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20-16mg sub for 5 days!!!! What to do from here robert
  1. #1
    mindy99 is offline Member
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    Default 20-16mg sub for 5 days!!!! What to do from here robert

    Hello my name is Mindy. I have been on the computer for the last 5 days on support boards looking for answers. I wish i would have came here first.

    I have read a lot about what you "should" do when you start sub but, unfortunatley, i didnt get to start that way.

    My sub dr is, well, dont want to go there. Basically, he wants me on 24mg a day of sub my first week, then 16mg of sub my second week and im afraid to hear what i MUST do on the third week to get better.

    Im not doing well at all. This is horrible.

    Basic info. Used opiates for years ranging from 2-10 hydro pills a day. For the last 5 months however i have been taking 7- 8 roxis a day which is 210-240 habit. I have taken 300mg many times, and i handled them just fine.

    Knew i had to do something. Got a sub dr. and here i am.

    He did prescribe subutex for the first day so i wouldnt get sick from the roxis. Well, i messed up and ended up taking 3.5 roxis the first day. Long story, i wasnt suppose to start my sub program that day, but, thats what happened.

    Woke up the next morning and felt GREAT. I mean, after waking up in WD every morning for quite awhile, feeling that good was just amazing. So, i think i took 2mg when i got up.

    The second day, i just kept taking tiny doses trying to feel right. Couldnt tell if i had too little or too much. Probably got up to 20mg that day.

    1st day 16mg subutex and 100mg of oxy
    2nd day about 20mg of sub
    3rd day i used 16mg of sub

    4th day i ended up using 16 mg of sub after seeing my dr. and getting no advice except to follow his directions. He didnt want to hear a word out of my mouth.

    Anyway, i got up today and took my 8mg (never did that once in the morning) and i was kinda out of it. Then i felt better, then i slept for 2 hours which is VERY weird. Then i started crying for no reason. Just miserable, super emotional. So, i thought well, he told me to take 4mg up to two times during the day. So i took 4mg and i felt a lot better. Then i was wondering if he was right and i was not taking enough. Maybe 16 wasnt enough?? Something is wrong, really wrong. The crying episodes happened the day before too.

    I have had absolutely no desire to go anywhere, see anyone or do anything.

    Have a totally messed myself up??? I feel like i should just stop taking sub, wait for WD to set in and then start to use sub the right way or even take a roxi!!!! I dont want to make things worse.

    Im feeling kinda sick right now, diarrhea and kinda fluish. Its time for my next 8mg dose. Im going to take 4mg which will total 16mg for my 5th day.

    Any advise at this point?? PLEASE HELP me design a plan to make me better.

    I cant work even work because i am so depressed. I guess thats it i am just so sad and i take wellbutrin and zoloft.

    Mindy

  2. #2
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Default Mindy

    My goodness! What a mess! So if I understand you correctly you've taken 16mg today. Tell me if I'm wrong.

    To be honest with you I don't think I've ever heard of anything more messed up with an induction in my life than this. I can't even imagine taking 100mg of oxy along with 16mg of subutex the first day and following up with what you've done. I wouldn't even begin to know how to pull you out of what you've done and continue the process from where you are. How many mg of roxies do you have left? Talk to me.

    I'm going to get you out of this mess but I'm going to have you start completely over again doing this per my instructions. Tell me how much roxicodone you have left please. I know how to turn you around and make you well, but you're going to have to go along with me if you want my help. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    mindy99 is offline Member
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    OMG, THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Finally, i cannot thank you enough.

    I read so many of your posts that i just knew i had to speak with you. I will be there for you 100% of will always follow directions and quickly reply to your responses.

    Now, basically, we can say i took 16mg a day for 4 days. The first day, well, it was a mess with the roxi and subutex.

    I have 60 30mg roxis left and a script for 90 percocets which i have not filled from my last pain dr appointment. Wanted to keep my usual appointment in case the sub wouldnt work for me. I do have chronic pain.

    I bought my sub from a sub dr. so insurance was not involved.

    I have taken nothing today. So, we have a fresh start. Today will be day 6.

    So, whats the next step?

    Again, thank you so much for your time and effort.

    Mindy

  4. #4
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindy99 View Post
    OMG, THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Finally, i cannot thank you enough.

    I read so many of your posts that i just knew i had to speak with you. I will be there for you 100% of will always follow directions and quickly reply to your responses.

    Now, basically, we can say i took 16mg a day for 4 days. The first day, well, it was a mess with the roxi and subutex.

    I have 60 30mg roxis left and a script for 90 percocets which i have not filled from my last pain dr appointment. Wanted to keep my usual appointment in case the sub wouldnt work for me. I do have chronic pain.

    I bought my sub from a sub dr. so insurance was not involved.

    I have taken nothing today. So, we have a fresh start. Today will be day 6.

    So, whats the next step?

    Again, thank you so much for your time and effort.

    Mindy






    Mindy .. I can hardly believe you didn't get sick that first day. If we do this together you have to promise me you'll NOT take any roxies while taking suboxone with me. I mean that. It could easily make you stop breathing and I refuse to have any part of that. You've got to promise or I can't participate.

