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Want to ask Robert_325 a question
  1. #1
    Liz321 is offline Junior Member
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    Default Want to ask Robert_325 a question

    Hi,

    I was following along with a couple of threads in which you posted your experiences with Suboxone. I would like to talk to you and wondered if you were still on the boards and available?

    Thanks...

    New Member Liz

  2. #2
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    All you have to do is post your question and I'll answer as soon as I can. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  3. #3
    Liz321 is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Robert,

    I just found this website this morning. I've been looking for information to help our son to get off oxycotin and alcohol and percocet. He wants very much to get off the pills and everything and get back to being healthy, but right now, I think he is scared, and not necessarily thinking straight either.

    He fell off the wagon with alcohol after Christmas, caught himself and stopped drinking again for about a month. Then he told us last weekend, that he started taking oxycotin again 10 days ago. He told us when we had no idea. He made an appt w a counselor for next week, who he's been seeing and at his last appt asked him for Suboxone. He had to send him to a different doctor for it and he has an appt today.

    I don't know how many pills he's taking. I assume when he sees the doc today they will go over that to determine the dose. My son wants to stay on it only as long as possible. I would rather he didn't take any at all, but he tried stopping when he ran out of pills three days ago and by that night went out and bought 5 more to get him through to his suboxone appt.

    I don't think he is planning well enough how to get through this. He tries to stay home alone and do it too. Tried medicating himself w beer to take the edge of withdrawal symptoms. We talked to him that day 5x on the phone and he told us he wasn't feeling too bad. He was a little headachy and light headed at first, but by supper time, he still thought he was doing okay. So I don't know what made him go and get more pills.

    We are trying to decide what the best course of action is at this point. He has only been on the pills for 2 weeks and I think that if we can just get him to a comfortable place, we can help him put some structure and routine in with some of the suggestions made here, but is that what we should do?

    Any input you could offer I would appreciate. I've read many of the threads where you adviced people on how to taper with suboxone and I felt like maybe I should just support his effort to do that. It really worries me that he will be exposing himself to yet another drug though. I thought your experiences and suggestions made a lot of sense to me, so I would find your input very helpful.

    Thanks...
    Liz

  4. #4
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Liz ..... I can certainly appreciate your concern for your son. He is lucky to have you in his corner. Is there any chance he would get on here so I could talk with him directly? Would he listen to me? I could be SOOO much more effective working directly with him even though I know you have the very best of intentions.

    How much oxycontin and percs is he taking daily and for how long has he been doing it? And how old is he? Same questions with the alcohol? If the alcohol use is bad enough that can be worse than the pills.

    I have no problem doing anything I can to help him but I need all the info on him you can give me, plus it would be a more solid effort if he would get behind this and participate with me. You can only do so much, he has to do this himself.

    Be careful with these sub drs. They take an 8 hour class to get certifiied to write sub scripts and most of them will put him on anywhere from 16mg up to begin with. RUN FROM THOSE DRS!!! I can induct him and have him stable on less then 6mg usually. I have inducted lots of people at 2-3mg. I've done this for years, probably a thousand times. So I'm not very confident in what I've seen out of lots of sub drs. But if he could get a prescription I could work with him right here and we could have him totally clean, including being off the subs in a couple months. I know how to do this.

    Read this following link. I devised this process when I got clean on subs after using 35 years. I've now been clean for almost 9 years and it took me six weeks with the subs. LOTS of people have used this process successfully. I even know several drs that follow this protocol now. I was taking TONS more opiates than your son I assure you. Read the link and let me know what you think, and please answer my previous questions. I have to run an errand but will be back shortly. Have had an awful week personally with my fibro and I have to pick up some meds for myself at the pharmacy, but will be back in thirty minutes. Hope this helps. God bless.

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  5. #5
    Liz321 is offline Junior Member
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    Robert, so sorry you are struggling with fibro, have had some experience with that too, no fun.

