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Dode (powdered poppy pods) withdrawls
Dode (powdered poppy pods) withdrawls
I hope that this fits as this is not about a classified drug that is prescribed. I just know that at the bottom of it all it is a drug and an opiate.
First, I live in Canada. I don't know if you have read any of the news articles surrounding this but if you do a search in Google for Dode, it will flag a few articles about Brampton, Ontario and I believe there is one about B.C. ports. This is an illegal drug made from powdered dried poppy pods that comes from India. It was not illegal in Canada (and so far as I know nor in the USA) but very recently it has been cracked down on and it has been banned from entering through ports. There have been quite a few "busts" that have happened. We have a large community of immigrants from India who have been actively using this drug, mainly cab drivers and truck drivers who use it to stay awake and provide them with energy.
Enter me. A single mom who has quite a few friends in the Indian community. One day, a few years ago, I was moving by myself and I had very little help but my cab driver friend was helping me out in between runs. I was complaining about how exhausted I was, even with energy drinks. He gave me a spoon of this powder, told me to mix it with juice and it will work just like an energy drink. It was AMAZING.
I was able to accomplish so much and felt like a super mom.
I have dabbled in recreational drug use before. I used to use marijuana in the evenings, just a hit or two, but I quit. I used to smoke cigarettes, 2 or 3 in the evenings, but I quit. Since a car accident I have become a regular user of Tylenol with Codeine, which we have available in Canada over the counter in 300 mg Tylenol/8 mg Codeine ratio. I usually take 4 at a time in the morning to start my day. Basically an extra-strength Tylenol 3.
When I tried this Dode, I kept telling my friend I felt like I was a little high, is he sure this isn't a drug? He laughed and said I must be imagining things, it doesn't create a high. It's only like a strong tea. I justified this, somehow.
I get introduced to a store owner who sells this Dode in small packets, I think it's 25 g for $11. He also tells me it is like a tea. I go from a once in awhile user to a daily user. I admit this is stupid but I NEVER asked what it was made from. I had been told it was just from a plant in India. Then I found out it was made from dried poppies and I said "Well, that's where Opium and Codeine and >>>>>> come from, how can you say that it's not a drug?". The answer was that this was before it goes to flower and produces the strong drug.
I start Googling dried poppy pods as Dode returned nothing a few years ago. I started to read about users who make tea from the poppy seeds (!!) and also a steeped tea from ground poppy pods. These users are from those types of sites who are sharing ways to get high. Also what shocks me is the amount of pods used. These people were using 5-6, maybe sometimes 10 pods at a time. So I start to justify my tiny use (I was having one spoon from a bag and it would take me a week to go through a bag initially and I believe 2 pods ground, filled the bag. So I was thinking I'm not so bad.
Fast forward to May 2009. I was in a car accident that herniated one of my discs and I was having tremendous pain. I was prescribed Tylenol 3's like candy and it wasn't helping my pain. Dode was the only thing that gave me relief. I also had a boyfriend who was a heavy user of Dode. Once again I was justifying and making myself feel better about myself because I wasn't taking as much as him. I was having to take 6 spoons to get a similar feeling that didn't match my first euphoric feelings. I was buying bags in 1/2 kg weights at $200 and going through it in a month or so.
Then in September, word started to spread that it was going to be difficult to find, maybe even made illegal. Prices were going up. I started to try to wean myself, thinking it will be fine. I paid once for 1 kg for $300 and figured I could do this. I got myself down to 1 spoon a day, then down to half a spoon and I had it measured out to run myself out completely and then I was going to quit. Then the very day I quit, I found a full small packet put away in a bag of mine. I was not strong enough to get rid of it. I was excited because of the possibility of the euphoric high I could get because I had weaned myself off.
So I took 3 spoons and had the most amazing body high imaginable. This is the WRONG thing to do. I threw my whole tapered off quitting scheme out the window. I ended up going through that bag, begging my boyfriend for 1 more bag and trying to taper off too fast. My last dose was a spoon and a half, the day before had been 2 spoons and the day before that had been 3 spoons. Wrong way to do it.
This morning was almost 72 hours of no Dode. I have not felt sicker since I don't even know when. The first 24 hours was fine because I take it every 24 hours at 11:30 am although I started to get a mild headache. I thought I would have a few drinks that night to help me sleep. It only made me feel an edginess, that feeling that I've missed doing something or an emptiness, then my legs started to ache like the worst growing pains ever. I had to sit in the bath for 3 hours to help the pain. Then I took a quarter muscle relaxant, a quarter Gravol (as I was feeling nauseated and it makes me tired) and a couple Tylenol with Codeine, thinking I would be able to sleep. I slept 3 hours maybe and it was fitful at best.
Then at 6 am the diarrhea started. I have a weak stomach as it is so I thought it was to do with the alcohol. I took 5 Tylenol 1's and a big dose of Kaopectate (equivalent to Immodium) to stop the diarrhea. It finally stopped by 9 am. I thought I was through it. The leg pain was practically non-existent. I went to work, had an energy drink and then more Tylenol 1's at 11:30 am. I was doing alright. I thought my stomach as doing okay so I thought I'd have a couple drinks while getting ready for Christmas. I was proud of myself, thinking this was the best present I could give to myself. One thing I regret was that I was so busy I did not eat more than a few crackers, cheese and meat slices.
At 2:30 am my stomach started to get really nasty painful. I mentioned before I have a weak stomach. I took an acid blocker and some anti-spasmodics thinking it was just that. By 4 am the diarrhea had come back. I took more Kaopectate, some Pepto Bismol , a quarter Gravol and tried to sleep. I woke up all night long, cramping, crying, pains through my whole abdomen. I finally took more of everything at 8 am. My boyfriend left me a flippin' bag of Dode because he couldn't stand to see me suffer.
At 12:30 pm I was bleeding when I went to the bathroom. At first I thought I wasn't but the last time I was sure of it. I have suffered too much. I am worried there is something wrong with my insides now because of my stomach condition and these withdrawals. I took 2 spoons of Dode and now I am feeling so much better although there is still pain.
I am so scared to quit now if this is what it is going to be like. I have about 23 grams left and I want to do it right. I have until January 4th off of work. I think I am going to try Immodium and Maalox this time as Pepto Bismol is hard on my stomach, I think. I am sensitive to Aspirin and Pepto Bismol is made of sacilytes which is same family as Aspirin. Kaopectate only sort of worked.
I would really like support in doing this but addiction is something so scary and shameful to talk about. I am a single mother and I am so scared if someone found out they would take my kids away from me. Yet besides my secret, I am a devoted, hard-working mom who provides them with everything they need. This habit has never once gotten in the way of what they needed or even wanted. I love them more than my own life and a mother without a secret addiction is the best thing I can do for them.
I would love any and all advice, as well. Especially if anyone here knows about Dode and getting off of it, even though I know it is an opiate and all of them are similar in withdrawals. It is just the commonality of using the same substance would be nice. This drug is mainly used by Indian men. I have never met any woman using this substance. Any advice is good.
I would like to know of something over the counter that will help me sleep. I read some posts from other threads about opiate withdrawals and I am going to make note of those recommendations. I cannot take Tylenol Sinus & Cold or Advil/Ibuprofen as it is VERY hard on my stomach. I would love recommendations about natural products as I know my boyfriend has showed me some products from a Health Food store which he says helps. They are Ayurvedic medicines. I would also appreciate stomach sensitive options. I noticed someone mentioned popsicles and icecream. Why is that?
