[Typical]

I started suboxone treatment yesterday, PRIOR to reading on this forum. I previously was on 75mc of Fentanyl patches /48 hours and 3 7.5 hydrocodone for breakthrough pain for 4 years.

I wanted off the patch and doc said this was the way to go. So here I am.

Starting dosage was 8mg every 8 hours. I actually took that yesterday and have cut that by half today and am doing fine.

The thing is I want off this ASAP and within one month, two max.

BUT, personally I do not know if I can tolerate the WDs again. It was so much more intense than I could have ever imagined. My legs, OMG my legs. I could not sit or lay down and paced my own home for almost 19 hours prior to going to the doc's office and beginning suboxone. I seriously doubt I could relive that horror.

So, I am seeking a cut down dose that isn't too painful or at least less painful that what I just experienced.

Thank you for being here and having so much information available. I was naive. If I would have known what getting off of the pain meds would have been like, I would have never put on the first patch...NEVER! I still have a chronic back pain issue, but I'll live with that before ever using another long-acting prescription pain med again.

Thanks again,
Typical

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by Typical

I started suboxone treatment yesterday, PRIOR to reading on this forum. I previously was on 75mc of Fentanyl patches /48 hours and 3 7.5 hydrocodone for breakthrough pain for 4 years.

I wanted off the patch and doc said this was the way to go. So here I am.

Starting dosage was 8mg every 8 hours. I actually took that yesterday and have cut that by half today and am doing fine.

The thing is I want off this ASAP and within one month, two max.

BUT, personally I do not know if I can tolerate the WDs again. It was so much more intense than I could have ever imagined. My legs, OMG my legs. I could not sit or lay down and paced my own home for almost 19 hours prior to going to the doc's office and beginning suboxone. I seriously doubt I could relive that horror.

So, I am seeking a cut down dose that isn't too painful or at least less painful that what I just experienced.

Thank you for being here and having so much information available. I was naive. If I would have known what getting off of the pain meds would have been like, I would have never put on the first patch...NEVER! I still have a chronic back pain issue, but I'll live with that before ever using another long-acting prescription pain med again.

Thanks again,
Typical

You will be better able to accurately determine your true pain level once you detox. Then if you require pain medication you will only have to take what you need for pain rather than what you need to feed the addiction. Addiction is very painful. It lies to us making us think we hurt more than we really do.

I took pain meds for MANY injuries, RA, Raynaud's Phenomenon, deg disc disease and other problems for decades. Was taking 25-30 30mg Roxies a day and was in a wheelchair at one point. I played racquetball last week. So this can be beat. I used Subutex (same as Suboxone basically) for about a month and stopped it successfully and was totally detoxed without W/Ds from pain meds too. I will explain how I did the Subutex. The Suboxone will work the same way.

I was on 8mg a day taking 4mg twice a day. I did that for about three weeks, maybe just a little longer to get past my opiate W/Ds. I knew they would be serious as I have detoxed before without Subutex. Once I knew the W/Ds were over I started cutting the dose back by 1-2mg every couple days until I got it down to 4mg. At this point I would take 2mg in AM and then skip the evening dose. Then I would take the whole 4mg the next day. Then I would skip a day totally, then do 4mg again the next. Then I would skip a day and then take only 2mg the next day. Once I hit 2mg I skipped one day, then 2mg, then skipped two days, then 2mg, then three days and then 1mg. After I took 1mg for a day, I stopped completely. I felt a little queezy one day, but that was it. Had no W/Ds of any kind after that. I am convinced this will work for anyone as many opiates as I was taking and had no W/Ds whatsoever.

Once you get through the W/Ds, you should evaluate your pain level at that time. I did and I decided that I just didn't want anymore pain meds. I would rather deal with a little pain. It's amazing how much less pain I am in after detox than before while addicted. Hopefully you will find you are in the same boat. But if not, at least you will know it is real pain and not the addiction playing tricks on you. Hope this helps. Good luck and let us know how you are doing.

[Typical]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

You will be better able to accurately determine your true pain level once you detox. Then if you require pain medication you will only have to take what you need for pain rather than what you need to feed the addiction. Addiction is very painful. It lies to us making us think we hurt more than we really do.

I took pain meds for MANY injuries, RA, Raynaud's Phenomenon, deg disc disease and other problems for decades. Was taking 25-30 30mg Roxies a day and was in a wheelchair at one point. I played racquetball last week. So this can be beat. I used Subutex (same as Suboxone basically) for about a month and stopped it successfully and was totally detoxed without W/Ds from pain meds too. I will explain how I did the Subutex. The Suboxone will work the same way.

I was on 8mg a day taking 4mg twice a day. I did that for about three weeks, maybe just a little longer to get past my opiate W/Ds. I knew they would be serious as I have detoxed before without Subutex. Once I knew the W/Ds were over I started cutting the dose back by 1-2mg every couple days until I got it down to 4mg. At this point I would take 2mg in AM and then skip the evening dose. Then I would take the whole 4mg the next day. Then I would skip a day totally, then do 4mg again the next. Then I would skip a day and then take only 2mg the next day. Once I hit 2mg I skipped one day, then 2mg, then skipped two days, then 2mg, then three days and then 1mg. After I took 1mg for a day, I stopped completely. I felt a little queezy one day, but that was it. Had no W/Ds of any kind after that. I am convinced this will work for anyone as many opiates as I was taking and had no W/Ds whatsoever.

