[2packrats]

My son is 22 and been in a methadone treatment program for 18 months. He was addicted to heroin and oxycontin before the methadone started. NOW, he has decided to stop the methadone treatment. He was taking 75 mg. daily. He took his last dose Friday (5 days ago).

He is now driving us crazy. He has taken some hydrocodone and other pain meds off the street. He says his skin is "crawling". He cannot sleep.

I carried him to the local hospital Monday and Tuesday. The labs showed up 5 different illegal drugs in his system. STILL HE WAS NOT ADMITTED ANYWHERE~!!

What can I do? The hospital suggested I return with him to the methadone clinic and let them handle it. The methadone clinic said they would take him off 2 mg every other day.................

Any other ideas out there? I am ready to jump off a bridge myself~!! Be thankful you don't live in NORTH CAROLINA................

Thanks,
Kim

[2packrats]

The doctor gave ME this for my nerves today:

HYDROXYZINE HCL 25 mg

I gave it to him. It don't seem to be helping..............What should he be taking?? Where should I carry him?

Either he has to get help OR I am going to have a heart attack. This is serious.

Thanks,
Kim

[cheekysod]

hi pack rat.
that is real serious my friend. that is far far too high a dose of methadone to just stop. no wonder hes lookin round for anything that will help.
you cant come off methadone at that high and expect it to be ok.
why did he decide to jump at that dose.? anyway, whatever his reasons it was probable a rash decision, yep you should get back to the methadone clinic asap, and they can deal alright.
otherwise, have you heard of suboxone, if your boy is right now in severe withdrawls, this would be the ideal time to start on them.
its still an opiate, but it works differently (tell you more some other time) but they are a lot easier to taper down off.
i have been on methadone for 10 years or more, and other stuff. but in july i changed to subs, and i have got myself down (with this forum) from 12mg to
.5 mg, at present. its the first time i have been confident im going to beat it this time.
ive jumped off methadone, not nice, ugly, and ive counted down off methadone, still ugly once you hit zero.
so get to some sort of medical assistance, either the clinic, or a doctor who prescribes subs.
good luck.
and i will try and answer any questions you have.
cheeky

p.s and don't let him play you, its really hard, but he will be over acting to make sure he covers his butt in relation to the other drugs in his system. and the hydros would have helped.
hes gonna continue using until he sorts this out.
and don't carry him mate, hes a big boy, obviously thinks hes big enough to take all the drugs, do not fall into enabling him, strong, tough love. im not saying make him suffer, but he has to step up and take some responsibility, i still cant beleive he jumped at that dose. is there something he aint telling you.

[newyorkgal]

In addition to what cheeky said, of course he had 5 illegal drugs in his system. He is so desperate, trying to do anything to fix the major mistake he made: jumping off methadone at 75. I don't know what he could have been thinking unless he just wanted to get high since meth doesnt do that very well taken orally at a fixed dose. He should go right back to the program and let them do the 2 mg. a day thing.Even that is too fast once you get down to the end. But when he gets down to under 30, he can look into the subutex cheeky mentioned. It would be the easiest way for him to get through this. He has to get back on meth right now though or he will definitely have big problems. I was on methadone much longer than him. No way would I have gotten off without tapering all the way down very very slowly. I switched to subutex, painlessly.

[2packrats]

He does not have the money to pay for the methadone and I refuse to pay another dime. That's how all this started Saturday morning.

He has no insurance. We live 45 miles from the methadone clinic too. It all adds up............What a trip.

[newyorkgal]

At this point, can't he even find the money so they can detox him at the 2 mgs. a day? Stopping at 75 mg. is the biggest disaster I can think of. The only other thing I can think of is subutex which they give free to certain people who have no funds or insurance. You would have to do research on the intenet about that. Stopping at 75 mg. is virtually impossible. If you've driven him all this time, my opinion is at least let htem bring him down.

[2packrats]

We made the decision to return to the methadone clinic which is 45 miles away from our home on day 6. He was in pretty bad shape. Dummy me thought they would surely put him in detox IF he ask AND he did~!!

Instead they gave him 30 mg. of methadone. He was angry because it had dropped so much from the 75. Today he got 40. Tomorrow he will get 50 etc.

He is going back on methadone for the time being BUT he has to work AND pay for the methadone AND my gas to get to the clinic ($20 per day). My husband and I think that is only fair. He is the recovering addict NOT us.

