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  #1  
Old 12-20-2005, 10:00 PM
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Default Cymbalta to the rescue

I was on Paxil 40 mg for TEN (10) yes ten years and every time I tried stopping needless to say i wigged big time....what do you need?... a 5 year "taper" [xx(]well finally my new doc said "oh, we can pull you off that no problem"....with what a labotomy?? This what he did - 30 mg of cymblata and 20 mg of paxil for 7 days....then STOP THE PAXIL....then he ramped me up to 60 mg cymbalta...with zero paxil....its been two weeks and not one panic attack, brain zap, wig out ceremony....its amazing...at least for me......good luck every one[8D]

jl
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  #2  
Old 12-21-2005, 08:06 AM
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Hi! I switched from Zoloft to Cymbalta, and I was supposed to taper down, but I just quit the Zoloft with no problems. I do have to warn you however, that your body does become highly dependent on the Cymbalta, even though they say it is non-addictive.

I get forgetful sometimes, and if I forget to take it for over 24 hours, I am sick as a dog, plus I get the brain zaps, and the fuzzy headed feeling, until I remember to take on and it kicks in.

The other day I was out, and had to run somewhere before I could pick up my prescription, so I didn't have that mornings dose, well my DH ended up having to pull the car over TWICE so I could get sick on the side of the road. It was awful. So make sure you don't let yourself run out.

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~
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  #3  
Old 12-21-2005, 11:55 PM
bn7 bn7 is offline
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It has repeatedly shown that sugar pills are far more effective a treating depression than antidepressants, up to 75% more effective. For some though, sugar pills lack tell tale side effects of antidepressants and are ineffective for this reason. The patient must have side effects to believe they are taking more than mere sugar.

.."more recently some researchers have suggested that antidepressants are not specifically active against depression but merely exert a placebo effect in a receptive condition. They appear to perform better than an inert placebo because their side effects increase their suggestive power and may admit bias into the assessment procedure by enabling investigators to guess whether patients are on the active drug or the placebo. A recent meta-analysis of placebo controlled trials of prozac found that the likelihood of recovery was indeed associated with experiencing side effects . A review of seven studies which used an active substance as a placebo to mimic antidepressant side effects found that only one showed the drug to be superior."

http://www.academyanalyticarts.org/moncrieff.htm

Moreover, there is absolutely no proof that Serotonin has any link to the cause of depression.

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/per...l.pmed.0020392

Why take these drugs? Is it just the suggestive power of the side effects that make you believe they work?

PS: Hi Z.
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  #4  
Old 12-29-2005, 03:58 AM
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Aloha;

I was on Cymbalta 60mg for nearly six weeks...seemed to "do the trick". As I was also coming off an 8 yr stint on narcotic pain meds (via Suboxone) my Sub doc asked me to "kick" the Cymbalta...which I did in two stages.

The first, down to 30mg, produced a DISTINCT depressive two day period after the third day of reduced dosage. But, then I seemed to "level" off.

After one more week I stopped the Cymbalta and have NOT been the worse for the wear.

So, perhaps there was more of a placebo effect from it than a genuine medicinal process. I followed some of BN7 urls and found very interesting "opinions" suggesting what I had suspected...I never really needed the Cymbalta in the first place.

What I was left wondering though, BN7, was; What is depression. . .?? Purely attitudinal??

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  #5  
Old 12-29-2005, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by bn7

It has repeatedly shown that sugar pills are far more effective a treating depression than antidepressants, up to 75% more effective. For some though, sugar pills lack tell tale side effects of antidepressants and are ineffective for this reason. The patient must have side effects to believe they are taking more than mere sugar.

.."more recently some researchers have suggested that antidepressants are not specifically active against depression but merely exert a placebo effect in a receptive condition. They appear to perform better than an inert placebo because their side effects increase their suggestive power and may admit bias into the assessment procedure by enabling investigators to guess whether patients are on the active drug or the placebo. A recent meta-analysis of placebo controlled trials of prozac found that the likelihood of recovery was indeed associated with experiencing side effects . A review of seven studies which used an active substance as a placebo to mimic antidepressant side effects found that only one showed the drug to be superior."

http://www.academyanalyticarts.org/moncrieff.htm

Moreover, there is absolutely no proof that Serotonin has any link to the cause of depression.

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/per...l.pmed.0020392

Why take these drugs? Is it just the suggestive power of the side effects that make you believe they work?