Once you get through the W/Ds, you should evaluate your pain level at that time. I did and I decided that I just didn't want anymore pain meds. I would rather deal with a little pain. It's amazing how much less pain I am in after detox than before while addicted. Hopefully you will find you are in the same boat. But if not, at least you will know it is real pain and not the addiction playing tricks on you. Hope this helps. Good luck and let us know how you are doing.

So basically, what you are telling me is that even though I "feel" like I am not having withdrawals from the Fentanyl, I actually still am. Ok. Understood.
One note, prior to switching to Suboxone, I had weened myself off the Hydro completely and was only on the patch when the Sub therapy began.

I decreased my Sub dosage again today in a.m. I took only 4mg this morning rather than the 8mg. Feeling ok. Will see how that goes. Sounds like I may be able to get by with only taking 2mg this evening. Also sounds like I should hang out at this level till actual opiate WDs are done for a week or so, then start cutting back.

Robert, I think I understand your schedule and will print your reply out.

I do have pain. But, at this point, I will live with it. I had such a full active life. I WAS a SCUBA INSTRUCTOR, I WAS an avid motorcycle rider...I WAS, I WAS, I WAS.....I am tired of saying that. I want it back. I will get through the physical pain, but can no longer tolerate the opiate pain....thank you. My husband has been EXTREMELY supportive thank the heavens. Both of us were just so naive...so, so naive. I think I will never again let the statement, "...we'll deal with that issue later," from a doctor pass again.

T.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by Typical

So basically, what you are telling me is that even though I "feel" like I am not having withdrawals from the Fentanyl, I actually still am. Ok. Understood.
One note, prior to switching to Suboxone, I had weened myself off the Hydro completely and was only on the patch when the Sub therapy began.

I decreased my Sub dosage again today in a.m. I took only 4mg this morning rather than the 8mg. Feeling ok. Will see how that goes. Sounds like I may be able to get by with only taking 2mg this evening. Also sounds like I should hang out at this level till actual opiate WDs are done for a week or so, then start cutting back.

Robert, I think I understand your schedule and will print your reply out.

I do have pain. But, at this point, I will live with it. I had such a full active life. I WAS a SCUBA INSTRUCTOR, I WAS an avid motorcycle rider...I WAS, I WAS, I WAS.....I am tired of saying that. I want it back. I will get through the physical pain, but can no longer tolerate the opiate pain....thank you. My husband has been EXTREMELY supportive thank the heavens. Both of us were just so naive...so, so naive. I think I will never again let the statement, "...we'll deal with that issue later," from a doctor pass again.

T.

Yes, you are in W/Ds even though you don't feel it. That is the Suboxone working. I also found it quite easy to drop from 8mg to 4mg like you describe. It wasn't until I started trying to get it down to 1-2mg that it was a little tougher. Don't get me wrong, it is still very doable. Not that big of a deal if you start out doing this the right way like you are. I don't believe you will have any problems. And you will end up doing this detox and having no W/Ds of any kind doing it the way you are doing it.

I would not rush trying to get off the suboxone until we know that the W/Ds have subsided and are gone. Don't even risk it, it isn't worth it. I would give it no less than 21/2 weeks, most likely 3 weeks like I wrote. That certainly worked for me anyway. And I had no difficulty stopping the Sub at that time. Remember that even though you feel well, the W/Ds won't be completely over as soon as you think. There is no rush. As addicts we like to have everything instantly. LOL Just give it a little time so you are able to do this easily. An extra week will not hurt, and it will make this easier for you.

I know what you mean about diving and bikes. I still like to dive too. Don't have a bike anymore, but I may have to do something about that. Keep posting and stay in touch. We are here for support as you need it. I would like to know how things are going for you. Good luck and God bless.

[Typical]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Yes, you are in W/Ds even though you don't feel it. That is the Suboxone working. I also found it quite easy to drop from 8mg to 4mg like you describe. It wasn't until I started trying to get it down to 1-2mg that it was a little tougher. Don't get me wrong, it is still very doable. Not that big of a deal if you start out doing this the right way like you are. I don't believe you will have any problems. And you will end up doing this detox and having no W/Ds of any kind doing it the way you are doing it.

I would not rush trying to get off the suboxone until we know that the W/Ds have subsided and are gone. Don't even risk it, it isn't worth it. I would give it no less than 21/2 weeks, most likely 3 weeks like I wrote. That certainly worked for me anyway. And I had no difficulty stopping the Sub at that time. Remember that even though you feel well, the W/Ds won't be completely over as soon as you think. There is no rush. As addicts we like to have everything instantly. LOL Just give it a little time so you are able to do this easily. An extra week will not hurt, and it will make this easier for you.