ALSO, he HAS to STOP smoking pot/weed. IF he does this, he will be allowed to bring home his methadone on weekends and work his way up to weekly WITH CLEAN drug screens.

I will do a Internet search and see what I can come up with on the free suboxone (sp) and stop the methadone.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP~!!

Kim

[Insatiable123]

hi 2packrats,

it sounds like you have your hands full there...wow... i commend you for trying to get him the help he needs....and sure, he should help you pay for your gas and inconveniences. with that said, can he apply for Medicaid? can you call around the hospitals that have in-house rehabs and have him locked up for a little while??? he sounds like he needs the whole work up meaning therapy and the subs ..... Methadone is a trap, its just another drug to get hooked on.. i have seen many get trapped in that web. the other sub that cheaky was referring too is successful but again can be as addictive... my best advice to you is to get him into a in-house rehab and see what they can do... i don’t understand why the methadone clinic would increase his doses instead of lowering them that makes no sense to me.

[newyorkgal]

I agree with you about methadone being a trap usually (not always, its necessary for some - another story for another thread), but this guy is already IN THE TRAP. He is on 75 mgs. which is relatively a high dose and stopped suddenly which is horrible. I agree with the parents, he should pay the gas, pay for the methadone, and he should definitely stop smoking weed so he can at least get the weekend take homes. If he doesn't agree to that, then I would let him know you will stop driving him and paying. I have to ask, why are they raising him? I thought the plan was detox at 2 mgs. per day.
There is no way this should be your problem if he won't cooperate (work, stop the weed, give you money). Give him the ultimatum and a short time to get his act together. Let him go to the program and ask them to detox him, not raise him. He's an adult already and if he won't stop the weed to get take homes or work to pay for his meth, then he knows he can take advantage of you and is doing just that.

[2packrats]

We were told when he took his first legal dose of methadone at the clinic by the clinic on August 5, 2008 that the AVERAGE person stays on methadone for TWO YEARS before coming off.

We were also told by the clinic (his father and I were they with him when they were talking--we didn't trust his word) that the dose starts out at 25 to 30 mg. per person--depends on how heavy of a user they are/were of opiates and or heroin.........He used both. He started out at 30 mg.

After 4 months he was up to 130 mg. and still climbing. He tested positive for Xanax FIVE different times in 6 weeks. The clinic did NOTHING but "fuss" at him. He had his files sealed so they were no longer able to talk to me about him............He was 21 and knew it all. I was 47 and knew nothing.

When I found out this, I went into the clinic and into his counselors office. She told me she could not speak to me. I told her FINE. I would do all the talking. She could listen. I told her that my uncle was an attorney to look him up on the computer and gave him her his name. I told her that IF THEY DID NOT DO SOMETHING ABOUT him mixing the benzos with methadone I would.

If something happened to my son, I would close their doors and shut that clinic down. She didn't say a word. They next day, my son was furious. They started dropping his dose daily. His dose dropped until he cleaned up. It dropped down to 75 mg.

At this private clinic, you cannot get over 75 mg. without the doctors orders. I have made sure he has not seen the doctor since.

He cannot get medicaid in the state of North Carolina over the age of 21 IF his is not disabled (he is not) OR he does not have children out of wedlock. He has no children and is not married.

Our income is NOT an issue with him. It is his income the state counts. I don't think his $6,000 last year got in the way.

I am proud of him for getting off the heroin. BUT I believe the methadone makes a person lazy.................The 4 or 5 kids that I know that go do nothing but wait for their daily dose and eat and sleep..................I talk with their parents and we all sing the same song~!!

This time we are sticking to our guns. He will pay for the methadone. He will help pay for my gas to drive the 97 miles daily. He has until the first of the year to have a clean urine (got to get that weed out) so he can get his weekend end take homes. IF he does not do all this, then we have no choice but to cut him off.

Thanks guys,
Kim

[newyorkgal]

Dear Kim, You're making the right decision making your son be responsible for himself. There is no reason you should continue to pay his way especially if he refuses to do even the minimum to get take home.
I have to take issue with your statement that methadone makes people lazy. Not true at all. Its the person, not the methadone. While I was on methadone, I had a family including two kids who grew up to be successful, I worked as a legal assistant/paralegal. I was on the program with professionals from all walks of life, a nurse, a cop, businesspeople, etc., together with people who weren't interested in changing at all. If you still have the drug addict mentality and aren't serious about getting your life together after heroin, you will be lazy and do nothing but you can't make a blanket statement like that. Methadone has no secret ingredient that makes one lazy. There are people not on any drug at all who sit home all day watching TV. You just can't generalize about anything. Methadone is a good drug for addicts who have exhausted all other options. If a person wants to change their life for the better, they can do so while on a methadone program.

