[leiito]

I've had a love affair with heroin for over 20 years now, when I made my first line I felt complete for the first time in my life. Like the missing piece of the puzzle clicked in. I tried almost every drug under the sun and while I had cocaine and speedball periods nothing came remotely close to how pure (and not so pure) heroin made me feel. These days crack is all the rage here, I only liked it first time and have zero interest in it now.

I finished my first 2 years of university shooting up heroin, top of my class, at one stage I ran the local office of British Telecom managing 15 people successfully. I've had major ups and downs in life and not all the downs (nor ups) were the result of my addictions.

I try to keep as healthy as possible, I stopped shooting years ago and always went the extra mile and paid top dollar for as pure H as possible. Hell, I went to live in Thailand and Cambodia for quality heroin.

I never got extra heavily addicted no matter what quantity I had and when I wasn't sufficiently euphoric (every few years) I switched to methadone for a while and returned to my DOC later. I never stole from my friends or family (did borrow though), never spent rent, mortgage, food money for drugs, never dealt drugs or committed any serious crime. As a matter of fact I was fortunate enough to never experience real withdrawal unless I was detoxing on purpose.

I work out and play sports I eat healthy food, I take food supplements, I'm visiting dentist regularly, I'm healthy and in good shape, I have a very good relationship with my wife (not a user), a wide social network, a couple of good friends, I enjoy various hobbies like playing *************************, I read a lot of books, I love music, movies, museums, travelling, intelligent conversations, meeting interesting people etc.

The main reason if not the only reason I decided to stop using H was financial and in hindsight the reason for financial troubles is that I took too much time and energy finding money and/or quality H. I am currently on Subutex and happily recovering, but let's say I will come to a large amount of money in a few years' time, will I keep committed to being clean?

Question: if you had as much money as you wanted or an endless supply of your DOC, would you really want to be on a substitute drug or detox?

Here's as good a place as any to remind you how high the relapse percentage is so most people here will go back to using.

I have to honestly admit that I would trade the loss of emotions (I was too emotional anyway), the loss of libido (this one is a major trade off) and constipation (many good meds available for that) for permanent bliss and happiness, as synthetic as it may be.

Wouldn't you?

Am I wrong in thinking that some people just function better on opiates?

Leiito

[tesa22]

Originally Posted by leiito

I've had a love affair with heroin for over 20 years now, when I made my first line I felt complete for the first time in my life. Like the missing piece of the puzzle clicked in. I tried almost every drug under the sun and while I had cocaine and speedball periods nothing came remotely close to how pure (and not so pure) heroin made me feel. These days crack is all the rage here, I only liked it first time and have zero interest in it now.

I finished my first 2 years of university shooting up heroin, top of my class, at one stage I ran the local office of British Telecom managing 15 people successfully. I've had major ups and downs in life and not all the downs (nor ups) were the result of my addictions.

I try to keep as healthy as possible, I stopped shooting years ago and always went the extra mile and paid top dollar for as pure H as possible. Hell, I went to live in Thailand and Cambodia for quality heroin.

I never got extra heavily addicted no matter what quantity I had and when I wasn't sufficiently euphoric (every few years) I switched to methadone for a while and returned to my DOC later. I never stole from my friends or family (did borrow though), never spent rent, mortgage, food money for drugs, never dealt drugs or committed any serious crime. As a matter of fact I was fortunate enough to never experience real withdrawal unless I was detoxing on purpose.

I work out and play sports I eat healthy food, I take food supplements, I'm visiting dentist regularly, I'm healthy and in good shape, I have a very good relationship with my wife (not a user), a wide social network, a couple of good friends, I enjoy various hobbies like playing *************************, I read a lot of books, I love music, movies, museums, travelling, intelligent conversations, meeting interesting people etc.

The main reason if not the only reason I decided to stop using H was financial and in hindsight the reason for financial troubles is that I took too much time and energy finding money and/or quality H. I am currently on Subutex and happily recovering, but let's say I will come to a large amount of money in a few years' time, will I keep committed to being clean?

Question: if you had as much money as you wanted or an endless supply of your DOC, would you really want to be on a substitute drug or detox?

Here's as good a place as any to remind you how high the relapse percentage is so most people here will go back to using.