PS: Hi Z.
Your post is flawed from the very first sentence. "It has repeatedly shown..." - where? By who? I dare you to show me something that isn't more pseudo-science by antipsychiatry zealots. "Some researchers" doesn't cut it.

The placebo effect is established as a consideration with ALL pharmaceuticals, not just psych meds. A small percentage of people do benefit. But to claim that all antidepressants are ineffective as anything other than placebo is irresponsible, misleading and without basis in fact.

Your first link is to an article written by an obscure group founded on a remark from Freud in 1927 (!) to study psychoanalysis - not neuroscience - from a COSMOLOGICAL perspective. The entire article, even the very title, is biased to the view that psychiatry is about politics, social control, and "imperialism." How are we supposed to take seriously an opinion about the treatment of debilitating, life-threatening mental illness that doesn't even acknowledge such illness exists?

The second link is an unfunded article written by two students, one of social work, the other OSTEOPATHY, one of who admits to campaigning against drugs since 2002. Real open mind, huh? At least he admits to his prejudice, even if it is buried in an article peppered with such "evidence" as "sentiments" expressed by a politician, a lot of words like "suggests" and "seems," and the people it references to support its claims have written books like "The truth about the drug companies: How they deceive us...," "Prozac backlash," and "The unhealthy relationship between the pharmaceutical companies and depression." And exactly what conclusion does it reach? That drug advertising oversimplifies neuroscience. (Gee, you think?)

The sloppily written article also includes five footnotes that are not referenced. As for your own mistake, you claim that placebo is 75% more effective, but the article cites 80%. You could at least get your disinformation straight before presenting it.

Then there's this: "...the fact that aspirin cures headaches does not prove that headaches are due to low levels of aspirin in the brain." According to your logic, then, that means headaches don't exist, and aspirin must be exerting a placebo effect.

How do you explain the millions of people whose depression has been alleviated by SSRIs without experiencing any side effects? How do you explain the placebo effect without side effects? How do you explain people who don't respond to an SSRI - or placebo - even when they believe they will? Or people who don't respond to one SSRI but do respond to another?

How do you explain depression at all? I suppose next you'll be telling us it's because we don't pray enough.

I've read some of your other posts. It's tragic that you were institutionalized and medicated against your will. But do tell - how exactly did you overcome your disorder on your own after release? If you've got all the answers, please share, instead of irresponsibly preaching to vulnerable people to quit taking meds that benefit them.
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  #6  
Old 12-30-2005, 03:25 AM
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Hi bn, what's up and hows things?

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~
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  #7  
Old 01-01-2006, 01:03 AM
bn7 bn7 is offline
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polaire,

Here you go.

An analysis of Antidepressant Medication Data Submitted to the FDA,". Irving Kirsch, University of Connecticut; Thomas J. Moore, George Washington University; Alan Scoboria and Sarah S. Nicholls, University of Connecticut. Prevention and Treatment, American Psychological Association.

http://www.alpha-stim.com/Informatio...rsNewDrugs.pdf

In response to the rest of your post, can answer the following questions:

(1) Please provide evidence that establishes the validity of "depression" or other "major mental illnesses" as "biologically-based brain diseases"?
(2) Please provide evidence for a physical diagnostic exam that can reliably distinguish individuals with these diagnoses (prior to treatment with psychiatric drugs) from individuals without these diagnoses?
(3) Please provide evidence for a baseline standard of a neurochemically-balanced "normal" individual, against which a neurochemical "imbalance" can be measured?
(4) Please provide evidence that any psychotropic drug can correct any "chemical imbalance" attributed to a psychiatric diagnosis?
(5) Please provide evidence that any psychotropic drug can reliably decrease the likelihood of violence or suicide?
(6) Please provide evidence that any psychotropic drug does not increase the likelihood of violence or suicide?

And as for my recovery, I just followed the path identified by the World Health Oganisation studies that in poorer countries where SZ's don't take meds, the recovery rate is 65-70%. This is opposed to Westernised countries where SZ's are maintained on antipsychotics and the recovery rate is extremely low. Research shows that long term use of antipsychotics damages the brain and gives the victim an increased super-sensitivity to psychosis making it impossible to recover whilst on the meds.

In short, I gave up meds and quacks!

PS: Hasn't anyone told you that 43% of statistics cannot be relied upon? 5% indeed!

Zippysgoddess,

I'm doing well. Bloody hot here though.