I appreciate the time you have spent reading this incredibly long post. It took a lot of courage for me to post this. I feel so much shame in letting myself get to this point but I feel somewhat stronger knowing that I am not alone and I hope that I can use this thread to help me through this next week and a half.
meet me, cheeky, now you know some other female thats taken opium.
i had my very first habit many years ago on opium. only we dont smoke it here, we bleed it and then cook it, and hit it. (yes i know thats really dodgy but same drug mate)
you have a habit. simple as that. all of us here can relate to that. i guess i can really relate to the opium, and the pods, coz we used to go out and rip them out of peoples gardens. (thats bad too i know) but once you have a habit, you do everything to avoid those withdrawls you are talking about.
now im 5 months on suboxone, coming off years of methadone.
first thing i can tell you. opium withdrawls are intense, but no where near as long as some other withdrawls. so it will be short, but not nice.
you already know what you are in for, the restless legs. the diarrhea, hot n cold flushes, restless, stomach upsets.
there is a recipe on this forum, called the thomas recipe. or google it.
it will give you all the things to use while going thru cold turkey.
if you are able, taper down like you have been doing before you jump off, this will help slightly, but still you are going to have symptoms.
i wish you all the luck, i have to run, got someone just turned up.
i will write later and see how you are going.
take it easy, and you will be able to get thru this.
hey pandora, i just read that article about brampton.
wow. never knew that. seen some guy on here talking about his stash of pods, but i have only ever extracted the raw milk to use.
i agree with everything on that article cept for one thing. opium poppies ARE LEGAL TO GROW. if they stay as flowers, pods whatever. its the minute you start manufacturing the opium that it becomes illegal. if the cops came round to your hose and you had poppies, they couldnt bust you. but if they were all sliced (the pods) then they could do you i guess.
hope you get all the stuff to go cold turkey and get this over and done with, its starting to cost you too much ay!?
for what it is worth, i went on to use morphine, >>>>>>, methadone anything i could get my hands on. now if i had only stopped when i had a little opium habit....... but i couldnt. then i realized that methadone is by far the worst drug to be addicted to. its soooo addicting, and long lasting, and bloody hard to come off.
go for it now mate, your kids are young, they dont need to see you go thru a massive habit.
kick it to the kurb mate
Thanks much for the reply. It means a lot.
Yes I know it's legal to grow the flowers technically although I believe I read somewhere that it depends on the type of poppy grown now. That may be just in Canada. My boyfriend was growing a whole bunch in his front yard garden, although they only grew to the size of a golf ball.
The words Thomas Recipe sounds familiar. I will definitely look that up and get on that ASAP.
As for costing too much money, yes, definitely locally. I don't live near to the big city and we only have one guy who sells it here and he's bleeding everyone with no cares. I mentioned before the small bags were $11, he has them up to $30 last I heard. What used to be the $200, he is selling for $500. I haven't been to see him in a few months. The prices in the bigger cities are slightly higher but nowhere near the markup. My boyfriend has a contact that gives him large amounts for fair prices and he drives to the city to get it.
I had myself planned so I wasn't going to spend any more money on it and haha well so far so good on that end. Too bad I keep getting it for free. As I said though I have this one bag left and I have to do this. I can handle a lot of stuff, it's the stomach issues that I have to find a way to lessen.
I remember for a split second I was thinking I could try to find morphine or something of the sort. About halfway I thought no way in hell. I HATE the dependency on other people to give me something I need or want. I also don't like risking a chance of people knowing something bad about me. Also, truthfully that would only prolong the suffering by finding another opiate.
Do you know if there is any benefit to stretching out the times in between doses as well as lowering the dose? I'm thinking that's a good idea but also prolongs the final suffering and not sure if it would lessen the symptoms or not.
I have to go take the kids to go see some family members that are out of town and *ACK* possibly they don't have internet. We'll only be gone a day so I'll check back when I return.
I'm going to take this last bit of powder and divide it into as many portions as I can. When you say opiate withdrawal are short, how long do you think I can expect? I was on 72 hours this last bit. I have until January 4th to get through the brunt of it.
Thanks for your time!
Actually, cheeky, when you wrote that about Methadone, it reminded me of this documentary I saw from BBC about the top 10 drugs. These people had reevaluated the way drugs are rated as they have not changed since the 60's in what is dangerous and what is not. They mentioned Methadone as being fairly prevalent for misuse and is really not that much better than >>>>>>. As one guy said "If you can't find >>>>>>, methadone isn't great but it'll do." or something along that lines.
It was an interesting documentary. I was watching it to see if Dode was going to get flagged but nope. It seems pretty isolated or well-hidden at least.
You can find all kinds of documentaries on Guba.com from BBC and other places. Kind of a good time waster and mind distract.
dunno what that bbc doco was on about.
methadone is THE hardest drug to come off. seriously. thats why i mentioned you would be way better to come off the opium now, instead of gradually doing what i did over the years and ending up on 'done for years.
no dont look for morphine, thats just as bad. been there done that too.
yep spread out your dode, the longer the better, but at some point, just go for it. specially if you have till jan 4.
it will be 3-4 days, reasonably intense, so prepared for a bad flu or something, then its the lack of sleep. mind you i cant really talk, i never got thru those 4 days in the first place, i couldnt get past day 2 back in those days. my brain would convince me of all sorts of reasons why i should just have one more to feel ok. then i will do it. i didnt.
yeh we have a pretty bad opiate problem over here. poppies. yep. but the most available on the street is morphine from people who get it for pain, and methadone, from people on the program selling their takeaways.
at the moment tho there is a huge epidemic of people smoking crystal meth. i took 2 full years of it in ozzy, thank god i moved back home, and only ever done it twice. it gets you real quick and turns you into a psycho. i certainly was for a while. yay for me not being into that AS WELL>
well mate prepare yourself. maybe your bf can help mind the kids while you are in bed. your lack of sleep will be the last thing to go. i did ct off methadone in ozzy too, oh man that sucked. im sure i didnt sleep for 2 months. but thats not how long you are in for.
good luck pandora
Confessions of poppy tea head
I'm familiar with use of dode/doda, but am not as familiar with the withdrawal process, or on recommending hints on making it less painful and the more tolerable a process, unfortunately. I wish I could be more helpful in that regard. Since you're wanting to quit, I hope you're successful.
Truth be told, I've been a dedicated poppy man, a regular user of poppies, for about a decade now. In fact, it was close to Xmas, exactly 10 years ago, in 1999, I tried my first opium poppy tea, and I've been a daily user since for about 9.5 of those 10 years.
Like you, I too have a Google news alert for "dode poppy" and also for "doda poppy", which is how I came across your post. I too have been following the police crackdown on poppies in Canada, and have read a number of articles.
"Doda" happens to be a more common spelling than "dode" apparently , at least going by most news reports, so you might get more google hits using that spelling in addition to "dode". Another drug news site wrote a story in Nov. entitled "Canadian Doda Wars Heat up" based on emails I wrote to the guy who runs the site, informing him of what's been occurring in Canada lately. It contains links to a some of the news articles I found.
I erred on one fact I wrote though, i.e. I thought the police crackdown had begun just this year, with doda arrests in 3 Canadian cities: Toronto area (Brampton), Edmonton, and most recently the Vancouver area (Surrey), all in '09. But I later found an article of an earlier Brampton bust in '08.
Still, the crackdown is a fairly new phenomenon.
Poppy plants have been quasi-legal in Canada for decades, that is they've been treated as if legal to grow and possess - despite the fact Canada's narcotics laws clearly state poppy plants are illegal. I once had a print-out of the section of Canadian narcotics laws relating to opium & poppies. It states possession of any part of the plant is a criminal offense (I think I recall seeds are exempt, as they are deemed a food, and contain but ultra-miniscule amounts of morphine & codeine). However, significant morphine & codeine content is found in, not just pods, but in stems, leaves and roots too. Pods, of course, are the most potent, containing approx. 3X the morphine/codeine content of the stems & leaves, by weight. Most poppy varieties (except for the so-called "California Poppy"), whether possessing small, medium, or large size pods (like typical large Afghani ones) are all forms of opium poppy, all containing morphine & codeine. Even the poppy of well known war poem, "In Flanders Fields" ("..the poppies grow, Between the crosses, Row on row...", is a type of opium poppy. The Flanders Fields one is a small red poppy, Somniferum Rhoes, that grows wild in Europe.