    I can certainly ask my son if he would like to get on and talk to you about it. I think he is not the best typist, but he may be able to manage well enough. He has already gone to his appointment with the doctor who is going to give him the prescription for the Saboxone. Having already read some earlier posts, I mentioned the forums to my son before he left and told him that I thought you were supposed to stop the oxy for 2 days before taking it. He was going to ask the doctor about that. He had not heard that. I also told him about the low dose, short duration and the tapering off.

    I can not answer the questions you asked with any accuracy so you are right, it's important to get all the information correctly.

    So, I will talk to him when he gets home later, which might be after supper by the time he is back, the doctor visit is an hour away and he'll be coming back in rush hour. My husband went with him, to ask questions and get the directions clear.

    So, I will come and post whether he wants to get on here himself. Or give him the link later so he can get on himself. Thanks very much. :-)

  6. #6
    Liz321 is offline Junior Member
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    Hi again,

    I went to the links you provided and read all that information and better understand what you are trying to accomplish, I think. I did have a question about another thread I read earlier about tapering off oxy without the saboxone. Is that something that is no longer recommended?

    I guess I wanted to at least know if there is a reasonable alternative to the saboxone that would be more 'natural' and wouldn't require taking another medication. And use vitamins and saunas and exercise too. Oh, and vegetable juicing or a raw food diet.

    Did you ever try other methods of detoxing before you did the Saboxone?

  7. #7
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liz321 View Post
    Hi again,

    I went to the links you provided and read all that information and better understand what you are trying to accomplish, I think. I did have a question about another thread I read earlier about tapering off oxy without the saboxone. Is that something that is no longer recommended?

    I guess I wanted to at least know if there is a reasonable alternative to the saboxone that would be more 'natural' and wouldn't require taking another medication. And use vitamins and saunas and exercise too. Oh, and vegetable juicing or a raw food diet.

    Did you ever try other methods of detoxing before you did the Saboxone?



    I always suggest a natural taper followed by a cold turkey detox first if the person can handle it. It depends on your son's stickability and attitude. I was not personally good at tapering on my own off my drugs of choice. I would do well a few days then blow it. So it just depends on him.

    Check out the Thomas Recipe for opiate detox. It uses natural ingredients and is effective. Here is the link. Hope it helps. God bless.

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...html#post68110
    Last edited by Robert_325; 02-25-2011 at 05:13 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  8. #8
    Liz321 is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Robert,

    I just wanted to update. My son got back from his appointment and I was able to talk to him about our discussion. I went to the link you provided of how you help people to determine their dose and read him the whole page. He seems a little reluctant to changing what the doctor who prescribed the suboxane told him to do. He gave him a prescription for 16mg a day, in 8mg tablets. We spent some time discussing and I think once I read him what you had to say about the lowest amount that was effective he seems to be coming around to doing it that way. We talked about keeping 8mg as the maximum. I printed him up the worksheet that has the checklist for symptoms so he can determine what degree of withdrawal he's experiencing. And by that point, he was exhausted and it's been a long day, he just wanted to go home and go to bed and we're going to pick it up again tomorrow morning when we're both fresh. Glad it's a Saturday!

    He's VERY determined to get off all this stuff now and to use the saboxone. I think when I first suggested using a lower dose than the 16mg, he may have thought using the lower dose would allow him to experience more symptoms, but once I read what you had to say, he realized that the first day, you start taking the dose when you are feeling bad and keep taking small increments until your symptoms start to improve, so I think he is getting it now, that he will be taking enough to manage the withdrawal.

    So...thanks for your time and help. I hope you are taking care of yourself and get to feeling better. I will be back tomorrow with more questions, I'm sure.