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  #8  
Old 01-01-2006, 08:23 AM
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Hey bn, send some of that heat this way, will you? I am sick of the snow already and what it does to my spinal problems, the cold and I no longer get along.

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~
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  #9  
Old 01-01-2006, 09:03 PM
bn7 bn7 is offline
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hawaiiansnake

Aloha;

I was on Cymbalta 60mg for nearly six weeks...seemed to "do the trick". As I was also coming off an 8 yr stint on narcotic pain meds (via Suboxone) my Sub doc asked me to "kick" the Cymbalta...which I did in two stages.

The first, down to 30mg, produced a DISTINCT depressive two day period after the third day of reduced dosage. But, then I seemed to "level" off.

After one more week I stopped the Cymbalta and have NOT been the worse for the wear.

So, perhaps there was more of a placebo effect from it than a genuine medicinal process. I followed some of BN7 urls and found very interesting "opinions" suggesting what I had suspected...I never really needed the Cymbalta in the first place.

What I was left wondering though, BN7, was; What is depression. . .?? Purely attitudinal??

Depression is real, it is a legitimate experience (in most cases a healthy response to an unhealthy world) and has nothing to do with a diseased mind or faulty brain chemistry.

Medicalising discontent is a social control mechanism that disempowers the sufferer and ensures important social change humanity is screaming out for will not occur.

Politics and psychiatry go hand in hand.

Zippysgoddess,

It was 108 Fahrenheit 2 days ago so snow sounds wonderful.

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  #10  
Old 01-02-2006, 04:14 AM
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bn, anytime you want to come visit and play in the snow, come on to the US and stop in. My son will welcome someone who will love the snow as much as he does.

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~
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  #11  
Old 01-02-2006, 06:44 AM
bn7 bn7 is offline
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zippysgoddess,

Thanks for the offer. This global warming is no good. To have a 108 degree day here is wrong.
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  #12  
Old 01-02-2006, 03:07 PM
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bn, it is not only wrong, but miserable. But hey, truth be told, you would be welcome anytime if you ever make it to the states. We would love to meet you.

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~
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  #13  
Old 01-02-2006, 05:10 PM
bn7 bn7 is offline
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zippysgoddess,

If I ever win the lottery I'll take you up on the offer. The States and Canada have some great suppliers of the macabre and a shopping spree would be fun.
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  #14  
Old 01-02-2006, 11:22 PM
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Oh yes, you are very right, and I have a friend who could show you were to find anything like that your little heart may desire. You should see the stuff he has. LOL!

We lost most of our snow though, it has been raining all weekend.

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~
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  #15  
Old 01-03-2006, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by bn7


(1) Please provide evidence that establishes the validity of "depression" or other "major mental illnesses" as "biologically-based brain diseases"?
(2) Please provide evidence for a physical diagnostic exam that can reliably distinguish individuals with these diagnoses (prior to treatment with psychiatric drugs) from individuals without these diagnoses?
(3) Please provide evidence for a baseline standard of a neurochemically-balanced "normal" individual, against which a neurochemical "imbalance" can be measured?
(4) Please provide evidence that any psychotropic drug can correct any "chemical imbalance" attributed to a psychiatric diagnosis?
(5) Please provide evidence that any psychotropic drug can reliably decrease the likelihood of violence or suicide?
(6) Please provide evidence that any psychotropic drug does not increase the likelihood of violence or suicide?

Certainly.

(1) Start with the link between the neurotransmitter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamin... and psychosis, including psychosis in schizophrenia. Then there's specifics in http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...minergic probe. And a very long time ago http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas...t;Phineas Gage demonstrated a biological basis for behaviour.
(2) "In most http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-tr...order">PTSD patients the urine secretion of cortisol is low, at the same time as the catecholamine secretion is high, and the norepinephrine/cortisol ratio is increased." That's all found in a urine test. And in imaging genetics: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q... 4 populations, and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...ng-term memory. Haplotypes are combinations of genotypes – detected through a blood DNA test.
(3) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/bv...essed subjects - giving us measurements in a control baseline. Volumes of neurotransmitters cannot be measured without analysis of the brain, which we can't do in humans, but such studies have been performed on animals.
(4) http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v2.../1395884a.html > Early Changes in Prefrontal Activity Characterize Clinical Responders to Antidepressants.
(5) Since suicide is the terminal outcome of depression, find suicide rates then compare those numbers against the number of patients who benefited from antidepressants, in theory each a prevented suicide, and you can extrapolate.
(6) Some patients experiencing suicidal ideation when they start taking antidepressants use the energizing effects of those meds to push their plans into fruition during the period between starting the drug and feeling its benefits, which takes 4-6 weeks. That does not mean drugs cause ideation.


edit - Here's a http://bipolar.researchtoday.net/cgi...stmortem study measuring levels of neuroactive steroids in schizophrenia, bipolar and controls.
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  #16  
Old 01-03-2006, 07:39 PM
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polaire,

In Sept 2003 the Support Coalition Internation staged a Hunger Strike. Challenge International Domination by Biopsychiatry.