I suspect one reason poppies have been largely tolerated is because they are beautiful icons, symbolic of fallen soldiers and war veterans, thanks to poet John McRae's famous poem.
That doda seller's claim doda comes from young, unripe pods is not likely true.
Even for decorative floral purposes, poppy plants get harvested after the pods have ripened and produced mature seeds inside, some days after petals have fallen off. Surely doda sellers would not want to sell inferior product made from unripe pods!
If authorities do decide to begin enforcing the letter of the law, police may be soon be ripping up little old ladies' gardens and arresting them, and arresting floral shop owners for selling stemmed poppy pods for decorative purposes (both gardens and the decorative floral trade have been tolerated to date) - in addition to busting the doda producers/sellers who are blatantly selling poppy pod powder as a drug!
Mostly, I'm a once in the morning poppy tea drinker, brewing tea from ground pods, stems & leaves. My poppies come not from doda sellers, but from a (quasi)-legal, reputable source the police do not interfere with - yet.
I grind pods into doda powder weighed out into daily dosages to take with me for camping or vacation trips, when tea-making is not as feasible. Otherwise I drink the tea.
Tea's much preferable to take than choking down pod powder mixed with water. Yuck. I once served my tea (made with pods, stems & leaves) to Sri Lankan who found it delicious. It reminded him of ayurvedic herbal medicine brews!
My habit's currently very inexpensive (a Starbucks coffee habit can easily be much more expensive than my poppy tea habit!) and has been quasi-legal so far, but if that changes I would want to try quitting like you are doing, Pandora.
I believe large numbers of people find opiates appealing (note the many Hollywood actors, for instance, who get reported in the news for addictions to "pain killers", i'e. opiates), because opiates may serve a useful purpose for some people, perhaps providing mental/emotional equilibrium otherwise lacking.
I've read a theory some opiate addicts may in fact have a pre-existing deficiency in the body's natural opioids, such endorphins. So some addicts may be trying to correct a biochemical opioid deficiency by ingesting opiate drugs to compensate. Certainly it's well known one reason why opiate withdrawal's difficult is because once addicted to opiate drugs, the addict's body ceases or drastically reduces production of its own natural opioids. Endorphins, enkephalins, dynorphins,endomorphins, are all endogenous opioids the body produces on its own.
It takes some painful days before a withdrawing addict's body resumes making significant amounts of its own biochemical opioids again, to replace the now-missing opiate drugs!
The worst abdominal cramps I've ever experienced (cramping of the muscles of the intestine, muscles you're not normally much aware of at all) occurred the last time I went without my typical daily morning dose - that was 9+ years ago! That incident proved to me I was physically habituated. And I've not gone a day without since, so I've never yet experienced full-on withdrawal.
I am somewhat curious though after 10 years, about what it might be like to be opiates-free again. Would I find I no longer felt mentally "normal" or healthy without it? Would I go back to being my old, pre-poppies neurotic self, overly prone to states of anxiety? Would I discover poppy tea does seem to fill a genuine medicinal need in me, afterall (as I suspect it may)? Or, would I discover instead I'd feel better without it, as if gaining a new lease on life mentally/emotionally?
At this point, not yet being forced by circumstance legal or financial, to quit, I'm too chicken to find out yet, as I don't feel ready to face the pain of withdrawal! I admire your determination, Pandora. You are braver than me.
I have thought that if and when I do decide to quit, if I don't go into an actual medical rehab program, and was going to try it DIY-style, as you're doing, I'd want to do research first on what methods and prescriptions are typically used currently by addiction-specialist physicians and detox programs.
I'm thinking I'd want to get prescriptions for an anti-cramping medication, for instance. I think you mentioned you have a prescription for a muscle relaxant. A BC provincial >>>>>> detox program used to use a prescription drug called Clonidine to help >>>>>> addicts withdraw, as it helps lessen some withdrawal symptoms. I don't know if it is still used for that, but I know it helped me kick cigarettes years ago, as it lessens symptoms of nicotine withdrawal too.
Anyway, if you haven't already researched (non-opiate) prescription drugs used in opiate detox, you might consider doing so. There might be specific drugs (perhaps clonidine even) your MD could prescribe that could lessen your withdrawal discomfort a lot. Maybe including a tranquilizer to help you sleep. Of course, you'd want to make sure any prescriptions you take are in the correct dosage and are compatible with each other.
I wonder what you might discover once you quit Pandora? Is your own brain & biochemistry such that opiates fulfill a seemingly necessary function and may actually remedy some imbalance? Or will you find you mentally feel pretty much fine without it, a habit you don't really need, and can do okay without?
I wish you good fortune!
good post dude.
only one thing. yes californian poppies have no opium.
but the icelandic ones, will kill ya if you take the wrong one.
only the opium poppies have opium.
and if you grow them together, they can cross pollinate and you get a mutant, that none of my friends were willing to give a go. just in case.
there are a few poppies around. like you say.
but you have to be careful, coz only the genuine opium poppies will do the job.
10 years is a long time mate.
I saw a documentary a few years ago, I think it was on HBO. It was called Methadonia. And it followed a few patients who are addicts, who take methadone to try and get off of >>>>>>. But they all ended up addicted to the Methadone. And they would by Xanax off the street for the ultimate high! The methadone clinics made it impossible to quit cause they would start them at such a high dose that it was hard for the patient to do a proper taper. Then if the patient asked for a drop in milligrams, the clinic would do a huge jump and the patient would be in horrible withdrawals so the patient would go back and ask to be put back on the high dose!! It was a vicious cycle!! The patients called the methadone, "liquid handcuffs"!! Meaning it had a hold on them so tight that they couldn't get off of the drug!! All the patients said it was worse than >>>>>> to kick!! It was a very interesting documentary!!
Originally Posted by cheekysod
Thanks for the reply. You definitely know a lot about this! Very informative.
I was wondering if my post would flag other people who know about this dode/doda. I forgot it is referred to as doda, as well. I am familiar with dode because of my punjabi speaking friends and how they call it. Doda is singular, referring to the single flower, dode is plural. I heard about the busts from them, not the news. I only started searching on it afterwards.
How many pods are you using for your tea, if I might ask? I have always had this idea in my mind that the more pods you are taking, the heavier the withdrawals. Hence why I thought my withdrawals would not be that bad because I was not taking that much. I have read quite a few articles where people use multiple pods at a time for their tea. Definitely, choking down the ground powder is not that great but I cannot imagine drinking an entire cup of fluid flavoured with that taste, either. Pleasant is not my choice of a word.
I have given thought to how I will feel after I am through the withdrawals, definitely. I will let you know. I do know that I am trying to be positive and believe that I won't be depressed or moody without out it. On the flip side, I have been using an opiate to "manufacture" dopamine production in my brain and once I don't use it, my understanding is that my regular dopamine production will not be that of a normal person. I very well could be end up being a person who doesn't enjoy life as much, for a while at least.
I am not sure that I believe a person would be drawn to taking opiates due to a deficiency, like a pregnant woman will find certain foods to fulfill a need of her body. I think that would be an easy justification to take opiates.
So I have 8 days to get through the brunt of quitting if I want to throw my body to the mercies of withdrawals. I was thinking that if cheeky is right and it will be 3-4 days of misery, I have too much dode to quit cold turkey in 4 days. I also had quite a rush from my dose yesterday so am thinking I took too much.
So this is my problem. I have been looking at my bag and thinking how best to do this. This will be my third attempt. My first attempt would have been my most successful, I think, as I had weaned myself down so gradually. I want to do it that way again but that will definitely push my withdrawal symptoms into when I go back to work.
