHER day - and about 2 weeks later, took a pill every 2 days - then about 2 weeks later, a pill every 3 days - and on and such, until about 2 months later, I just stopped taking it, and didn't feel any effect. It has been over 2 months since I took that last pill. And I am NOT depressed anymore. Even with the weather (I live in Upstate NY - NO SUNSHINE, grey ugly days all the time) and with the stress of holidays, I remained un-depressed. Maybe at times I got 'low' but I HAVE NOT felt the symptoms of real, true, clinical depression that I've battled with for YEARS. I would suggest running my technique by your Dr., and see what he/she thinks of the every other day/every 2 days/every 3 days/etc... It won't happen overnight, and I can't even see anyone getting over it in less than a month. But again, "To Each His Own" - maybe others CAN get over it within a month.
BTW I clicked on the link provided by a previous post-er (sorry I don't know your name) and read that person's personal experience - I am shocked at how DIFFERENTLY this drug affects people. I had THE OPPOSITE EFFECT sexually... it acutally made my libido drop SIGNIFICANTLY. That was another reason I wanted to get off Effexor - I wanted to have good sex again; and more important, WANT to have it; to be quite honest...
Well that's MY story; just remember, everyone, what I said - everyone's brain chemistry is unique, and what works for me might not work for you. It sometimes takes people going thru 4-6 different antidepresssants until they find one that works for them. Don't knock Effexor just because it didn't work for you. IT SAVED MY LIFE. Honest. I would have committed suicide by now if it weren't for Effexor. But getting off it IS a struggle and HAS to be done carefullly and gradually.

[tracylee719093]

Hi Im on Effexor for depression. At first I took 75mg. It was OK. When my DR upped it to 150mg , i turned into a basket case within 24 hours. I was overwhelmed with guilt feelings & could not stop crying. Once I went back down to 75mg I was ok. But now if I go more than 24 hours without my dose I can tell. I start getting teary easy & crying for no reason.
I talked to my Dr & he explained it to me. Sorry I cant do the same for you. Anyway. he did tell me you have to be weaned off of it, a little at a time. Im scared to get off at all.

Tracy

[ccapel]

My experience closely resembles Yummers. I have been on Effexor for 6 years. It made a dramatic difference in my life (after MANY failures with other drugs). I quickly realized that one significant side effect was low libido (more accurately NO libido). So, I tried to quit - HA! Taper off - still no good. About 18 months ago I asked the Dr. he suggested I try move to Prozac for a couple of weeks and then drop off. That worked great - no zingers, no problems. But, after about a month clean I was feeling anxious, stressed, and turned mean again. My family convinced me to return to Effexor.

The big problem (no libido) still exists and it's causing problems in our relationship. Anybody got any ideas?

[damiond]

i just got put on effexor a couple of days ago and im worried that already i get stomach aches, headaches and lowered sexual drive... does any suggest lexapro instead... my dr said that these worked well for his female patients, b/c they had the lowest sexual side effects.

damion dehnert

[Gert]

Hello,

I have recently come off: Effexor 2 x 150 mg, Risperdal 2 mg, Gabapentin 2 x 300 mg, and Trazodone 50 mg.

During the course of treatment I experienced a number of side effects in increasing number and intensity. Whenever I complained about a symptom or side effect a new drug was added to the regimen or the side effects were attributed to "my" worsening condition. Each time my wife and I were assured that the side effects were not related to the drug. Despite our direct questioning of the Doctor, Psychiatrist and Therapist the drugs were denied as the cause of the symptoms.

Eventually I literally succumbed to the stuperous acceptance of my condition. I objected on a number of occasions to the drug regimen based on what was happening to me. My wife, because she was convinced by the medical professionals objected to me coming off the medications. The medical professionals told me I needed to keep taking the drugs.