The Hunger Strikers put 7 questions to the American Psychiatric Association, the NAMI and the Surgeon General and emanded they be answered. 6 of the questions I asked were contained in these demands.

IN 2003 THE STAKES WERE MUCH HIGHER AS THIS HUNGER STRIKE HAD THE MEDIA"S ATTENTION!

Here is the original letter of demands from the Hunger Strikers to the APA, NAMI and the Surgeon General. You will see the 6 questions I asked you.

http://www.mindfreedom.org/mindfreed...rstrike1.shtml

Here is the initial response from the APA.

http://www.mindfreedom.org/mindfreed....shtml#initial

Here is the response from the Hunger Strikers Scientific Panel.

http://www.mindfreedom.org/mindfreed...ientific_panel

Here is the second response from the APA. PLEASE NOTE PARAGRAPH 5!

"In the absence of one or more biological markers for mental disorders, these conditions are defined by a variety of concepts."

http://www.mindfreedom.org/mindfreed...html#september

And here is the final reply from the Hunger Strikers Scientific Panel to the APA.

Re: American Psychiatric Association Statement on Diagnosis and Treatment of Mental Disorders, 25 September 2003, Release 03-39.

Dear Dr. Scully:

We believe that the above-mentioned APA Statement was released in response to the questions posed last summer to the American Psychiatric Association, the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill, and the Surgeon General of the United States by the Fast for Freedom in Mental Health based in Pasadena, California.

The scientific panel convened by the hunger strikers has written the present letter to respond to this APA Statement. We have paired the contents of the 11-paragraph APA Statement to the strikers' original questions and also added our own comments about some issues the APA Statement raises.

The Fast for Freedom in Mental Health wrote on 28 July 2003:

"WE ASK THAT YOU PRODUCE scientifically-valid evidence for the following, or that you publicly admit to media, government officials and the general public that you are unable to do so:

"1. EVIDENCE THAT CLEARLY ESTABLISHES the validity of 'schizophrenia,' 'depression' or other 'major mental illnesses' as biologically-based brain diseases.

"2. EVIDENCE FOR A PHYSICAL DIAGNOSTIC EXAM -- such as a scan or test of the brain, blood, urine, genes, etc. -- that can reliably distinguish individuals with these diagnoses (prior to treatment with psychiatric drugs), from individuals without these diagnoses."

The APA Statement's fourth paragraph states:

"Research has shown that neurobiological disorders like schizophrenia reveal reproducible abnormalities of brain structure..." Without any citations, these statements cannot be supported, qualified, or rejected.

However, in the fifth, sixth, and eighth paragraphs, the APA Statement admits to the absence of "discernible pathological lesions or genetic abnormalities" in mental disorders. This admission contradicts the previous assertion of "reproducible abnormalities."

Without evidence of brain pathology no basis exists to call emotional distress, disturbing behavior, or unusual thoughts or perceptions "neurobiological disorders." This and similar terms negate the sufferer's distress as reaction, protest, or adaptation to his/her position in the personally relevant social context. A person is understood in terms of personal history and social circumstances. A neurobiological disorder is understood differently. The choice of labels is of great consequence.

Moreover, finding reliable biological markers would be only a first step toward concluding that mental disorders are essentially neurobiological. For example, blushing, an obviously physical reaction, is not biologically caused. Its effective cause is acute embarrassment. Biological processes make blushing possible but they do not cause blushing.

Even total congruence between biological processes and psychological events does not show that the former cause the latter. Psychiatric research is far from showing any reliable connections between mental disorders and biological measurements, much less revealing anything definitive about the nature of mental disorders.

Aware of this shortcoming, the APA cites migraine headache and hypertension to illustrate that the lack of biological markers (and thus of physical diagnostic tests) is not unique to mental and behavioral disorders. It is true that medicine has yet to find the biological cause for these two disorders, though it has developed a very reliable physical measurement for blood pressure.