I have to honestly admit that I would trade the loss of emotions (I was too emotional anyway), the loss of libido (this one is a major trade off) and constipation (many good meds available for that) for permanent bliss and happiness, as synthetic as it may be.

Wouldn't you?

Am I wrong in thinking that some people just function better on opiates?

Leiito

I think your absolutly correct. I think they should just legalize Heroin and allow grown ups to decide. I am a health care professional, and I believe Heroin should be sold through the pharmacy so that it is pure and safe It would save the government tons of money in crime and they could even tax the hell out of it put the money to education. I have been taking methadone for seven years now and am currently tapering. I think I have an opiate themostat that likes to be at certain level and when it goes down the cravings come on I haven't decided if I want to come completly off or stay at a low level......I guess I will see how it goes.

[sasquatch69]

To address your last question: "Am I wrong in thinking that some people just function better on opiates?".

Alcoholics will say they function better when they're drunk. And it may be true. An alcoholic needs liquor just to function normally. But that comes from the dependence. It eventually gets to the point where an addict can no longer function normally without their particular type of drug.

But it's open for interpretation what you mean by "better". You may FEEL better on opiates, but how you feel might be very different from how people see you.
A drunk may think he is acting quite rationally, when in fact he may be acting like an ass. Alcohol impairs your judgement. I think opiates, especially heroin, can probably impair judgement in some way as well. So how can you say that you function better when you are high? All you can really say is that you "feel" like you are functioning better, because you are blissful, or more relaxed.

A fellow who is hopped up on amphetamines will undoubtedly say he functions better when on than off, and to some extent it may be true. Someone influenced by amphetamines can probably get a lot done (one reason for the abuse).
But any intoxication comes with a loss of control, to some extent. And a loss of control is not something I would like to experience indefinitely, even if I had an endless supply of the drug.

[mpvt]

There are many functioning addict's in society and alot of them die of old age before problems from their addiction.That is a very very small percentage of addicts though.
I went 23+ years of drug abuse everyday and never once was I in withdrawls.Even to this day I have never had them.I was very lucky in that I had the money and resources to have opiates everyday.
The first few years was great but after that I couldn't get high on anything which was extremely frustrating.I had an insatiable appetite and I never felt I had enough.
The euphoria soon changed to dysphoria and I became nasty and violent if pushed even the slightest.All in all I had a huge chip on my shoulder because I couldn't get high.
I finally started to look into what options I had as I knew after 23 years that I was slowly losing the battle.
I got on methadone in July 2002 and had a very difficult time stabilizing as I needed quite a bit to stop my cravings.It took over a year but I finally stabilized at 400mgs a day.I stayed at that dose for 4 years.After the 4 years I started to feel 5that I could come down on my dose.It took 2 more years but I'm down to 190mgs a day and feel just as well as I did at 400mgs a day.

I feel that I suffer from a lack of endorphins in my body and brain and that after quite a few surgeries realized that the opiates made me feel a little better.This is were I should have realized that I was using them for all the wrong reasons.

So all in all I can say that I was in the position of having all the opiates in wanted and I had it for a long time and could still have to this day but the truth is that after awhile you feel even worse then before you started taking opiates.
I'm likely going to be on methadone or some sort of ORT (Opiate Replacement Therapy) for the rest of my life but that's ok.I am stabile now and my life is great.I do know that if I stopped MMT then I would be right back to being that terrible person that I become when actively addicted.....Dave

[leiito]

I tend to agree that some people can function normally on opiates, co-founder of John Hopkins and father of modern surgery Dr Halsted was a morphinist all his adult life to no obvious ill effect.

As to dysphoria replacing euphoria, chips on shoulders and such, I was on H for 20 years and thought H didn't work for me anymore as far as euphoria went either until I got hold of pure H, but I was never nasty or violent when high (or not sick). Overhere they seem to mix H with some sedatives so when I took enough it was not that pleasant nodding with purple imagery in my head when eyes shut, it was more like sleeping, but again, purer H did work and if I were ever to use again I would purify my H.

Strangely enough, I was getting somewhat nastier and more violent when I started Subutex therapy. I would snap to people for no obvious reason, make mean remarks and generally put them down for absolutely no reason. I have the misfortune to often be around people who consider such behaviour normal so it didn't register for me until I started being real nasty to my wife who had been nothing but understanding and supportive.