I know what you mean about diving and bikes. I still like to dive too. Don't have a bike anymore, but I may have to do something about that. Keep posting and stay in touch. We are here for support as you need it. I would like to know how things are going for you. Good luck and God bless.

Thank you for your support. I look FORWARD to doing those things again. Don't want to take up valuable space here...but my husband and I used to take 2 weeks every June and ride Colorado & Wyoming and sometimes Utah. It WAS wonderful. I look forward to enjoying those things again!!!!

T.

[Robert_325]

I will be going to Panama on a missionary trip in July. Will be going with my pastor to visit the Kuni Indians in the San Blas Islands off the coast of Panama. But before I return home I will definitely take in some diving. There is beautiful water there. I am really looking forward to relaxing in the deep water. I so enjoy getting down at 75-100' where it is so quiet and peaceful. There are no pictures that capture the beauty and serenity of that place. I love it. My pastor is one of my old high school buddies and he dives as well. So I will have someone to enjoy it with. Plus, even though I dive, I prefer to have someone with me at those depths. You understand I know.

[Typical]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

I will be going to Panama on a missionary trip in July. Will be going with my pastor to visit the Kuni Indians in the San Blas Islands off the coast of Panama. But before I return home I will definitely take in some diving. There is beautiful water there. I am really looking forward to relaxing in the deep water. I so enjoy getting down at 75-100' where it is so quiet and peaceful. There are no pictures that capture the beauty and serenity of that place. I love it. My pastor is one of my old high school buddies and he dives as well. So I will have someone to enjoy it with. Plus, even though I dive, I prefer to have someone with me at those depths. You understand I know.

Why YES...Absolutely!!! You should have someone with you!!!!! A good dive buddy is hard to find!!! Glad you do. Love blue water diving!!! Have taken many a trip to Central and South America. I hope you have an absolutely wonderful time there in ministry and liesure.

[Typical]

OK,
4th day...
I am trying to find what my MINIMAL dose of Sub is to keep wd's at bay. Yesterday went quite well at 6mg...today I will try 4mgs.

So far:
Day 1: 24 mgs
Day 2: 16 Mgs
Day 3: 6 Mgs
Day 4: Will try 4mgs...we'll see...won't put anything at risk.

Truding along

Robert, if I read one of your previous posts correctly, I think it was you, that you contend that exercise during this transition helps to rehabilitate and re-establish natural endorphine production? Do you think that is what exercise does for one coming off/detoxing?

T.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by Typical

OK,
4th day...
I am trying to find what my MINIMAL dose of Sub is to keep wd's at bay. Yesterday went quite well at 6mg...today I will try 4mgs.

So far:
Day 1: 24 mgs
Day 2: 16 Mgs
Day 3: 6 Mgs
Day 4: Will try 4mgs...we'll see...won't put anything at risk.

Truding along

Robert, if I read one of your previous posts correctly, I think it was you, that you contend that exercise during this transition helps to rehabilitate and re-establish natural endorphine production? Do you think that is what exercise does for one coming off/detoxing?

T.

I see nothing wrong with finding your minimal dose of Suboxone while still keeping W/Ds under control. Because I took three weeks to complete my detox does not mean that it would necessarily have to take you that long. Just realize that even if you were taking a minimal amount of hydro but were addicted you not done with detox yet. Take your time. I would not advise stopping prior to two weeks unless you just want to cold turkey it and discard the Suboxone entirely. That is certainly an option for those wanting to get it over with and deal with the detox for a week or two. Lots of people do that. It is hard but you get it over with quickly. It may turn out that you are the exception and after a week you can stop the Suboxone cold and be fine. I can not tell you that wouldn't work for you. I certainly understand people who choose the route of cold turkey detox. It just puts us through discomfort and illness. That is the reason for taking the Suboxone to not have to suffer through the detox. I am glad to see you dropping from that 24mg and even the 16mg dose. That is entirely too much in my opinion. I was taking 40 Lorcets a day when I started Subutex and I only needed 8mg a day to control my W/D symptoms. I think drs get carried away sometimes with what they prescribe.

Regarding exercise, yes, I advise exercise as do most who understand the endorphine production process. We don't have to run five miles, or spend two hours on weight training, just a good walk or something to get our heart rates up will definitely help to create natural endorphines which aid us in feeling better. It will not be a boost like taking an amphetamine or anything like that. But it will help to give us some natural energy in addition to helping with the restless legs and general agitation of detoxing. Good luck. You are getting better day by day whatever route you choose to pursue.

[Typical]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

I see nothing wrong with finding your minimal dose of Suboxone while still keeping W/Ds under control. Because I took three weeks to complete my detox does not mean that it would necessarily have to take you that long. Just realize that even if you were taking a minimal amount of hydro but were addicted you not done with detox yet. Take your time. I would not advise stopping prior to two weeks unless you just want to cold turkey it and discard the Suboxone entirely. That is certainly an option for those wanting to get it over with and deal with the detox for a week or two. Lots of people do that. It is hard but you get it over with quickly. It may turn out that you are the exception and after a week you can stop the Suboxone cold and be fine. I can not tell you that wouldn't work for you. I certainly understand people who choose the route of cold turkey detox. It just puts us through discomfort and illness. That is the reason for taking the Suboxone to not have to suffer through the detox. I am glad to see you dropping from that 24mg and even the 16mg dose. That is entirely too much in my opinion. I was taking 40 Lorcets a day when I started Subutex and I only needed 8mg a day to control my W/D symptoms. I think drs get carried away sometimes with what they prescribe.