However, in other branches of medicine such disorders are exceptions. In psychiatry theyare the norm. Psychiatry is the sole medical specialty that treats only disorders with no biological markers.

Moreover, hypertension is regarded as a symptom of physical disease because hypertension can degenerate into frank physical disease, even death. No such parallel exists in psychiatry. For example, people diagnosed with schizophrenia or major depressive disorder often are physically healthy: unless their social circumstances and neglect interfere negatively, they may live long lives and die of the same physical causes as other people.

The APA confirms in paragraph six that, in the absence of biological markers, mental disorders are defined by "a variety of concepts": "distress experienced and reported," "level of disability," "patterns of behavior," and "statistical deviation from population-based norms." Precisely. The APA should therefore explain how such sociological concepts -- which easily define conditions such as poverty, discrimination, or war -- substantiate the existence of "neurobiological disorders."

Although it acknowledges the absence of genetic abnormalities, the APA still claims that "compelling evidence exists for a strong genetic "component" for schizophrenia and other conditions. This statement might mislead people who have not read the research into thinking that physical evidence for a genetic condition has been discovered. In fact, this research only involves counting cases of schizophrenia (diagnosed according to behavioral criteria and clinical judgment) and testing the probability that such cases would occur in certain samples.

The twin and adoption studies of this nature that the APA usually cites are plagued by untenable theoretical assumptions (e.g., that identical and fraternal twins grow up in identical environments) and serious methodological problems (e.g., expanding the diagnosis of schizophrenia to include conditions no one thinks are schizophrenia). Any results that remain after accounting for these manipulations can be fully explained on non- genetic grounds (Joseph, 2003; Lewontin, Rose, and Kamin, 1984; Pam, 1995).

The Fast for Freedom in Mental Health also requested:

"3. EVIDENCE FOR A BASELINE STANDARD of a neurochemically-balanced 'normal' personality, against which a neurochemical 'imbalance' can be measured and corrected by pharmaceutical means.

These issues were not addressed in the APA Statement.

The APA Statement could have replied accurately that neuroscientists have not established any normal baseline quantity for any known neurotransmitter (no measurements even remotely parallel to blood pressure to diagnose hypertension exist), nor have they shown any chemical imbalance to correlate with mental disorders diagnosed in un- medicated individuals (Breggin, 1991; Healy, 1997; Valenstein, 1998).

The Fast for Freedom in Mental Health also requested:

"4. EVIDENCE THAT ANY PSYCHOTROPIC DRUG can correct a 'chemical imbalance' attributed to a psychiatric diagnosis, and is anything more than a non-specific alterer of brain physiology."

The APA Statement merely states what has been known for at least 50 years, that "medications clearly exert influence on specific neurotransmitters..." This response states the obvious: all mind and mood altering drugs have effects on the brain. This includes illegal mind and mood altering drugs, though no one has suggested that they correct chemical imbalances in the brain.

Given the Food and Drug Administration's impotent exercise of its mandate to protect consumers from false advertising, pharmaceutical companies recklessly advertise cartoons showing neurotransmitter "imbalances" corrected by drugs. However, in the absence of scientific proof to substantiate such claims, it is ethically and medically reprehensible for doctors to convey such messages to justify prescribing drugs, and for the APA's own journals to publish such advertisements.

And finally, the Fast for Freedom in Mental Health also requested:

"5. EVIDENCE THAT ANY PSYCHOTROPIC DRUG can reliably decrease the likelihood of violence or suicide."

Not addressed in the APA statement.

"6. EVIDENCE THAT PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS do not in fact increase the overall likelihood of violence or suicide."

Not addressed in the APA statement.

"7. FINALLY, that you reveal publicly evidence published in mainstream medical journals, but unreported in mainstream media, that links use of some psychiatric drugs to structural brain changes."

Not addressed in the APA statement.

Despite its use of terms such as "compelling evidence" and "research shows," the APA Statement provides no citations to any scientific literature. This was also the case in the first letter that Dr. Scully addressed to the scientific panel on 12 August 2003.

Associations devoted to research and treatment of genuine diseases readily provide consumers with scientific references on the pathological basis of these diseases. The APA is a 35,000-member organization, with an annual budget exceeding $38 million. With a handful of allies, it shapes mental health practice and policy in this country and has convinced taxpayers to spend billions to support its claim that psychiatrists treat "neurobiological disorders."