  9. #9
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Liz...... go back and read my previous posts. The goofy sub dr did EXACTLY what I told you that I feared would happen. I assure you if your son listens to the dr and starts taking 16mg, doing it a long time like the dr will suggest, he will make a suboxone addict out of your son. That is probably worse than what he is already into. I can only say that I warned you and it's happening EXACTLY like I said it would. That should tell you that I know what I'm talking about. I pray that you don't allow your son to become a victim of this clown of a dr. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  10. #10
    Liz321 is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Robert,

    I definitely did notice that he was prescribing the amount that you expected he might and I already had faith that you did know what you were talking about. :-) I think my son often will try to find an approach this is simple and uncomplicated, so just following the doctor’s directions feels that way to him, I’m sure and he doesn’t want to do the wrong thing. It’s hard to reject a doctor’s instructions, when they are such authority figures. Especially when you are young and haven’t had a lot of experience with doctors.

    He’s decided to come over and spend tomorrow with us and we will have a good opportunity to get the plan worked out. I think if we can understand the process and things go as expected along the way, it will give him more confidence.

    I am a little unclear about how exactly to follow the ‘induction’ as described. I did understand that he should start by stopping the substances he has been taking. Everything. Then he will begin withdrawal and start to notice symptoms at which time he should check the chart to see whether he is having mild symptoms or moderate and should try to add up the points and once he is above 26, is when he should take the suboxone.

    Since he has 8mg tablets, he was thinking to cut them in quarters and take the first dose as a 1/4 of a pill, which would be 2mg, then cut the remaining quarters in half making them 1mg segments and take those at hour intervals until what point? Until his symptoms improve? Or? That part seems a little unclear.

    Is it possible that he would go through the entire first day without being symptomatic enough to reach 26 and end up being better off to wait until the next day to start the suboxone? Or even in the middle of the night, if he gets worse? So if he took his last pill tonight before bed, would he expect to go through a whole day of withdrawal tomorrow and wait until Sunday to take the suboxone? And might he have trouble sleeping, as I’ve read many do. And if that were the case, we were considering trying to use 1mg of melatonin to help in that regard and if that doesn’t help to just ride it out and rest and not sleep. Does that sound right?

    I have a feeling you’re going to tell me that it depends on the quantity of pills that he was taking and I’m not sure he wants to post that. He is in his late 20s. I will try to find out tomorrow morning what strength the pills were that he was taking and how often he was taking them. I’m pretty sure it was for 2 weeks or there abouts.

    I think if we can get through the initial withdrawal symptoms and get through the first day of saboxone with a low dosage, that the rest of the process will be easier.

    I’ll check back in the morning.

  11. #11
    Liz321 is offline Junior Member
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    Good morning,

    Robert, I think I may have been saying that I am planning on helping my son to follow your plan in a round about way and maybe that wasn't clear. I agree that it would be ideal if he would get online and talk to you one on one, but like everyone, he has his limitations and that is one of them. So, the best I can do, is to try to get the correct information for him that will increase his chances of being successful.

    He has already been persuaded to take no more than 8mg of the saboxone and I would REALLY really like him to take no more than 4 mg, but would like to understand better how to use that little, so I can explain it to him so that he can understand it. I definitely don't want to do it wrong and he has some unexpected result from doing it this way and then feels like he should have done it the way the doctor told him to.

    I am still unclear about how to determine the correct day's dose and whether I understand correctly that he has to wait to take the suboxone until he is at 26 on the withdrawal evaluation sheet even if it means waiting for the second day of not having any pills?

    I'm guessing that the amount of pills he was taking is important in determining the right dose and that we should keep reporting back how he is doing so we can tell if the dose is having the desired effect. I'm going to be talking to him at 10am and I will get that information about the amount of pills.

    I do appreciate your help, very much... thanks.

  12. #12
    Liz321 is offline Junior Member
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    Hi,

    I was just reading around the forum and saw another recent post where you explained how bad your shoulder has been and it's keeping you off the forums. It must be stressful, to be in pain and not think you can take anything. Wish I had a suggestion. I usually have reactions to lots of medications and after surgery on my kidney, they tried me on 6 different pain meds and I couldn't tolerate any of them, so they just sent me home on tylenol. So I rarely take a pill. I use 'ice' or 'heat' for everything. Toothaches are the only thing I will take something for. But I haven't had sport injuries or chronic pain, which is entirely different, so I doubt that would help you. Hope you find some relief soon.