[cheekysod]

hey nyg. im not dissing what you say. ok. you know me.
but i found i was extremely unmotivated in my usual life once i went on the methadone. and i didnt stay on the one dose, i was always looking for more.
and i did all i could to stuff up the urine tests, if i knew i would do a dirty i would call in and say i couldnt get there due to work.
so even tho packrat is saying it makes you lazy, to some extent i can agree. coz specially once we are happily stoned, what more to do, nyg i know you were a busy mom, and working , but i found i was lazy and unmotivated, and i put on a ton of weight coz all i did was eat chocolate ice cream and sit around. i did need it tho, to slowly make some life changes, even tho its a pain, its a lot easier than running round trying to score drugs, with no money. i have friends still now on meth, and i see them, no job, no money, and im glad i was a step above that, always working, dont know how i made it but i did. so i can see what packrat is getting at. specially in an otherwise healthy young man. drugs have definately taken hold. and arrogance by the sounds of it.

pack rat, you defintately made the right decision, what do they say shape up or ship out. your son has been playing you. he does need to be responsible for his own addiction. he got himself there. he needs to ask for the assistance to get out. you wont be able to force him. but with rules and conditions he will have to step up, if he doesnt pay you, are you going to take him the next day.? i hope not. tell him to get that hitch hiking thumb ready. im serious, if you back down once you will back down all the time. be strong mate.

and if he is serious about coming off, he should stop at 50mg. the higher he goes the harder its going to be. it sounds to me like hes not really serious yet. hes still mucking around with weed and benzos, and who knows what else, so hes not really ready. and i still stick to my guns about subs being easier to taper off than methadone. for starters you dont get the same high.
so you already can practise being normal, way before you really get there.

good luck to you
cheeky

[newyorkgal]

hiya cheeky, hope you're feeling better.... There is one big difference here and where you are. We are NOT able to shoot methadone in any way shape or form like its done there. I think methadone in your paradise is more like heroin here. If I had been able to shoot up methadone after being addicted to heroin, I'd be exactly where I was on heroin to begin with. Still, yes, there were ALOT of people on the program buying bottles to double up and buying benzos to get, as you say, all drooly LOL... At the same time, there were people who used it the right way and quite a few working professionals. While on meth, my high dose was 80 and I brought myself down to 25 on my own and was on that the last 5 or so years before the switch. I didn't take extra, didn't take pills. It worked for me except that I couldnt stand the BS stigma, the stupid rules (similar to the ********e you go through down there wth the chemist and sub)... I had not had a dirty urine in many years and was eligible for once a month pick ups (too far to travel with the job I had). So, cheeky, matey, you are right and I am right, in my opinion. I was on methadone with all kinds of people. In fact, I WAS all kinds. When I first started WAYY back when alot of people here were little kids or not yet born, I was the pill taking lazy loser doing nothing but I evolved while on methadone and in the last many years on methadone I was a functioning productive member of society. I ********e you not.
I will say however (and I can't say this strongly enough) that methadone is a hard core ORT that should only be considered as a last resort and should never be considered for someone with a short term pill habit. There are many many options to try and ways to go before considering methadone maintenance.
NYG

[cherrybombmom]

i was on methadone for 2 years-85 mgs...and detoxed in 3 months...it was absolute hell for me for about 3 months straight. immediately after i detoxed i went to the er & explained to them what was going on & they prescribed me ativan for 7 days which did little for the insomnia/anxiety/pain/rls/migraines..etc. when i look back on it now i don't know how i ever made it through...the pain i experienced in my body after detoxing was something that i can not put into words. in my opinion-unless you plan on being on methadone for the rest of your life (which i think most private clinics want) you should try any other option possible.

[newyorkgal]

methadone is a LAST RESORT option but there are people who have tried all else and need that last resort. I have seen people get off methadone. Not in three months though. It takes about a year to taper off an 85 mg. habit. It has to be done super S L O W L Y. Or it could be done by switching to subutex when you get to the low doses then tapering off that. I never would refer anyone to methadone lightly. But when all else fails for a hard core addict, over and over, I think there is a place for methadone maintenance.