Sub does the trick in some ways (I can perform sexually for instance and have the desire to, something I almost forgot about while being opiated), but this unexplainable nervousness went away when I started working out. I push myself real hard on both cardio and weights and it seems like the endorphine factory re-opened, I actually get a pleasant high after exercise (only aerobic does this though, weight only do not make me high).

Another thing on Sub, at least for me, was that I did not get my energy back. I was as lethargic (or lazy) as on H or methadone. Most people report an energy boost almost high-like in nature, I felt nothing of the kind, but again, exercise helped.

Weird thing, opiates, but nothing beats the weirdness of Bupe.

P.S.
To make it even weirder, cocaine doesn't work for me anymore. As much as I tried to take and as good as it was, I feel absolutely nothing positive, I smoked base once while on Bupe and only felt physical discomfort. Not a bad side-effect, just unexpected. Ganja works though.

[sasquatch69]

It's an interesting question, though. I think a lot of people would choose to stay on opiates (or their drug of choice) if given a guaranteed lifetimie supply. I wouldnt personally, but I can see how/why many other would.

[sasquatch69]

Originally Posted by leiito

P.S.
To make it even weirder, cocaine doesn't work for me anymore. As much as I tried to take and as good as it was, I feel absolutely nothing positive, I smoked base once while on Bupe and only felt physical discomfort. Not a bad side-effect, just unexpected. Ganja works though.

Did the cocaine stop working for you only after you started the sub? Or do you think it was that you naturally just developed a tolerance to the good effects?

[leiito]

I honestly admit I would self-administer pure heroin all my life if I had unlimited supply of heroin and money. Wouldn't think twice, but my idea of getting high on opiates is not to nod 24/7, I wouldn't want to have life pass me by while I'm sleeping.

I also believe that most people who tasted opiates and would have limitless supply wouldn't bother detoxing if it were not for some financial or medical problem.

If I were wrong the relapse % wouldnt be as high as it is.

In fact, I think a lot of older people would benefit from opiates when they are physically and mentally frail.

As to Sasquatch's question re: cocaine, for me it just doesn't work on Bupe. It worked before, it will work again (I reckon), but right now it doesnt. It was not the tolerance. Firstly, I'm not a heavy cocaine user, once a week is about it, but I see that people who use more and more frequently still get high, they just need more than I do. Secondly, I all but stopped taking cocaine altogether because everything seemed too low quality, but then I happened to come across stuff that gave me a high I had imagined before I tried coke first time, you know, with the self-confident, chatty, social character to it. It's not just about purity, I once had puro straight from Cali, Colombia and didn't like it, kinda made me nervous, I guess its kinda like wine, many factors have to come together to make quality cocaine and at least here in Europe the primo stuff is snatched by celebrities and such, little left for mere mortals.

Most importantly, re: Bupe a.k.a. Subutex/Suboxone. This stuff is great for short detocx, but so unpredictable and risky for anything longer than a couple of months that I'm getting off. It's bizarre what this drug can do, some people report depression and post acute withdrawal dragging on for 2 years after being on Bupe for less than 1 year. Majority of users report this weird depression, lethargy, amotivation etc.

Thank ******************** it's not hard to taper. I went from 24mg to 8mg in less than a week, even skipped a day without feeling any discomfort. I've only been taking it for 3 weeks so hopefully I won't be sick too much when I cut it off altogether in 3 weeks max. I don't propose any special tapering strategy, do what your body tells you to do, but do get off Bupe a.s.a.p.

Unless of course you're in the 5% or so that get an actual buzz from Bupe, but in that case you're actually abusing the drug not using it for its purpose. Personally I find it hard to believe how Bupe can make an opiate addict high. Its not just a partial agonist but a mixed agonist, meaning it acts as antagonist on mu receptors producing dysphoria, especially in higher doses.

There are some reports that people get the effect of a full agonist (like heroin or methadone) on very low doses, under 2mgs, perhaps in doses so low mu receptors are not stimulated adversely and a pleasant high can occur, but I doubt it. If that were the case than you would just stop taking it at whatever dosage you are on and once it reached 2mgs (after several days, long half life etc) you'd get high instead of being in wd.

Then again, Bupe is so weird and little understood that anything is possible, I'll see soon enough, I should be hitting under 2mgs in less than a week and if I get a high I'll report it (gladly).