What to do? I am thinking about spreading it out, drawing it way out. Trying to miss an entire day so I am taking my normal 2 spoons every other day. See if I can handle that then lessen those 2 spoons amount down to a spoon and a half, etc., etc. I think I have 10 spoons left. The problem with this idea is that, if successful, the entire process would be very long.
As for my boyfriend, I used the term loosely, more as a way to simply define his previous status in my life and explain who he was and how I got dode currently. He cannot care for my children, nor would I let him. We only talk once in awhile and he is not my boyfriend any more. I have to do this alone.
Okay, so I'll plan for about 96 hours of bodily misery and get on that Thomas recipe you mentioned. My "boyfriend" had told me that it was 3 weeks for him when he was forced to quit after coming to Canada. The thing is that he is/was a heavy user and consumed large quantities every few hours.
I wish I could just sleep through it all but that would be too easy. I was thinking maybe I can push the withdrawals to land on the weekend after I return to work. Hard to say but I do agree with you that I should just go for it. I have to get this done and I know I can do it. The one thing I have to make sure about this time is not drinking any alcohol during withdrawals. Perhaps it works for some people but I really think that's what messed me up so badly on Christmas Eve. I can drink only under certain circumstances as it is because my stomach is so weak. If I drink during this period, I'm sure I will damage my digestive system. If I just deal with the regular symptoms, I hope to manage it with medications.
It's interesting to note that one of the reasons why I used dode was because of my stomach. My recent increase in using it was to do with the car accident and surgery. I had stomach problems on a daily basis. Constant pain, always using anti-spasmodics and antacids, having to watch my diet, doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong, tons of tests. Then I started taking dode and my stomach has been fine except for the odd episode.
Anyway, day 1 is today and I have cut down my dose so I won't get a rush, I just want enough to not get symptoms.
Thanks for being there.
Originally Posted by cheekysod
Hah, you'd written so much that I didn't remember to reply to all that I'd wanted to. I have given thought to talking to my doctor about this if I cannot kick it this time. I just have this great fear of sharing this weakness with him even though I know doctors are trained to understand that addiction is a condition and treat it medically.
I also don't like putting too many things into my body (haha) as my body is quite sensitive. I always find that I have to take half or a quarter of a normal dose to achieve the same effect a medication would have on another person. Muscle relaxants, for example, I only need half or else I need to sleep for 16 hours and have a foggy head for a day after. Same for Gravol, although I have to take a quarter pill as half is still too much for me.
I do wish I still had some diazepam left from a prescription I was given years ago, as I have heard that this type of medication helps greatly with withdrawals. I am thinking to get Valerian root as a substitution in order to relax me in the evenings.
I think I have quite a list of items to have on-hand but I am okay with that. Almost all of these are over the counter I'll list my "recipe" for your reference if you do make the choice to quit one day and I will also grade them for their success of use after I am quit.
Maalox (eases indigestion/heartburn quickly)
Pepcid AC (reduces overall stomach acidity)
Valerian root (natural, mild sedative)
Ginseng (provides energy and helps handle stress)
Vitamin B complex (helps handle stress)
Multivitamin/mineral supplement (help body retain what is being lost)
L Tyrosine (this helps with one's mood, the way it works is very interesting and I am definitely going to try this)
Immodium (helps stop diarrhea)
Antispasmodics (this a prescription used to stop stomach cramping but I read that peppermint oil is a natural antispasmodic)
Muscle relaxants (help with spasms and sore muscles)
Gravol (helps with nausea and provides some help sleeping)
Tylenol 1s (aids in pain relief)
So I made the choice to stretch it out as long as possible. Today my body is feeling it, stomach-wise. Perhaps I cut back too much yesterday but I can't be a princess about this. I am bound to suffer something, even prior to actually stopping. I remember this from the first time I tried to quit.
My "boyfriend" surprised me last night. He'd disappeared for 3 days, not answering calls, no nothing. Now I find out he's trying to quit cold turkey. Poor bastard. I don't know if I inspired him when he was watching me suffer (lol) but he's in a lot of pain. He's very, very sick. His whole stomach is rigid. He's alternating between vomiting and diarrhea. His entire body hurts. He's starting day 4 today and I'm happy for him that he's been this strong so far. He's putting himself through hell. He's also quitting drinking too and I hope and pray that he manages to stop both for good.
I am going shopping today for my modified Thomas recipe.
good luck pandora.
while i was using opium (iv) i never was able to get past day 2, thats why i ended up on the methadone, i would take opium all summer, then have to buy morphine or methadone on the street.
we only get opium in the growin season, ive never seen it as dode over here.
too far away, and pretty good customs.
anyway, your bf should start to feel a bit better after today, tomorrow.
that way you can guage how long you will be crook.
i know with hindsight i should have pushed on thru while i was only addicted to opium. once i got on methadone, the withdrawls are so much worse, and longer and awful. (and i was on for over 10 years in the end.) liquid handcuffs alright. thats what we call methadone over here too.
sounds like you have a good plan goin on. failing all that there are subs, you would need a minimal amount to stabilize and they are far easier to count off.
my first thread was purpledogs thread for success (she got banned) so cheeky popped up, have a read of my thread sometime if you wanna see how ive been going.
good luck girl
get off those damn opiates matey,
oh and happy new year.
Last edited by Anonymous; 01-01-2010 at 04:56 PM.
Poppies, doda, etc. (cont.)
Hi Pandora: I hope your detox efforts are working out for you okay.
Too bad I'm practically a "virgin" when it comes to experience with kicking and withdrawal, as I've barely attempted it in 10 years. So I'm glad there's Cheeky & others with detox experience to share with you.
Thanks for posting the list of medications helpful in the withdrawal process.
I'll want to save the list for future reference, for if & when I decide to kick too. I would want to be well prepared to help maximize odds of success and minimize pain.
You asked how many pods I take as a daily dose. Well, I mostly think of it in terms of weight (grams) rather than number of pods, as pod sizes can vary from tiny to large. I don't use large-pod varieties such as are seen in photos from Afghanistan, i.e. the big round ones that get to be 2"+ diameter, although I have used them before. I now use medium pod size varieties They are longer than they are wide, and so aren't as round as the large ones. They average slightly less than 1" diameter and 1.75" long. Of the type I use, the average size pod weighs approx. 1 gm, after seeds and what I call the "nub" have been removed (I coined the term "nub" for that very hard connective part where the pod attaches to the stem. I'm sure there's a proper name for it that I don't know).
So, I can say I take approx. 28 medium-size pods of average size, as a daily dose (= 28 gms.) When I socialize, I might take just a tiny bit extra, an added "pinch" (i.e. what I can pinch between thumb & forefinger) of doda powder, which weighs just 0.3 to 0.5 gms.
Thinking back to 10 years ago, before becoming a daily user, I early-on found I liked a dose of anywhere from 15 gms. up to 20 gms. at a time. If I took more than that, I risked mildly overdosing, which meant serious nausea and vomiting. On gaining tolerance, I gradually raised my dosage over the course of the first year of steady use, till finding a dose that seemed to suit: I settled on 28 grams. I've stayed plateaued at that same 28 gm. dose ever since, for 9 years. Luckily, I've not felt the need or desire to continue raising my dose, as >>>>>> addicts may often feel compelled to do.
As I mentioned earlier, I also make tea from stems & leaves. If I was to make tea from stems & leaves only, I'd use 84 gms. ground in a coffee bean grinder. 84 gms. is 3 times the amount by weight compared a pods-only dose, as stems & leaves are approx. one-third the potency of pods.
As far as the taste, I've gotten to like the taste of the tea, especially if it's made with a significant amount of stems & leaves. I like the herbal flavour.