The APA should be able to provide a one-page list of published scientific studies to support this claim. Yet, the APA only speculates on future findings: "Mental disorders will likely be proven to represent disorders of intercellular communication; or of disrupted neural circuitry." (This sentence is yet another de facto acknowledgement that neuropathology cannot be shown in mental disorders.)

The APA uses terms like "complex," "emergent properties," and "subtle" when describing people's overwhelming mental and emotional crises. It states: "the human brain is the most complex ... object of study in the history of human science." Yet this language about complexity is completely at odds with the biological model that reduces the human mind to a machine. Since the discovery of the infectious cause of neurosyphilis nearly a century ago, this model has failed to explain the cause of a single mental disorder. Yet this model dominates the mental health system.

Aware of this utter failure to find causes, the APA claims that money spent by the public and private sector "has greatly improved our ability to treat severe, frequently disabling mental and behavioral disorders effectively." However, relevant indicators show the exact opposite.

For schizophrenia, worsened relapse rates and increased numbers of people on disability status characterize outcomes over the last 50 years (Hegarty, Baldessarini, Tohen, Waternaux, and Oepen, 1994; Whitaker, 2002). For depression, increased incidence and prevalence are reported. Indeed, the APA Statement cites that mental disorders "rank second in societal burden, behind only cardiovascular conditions" in modern societies.

Perhaps the treatment is worsening the disorder. At best, the treatment is not helping: researchers now recognize that the most popular psychiatric drugs, the SSRI antidepressants, rate only slightly better than inert placebos (Kirsch, Scoboria, and Moore, 2002; Kirsch, Moore, Scoboria, and Nicholls, 2002). In addition, negative research findings (sponsored by industry) are commonly suppressed, and adverse drug effects are massively under-reported in psychiatric journals and to the Food and Drug Administration. These dubious but tolerated practices create an enormously misleading view of the actual impact of drug treatments.

Rather than acknowledge the lack of progress despite the huge expenditure of public and private funds, the APA dismisses its critics as denying the reality of suffering and impatient with the "pace of science." A genuine science states hypotheses in ways that allow them to be proven true or false. For a century now psychiatry has put forth hypothesis after hypothesis that is not falsifiable.

Today, despite no biological causes, no discernible biological markers or abnormalities, no diagnostic tests, no accurate predictions of treatment response and outcome, the APA still continues to claim that emotional disorders are genuine neurobiological disorders ... with causes too subtle to detect at present! This is hardly an advance over earlier unfalsifiable ideas such as the Oedipal complex.

In sum, the APA's statements reflect less the "pace of science" than the pace of commerce: they blur with the pharmaceutical advertising themes saturating our media. This is because the APA is not an independent organization. One third of its operating budget comes from the drug industry. Drug companies dominate its professional meetings to advertise drugs. In addition, the drug industry funds, directs, and analyzes many drug studies (Healy, 2003), and psychiatric journals publish so-called scientific reports of these drug studies that are ghost-written by industry employees or marketing firms. Psychiatric drug experts with no significant ties to industry can hardly be found. Industry largesse binds many psychiatric practitioners to the industry (Editorial, 2002).

The hunger strikers asked the APA for the "evidence base" that justifies the biomedical model's stranglehold on the mental health system. The APA has not supplied any such evidence, which compels the scientific panel to ask one final question: on what basis does society justify the authority granted psychiatrists, as medical doctors, to force psychoactive drugs or electroconvulsive treatment upon unwilling individuals, or to incarcerate persons who may or may not have committed criminal acts? For, clearly, it is solely on the basis of trust in the claim that their professional acts and advice are founded on medical science that society grants psychiatrists such extraordinary authority.

We urge members of the public, journalists, advocates, and officials reading this exchange to ask for straightforward answers to our questions from the APA. We also ask Congress to investigate the mass deception that the "diagnosis and treatment of mental disorders," as promoted by bodies such as the APA and its powerful allies, represents in America today.
-----------------
polaire,

Given the APA's inability to cite any conclusive evidence in answering the Hunger Strikers demands I hope you realise that the evidence you have supplied is nothing more than unfounded hypothesis.

If your a researcher and you want to get paid, you do research that the psychopharmacology wants researched and you give them hypotheses they want to see. If you don't you will not get another job.

There are millions of research articles that have ended up amounting to nothing within 6 months of being announced. Your evidence falls into this category.