    I had thought last night about suggesting you just stop the subs, take roxies for a few days, then completely stop again until you are in severe w/d and then re-induct you properly. That's going to take several days. But after reconsidering I think you should just start dropping your dose right now. You're likely at close to twice the amount of suboxone as you need I would bet. I think you should reduce to 12mg per day immediately taken in two 6mg doses per day and try that for a few days. Take the subs at the same time each day when you get up and during the early evening.

    The suboxone will work if you go along with me, you don't have to worry about that. I just have to know you're not taking ANY pills while we're doing the suboxone thing. It doesn't make sense.

    If you're ready then start at the 12 mg dose today ... 6mg now and 6mg late in the day. NO taking it throughout the day. That is addictive behavior and unnecessary with suboxone. It has to stop as you want to eliminate taking pills throughout the day from your life. It's all psychological anyway. Suboxone shouldn't be taken like that. Two doses per day is all you need. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    mindy99 is offline Member
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    Default ok

    I just took 4mg of sub. Just couldnt take the depression anymore. Seriously, is the depression part of this whole thing???? It is just killing me like i just cant stand it anymore. Its so hard to stay on this program.

    So i just read your post and i will put 2 more mg under my tongue so it will equal 6mg.

    Dont worry i will NOT take any narcotics. Believe me, this is day 5 without any. Its not getting any easier, i will tell you that. I want one so bad. But, knowing it will either make me sick, or do nothing, is enough reason to not take one. Whats the point??

    Does the sub really take away that desire to take a pill??? This is taking huge willpower. Thank god i dont feel sick or i know i would not have made it this far.

    It just has to get easier, because i want to cry right now. This sucks.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindy99 View Post
    I just took 4mg of sub. Just couldnt take the depression anymore. Seriously, is the depression part of this whole thing???? It is just killing me like i just cant stand it anymore. Its so hard to stay on this program.

    So i just read your post and i will put 2 more mg under my tongue so it will equal 6mg.

    Dont worry i will NOT take any narcotics. Believe me, this is day 5 without any. Its not getting any easier, i will tell you that. I want one so bad. But, knowing it will either make me sick, or do nothing, is enough reason to not take one. Whats the point??

    Does the sub really take away that desire to take a pill??? This is taking huge willpower. Thank god i dont feel sick or i know i would not have made it this far.

    It just has to get easier, because i want to cry right now. This sucks.




    If the induction had been done properly none of this would be happening. You would feel great. This is why I almost said to stop and start again early next week. But we can have you straightened out by then anyway.

    I just hate that you've done all this the way it's gone down. Now you'll have to pay the price for a couple days to get back on track. Your body has to become acclimated to doing this properly now. It will just take a little time to adjust to the new dose. We will drop it again to 8mg as soon as you're symptoms permit. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    mindy99 is offline Member
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    Default Crying

    The 4mg is melting right now and im crying away. This just sucks. I will take the other 2mg, but, i am seriously stuggling.

    And yes, i am in therapy two times a week.

    Im sobbing away.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Just try to relax! It's not the end of the world. I'll get you through this but no matter which route you take it's going to require a couple days to get you stabilized at a decent dose. Just give this a chance and a little time, be positive. No need to cry over this ... you're starting right now to change it for the better. Be happy. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    mindy99 is offline Member
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    i dont think this is gonna work.............. i have lost a whole week of work. i just think i should quit like you said.......

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    mindy99 is offline Member
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    Default ok

    Took the other 2 and im finally calming down.

    Why did the first day mess me up and matter so much??

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    mindy99 is offline Member
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    Default rehab

    Should i try to check myself in somewhere? I live in Miami so there are lots of places.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Because of all the drugs you took! Buprenorphine is a VERY strong drug. Just a little piece goes a long ways. You took 16mg plus 100mg of oxy. That was just a bad mistake. Then add a 20mg day and the way it's gone down since. You've got too much drug in your system in my opinion. We will get you stabilized over the next two days but at a lower effective dose. And you'll end up feeling much better. Just trust me is all I can say. Just don't relapse on me. I wish you would get rid of the roxies entirely actually. It's bad news even having them there within your reach. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    mindy99 is offline Member
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    Default tolerance

    do you think my tolerance has gone down at all??

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    Default ok

    ok, dont worry i wont relapse. What if i just waited till the WD sets in?? I wasnt crying till i took the 4mg of sub.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindy99 View Post
    Should i try to check myself in somewhere? I live in Miami so there are lots of places.



    I don't see that it's necessary at this point. I say give this a couple days. But at any time if you feel that your safety is in question you should go seek professional care. No way I would tell you to not do that. That one is your call Mindy. Try to take a deep breath and relax!

    Don't worry about your tolerance to the oxy. Why does that matter unless you're going to use them. Is that what you're going to do right after taking the 6mg? I hope not. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindy99 View Post
    ok, dont worry i wont relapse. What if i just waited till the WD sets in?? I wasnt crying till i took the 4mg of sub.