Even tea made entirely from pods is not unappetizing to me though. As you know, pure pod powder on its own is bitter, but with water diluting it in tea, it's far less bitter. I typically do three "pressings" if I'm making tea from doda powder. That is, I'll boil & strain the same powder dose 3 separate times in total (=3 servings of tea), to make sure I extract all the active ingredients. With stems & leaves, it's a bit harder to extract all the "medicinal" value, and so I'll typically do at least 5 "pressings".
I often make 3 weeks worth of tea at one time using a huge pot and a large wine-making plastic pail, and I bottle it into say 22 1-liter size bottles to store in the frig.
Even after 5 pressings, the used stems & leaves still contain some value, and so I'll do several extra pressings over several days, after bottling my 22 bottles. So, for several days after making a big batch, I'll over-indulge slightly by imbibing the results of those extra pressings on top of my normal dose. (Hey, it's hard for a habitué to throw good opium in the garbage - I'd rather extract as much as possible!)
Those times in the past when I acquired large pod varieties, I found they can sometimes be more potent by weight than the smaller head ones.
I got very sick to the stomach once taking 28 gms. of some large-pod ones reportedly imported from Romania, because they were, I'm guessing, perhaps
25%+ more potent than I was used to. 20 gms. would have sufficed.
I don't actually know where the ones I use nowadays are grown,
but they are amazingly consistent in potency. I notice no difference in potency from one batch to the next, or from one year to the next.
28 gms. does the trick every time!
Thanks, Pandora, for explaining that in Punjabi language, the term for poppy flower is doda (singular) and dode (plural). I was merely guessing before (wrongly) that doda & dode might be interchangeable terms meaning specifically "poppy pod powder".
[Amusing to me is my Mom's nickname has always been "dodie" or "dode"! Another bit of trivia is from google alerts for "doda poppy" I've learned Doda is also the name of a district in India, in the Kashmir region, and by coincidence happens to be a popular area for illicit poppy growing in remote spots in the mountains!]
This reply has little to do with dode. It is more to reply to doc.rose's post which I just saw due to a computer crash keeping me off for a few days. Rosie, yo uKNOW I love you but I need to play devil's advocate here. I also saw the documentary methadonia and while it was true to a very limited degree, it was highly exaggerated. They focused on a small group of people on methadone who were NOT using the program in the proper way. They were in a program in Manhattan which has a reputation for being pretty loose with it rules, with a high number of homeless, old time addicts as clientele who, obviously, from the show, didn't want to get clean. I was on a program on Long Island which was VERY focused on getting people better. If one of those people from the show came to LIJ they would either stop what they were doing, or they would be gone. Additionally, once you get on methadone, YOU have to work it yourself. If you leave the program and buy extra meth, or xanax, you are still an addict just like if you do what a very close person to me is doing, staying on 4 mgs. of sub for an extended period of time because she "feels" it, so you are not doing right. If you stabilize on your dose, get a job, do not get high on other stuff, methadone will work FOR CERTAIN PEOPLE. By that I mean hard core addicts who have trued and failed at other forms of treatment. It's something people don't want to admit. There are a group of people who can't quit otherwise. So, methadone does have its place as does every other type of treatment. It IS hard to get off of yet doable (slowly or with subs). I will say what I always say, if it works for YOU, its all good.
Hey NYG! I know what you mean. The person has to want to do the detox in order for it to work. Where I took my brother for his detox was pretty structured. Of course it wasn't successful because he didn't even try after the 28 days were up, he gave up and went back to his girlfriend. But I do think in some cases, Methadone is prescribed at a too high dose to start with that makes the taper more difficult. Just like subs. What I have learned from people on this forum, a doctor that prescribes 32mg of subs to start is considered a high dose. My brother did a maintenance program in Tampa (a friend of his paid for it) and he was using on the side scoring xanax and more methadone to take with his maintenance dose. I will say that the one dude in the documentary that they showed in the end, who was able to kick his addiction, looked so good compared to when he first started the documentary. I hope he is clean today!! I think if Methadone maint. works for someone, then they should by all means do it. At least it is structure. But my brother is different because methadone (pill form) is his drug of choice. So him being on a methadone maint. is like heaven for him. To be honest, when he did the 28 day detox, they started him out at 40mg a day. And he did ok on that amount. He wasn't sick, no diarrhea, no vomiting. Had enerygy and an appetite. But he didn't want to deal with the psychlogical effects of detoxing. He was against meetings, and talking to a counselor. I just don't think he was ready. He loves getting high and that eventually led to his relapsing. Even when he did the methadone maint.,he still sought drugs on the side to accentuate his high! I think methadone maint is a good thing. LIke you said, stay at a dose where you aren't high and it is just enough where you can still function as an adult. Keeping a job, etc.
I did find the documentary very interesting though. It was sad too. I think you are right that the clinic needs to be more disciplined and structured in order for the patient to be successful. You cant give them such a high dose that makes a taper plan impossible.
Perils of methadone & dangerous poppy varieties
Thanks to contributors corroborating evidence methadone's ultra-addictive. This makes me very wary about ever considering methadone as a desirable route to kicking opium (-out of the frying pan into the fire?).
Cheeky - I wanted to check out your mention the Icelandic Poppy is dangerous. So I dusted off my copy of "Opium Poppy, Botany, Chemistry, and Pharmacology", by L.D. Kapoor, PhD, an informative, scientific/scholarly book on poppies I've not yet read straight through. Up until now, I've used it more as a reference book, to look up.specific stuff. So I hadn't noticed it before, but the book confirms what you say. Icelandic Poppy, "Papaver Nudicale", is a species containing deadly cyanide. Definitely one to avoid!
I see the book says the poppy genus is "Papaver", and 110 distinct poppy species are contained within the one genus. Beyond that, many of those 110 species also have numerous varieties. Opium poppies proper are those varieties all contained within the species "Papaver Somniferum", of which there are many varieties. So, there are in fact lots of different types of opium poppies around, as Cheeky says.
... Tall ones, short ones, tiny-pod ones, large-pod ones, potent ones, less potent, red ones, white, red & white, pink ones, blue ones(?),
smart ones, moronic ones (oh, sorry, no, that's people, not poppies!)
Virtually all varieties of P. Somniferum are likely to contain at least some morphine content. However, this is not true of the rest of the Papaver genus.
Most other Papavers do not in fact contain morphine, though some do, and some contain other psychoactive alkaloids related to morphine.
Thebaine, for instance, is one such alkaloid. Though related to morphine, it's in fact a stimulant, unlike morphine. Thebaine, like morphine, is a banned drug under many countries' narcotics laws. Some Papaver species lacking morphine, happen to contain thebaine, among otehr things.
In an earlier post I mentioned the Flander's Fields poppy, Papaver Rhoes, is also a type of opium poppy. It is in the sense it too contains morphine, but it's a separate species from Papaver Somniferum which is, of course, generally thought of as THE opium poppy species. P. Rhoes appears to be one of the very few non-Somniferum species within the Papaver genus that actually contains morphine. Most others outside of Somniferum do not contain morphine or codeine.
Codeine is so closely related to morphine, your body actually turns codeine into morphine, once it's in your blood.
So, taking codeine's really just a slowed-down way attain morphine effect.
>>>>>>'s the opposite of codeine, in a sense. Instead of being a slowed-down morphine effect, >>>>>>'s a "speeded up" morphine effect. >>>>>> effect is morphine effect multiplied, which is also why it takes smaller amounts of >>>>>> than morphine to give an effective dose, and why >>>>>>'s often said to provide a higher high.
Day 4 of really tapering down. I am taking 1 spoon a day which is alright. I am not enjoying it. Day 2 into day 3 of tapering down was the worst. Leg pains, general discomfort, stomach problems. I have a constant niggling headache. My stomach is not in the mood for anything. The leg pains have ceased but my back has not stopped aching nor my incision scar from my back surgery.