    My son took his last pill last night and so far today, he is still sleeping, so we are just playing it by ear. I have read over the induction page repeatedly and looked over the thread where you instructed 'sickandtired69' recently on how to proceed and I'm just going to do the best I can with that information.

    Hope you feel better and take care of yourself.

  13. #13
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liz321 View Post
    Hi,

    I was just reading around the forum and saw another recent post where you explained how bad your shoulder has been and it's keeping you off the forums. It must be stressful, to be in pain and not think you can take anything. Wish I had a suggestion. I usually have reactions to lots of medications and after surgery on my kidney, they tried me on 6 different pain meds and I couldn't tolerate any of them, so they just sent me home on tylenol. So I rarely take a pill. I use 'ice' or 'heat' for everything. Toothaches are the only thing I will take something for. But I haven't had sport injuries or chronic pain, which is entirely different, so I doubt that would help you. Hope you find some relief soon.

    My son took his last pill last night and so far today, he is still sleeping, so we are just playing it by ear. I have read over the induction page repeatedly and looked over the thread where you instructed 'sickandtired69' recently on how to proceed and I'm just going to do the best I can with that information.

    Hope you feel better and take care of yourself.



    Thank you for the concern. I can take something for pain if I choose. I'm actually doing better today. After almost 9 years clean I just don't care anything about resorting to pain meds anymore. I choose to not take them unless it was for a surgery, something very bad. I've been taking lots of Ibuprofen and Prednisone, a muscle relaxer and I'll be okay. I try to pretend that opiates don't exist as I hate them so badly. They nearly killed me more than once so that was enough for me. I'm living on borrowed time already as it is. But in the event of a surgery where I had no choice I would not hesitate to take whatever medication was called for. I no longer have any problem with opiate addiction and never will again. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    Hey Liz
    Tina aka sickandtired. Robert will help you as best he can, I can promise you that, and so far, every direction he's given me has been good advice, I have to say. I am stabalizing on 8mg, but Im a long-time user (15 years), and Ive been on subs over a year now. I can tell you one thing, Robert is absolutely correct telling you that the sub doctors prescribe WAY too much sub for each individual. Youre son will probably not need what the doc says. I was surprised that I needed only 8mg, but Im trying to do what Robert says, because I really want to be done. Im scared to stop taking them all together, but i can make wahtever choice I want. I just have to live with it then. If your son hasn't taken or been on the subs very long, his detox is likely to be easier than say, mine. You never know, though.
    Hope all goes well
    Try to get him to post, I bet it will be easier for Robert to help if he does.
    All my heart
    Tina

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    Liz321 is offline Junior Member
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    Glad you are doing better Robert!

    Tina, I was following along on the thread you were on and really amazed at having to take care of small children and go through all that. I hope you are able to really see that happy future that is waiting for you on the other side of all that! Thanks for the post, I appreciate it. :-)

    We have our son at our house at this point. He had his last pill last night and slept through the night and off and on most of the day until about 2pm. We went over the worksheet for symptoms with him and he only scored a three. I’m wondering if this is the calm before the storm? It’s only been about 24 hours, and I read somewhere that the first two days are the easiest and the third day things change drastically. I guess we will find out soon enough.

    I’ll be back to report where we are at. Thanks!

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    There are two reasons for requiring that score of 26 on the COWS worksheet. First you won't go into precipitated w/d if you score a 26 minimum before beginning the induction and secondly if you never score a 26 (and some people don't) then you don't ever need to start on the subs.

    Once your son is a few days into this if he hasn't scored high enough yet he should just ride it out and he'll be totally clean in less than a week. Then he wouldn't have to deal with the subs at all. That would be the ideal situation obviously. Keep that in mind. And don't be too easy on him scoring.