The side effects included: Headaches, nausea, tinitis, dizziness, disorientation, forgetfulness, rumination or obssessive thinking, flat affect, numbness of feeling, mild to unresponsive catatonia, sexual dysfunction, Akathisia (restless agitated state of internal torment), seizures (electric shocking in the head), confusion, problems with vision, insomnia, somnolence, weight gain, personality change, despite years of sobriety started drinking to alleviate the side effects (esp. the seizures and numbness of feeling), increasing irritability, eventual suicidal ideation, eventual hospitalization for suicidal ideation, a blood disorder characterized as Polycythemia (the blood hormone GBHT responsible for making blood cells is over producing red, white and platelet cells leading to a thickening of the blood) and more...

Although I have not been given a diagnosis of Polycythemia the condition and symptoms are the same and after two separate blood tests confirming a problem I am awaiting a referral to Hemaetologist.

The reason that I initially sought help in the first place was for low mood in response to a custody battle with my former wife which ultimately resulted in her being able to move our children thousands of miles away. This was a difficult adjustment for me given that I was the primary care giver for our children as the mother was career oriented. After having had an in home assessment accompanied by a battery of tests by a Psychologist it was recommended by the Psychologist that she not move the children away because of the likely hood of her having future problems in raising the kids. After having spent $15,000 on the pre-court negotiations my lawyer asked me for $30,000 to go trial. I was unable to continue. Today, the Psychologists predictions appear to be panning out.

Anyways, my second wife who has attended almost all of my appointments with medical team in charge of my care had to eventually ask me to leave because I had evntually become unable to present as a decent human being. I had become irritable and was becoming increasingly angry.

I have stopped taking all my medications now and I am doing better. My wife and I are back together. I am still having to deal with a lot of anger at what has been done to me.

Today, we are researching the medications. What I have found to date are numerous horror stories involving a lot of people who have been adversely affected by the medications they have been taking.

I was a University educated, professionally employed male with a decent reputation in the professional community. Now, my reputation and credibility has been ruined. This is a difficult thing to overcome in the small town where I live.

Despite having had no diagnoses prior to this course of treatment, and without a face to face assessment I have been given 7-8 different DSM IV labels: Bipolar II Depressive, Avoidant and Dependent Personality Disoreders, Substance Abuse Disorder and a couple of others.

Further, their was no indication of a psychological problem in the assessment by the psychologist in the 6-700 questions I answered testing my suitability as a parent. In April/May of 2004 during a medical examination for job which specifically asked about Personality and Affective Disorders my Physician indicated none.

Most of my side effects are documented. I suppose I will have an easier time of it than others to seek redress to my current situaion, however, given the resistance by my care providers to date I still expect it to be a somewhat onerous process.

It was rather interesting to note the retrenchment of the medical model position by my therapist the other day when I broached the subject of what the medication has done to me. She was immediately defensive and began soliciting information about possible litigation and thoroughly cross examined me in regards to looking at my records.

Anyways, the research that I have done to date indicates, substantiates that all of the side effects I complained about can be caused by the medications that I was taking, further, there have been a number of lawsuits against the drug companies, including criminal cases, for the side effects caused by their medications.

If anyone has any advice about how I might proceed to rectify my situation I can be contacted at: onewomanonelove@hotmail.com

Take Good Care

[Casey55]

yummers,

Your post was very good and you made such an important point about how meds work for different people. People need to be really careful when they say a drug is bad, they need to specify it was bad for them and why, but that in no way means it doesn't work well for others.

I just had major back fusion surgery and they put me on a morphine pump and I got no pain relief and I was in major big time pain. After 24 hours, my doctor finally figured out morphine doesn't work on me and they switched me to a Dilaudid pump and I got relief soon after that. I would never tell people not to take morphine because it didn't work for me, in fact, it is the most used pain killer after surgery or for people in severe pain. I just happened to be someone it didn't work for.

All medicines have side effects. One person may not get any, others may get a few and others get different ones. Some may become so sick from the side effects they can't take the medicine at all. If one doesn't work, than another can be tried.

Thanks for making that point.

Casey

[Casey55]

Susandean,

Whow, you really did have a very bad reaction on the Effexor. I was on it for 7 months yrs ago and didn't have any side effects so it just goes to show how these meds work different for everyone. You are the worst case I have ever heard of, I am so sorry that happened to you. It must have been very scarey. I hope you are doing much better on the Zoloft now.