These brave Hunger Strikers proved the Emperor (Biopsychiatry) has no clothes.


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  #17  
Old 01-03-2006, 07:56 PM
bn7 bn7 is offline
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zippysgoddess,

Some of the taxidermy suppliers in the states are wild. I like making strange looking beasts and those plastic jaws, claws, horns, glass eyes etc make life easy and give great effect.
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  #18  
Old 01-03-2006, 10:14 PM
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bn, you believe what you want. Drugs saved my life.
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  #19  
Old 01-04-2006, 12:44 AM
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I know what you mean, bn, my ex-brother in law was a taxidermist, he had some wild stuff.

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~
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  #20  
Old 01-04-2006, 05:32 AM
bn7 bn7 is offline
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"The fields of human psychology and psychiatry are ... a mess of competing but fundamentally incompatible theories ... Academic psychiatry has all but lost contact with the population it is supposed to serve ... Criticism is, if not actiely discouraged, then politely but very firmly ignored."
N. McLaren, MD, Australian psychiatrist , 1999



"What's happening in the training of psychiatrists and in the quality of a psychiatrist is that they have become drug pushers. They have ... forgotten how to sit down and talk to patients as to what their problems are."
- Walter Afield, psychiatrist, 1994



"... in 40 years, 'biological psychiatry' has yet to validate a single psychiatric condition/diagnosis as an abnormality/disease, or as anything 'neurological', 'biological', 'chemically imbalanced', or 'genetic'."
Dr. Fred A. Baughman Jr., Pediatric Neurologist
"Malpractice and Violation of Informed Consent"



"Everyone is neurotic. I have no trouble giving out diagnoses. In my office I only see abnormal people. Out of my office, I see only normal people. It's up to me. It's just a joke. This is what I mean by this fraud, this arrogant fraud ... To make some kind of pretension that this is a scientific statement is ... damaging to the culture."
- Ron Leifer, psychiatrist, quoted in
Beverly Eakman, Cloning of the American Mind, 1997



"... modern psychiatry has yet to convincingly prove the genetic/biological cause of any single mental illness ... Patients [have] been diagnosed with 'chemical imbalances' despite the fact that no test exists to support such a claim, and ... there is no real conception of what a correct chemical balance would look like."
- David Kaiser, psychiatrist
"Commentary Against Biological Psychiatry"
Psychiatric Times, December 1996



"We do not have proof either of the cause of the physiology for any psychiatric diagnosis ... In the absence of any verifiable diseases, in recent decades, psychopharmacology has not hesitated to construct 'disease models' for psychiatric diagnoses."
- Dr. Joseph Glenmullen
Clinical Instructor in Psychiatry
Harvard Medical School, 2000



"Hyperactivity is not a disease. It's a hoax perpetrated by doctors who have no idea what's really wrong with these children."
- Dr. Sydney Walker III, psychiatrist
The Hyperactivity Hoax



"Freud was wrong in almost every important respect."
- Frank Sulloway, Professor of Psychology, quoted in
John Horgan, The Undiscovered Mind



"What do you do when you don't know what to do? No wonder there are more suicides among psychiatrists than in any other profession."
Psychiatrist R. D. Laing
Wisdom, Madness, and Folly, p. 126



"Over the years it [the National Committee for Mental Hygiene] has championed for the promotion of 'mental health' despite the fact that nobody knows what it is or how to do it."
E. Fuller Torrey, psychiatrist
Nowhere to Go, New York: Harper and Row, 1988



"The basic question with which psychiatrists and particularly those interested in mental hygiene start is -- What are the causes of mental and nervous disease? This question has been repeatedly raised during the twenty-two years of organized mental hygiene until it has almost become a ritual and like a ritual has led to nothing except repetition -- not even a start."
Frankwood E. Williams, Director,
National Committee for Mental Hygiene,
"Is there a Mental Hygiene",
Psychoanalytic Quarterly, 1932, p. 113-20



"Many psychiatrists have had, at least to some degree, the unsettling and bewildering feeling that what they have been doing has been largely worthless and that the premises on which they have based their professional lives were partly fraudulent"
E. Fuller Torrey, M.D., psychiatrist
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  #21  
Old 01-04-2006, 08:09 AM
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Hey bn, those are great!

verwon@gmail.com

My information is not guaranteed correct. I do not get them right all the time, but I do enjoy the hunt~
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