    If he's really sick enough to start the subs there will be NO doubt in your mind. He will be incredibly ill in w/d or DON'T let him even start on them. Then he has one less drug to have to deal with. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    Liz321 is offline Junior Member
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    I was hoping you were going to say something along those lines, Robert, but, I'm trying not to get my hopes up that will be the case. That would just be too good to be true. We'll see how tonight and tomorrow goes. I'll be back when something changes. Hopefully not until tomorrow.


    Thanks!

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Liz ....... I will say a prayer for your son in church tomorrow that he NEVER has to use the subs. I SOOO hate to see a kid on that stuff. He needs to work this out without adding more drugs to the picture if possible. You know I want to help him. I'll be home mid-afternoon. Let me know how he's doing then. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  19. #19
    Liz321 is offline Junior Member
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    Another update....

    It’s been a quiet time of it to this point. Our son slept most of the night last night again, and has been up since mid morning. He has been eating fine and drinking fresh vegetable juices. Thought that he felt better than yesterday. We went over the symptoms checklist with him again today and aside from some yawning, sneezing, body aches, he’s not complaining about anything else. His pulse was 72 today. I’m wondering if it’s possible that he was taking the pills for a short enough period of time that it has been less of a problem and he has nipped it in the bud? We have an appointment with a counselor tomorrow and I hope that the symptoms won’t erupt tomorrow morning suddenly and require our rescheduling the appointment.

    So, we’re encouraged and hopeful. If he can get through this unscathed it will be a wonderful fresh start for him. He had gotten to the point where he felt that he might b able to drink socially and in moderation just after Christmas and was experimenting. He’s told us that he can now see clearly how quickly things deteriorated and then the pills were next. He sees that he will never be able to drink moderately. So maybe some good can come out of it.

    Still expecting tomorrow to be worse, so we’ll just have to wait it out.

    Robert, thank you for your prayers, and all your help. It really means a LOT to me to come here and find someone who is so committed to helping others. It’s very reassuring and has reduced my stress to know I had someone in our corner that knew what he was doing. It’s a gift and I can’t thank you enough. To have been free of drugs yourself for nine years and still be here offering help to others says a lot. I can see how many people here appreciate your help too.

    I’ll be back later tonight with another update after dinner. Thanks :-)

  20. #20
    Liz321 is offline Junior Member
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    Well, another symptom just started showing up. He's starting to feel clammy and looks a little worried. So, something more is coming.

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    Liz
    Opiates are the devil, I swear. I have good kids, and a few kind friends who love me. or I would have been in trouble. Thank God my children didnt miss a beat! Thanks for your kind words. As a mother, I cannot imagine going through what you are. I can tell you that people's bodies process things differently, so keep an eye on him, and like Rbrt said, if he doesnt need to go the sub route, that would be best. I wouldnt want anyone to take these darn things unless they were totally desparate. They are helpful in my case. I can't do the cold turkey withdrawal. Its too much. You'll definately know if your son needs the subs or not. I'll be praying for you and thinking about you and your family..
    Tina

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    Liz321 is offline Junior Member
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    The end of Day 2 and things are still quiet here. Still has a pulse of 72, mild degree of a few symptoms, still has an appetite. Tomorrow will be the day to watch, I guess.

    I’ll be back in the morning to update again.

    Tina, you are very lucky to have friends that care about you and children that need you. It’s a great motivation, I know. I hope you are able to find all the strength you need to get back to a healthy life. Thanks for your prayers and thoughts, too. It is very much appreciated.

    :-)

  23. #23
    tbeit is offline New Member
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    Hi Im new Ok my delemma besides my spelling is I was professionally detoxed and when I came home I took 16 mg of sub guilt gilore ok next day 8mg for 3 days then 4 for one now today 2 in your opinion am I going to have wd again.I was on poppy tea for a year before this mess.Thanks for any opinions

  24. #24
    Liz321 is offline Junior Member
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    Morning of Day Three and things are looking EXCELLENT. Our son slept through the night, Got up and took a shower, had breakfast and when asked how he was feeling, he was feeling better than yesterday. He had no clamminess, no tremors, no anxiety, no restlessness, no GI problems, no sweating. He did look a little tired when he came out of the shower and when I asked if he were he said yes, but then corrected that and said he felt depressed.