Regarding exercise, yes, I advise exercise as do most who understand the endorphine production process. We don't have to run five miles, or spend two hours on weight training, just a good walk or something to get our heart rates up will definitely help to create natural endorphines which aid us in feeling better. It will not be a boost like taking an amphetamine or anything like that. But it will help to give us some natural energy in addition to helping with the restless legs and general agitation of detoxing. Good luck. You are getting better day by day whatever route you choose to pursue.

I don't think I will try stopping within a week's time. I just don't want to take too much. So far, the 2mg this morning is holding fine & anticipate taking 2mg in p.m.; however, I do not think that I will cut back tomorrow. Will take a stabilization day and see how I feel. I think I felt a little slight agitation but not bad a few hours ago, but ok now. I just don't want to build up a huge serum level. And I guess my thinking is that I don't want to take more than is absolutely necessary. I certainly WILL NOT choose the cold turkey route. I can't. I thought I was going mad. I handled all of the symptoms except for one...the restless leg. I literally made me want to beat my legs with a bat. It was insane. Never felt anything like it and don't want it again. Not in that big of a hurry.

Yes, agreed, the quantity first prescribed was far too much. It is my understanding, and I may be wrong, that there is somewhat of a ceiling effect with this drug at a certain level anyway.

Going for a walk late this afternoon and let a few endorphines TRY to raise their little heads. They have really left out in the cold these last few years! We'll see if they have any muscle left!!!!


T.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by Typical

I don't think I will try stopping within a week's time. I just don't want to take too much. So far, the 2mg this morning is holding fine & anticipate taking 2mg in p.m.; however, I do not think that I will cut back tomorrow. Will take a stabilization day and see how I feel. I think I felt a little slight agitation but not bad a few hours ago, but ok now. I just don't want to build up a huge serum level. And I guess my thinking is that I don't want to take more than is absolutely necessary. I certainly WILL NOT choose the cold turkey route. I can't. I thought I was going mad. I handled all of the symptoms except for one...the restless leg. I literally made me want to beat my legs with a bat. It was insane. Never felt anything like it and don't want it again. Not in that big of a hurry.

Yes, agreed, the quantity first prescribed was far too much. It is my understanding, and I may be wrong, that there is somewhat of a ceiling effect with this drug at a certain level anyway.

Going for a walk late this afternoon and let a few endorphines TRY to raise their little heads. They have really left out in the cold these last few years! We'll see if they have any muscle left!!!!

T.

You are right about everything you said. Less can be better with suboxone. The more you take the more is in your system to come off of when you stop. What I did was similar to what you are doing. As I dropped my dose trying to get down to 2mg when I had a day where my stomach was a little queezy I would take an extra 2mg that day and then try to cut way back again the next day. If you go too far you can always take a little more. It won't hurt anything, but this way you can also find the lowest dosage you can be comfortable with.

The restless legs were horrible. I had them for months as I was also addicted to benzos badly. I had the RLS and "electric shock syndrome" big time. They were awful. I experienced PAWS before when I tried to cold turkey detox but I was so happy I didn't have any problems with this after the Subutex. I think it is a great medication as long as one uses it properly and doesn't take ridiculous amounts or for too long. That depends on the individual of course.

I think you are doing everything perfect. You won't have any W/Ds and you will have no trouble stopping the Suboxone as you are really watching the amount you are taking and for how long. When you finish with this you will be telling others how to use Suboxone. It is soooo easy if we do it properly. Glad things are going so well for you. And I know what you mean about the endorphines. I threw mine into shock too! I even started hitting the weights again after getting clean. My body doesn't know what to think. It keeps telling me to make up my mind. LOL God bless.

[Typical]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

You are right about everything you said. Less can be better with suboxone. The more you take the more is in your system to come off of when you stop. What I did was similar to what you are doing. As I dropped my dose trying to get down to 2mg when I had a day where my stomach was a little queezy I would take an extra 2mg that day and then try to cut way back again the next day. If you go too far you can always take a little more. It won't hurt anything, but this way you can also find the lowest dosage you can be comfortable with.

The restless legs were horrible. I had them for months as I was also addicted to benzos badly. I had the RLS and "electric shock syndrome" big time. They were awful. I experienced PAWS before when I tried to cold turkey detox but I was so happy I didn't have any problems with this after the Subutex. I think it is a great medication as long as one uses it properly and doesn't take ridiculous amounts or for too long. That depends on the individual of course.

I think you are doing everything perfect. You won't have any W/Ds and you will have no trouble stopping the Suboxone as you are really watching the amount you are taking and for how long. When you finish with this you will be telling others how to use Suboxone. It is soooo easy if we do it properly. Glad things are going so well for you. And I know what you mean about the endorphines. I threw mine into shock too! I even started hitting the weights again after getting clean. My body doesn't know what to think. It keeps telling me to make up my mind. LOL God bless.