I have also included some natural remedies. I think once I am actually through this, I will spend the time to list everything I took and did not need, etc. Immodium definitely works. I was wary as Kaopectate did not work for me so well. The stuff tastes horrible but well, if it works, it works, eh?
I am slamming my body with calcium & magnesium, B12, B stress complex and ALA. I may be imagining things but I was not feeling so bad yesterday. I am also trying the L Tyrosine. Again, maybe I'm imagining things but I do know things could be a lot, a lot worse.
Cheeky, thanks for continuing to be there. Means a lot when I see a post commenting and cheering me on.
My laptop battery is about to die so I'd best cut this post short. Will make some comments later on though.
hey pandora, good on you.
tapering for me was never possible, it was take it all today, tomorrow i will worry bout tomorrow. then i was sick, and it was all over again. score, take it all. run out.
interesting read up on the poppies. i know you can get some that are so dark purple they almost look black. they are beautiful. they also come in single petals, (we call them the genuine ones, "the raw prawns", pink, with purple in the middle bit) but we get pom pom ones, all fluffy with lots of petals.
and the white ones, they bleed pink, and seemed to be the strongest of all)
i cant beleive you guys drink the sh!t, eeewwwww yuk. that was always my excuse for blasting it, coz i didnt like the taste. and actually, if i smell opium cooking, it makes me puke, automatic reaction. coz a large amount hit up definately can make you sick right away. (you feel great after it tho)
over the years i have learned to spot a poppy a mile away, and even when they are only an inch tall tiny seedlings i can tell if they are opium or not.
not really something to brag about. but hey i used my biology for scientific research. lol.
pandora, you sound like you are gonna get thru this. i know that when i was really withdrawing off methadone, i took some codeine and a sedative, which helped ever so slightly, with a bit of sleep. i know codeine is also addictive, but if it gets you over the hump, well i used it anyway.
take it easy
Right, so onto day 5 and I have to go back to work tomorrow. I hope I can taper this down enough to hit total stopping point on Friday so I have the weekend to deal.
Bobb, I was talking to my boyfriend about what you were saying in regards to amounts and making tea. He's from India so he was nodding his head a lot and saying he's heard of lots of people doing this. He was even telling me he knew a guy back home who used to eat an entire big bowl, like the size of a mixing bowl, in a day. I'm shocked that much in a day wouldn't kill someone from malnutrition, as I don't imagine there being room for food.
I asked him what he takes now and what he was taking before as he is tapering as well. He used to take around 15 grams at a time, 3 maybe 4 times a day. Now he is taking about 4 grams at a time, once maybe 2 times a day. I think I'm down to about 1 1/2 grams. I'm eyeballing it, as you probably know.
Potency definitely has a huge impact. I remember there being a stark difference in the packets brought up here and sold by the local store vs. the packets my boyfriend could get from his friend. Mind you, we were also convinced the local guy was powdering stems and mixing it in to cut the amount he was actually selling. Ahhh, every time I talk about that guy, it makes me mad. He is bleeding his own community dry with no shame. It is not just the dode addicts, either. He over prices every thing else in his store which are easily gotten from the warehouse stores in town. He over prices his imported clothing from India as well as over pricing the jewelery he imports. Even his movie rentals are over priced and so is his take-out food. It just makes me mad. He seriously needs competition.
As for all the different poppy types, I was completely foreign to this entire topic until I found out what it was I was actually ingesting. I am fascinated by what both you and cheeky know. When reading about the pink and purple type, I would love to see that. I love purple anything, especially when blended with pink in places. Although I had definitely better stick to just looking at pictures!!
Yeah, the tapering deal is hard cuz I know the packet is there and it has enough to give me the rush I so love. That is one of the things that I find most difficult. The love of the feeling it gives me. It is what I look forward to everyday. I loath giving that up which I know is one of the most dangerous mindsets to have in quitting. I guess it's a good thing I'm damn stubborn.
Agreed about the codeine. It doesn't do anything much for me but it helps a little bit. I'll quit using that at a later date. Right now, dode is my biggest and toughest concern.
This tapering stuff is difficult but definitely not as difficult as stopping everything cold turkey. My stomach was acting up in the early AM again. I can feel my back hurting really badly, although I did a lot of lifting and moving things yesterday. I think that pain is more related to my surgery/car accident but I know quitting opiates does cause back pain. Could be a combination of both.
Now I know you said you're on subs. This is that sub which is discussed a great deal on threads already existing on here, is it not? That sounds like it is so incredibly difficult to get off of. Important thing is that you're off the heavy stuff and on something managed and you're able to function.
yeh pandora, my first ever thread was purpledogs thread of recovery. ive just popped back on there. got banned for cursing and sh!t back then.
so i was reborn as cheekysod, and my thread is sub taper <2mg.
have a read, i guess it shows you all the cr ap ive been thru to get off subs.
and all the other hard stuff.
im nearly at the stage of jumping, actually i am at the stage of jumping but im having some really freaky thoughts. about the actual time i am clean. it scares the hell out of me.
since i started on subs, i havent had a blast (shot up) and i havent had that rush. but i havent actually missed it. in my head i know what it was like, but in reality on subs, i havent worried one single day about that.
coz the rush is only a small part of blasting opium, or smack,
its all the cr ap, and runnin round scoring, and having no money, and havin to tik it up till payday, and owing money, and being broke, and sick, and hangin out, and withdrawin and sufferin i dont miss that one single little f***n bit.
so get over the rush side of things. you either want that rush, or you dont. i know how you feel, trust me i do, but that rush is nothing really. a moment in time is all.
good luck pandora
p.s i had a major car wreck on the way to pick up my methadone in 99, broke six bones, got cut out of car. jaw, pelvis x 3, leg, collarbone i was in a right mess.
our brains trick us matey. it tells us we are sore. it is probably withdrawls. i get a bit achy now n then, on this low dose. im gonna jump soon, im a bit scared tho.
Last edited by Anonymous; 01-03-2010 at 11:17 PM.
Opium vs. >>>>>>, new Dode arrests
How's the tapering off working out? It sound like you & your boyfriend are both succeeding in cutting back significantly. If I ever decide to quit, I should maybe contemplate trying your method, instead of cold turkey with prescriptions to ease withdrawal, which I think is kind of what I had in the back of my mind before. Maybe tapering off is a better idea,. It's certainly less of a shock to the system.
That sounds like a heavy habit that guy had. Up to 15 gms. X 4 times a day is more than twice what I take. Congrats you've both been able to cut back so much.
I'm glad I found a dose I was happy with and didn't feel a need to raise it beyond that. Mostly, I don't really like the effect of taking a lot of extra now. I don't like the feeling of being too dopey, where I just want to lie down and close my eyes! It becomes a bit boring. I'd rather be functional and alert.
I did try (smoking - "chasing the dragon") >>>>>> about a dozen times 10+ years ago before I ever started using the tea, but have no interest in >>>>>> now. However, I admit there was something I liked about the >>>>>> effect I never got from opium. On >>>>>>, I did enjoy lying down, eyes closed, being "on the nod", because >>>>>> provoked pleasant visual daydreams you could create and direct almost like a movie director! But I never experienced that same dreamy effect with opium quite, even when I took enough that I overdosed to the point of serious nausea. Maybe opium's not strong enough. Or maybe some people can have >>>>>> type daydreams on opium, and others can't.
Afterall, the expression "pipe dream" derives from opium smoking dreams!
It's interesting another common English expression traceable to opium use is the word "yen". To have a yen for something is to have a strong desire for it. And "yen" originally referred to a strong desire for opium.
Cheeky: I enjoyed reading your descriptions of "sexy" poppy flowers in multiple colours! I didn't know there are dark purple, or pink & purple ones.