[EricaMarie]

Originally Posted by 2packrats

We were told when he took his first legal dose of methadone at the clinic by the clinic on August 5, 2008 that the AVERAGE person stays on methadone for TWO YEARS before coming off.

We were also told by the clinic (his father and I were they with him when they were talking--we didn't trust his word) that the dose starts out at 25 to 30 mg. per person--depends on how heavy of a user they are/were of opiates and or heroin.........He used both. He started out at 30 mg.

After 4 months he was up to 130 mg. and still climbing. He tested positive for Xanax FIVE different times in 6 weeks. The clinic did NOTHING but "fuss" at him. He had his files sealed so they were no longer able to talk to me about him............He was 21 and knew it all. I was 47 and knew nothing.

When I found out this, I went into the clinic and into his counselors office. She told me she could not speak to me. I told her FINE. I would do all the talking. She could listen. I told her that my uncle was an attorney to look him up on the computer and gave him her his name. I told her that IF THEY DID NOT DO SOMETHING ABOUT him mixing the benzos with methadone I would.

If something happened to my son, I would close their doors and shut that clinic down. She didn't say a word. They next day, my son was furious. They started dropping his dose daily. His dose dropped until he cleaned up. It dropped down to 75 mg.

At this private clinic, you cannot get over 75 mg. without the doctors orders. I have made sure he has not seen the doctor since.

He cannot get medicaid in the state of North Carolina over the age of 21 IF his is not disabled (he is not) OR he does not have children out of wedlock. He has no children and is not married.

Our income is NOT an issue with him. It is his income the state counts. I don't think his $6,000 last year got in the way.

I am proud of him for getting off the heroin. BUT I believe the methadone makes a person lazy.................The 4 or 5 kids that I know that go do nothing but wait for their daily dose and eat and sleep..................I talk with their parents and we all sing the same song~!!

This time we are sticking to our guns. He will pay for the methadone. He will help pay for my gas to drive the 97 miles daily. He has until the first of the year to have a clean urine (got to get that weed out) so he can get his weekend end take homes. IF he does not do all this, then we have no choice but to cut him off.

Thanks guys,
Kim

This clinic is unbelievable!! The one I go to does not tolerate benzo's in your system!! The doctor is extremely strict. I can not believe he failed that many tests and got "fussed" at. Where I go, we get ONE WARNING if you test positive for benzo's. After that your phases will get dropped or you must go to "classes" which cost $800. Basically, if you do not make the classes if you get to that point, they rapid detox you and you're outta there. Wow. Anyway, I admire you for sticking to your guns. He's lucky he didn't stroke out just dropping like that, especially with no type of blood pressure pills. I hope things get better for you and your family.

[EricaMarie]

Originally Posted by newyorkgal

Dear Kim, You're making the right decision making your son be responsible for himself. There is no reason you should continue to pay his way especially if he refuses to do even the minimum to get take home.
I have to take issue with your statement that methadone makes people lazy. Not true at all. Its the person, not the methadone. While I was on methadone, I had a family including two kids who grew up to be successful, I worked as a legal assistant/paralegal. I was on the program with professionals from all walks of life, a nurse, a cop, businesspeople, etc., together with people who weren't interested in changing at all. If you still have the drug addict mentality and aren't serious about getting your life together after heroin, you will be lazy and do nothing but you can't make a blanket statement like that. Methadone has no secret ingredient that makes one lazy. There are people not on any drug at all who sit home all day watching TV. You just can't generalize about anything. Methadone is a good drug for addicts who have exhausted all other options. If a person wants to change their life for the better, they can do so while on a methadone program.

Just to commend and support you, that was VERY WELL SAID. I'm on 100 mg and am now a wonderful mother, got my personal training certification, work out, etc. It's YOUR choice if you want to live life to the fullest and make that change or be lazy, do nothing, sleep all day, and blame it on the methadone.

[newyorkgal]

thank you erica... the program i used to be on was the same way. They gave you two chances with urines and then off you went to that nasty rapid detox. My program was $20 a week and the staff was caring, I did real well. THere is jsut too much of a stigma attached to it which is why I switched to subutex. Because there are those people who buy extra bottles to get high, sell their bottles, take benzos and bring in someone elses urine, everyone gets lumped into the same category. It's not really fair as alot of people are very successful, you are evidence. I'm really glad you're do ing so well.