    Let me explain. Suboxone (buprenorphine) has a very long half life ... it stays in your system a long time. That's why it's good for detoxing from opiates. That's subject for another thread. But if you just stop cold right now and wait for w/d to set in so we can re-induct you it will be at LEAST a couple days before you can take anything. It could be three days. You'll be miserable doing that, I would not suggest it.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    mindy99 is offline Member
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    Default roxi

    So, i have no choices basically.

    I dont want to be a pain in your ass. I just feel like ass now.

    Damn.

    It just seems like the sooner i stop this sub, the sooner i will get out of this hell, at this dosage.

    Or at least get high like you were thinking.

    I just have to get back to work. And im an artist so, my creativity has been below zero this whole week.

    Again, cant thank you enough.

    The worst move i could do would be to stay on the 16mg. Not that i felt great on that either.

    I just took some extra zoloft. Dr. wanted to raise me on that anyway.

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    Default ok

    going to jamba juice to get some nutrition.

    dont worry i wont take any opiates without telling you first. PROMISE.

    I do have a script for effexor. Dr. wanted me to switch to that. Maybe it would be a good time. Its just the depression that kicking my ass. I dont feel too well either, but, thats ok. Unless i get a fever. Then i know i need a little sub. It takes away my fever.

    Hope you are thinking to yourself, "why did i ever answer this girl". As soon as i am stable, i will be ok, like you said.

    xoxo

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    You'll feel better I almost guarantee once we get you tapered down to about 8mg, maybe even a little less. I think you're reacting adversely to the naloxone too that is in the suboxone. Subutex doesn't have naloxone. I always ask people to try to get your dr to RX subutex instead of suboxone. It's so much easier on you. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    mindy99 is offline Member
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    Default subutex

    My dr. is an ass.

    What could i say to him to get him to switch me???

    I have to agree with you. I didnt feel anything like this on the subutex. I felt really well. I think i took it part of day two.

    Mindy

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    Default Yes!!!!!!

    I have just been reading about how some people are super sensitive to the naloxone.

    Believe me, i have never shot up!!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus that orange stuff hurts my mouthl.

    OMG, i have to switch. Any advice to how to get him to switch me????

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindy99 View Post
    I have just been reading about how some people are super sensitive to the naloxone.

    Believe me, i have never shot up!!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus that orange stuff hurts my mouthl.

    OMG, i have to switch. Any advice to how to get him to switch me????



    Tell him the naloxone makes you sick, that there is a difference in the two. Drs say that I'm crazy sometimes about this but I know better. I've seen too many people do better with subutex. I used it too. Drs don't want to risk patients abusing it so they automatically RX suboxone. I think it's wrong to give me medication like naloxone to keep me from shooting it when I don't even do that. Just throw a little fit, but not to the point of having him run you off. Do the best you can. Good luck and God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    Default thank u

    Robert, just wanted to say thank u before I went to sleep. I'm so tired everyday and night. Not feeling real well right now either so I can't wait to go to sleep.

    Have a wonderful evening. Will post in the AM.

    Xoxo

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    Default 6mg

    Robert, Happy Easter or Passover to you. Im jewish so its matzah for me.

    Well i am at 6mg today. Feeling kinda hot, still sad, headache, and have not desire to work. I have printing as much material as i can to bring to my dr. to try and get the subutex.

    I asked this question to the board, but, i have cravings BIG TIME. Is this normal? Did i ask u this already, if i did im sorry.

    Plus, should i be happy, or at least have some sort of desire to do anything??

    I remember on day two, after the subutex and roxi, i woke up and felt so amazing!!!

    I started a load of laundry, ran to Michaels to get some stuff for work, and was just like YES, im free. And then everything has gone downhill rapidly.

    I am very worried about my business, which is just taking off. I will be in Italy this month!! Just writing that makes me cry.

    ttyl

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    We will have to do this by trial and error considering the way you started. I still think the subutex would be SO much better for you based on your symptoms. I think you should probably take 2mg more this morning. See if that helps you.

    I'm sorry there is not a standardized way of pulling you out of this but you began this SO wrong, I'm trying to take each day and react to what you're experiencing. Take 2mg more, then give it a while.

    I'm about to head to church so I'll be gone for a while. But I will check back on you when I return. We are going to HAVE to play this by ear for a couple days. I PROMISE that I can turn this around for you, it will just take a few days possibly to get you back on track. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    mindy99 is offline Member
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    Default Happy Easter to you

    Ok, i did what you said and it did make me feel better. Have the headache from hell and still unmotivated and anti-social.

    Thanks for sticking with me. Will follow your instructions. Took the 6 then took another two, so im at 8. maybe i can just take 4mg at bedtime?? Keep it at 12.

    I pray that my dr will switch my meds. I agree with you, has to be the suboxone. Loved the subutex.

    xoxo

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    mindy99 is offline Member
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    So, I'm having a hard night. Feels like WD. I have a low grade fever, headache and slight sore throat. Almost felt a sneeze coming on. Didn't make it to 12 today. Tried but I felt so bad I took a little extra. I have to get those plastic things to put my pills in for each day. Feel like my body is sooooo messed up my leg just jerked too. Ttyl

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