Thanks for the encouraging words...I will try to live up to them ....

Will check in tomorrow....Thank you again for all the support...

Because of whose we are...
T.

[Typical]

WOO-HOO!! Yesterday went GREAT!!! No Problems!!!
Today, Day 5

So far:
Day 1: 24 mgs
Day 2: 16 Mgs
Day 3: 6 Mgs
Day 4: 4mgs
Day 5: 1mg so far this morning...feeling good

Had a great night's sleep...woke up over 15 hours after taking last dose yesterday. Upon waking,did not feel anxious, nervous NOR have that internal pressure building...you know what I mean!!! Just felt very good. MAYBE yesterday's evening walk really helped.

One thing, I need to get a little more skilled at cutting pills! Hard to get down past 1mg with an 8mg pill. If everything goes well, will ask for a lower dosage prescription when returning to doc next week so they are easier to cut.

Is my body recovering? I don't know to be honest. I feel good though.
My legs were very sore after going through the RLS for many hours prior to Sub induction. I think the walk helped that tremendously.

YIPPY!! Hope I am seeing the real light at the end of the tunnel and not a light bulb!

Even though I only took 1 mg this morning, will NOT risk feeling like I am backsliding physically. Will take more if necessary. Anticipate a 1mg dose this evening. Maybe a 1 mg dose mid-day. Trying to find that threashold.

Because of whose we are....
T.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by Typical

WOO-HOO!! Yesterday went GREAT!!! No Problems!!!
Today, Day 5

So far:
Day 1: 24 mgs
Day 2: 16 Mgs
Day 3: 6 Mgs
Day 4: 4mgs
Day 5: 1mg so far this morning...feeling good

Had a great night's sleep...woke up over 15 hours after taking last dose yesterday. Upon waking,did not feel anxious, nervous NOR have that internal pressure building...you know what I mean!!! Just felt very good. MAYBE yesterday's evening walk really helped.

One thing, I need to get a little more skilled at cutting pills! Hard to get down past 1mg with an 8mg pill. If everything goes well, will ask for a lower dosage prescription when returning to doc next week so they are easier to cut.

Is my body recovering? I don't know to be honest. I feel good though.
My legs were very sore after going through the RLS for many hours prior to Sub induction. I think the walk helped that tremendously.

YIPPY!! Hope I am seeing the real light at the end of the tunnel and not a light bulb!

Even though I only took 1 mg this morning, will NOT risk feeling like I am backsliding physically. Will take more if necessary. Anticipate a 1mg dose this evening. Maybe a 1 mg dose mid-day. Trying to find that threashold.

Because of whose we are....
T.

Congratulations! I know your positive experience is making you feel really good about this. Remember one thing as you start taking this down to really low doses. Suboxone has an extremely long half-life. In other words it stays in our systems a very long time. Even though we are reducing the dose today, what we have taken during the past couple days affects how we feel today. It's kind of deceiving.

With the half-life of Suboxone being as long as it is we can actually get away with medicating ourselves every other day sometimes. Often we find that we can skip a day entirely or sometimes even two days and not suffer any anxiety or that tight stomach feeling at all. Then we feel it on that next day. That is why if you read some of the horror stories some people talk about when stopping Suboxone they talk about the side effects of stopping not hitting them until the fourth day. You are taking small enough doses where this should not be a major factor but just keep things in perspective. Not trying to bring up negatives just want you to understand what is happening if you have two great days and then feel a little antsy the next day. It's just the half-life catching up with you. Don't be overly concerned about it. Just want you to know what it is should it happen. You can always take a little extra if it happens. The half-life can be confusing to us.

In answer to your question about healing, yes, your body is definitely healing. Had you decided to go cold turkey with the opiate detox, things often start feeling a little better about the fifth day. So by today's end, the VERY worst of your opiate W/Ds should be behind you. That doesn't mean they are done, just starting to subside now. Each day you should continue to feel some better. In opiate detox the RLS often lasts for some time. Depending on our addiction the total time to be past the detox completely can be a week or ten days to much longer if you are like me. That is why I suggested taking the Suboxone for three weeks. It helps us to be sure we don't get the end effects of the opiate detox still hitting us while we are stopping the Suboxone. It can be confusing with Suboxone. We start to feel so good we think the opiate detox has to be over but in reality it has not finished yet at all. Stopping Suboxone while we are still in opiate detox makes it impossible to tell what we are feeling. When I stopped Subutex I had no RLS or anything, but I gave it enough time to be sure I was past all the detox side effects from the opiates.

Cutting Suboxone pills is a hassle. Subutex like I took are scored and lots easier to cut. Suboxone is more difficult. At this point getting some 2mg pills would probably be helpful. Cutting them in half is not that big a deal. You don't need a month's worth, but I would get some. If you don't go back to the dr until next week you should only need a couple weeks' worth at the most as you will be getting closer to being done by then. I used a single-edged razor blade when I started getting down to 1mg. Just don't push down on the pill but slice it gently. If you put too much pressure on it you will just turn it to powder. Let me know how it's going. Good luck and God bless.