[Spaun09]

Originally Posted by leiito

I've had a love affair with heroin for over 20 years now, when I made my first line I felt complete for the first time in my life. Like the missing piece of the puzzle clicked in. I tried almost every drug under the sun and while I had cocaine and speedball periods nothing came remotely close to how pure (and not so pure) heroin made me feel. These days crack is all the rage here, I only liked it first time and have zero interest in it now.

I finished my first 2 years of university shooting up heroin, top of my class, at one stage I ran the local office of British Telecom managing 15 people successfully. I've had major ups and downs in life and not all the downs (nor ups) were the result of my addictions.

I try to keep as healthy as possible, I stopped shooting years ago and always went the extra mile and paid top dollar for as pure H as possible. Hell, I went to live in Thailand and Cambodia for quality heroin.

I never got extra heavily addicted no matter what quantity I had and when I wasn't sufficiently euphoric (every few years) I switched to methadone for a while and returned to my DOC later. I never stole from my friends or family (did borrow though), never spent rent, mortgage, food money for drugs, never dealt drugs or committed any serious crime. As a matter of fact I was fortunate enough to never experience real withdrawal unless I was detoxing on purpose.

I work out and play sports I eat healthy food, I take food supplements, I'm visiting dentist regularly, I'm healthy and in good shape, I have a very good relationship with my wife (not a user), a wide social network, a couple of good friends, I enjoy various hobbies like playing *************************, I read a lot of books, I love music, movies, museums, travelling, intelligent conversations, meeting interesting people etc.

The main reason if not the only reason I decided to stop using H was financial and in hindsight the reason for financial troubles is that I took too much time and energy finding money and/or quality H. I am currently on Subutex and happily recovering, but let's say I will come to a large amount of money in a few years' time, will I keep committed to being clean?

Question: if you had as much money as you wanted or an endless supply of your DOC, would you really want to be on a substitute drug or detox?

Here's as good a place as any to remind you how high the relapse percentage is so most people here will go back to using.

I have to honestly admit that I would trade the loss of emotions (I was too emotional anyway), the loss of libido (this one is a major trade off) and constipation (many good meds available for that) for permanent bliss and happiness, as synthetic as it may be.

Wouldn't you?

Am I wrong in thinking that some people just function better on opiates?

Leiito

A endless Supply is all i need...Any trade off is worth it.The Opiate Euphoria
is better than sex any way

[bev49]

What an interesting question. I am 60 years old (today is my birthday actually)... I have been an IV heroin addict, on a methadone program for many years, and am now on suboxone. Nothing compares to heroin. Nothing in the world. I suppose if I had unlimited money and an unlimited supply and it were legal, it would be next to impossible not to use it. However, as things stand now, an unlimited supply is never a guarantee. And the amount you need increases over time so you need even more money. Theoretically, it sounds like a dream come true but its impossible for most people. I am now on subutex, on 1 mg. a day. There is nothing even close to a euphoria with sub for most people although a small percentage report they do get high. I know I don't. When I started on a high dose, 16 mgs. a day, it was awful. I was a nervous wreck and couldn't sleep. The lower dose works much better. Although I don't get high, I am relatively normal. But to be perfectly honest, unlimited high quality H, without the financial or legal burden, is a very nice fantasy, but its just that, a fantasy.

[lanc24]

I mean dont get me wrong some drugs make you feel incredible... Consider the fact your body would give out at about half the time of the normal persons which you would die very early on most likely if your doing any REALLY GOOD drug (besides MJ possibly imo). Your face would be a mess you would be extremely unhealthy and out of shape. I have know people who had what they wanted like that, and they got to the point where they were in disgusting shape and just sat/laid around all day every day and did whatever drug they happened to be doing. Seemed to me like life does not get any more miserable than that. What about the women(or men for females), what about real happiness, there is definately more to life than just drugs and its all around us. The only drug I don't believe will totally screw you over is MJ for multiple reasons... But in my opinion no, trade experiencing real life over just being doped out all day every day? Na not for me. Have fun party all that **** but dont let it hook you. Just my opinion... good topic at times I have talked about wanting infinite amounts of OC with other ppl. Usually as using or under influence of. If not doing something slightly lesser and wanting the goods.