Best Wishes,
Casey

[Casey55]

Dirck and ejb,

I was just wondering if you could give us an update how you are doing since you went off the Effexor. You both mentioned you stopped it because you were feeling better and I am just wondering if you were feeling better because you were taking the Effexor. I hope you really didn't need it anymore and your symptoms have not returned. Unfortunately, so many people, especially people on anti-depressants and bipolar meds, start to feel better so they stop their meds and then they relapse. They are feeling better because they are taking the drug. Just wondered how it panned out for each of you.

Hope you are both doing well,
Casey

[Casey55]

ccapel,

Weight gain and sexual side effects are the two big reason people go off their meds. This is very common with the SSRI's. Talk to your doctor about taking what is called a Holiday from your medicine. There have recently been reports of patients who were having sexual difficulties on these drugs who stopped taking them on Fridays and Saturdays and were able to at least enjoy successful sexual activity on the weekends. It appears so far, that this approach has not produced a relapse in symptoms. This works better with the ones that have a shorter half life. Prozac is not as effective because it has the longest half life so not much change will occur when just stopping it for just two days. Paxil has the shortest half life of the SSRI's. When you stop it, it goes out of your system very fast. The down side is that because it has such a short half life, it has the worst withdrawal symptoms, where prozac has the best. See if your doctor would recommend trying this for Effexor.

Casey

[ELS]

I was on Effexor for 3 years, and I to tried to quit cold turkey and got really sick, I was even in the hospital a couple times. I felt like a drug addict where if they did not give me that medicine I was going to go crazy. I slowly came off, and slowly put prozac back into my life it took almost 2 months for me to beable to live my live my life again, and now I am on Geodon. Wich is helping a little but I am not used to the side affects yet I have only been on it for 9 days so we will see.

[face7777]

hi casey
thanks for your coments regarding the morph vs diladud, vicodin worked better for me i hear alot about effexor, but i just got depakote?? i'm afraid to take the first tablet fter reading the warning and knowing i take asperin and bendryl regularly i'm terrified of getting liver problems or pancreatic trouble wanna know if anyone has an experience with this drug?/? thanks

[Pete]

HI all.

I can relate to so may of your your concerns and worries about EFFEXOR. I have been taking it for about a year now and yeah I do think it has helped my anxiety somewhat, and I suppose made me feel a bit happier as I have been quite depressed.

Oh, and it makes me yawn like crazy sometimes!!

I am on quite a low dose, I only take 37.5mg a day which is in two doses as I break the tablet in half and take the first half in the morning after breakfast and the second in the evening after dinner. It works well and I have a good routine and yes I feel it does make a difference to my life and to how I feel. I don't experience too many very noticeable side effects, apart from the BIG YAWNS and drowsniess sometimes. I tried to come off it recently but the 'ZINGIES' were awful...exactly how people have described here. A sense of not 'being there' and 'electricity' in your brain, disorientation. NOT nice and not fun.

I went to my doc to ask about it as I had reduced to one half of 37.5 (18mg approx) daily and I was really stressed, and had a 'pumping' feeling on the top of my head as though it was going to explode. He advised that this was directly a result of trying to come off effexor too quickly and said i should take the full 37.5mg a day in two halves as I had been doing before. So back to square one. Funnily enough he said he was once on the BOARD OF DIRECTORS for this medication and that he knew what he was talking about!! 'Trust me' he said, and I suppose I had to believe him, although I find it hard to trust NHS docs in the UK as they always seem under so much pressure.

I would like to come off them and I am going to ask about what someone else in this forum has suggested (RICKYRESCUE) and getting the tablet which can be opened up to get out the 'beads' and then try taking 3/4 less beads over a period of a few weeks. If anyone can tell me if these kind of tablets are available in UK i would be grateful. I DON'T WANT TO BE ON THIS STUFF FOREVER!

Best of luck to everyone..... :-)

pete