[Typical]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Congratulations! I know your positive experience is making you feel really good about this. Remember one thing as you start taking this down to really low doses. Suboxone has an extremely long half-life. In other words it stays in our systems a very long time. Even though we are reducing the dose today, what we have taken during the past couple days affects how we feel today. It's kind of deceiving.

With the half-life of Suboxone being as long as it is we can actually get away with medicating ourselves every other day sometimes. Often we find that we can skip a day entirely or sometimes even two days and not suffer any anxiety or that tight stomach feeling at all. Then we feel it on that next day. That is why if you read some of the horror stories some people talk about when stopping Suboxone they talk about the side effects of stopping not hitting them until the fourth day. You are taking small enough doses where this should not be a major factor but just keep things in perspective. Not trying to bring up negatives just want you to understand what is happening if you have two great days and then feel a little antsy the next day. It's just the half-life catching up with you. Don't be overly concerned about it. Just want you to know what it is should it happen. You can always take a little extra if it happens. The half-life can be confusing to us.

In answer to your question about healing, yes, your body is definitely healing. Had you decided to go cold turkey with the opiate detox, things often start feeling a little better about the fifth day. So by today's end, the VERY worst of your opiate W/Ds should be behind you. That doesn't mean they are done, just starting to subside now. Each day you should continue to feel some better. In opiate detox the RLS often lasts for some time. Depending on our addiction the total time to be past the detox completely can be a week or ten days to much longer if you are like me. That is why I suggested taking the Suboxone for three weeks. It helps us to be sure we don't get the end effects of the opiate detox still hitting us while we are stopping the Suboxone. It can be confusing with Suboxone. We start to feel so good we think the opiate detox has to be over but in reality it has not finished yet at all. Stopping Suboxone while we are still in opiate detox makes it impossible to tell what we are feeling. When I stopped Subutex I had no RLS or anything, but I gave it enough time to be sure I was past all the detox side effects from the opiates.

Cutting Suboxone pills is a hassle. Subutex like I took are scored and lots easier to cut. Suboxone is more difficult. At this point getting some 2mg pills would probably be helpful. Cutting them in half is not that big a deal. You don't need a month's worth, but I would get some. If you don't go back to the dr until next week you should only need a couple weeks' worth at the most as you will be getting closer to being done by then. I used a single-edged razor blade when I started getting down to 1mg. Just don't push down on the pill but slice it gently. If you put too much pressure on it you will just turn it to powder. Let me know how it's going. Good luck and God bless.

THANKS!!

That brings up a quick question...is 2mg considered a low dosage. So far so good on 1mg from this morning...been about 10-1/2 hours, but will go ahead and take another 1 mg at the 12 hour interval.

Yes, I do feel good. Did lots of housecleaning today and now preparing for another evening walk.

HOWEVER, according to my MD, this was supposed to have a bit of pain relieving quality. I don't think it does. The pain is there...totally bearable, but there. Deg. Disc disease here...lumbar and cervical...it can be a little relentless, but nonetheless, bearable. I think what you say is true about the 5 day thing...because I do feel the pain more today than I have in the past 4days. BUT THAT'S OK!!!! NOTHING LIKE WITHDRAWAL PAIN AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED...

Will also take care to watch the half-life passage of time so to speak. Having a journal of what you have taken should help that.

Have a great evening and thanks again!

Because of whose we are!

T.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by Typical

THANKS!!

That brings up a quick question...is 2mg considered a low dosage. So far so good on 1mg from this morning...been about 10-1/2 hours, but will go ahead and take another 1 mg at the 12 hour interval.

Yes, I do feel good. Did lots of housecleaning today and now preparing for another evening walk.

HOWEVER, according to my MD, this was supposed to have a bit of pain relieving quality. I don't think it does. The pain is there...totally bearable, but there. Deg. Disc disease here...lumbar and cervical...it can be a little relentless, but nonetheless, bearable. I think what you say is true about the 5 day thing...because I do feel the pain more today than I have in the past 4days. BUT THAT'S OK!!!! NOTHING LIKE WITHDRAWAL PAIN AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED...

Will also take care to watch the half-life passage of time so to speak. Having a journal of what you have taken should help that.

Have a great evening and thanks again!

Because of whose we are!

T.

A dose of 2mg is considered a very low dose by drs, but I think we have both seen that we can get by on a lot less than drs tell us we need. I also have degenerative disc disease and congenital scoliosis as well. My Rheumatoid Arthritis bothers my neck and shoulders too, so I have some ongoing back issues too. But like you I find them tolerable today.

I agree that if Buprenorphine (the drug in Suboxone and Subutex) has any pain relieving properties they are minimal. We just begin to see when we detox what are true pain level is when it's not compounded by our addiction to opiates. Addiction is very painful, quite often much more painful than our real pain is. When we are addicted our minds play tricks on us by putting us into W/Ds and convincing us we need more pain meds. When we get clean we don't have to deal with that anymore and often realize we can get by without the opiates. At least that is how it has worked out for me. I still have some pain, but not enough to make me go back to taking opiates again. I take anti-inflammatories, but nothing like opiates.