In my 'hood there are lots of large public planters at intersections volunteer gardeners look after. Some of them like growing some poppies along with other plants & flowers. Also, poppies are not uncommonly seen grown in people's yards around here too. Local rogue poppy harvesters are hip to what's contained in the poppies though, and the plants typically disappear, stalks and all, some days after petals drop off. I'm not one of the rogues. I have no need or yen to "liberate" poppies from gardens, even public ones, so I don't! I do enjoy admiring the fresh flowers and pods though. They are beautiful plants.
Fresh, undried pods are reportedly much more potent than dried ones, I've read 3X as potent. I don't have a garden and my apt. deck gets insufficent direct sun,otherwise I'd definitely be an avid poppy gardener, I'm sure!
Btw, my "dode poppy" google alert found new arrests in Brampton Ontario a few days back. An 80 year old and a 41 year old, I think it was, both South Asians, were arrested for possessing dode. Large amounts of powder + dried poppy heads were seized. Obviously they were sellers. The crackdown continues...
yeh i was a rogue poppy harvester. i like it to sound that way. instead of stealing ol ladies flowers.
anyway, its summer here, the end of the poppy season, but im drivin round and seeing plenty of em. mostly all finished flowering, with lovely big bulbs, all waiting for someone to hack into them.
if you process them properly, and clean it up with a bit of this and that (no clues here) then you whack it up, and its nearly as good as >>>>>> im sure of that coz ive had both.
and i know the dreams you talk about. thats for sure.been there done that.
well i hope you figure out one day, you want to get down, and off before its you on one of them google alerts ay.
im tryin to last longer and longer between subs. its not that easy.
but im getting there.
PANDORA, whered you go girl. long time no see.
catch ya both later. i forget this thread is on another forum to the one i usually look at.
good luck both of you. good luck all of us.
I too like Bobb am an every day poppy tea drinker. I usually brew my tea the night before I drink it and let it soak all night. I use anywhere from 10-15 medium to large pods (depending on if I am just using a maintenance dose or am trying to enjoy the day with a buzz). My girlfriend is also a drinker of poppy tea, with a tolerance equivalent to mine. We share the tea which is roughly around 30-40 grams of pod material. We will drain the tea 2-3 times depending on the day.
I've been addicted to opiates for about 5 years and have been maintaining my addiction with poppy tea for the past 2. I've had experience with eating the pod material too. Back when I was eating it I would eat a dose of around 15-20 grams a day. I've also experienced withdrawal many of times and in my experience the withdrawal caused by eating raw pod material is wayyyyyyyy worse then withdrawal caused by drinking the tea or ingesting of opium in any other form. The stomach pains I had while detoxing off of raw pod material was by far some of the worst withdrawal symptoms I have ever had.
The reason opium withdrawal is so bad compared to most other opiates is because in opium you have a concoction of opiate alkaloids mainly consisting of morphine, codeine, papaverine, thebaine and noscapine. IMO coming off of opium can be a more intense and longer withdrawal then coming off of >>>>>>. It usually takes me a full 2 weeks of cold turkey withdrawal before I even start feeling better when I detox off of tea. I have been close to death before from dehydration and intense withdrawl symptoms. I have detoxed off of >>>>>> and usually start feeling better after about 7 days.
If you are still struggling with getting off of Dode or are still having trouble tapering your doses you may want to think about brewing a small cup of tea with the doses you are eating. You may find after tapering off of the tea, the stomach cramps are not as intense. I have done morphine tapers off of opium, which I find is my fav choice but not cheap considering my only morphine source is illicit. I have tapered my tolerance down to nothing in a matter of about 4-5 weeks. Everybody's body chemistry is slightly different though so different things work for different people. Loperamide (Imodium) does cross certain opioid receptors in the human body and will minimize and in some cases eliminate withdrawal symptoms.
I don't know the laws in Canada but here in the US pods are pretty easy to obtain and are allot cheaper then the price you say the Dode powder is going for. I live in a fairly sized city (about 300,000 total) and pods can be obtained locally in 3 different places. Not to mention the hundreds of sources you can find on-line. If shopping on-line you must be careful though as some sites are scams or way overpriced.
The Tylenol 1-3's will help but not so much in the current state they are in. I would recommend researching CWE or cold water extraction on T1's and T3's to extract the codeine and leave behind the acetaminophen. This is done because the amount of pills you will need to take to alleviate your symptoms will be harmful for your liver because of the large amount of acetaminophen. Remove it and the codeine powder left behind is safe to eat in larger doses.
I've never done a codeine taper before cause T1's / T3's are not OTC here and are rare but since the body converts codeine into morphine anyway it should work in the same way. And since morphine is the main ingredient in Dode, codeine should work quite well. I think about 200 mg of codeine would be equal to about 30 mg of morphine. When I last tapered off of morphine I did: 1 day: 10 pills, 1 day: 9 pills, 2 days: 8 pills, 2 days: 7 pills, 1 day: 6 pills, 4 days: 5 pills, 4 days: 4 pills, 5 days: 3 pills, 5 days: 2 pills, 10 days: 1 pill. By the 10th day of taking only one pill a day I quit taking them altogether and had only slight withdrawal symptoms over the next 2 days. This taper was done after a summer of abusing morphine, >>>>>> and probably about 30-60 grams of pod material a day. It was the highest point of my addiction and I am glad to say I am half the addict I was then . Oh and the morphine tabs I used to taper were 15 mg each.
If I were to try a taper with codeine I would start with at least 100-150 mg of codeine (depending on tolerance) 1-2 times a day. Then lower doses at the same rate I lower with morphine tapers(again depending on tolerance).
Anyway I gotta run, its 4:30 AM and I gotta go brew today's batch of tea then hit the bed.
BTW Bobb I think the "nub" you are referring to is actually called the bulb.
Take care everyone and good luck pandora.
Last edited by Josh52802; 01-12-2010 at 05:00 AM.
nah the nub is that wee top bit above the bulb. the bit that dries out, then becomes the seed dispenser when it dries out.
i was talkin to a mate today bout this. im in nz and we just do the opium iv here. when you make the tea, do you get green pods, and crush em up.
or dried ones. we were wondering. me and my mate were just interested, we dont use opium any more, hes on the morphine, im on subs.
but we were curious, coz after we bled the poppies and then hit up the opium, we would chuck out the rest. hah. maybe we shouldve saved them
you guys would love it here right now, its summer, and im drivin round seeing loads of big fat bulbs, all ready for pickin. lucky for me i dont do that any more.
yeh so the nubby thing at the top, yep thats the nub.
see ya fullas
It is winter here so I am currently getting dry pods. In the summer I usually grow my own. I have tried to make tea out of fresh pods but it is better to dry them out IMO. When they are already wet and saturated with moisture it is hard to soak the alkaloids out. I will slice a fair amount of my pods at least once (some 2-4 more times). I leave a good amount alone to produce a stronger tea then the tea brewed from scored pods. Scored pods will still produce a decent tea if they are not bled dry.
I do not like smoking opiates, My fav form is eating them. Next to eating would be Snorting or IV but these routes are short lived. About half the opium I collect from scoring will go towards making tea or eating. The rest is further processed into other goodies.
I have a little bit of opium left over from last summer That is pretty dried out. The last few times I have used any I crush it with an >> and it breaks down into powder fine enough to snort. A good little >>>>>> sized line (about 1/3 of a 10th) will give me a nose itch with-in minutes of snorting. Snorting opium starts burning like a ********** about a minute after you do it but goes away quick.
I would say that tea made from pods is different from tea made from raw opium. The opium tea will have a higher morphine content and produce a more of a drowsy / nod high. The poppy tea will produce a nicer and more energetic high. I prefer the poppy tea over just raw opium tea due to the stimulant effects it gives me. Possibly because thebaine is a stimulant and more thebaine stays behind in the pod and not in the opium that oozes out.
You guys would IV raw opium liquid?? Without processing it into morphine or processing it at all?? That can be really dangerous. Raw opium contains codeine which I think causes allot of problems when injected. Not to mention All the plant material (waxes, fats, etc..) that opium also contains. I've never tried it so I guess I cannot really knock it but I would not recommend it LOL.
I have heard of kompot (polish >>>>>>) which is supposed to be an injectable form of poppy pod extract. This seems to be more like an impure form of >>>>>> then opium though. Kind of Like Tar Dope(Black Tar >>>>>>).
Opium is fairly easy to process into morphine base then converted into a clean injectable form, usually with hydrochloric acid. It takes a fair bit of opium before you can even attempt though, at least Ten grams.
Tea is still the easiest way to get my fix from poppy pods. Takes about a hour to brew and drink then about 20 mins for affects to start kicking in. If I am in WD I will start feeling better with-in a few minutes of my first drink.
Btw I was referring to the really hard part that attaches the stem to the pod. I have only ever heard it called the bulb or knob. I thought that was what Bobb was talking about in an earlier post.
So Cheeky, you are on suboxone? How does that work out for you? I've thought about trying it but it's not cheap for me. Only thing I can get free is methadone and I really hate done. Plus the free done clinic here does not allow pot smoking and does drug tests so that is not an option from me. I could get suboxone from my doctor but it would cost more then the pods I am currently maintaining with. I also still enjoy getting my buzz on periodically. Right now I am mostly just drinking enough tea daily to make myself feel normal. Mondays are usually an exception for me (I really hate them). I will drink almost twice the amount of tea then normal days on monday. Subs just make you feel normal as well as block out other opioids from working right? They offer no euphoria or high? I guess when you are in WD feeling normal is euphoria enough LOL.
Anyway I got to get heading to bed, I got work in Six hours. I am super tired and starting to feel slight WD since I did not drink much tea today (or yesterday I guess...). Plus its been almost 16 hours since my last dose.
Take care everyone, and good luck to all fellow addicts out there!!!
HEYJOSH. yeh summer here, and im driving past a ton of pods, probably at the stage you would love. but alas ive been there done that.
my first habit ever was on iv opium. and i have only smoked it once, yak, disgusting, and i can imagine the tea would be disgusting as well.
yeh subs are workin out ok for me.
since july 13, when i started on 12mg, i have tapered down to now .25mg.
getting right off is not the cake walk i was led to beleive, now they say its coz i took too long. well some people take 5 or more years, so i think 6months is ok. i needed to change a few things in my life.
yeh no high to speak of. but i feel really good. and no cravings, not one single one. and ive seein my mate hittin up morphine, and not even worried.
thats still coz i have a bit of sub as back up for now im sure.
interesting to find out more and more ay. yeh i have had to pay for my subs, right along, only methadone is free here in nz also. but it was even less expensive than my street habit when i started, and of course the dose has gone down and down, i actually have some savings now.
had a mate recently say he thought i was only doing it to save money, not get off the drugs, but over the last few months, my whole attitude has changed, and im sure if >> done a quick taper, i would be back at square one right now.
so im glad ive taken my time.
maybe one day you might do the subs as well. its worth a go ay pal.
i hated the wd off opium, intense, and horrible. mind you ive done ct off methadone, now thats a whole nother novel.
take it easy mate.
pandora, havent heard from you for a while. how you doin.
see ya josh, take care.
Still around, this post is going to be complaints lol
Yeah, I haven't been around much. It's a battle of wills to get anything done lately. This tapering down deal seems like a long sufferers way to quit. I suppose in reality the symptoms I'm having are not as bad than if I had quit cold turkey.
I took a ridiculously small amount yesterday, basically the last of it. I can't even guess how much it is. 1/4 - 1/2 gram. I don't know. All I know is I have been feeling bad for days. I have no interest in anything, no motivation to do anything, I'm tired, I am constantly in pain, I feel nauseated all the time, I hate food as it goes through me at a rollercoaster rate and it has zero flavour (although I think I understand the popsicles recommendation, the sweet, tangy flavour actually gets through to my tongue), I have cramps at random times in the day, I never laugh (except when my kid said that lucky pennies are NOT LUCKY), I can't keep my legs still when I want to sleep, I wake up from sleep all panicked, my heart is working too hard and I have this weird metallic taste in my mouth now.
The worst thing is that I haven't even stopped yet. I mean I guess I have tapered down so much that it's minimally in my system. I just feel it's so close but so, so, so far.
My boyfriend is getting there too. I feel badly for him cuz he's coming down off a huge dose into something so small. He's taking one spoon a day and it's a small spoon and god, how he suffers some nights. The pains in his legs and arms literally makes him cry. I know he's giving thought to buying more but it has to be a large amount and will cost 1K. I keep convincing him to keep on working his way through it cuz if he buys more, its just going to be back at square one and the suffering is for nothing.
We have tried so many different medications and herbal remedies too. I feel like I tried using them too early in the game so have stopped as one of 3 that I was trying made my heart pound like I was a marathon runner, even 8 hours after I took my last pills and this would be near bedtime. I haven't had that problem for 5 days since I stopped taking ALA, L-Tyrosine and L-Phenylalanine. These were all recommended by one of those herbal nutritionists and a book on what to use for drug withdrawals and L-Tyrosine is recommended by the Thomas Recipe.
Point to note for anyone quitting or planning to quit, what we have found that "helps" is a liquid bone solution 1:1 ratio of calcium/magnesium, gugg-lipide, pure red korean ginseng, Vitamin B complex (preferably liquid), a giant multi-vitamin, Immodium, anti-spasmodics and Valerian Root. Triple YAY for Valerian Root as it actually allows me almost 5 hours of sleep and that is worth its time in weight in gold. When I say the above ingredients help, I don't mean it will take away your symptoms. You will just notice them to be stronger if you don't take these things. Although Immodium and anti-spasmodics do actually make the symptoms go away.
I am going to go look up your original posts under your other name after this, provided I still have the motivation o_O I hope things are going well with you. Did you make the jump like you were talking about? I can imagine it would be really freaky to try to make the choice to do that. Knowing that the symptoms are coming and the anticipation makes it so much worse, I find. I keep monitoring my body for them. Miserable.
I was glad to see this post is still active after so many days. It's not that I forgot about it, I was miserable and was not inclined to come and complain about my aches and pains and sickness. I felt like I would just feel them that much more, talking about them, y'know? I've spent a large portion of my days in a hot bath. I feel like such a jerk cuz I've missed 3 days of work this week in a row, citing "stomach flu" but I have to stop beating myself up about it. I'm doing what's best for me and my kids. I am happy that I haven't spent any money on it since October, I think it is.
You know one thing? I am super depressed, too. Things REALLY upset me. I've had a hella bad time at work lately. I dunno what this one colleague's problem is at work but I really got picked on last week and it made my life a living hell. I was actually crying over it. Then I had some stupid money problems and I was crying over THAT. Everything seems way worse than it is. Normally I'm a strong person but I feel like I can be blown over by the slightest breeze lately. I am guessing you know how it is.
You're strong to be able to drive around and see the poppy flowers and not do the "rogue harvesting" thing. I am glad that poppies are not readily available here. I have been damn stubborn about not going back to the store and buying more from that guy.
I've been thinking about finding other forums online to post my sufferings lol. I think I will wait it out and stay here tho. Am rather loyal I suppose hehehe. I do, however, think I will make a website after all this is over. I've noticed that Google is returning a lot more hits on doda or dode. Not the 2 or 3 sites and there's even a tiny wikipedia article. I think the more and more this is becoming an issue, the more people are going to be forced to quit. This drug is tearing apart people's lives, whether its by taking it or quitting it.
Thanks for continuing to check in, cheeky. It's much appreciated.
Last edited by ddcmod; 01-27-2010 at 07:12 PM.
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