I figured you might experience a little pain along about now by the way you have cut back so quickly on your medication. But as long as you can handle things it's okay. Just don't cut back so much to where you find yourself having annoying opiate W/Ds. It's just not necessary. By the success you have had so far I think 2-3mg would be a good place to stay for a couple more days. That is a good level for now. I would try to give the half-life time to see if it bothers you. You will likely know by Sunday evening or Monday anyway. Then I would go to 2mg on Monday for a few more days. I would probably split the 2mg pills in half after that and stay there for a week trying it at 1mg. By the end of a week at 1mg you would be past the opiate detox for sure... then I would probably stop altogether if you feel up to it. I bet you are more than ready by then. And it won't be hard on you at all. See how it goes this weekend and go from there would be my suggestion. Talk to you tomorrow.

[Typical]

DOUBLE WOO-HOO, WOO-HOO

Made yesterday on 2mg very well all things GREAT!
Feel Good and sleeping VERY GOOD!!!

So far:
Day 1: 24 mgs
Day 2: 16 Mgs
Day 3: 6 Mgs
Day 4: 4mgs
Day 5: 2mg
Day 6:1mg this morning

Can't believe this!! Feeling great! Last night's walk was wonderful. I am waking up from a fog. This year will certainly be a special mother's day for me. Wow! It is going so well it is scary!!

Plan on taking another 1mg this evening just to try and see exactly where I am. Let things settle out. This is amazing compared to the way I felt Tuesday morning on the way to the doc to start Sub. God is good!!!

Because of whose we are!!

T.

[Robert_325]

I'm really glad it's going so well for you. I think it's smart of you to stay at 2mg and not go any further for a few days. When do you see your dr again???

Will talk to you again Monday. Congratulations on so much success with this. Makes one wonder why some people talk so negatively about Suboxone doesn't it???

[Typical]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

I'm really glad it's going so well for you. I think it's smart of you to stay at 2mg and not go any further for a few days. When do you see your dr again???

Will talk to you again Monday. Congratulations on so much success with this. Makes one wonder why some people talk so negatively about Suboxone doesn't it???

Thanks for the ongoing encouragement...THANKS!!!!

Did very well again today. Stayed at 2mg with no ill effects. Actually went swimming instead of walking today and have to say that I think that the exercise is what is really making the difference here in this situation. I think that is why I am getting such good sleep too.

Next Doc visit is Tues morning at 8 a.m.

I know? Why is the talk so negative???? Of course, I need to watch my comments and not overstep with my statements, as I am not off of the Sub yet...so best not get to over-confident here!!! BUT, going down quickly has not as of yet had any pitfalls.

It was a real lifesaver for me so far and as long as I don't have to deal with the "crazy legs" I am good to go!!!

Great mother's day for me here.

Because of whose we are!!!!!!!!

T.

[Typical]

Ok...here WE GO!!!

So far:
Day 1: 24 mgs
Day 2: 16 Mgs
Day 3: 6 Mgs
Day 4: 4mgs
Day 5: 2mg
Day 6: 2mg
Day 7: .5 mgs. this a.m.

Had another good sleep. Have work this morning. Everything trudging along just fine.

Its the exercise...it has to be the exercise!!!!

I hope that I am not getting too overconfident, but everything is just working so well. Anticiapte .5 mgs this evening.

Because of whose we are!!!

Feeling good...no....GREAT!!!!


T.

[Typical]

Ok,
May be reaching my minimal level at this point in time. Will take .5mg mid-day.
Feeling a little wierd...not BAD...but strange....So, because of this and the passage of half life time, I am going to assume that I must maintain a level of 2-1.5 mgs a day for a few days to let those HL times settle out. Will not chance the return of the "crazy legs."

Not Great...but NOT BAD!!!!!

T.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by Typical

Ok,
May be reaching my minimal level at this point in time. Will take .5mg mid-day.
Feeling a little wierd...not BAD...but strange....So, because of this and the passage of half life time, I am going to assume that I must maintain a level of 2-1.5 mgs a day for a few days to let those HL times settle out. Will not chance the return of the "crazy legs."

Not Great...but NOT BAD!!!!!

T.

This is exactly why I suggested to not reduce the dose anymore for a few days. It's okay, just take some more. You have done so well ... taking a little extra is fine. You are so far ahead of the game compared to most that this isn't even a setback. It's just part of the process. Hang in there. You are doing incredibly well. Your dr will be blown away tomorrow with your progress. God bless.

[Typical]

I am SO UPSET AM ABOUT TO JUST CRY, CRY AND CRY SOME MORE!!!

Went to the doctor this morning. Found out insurance is kicking this over to mental healthy instead of medical and will cover none of the suboxone treatment effective May 1. I find this to be an absolute travisty. EVEN THOUGH the doc told them that I was not addicted but physically dependent after using a duragesic patch for 4 years. Told them I did not have the "addicitive personality," blah, blah, blah....I want to cry. I can not afford out of pocket treatment. I guess it is a damn good thing that I tapered down so quickly. Pay nearly 500.00 a month for insurance and they will not cover this.....I am at a loss.....YET they will cover antidepressants....WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE????

I don't know what to do...I have several of the 8mg tablets left since I tapered down so quickly. I am going to have to start skipping days and make the best of this.

Just am so very disappointed....

T.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by Typical

I am SO UPSET AM ABOUT TO JUST CRY, CRY AND CRY SOME MORE!!!

Went to the doctor this morning. Found out insurance is kicking this over to mental healthy instead of medical and will cover none of the suboxone treatment effective May 1. I find this to be an absolute travisty. EVEN THOUGH the doc told them that I was not addicted but physically dependent after using a duragesic patch for 4 years. Told them I did not have the "addicitive personality," blah, blah, blah....I want to cry. I can not afford out of pocket treatment. I guess it is a damn good thing that I tapered down so quickly. Pay nearly 500.00 a month for insurance and they will not cover this.....I am at a loss.....YET they will cover antidepressants....WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE????

I don't know what to do...I have several of the 8mg tablets left since I tapered down so quickly. I am going to have to start skipping days and make the best of this.

Just am so very disappointed....

T.

I know exactly how you feel. My insurance refused payment for what they called "maintenance treatment". It really made me upset too. I could not believe they would continue to pay for ridiculous amounts of opiates ... no questions asked. But they wouldn't pay for me to stop using them. Doesn't make much sense does it??? I was paying $300 for my script of Subutex. That is insane. I went ahead and paid for it but that was certainly a factor in me deciding to stop when I did.

Don't let this affect you being positive. You are right that it is a good thing that you have maintained a small dosage like you have. But hey, God has a way of looking out for us when we are doing the right thing. You would be in a real mess if you were still taking 16mg or especially 24mg like you were when you started. You know what I mean???

You can do this. Even if you have to tell the dr to give you even 5 or 6 more pills ... if you need them. If you have several of the 8mg pills left just stay at 2mg and that is 4 days a pill. Here is what I would suggest with the new circumstances you find yourself in. As soon as you have two weeks from the day you started cut back to 1mg ... tough it out if you have to for a week at 1mg. You can do it. It won't be that hard I promise you. You can always take just a little extra piece if you have to. After a week you will have 3 weeks clean. Your opiate detox will be over with by then. And you should still have enough pills for this. Then I would try to stop. If you have the "tight stomach" and uneasy feelings some, just break off the smallest piece you can. I did that the last couple of times I took the Subutex. A little piece will go a long ways for you since you are taking so little anyway. A few days of a little piece and you will be ready to quit completely I promise.

Don't let the insurance idiots mess with your head. You can do this just fine without them ... I promise you can. Just don't lose sight of your goal. Getting upset is bad for relapses!!! Don't let it get to you. You will be fine.

[Typical]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

I know exactly how you feel. My insurance refused payment for what they called "maintenance treatment". It really made me upset too. I could not believe they would continue to pay for ridiculous amounts of opiates ... no questions asked. But they wouldn't pay for me to stop using them. Doesn't make much sense does it??? I was paying $300 for my script of Subutex. That is insane. I went ahead and paid for it but that was certainly a factor in me deciding to stop when I did.

Don't let this affect you being positive. You are right that it is a good thing that you have maintained a small dosage like you have. But hey, God has a way of looking out for us when we are doing the right thing. You would be in a real mess if you were still taking 16mg or especially 24mg like you were when you started. You know what I mean???

You can do this. Even if you have to tell the dr to give you even 5 or 6 more pills ... if you need them. If you have several of the 8mg pills left just stay at 2mg and that is 4 days a pill. Here is what I would suggest with the new circumstances you find yourself in. As soon as you have two weeks from the day you started cut back to 1mg ... tough it out if you have to for a week at 1mg. You can do it. It won't be that hard I promise you. You can always take just a little extra piece if you have to. After a week you will have 3 weeks clean. Your opiate detox will be over with by then. And you should still have enough pills for this. Then I would try to stop. If you have the "tight stomach" and uneasy feelings some, just break off the smallest piece you can. I did that the last couple of times I took the Subutex. A little piece will go a long ways for you since you are taking so little anyway. A few days of a little piece and you will be ready to quit completely I promise.

Don't let the insurance idiots mess with your head. You can do this just fine without them ... I promise you can. Just don't lose sight of your goal. Getting upset is bad for relapses!!! Don't let it get to you. You will be fine.

ok...
just did an inventory....have 13 of the 8's left....
yesterday, I took 3x.5 so that mean I took 1.5 mgs all day and was ok. I took one mid day because of the uneasiness I was experiencing and that worked fine. Think I will stay there for a week, then cut to .5 the following week...that will be three weeks (today is the first day of week 2). I should be able to just stop at .5...although....the pills really start crumbling when you cut that small...will be VERY careful. I also have several pieces outside of the 13 8's.....

Thank the LORD (and I mean that in every sense) that I cut back so very quickly. The doc thought that was a good thing too. The doc wanted to prescribe Norco....c