    So I'm thinking he has really dodged a bullet here, in comparison to most of the posts I've read over the weekend. I do wonder and all I can think is that because he was taking the pills a short period of time, that the addictive-ness was minimal? I know it's odd to say, but I wonder if it might have been too easy. Does that make any sense?

    BUT, I think the psychological aspect of addiction is still going to be a fight for him. He's at our house, and I'm concerned that when he goes home, he will have triggers in his apartment because he had been using there and not here. Or that he might have 'saved' some of the substances. I don't want to let down my guard and let him slip back after getting to such a great result already.

    Thank you for all the prayers and concern!! I think we are doing really GREAT and much better than I was expecting. I just want to keep the ball rolling and encourage him but not sure what to expect from here on in. I don't want to push him too much, but I would think making a LOT of changes in behavior and habit are going to have to happen, but what about the depression? Is that something that will improve on it's own over time?

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    I suggest that he get involved in NA immediately, get a sponsor, work the 12 steps of recovery. He should be going to meetings daily at least for a few months. He needs LOTS more than a few days clean. Most people relapse if they don't follow up getting clean with some solid support group of some kind, whatever works for him. Just my thoughts for you to consider. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  26. #26
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbeit View Post
    Hi Im new Ok my delemma besides my spelling is I was professionally detoxed and when I came home I took 16 mg of sub guilt gilore ok next day 8mg for 3 days then 4 for one now today 2 in your opinion am I going to have wd again.I was on poppy tea for a year before this mess.Thanks for any opinions



    What fool told you to take subs that way? This is what I have suggested for years on this forum successfully. This is not a one week program. Read the link.

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  27. #27
    Liz321 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks Robert for that idea. I'm convinced that it will take a LOT of support too and we're going to keep working on that. Today he was feeling pretty depressed but he did get up and get a shower, walked out in the yard in the morning and later got dressed and went to the counseling appointment with us. Tomorrow he has another counseling appointment.

    I told him that I thought it was a big adjustment for his body to make to go from pills to no pills and it's going to take some time for his body/mind to make the adjustment. I think he did a great job to get to this point, to catch himself and nip this in the bud before it became a huge mountain of a withdrawal problem. I would think that even the depression end of it, will get better each day and especially in the first week, I suppose he should not be expecting too much.

    I was also looking at the library for books on the subject and see a couple that look helpful. One is called 'Pocket Sponsor' that I want to get out for him.

    I wonder if there is a thread anywhere on this forum, that people share what helped them get through the first month. Recovery tips or something like that?

    Thanks,
    Liz

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    GenRx is offline Junior Member
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    I don't know how old your son is Liz, but from what I've seen with a lot of younger people (like myself) is that AA/NA or other variations on the 12-Step Program don't really work well for a lot of younger people. I would explore all the recovery options out there and have your son choose which one fits him best. There's all kinds of different approaches to recovery. It's all about what works best for the individual and what the individual's goals are in recovery.

    Besides 12-step programs these are some to check out:
    SMART Recovery
    Life Ring Secular Recovery
    Rational Recovery
    Any sort of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy that focuses on Substance Dependence

  29. #29
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenRx View Post
    I don't know how old your son is Liz, but from what I've seen with a lot of younger people (like myself) is that AA/NA or other variations on the 12-Step Program don't really work well for a lot of younger people. I would explore all the recovery options out there and have your son choose which one fits him best. There's all kinds of different approaches to recovery. It's all about what works best for the individual and what the individual's goals are in recovery.

    Besides 12-step programs these are some to check out:
    SMART Recovery
    Life Ring Secular Recovery
    Rational Recovery
    Any sort of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy that focuses on Substance Dependence



    GenRx ...... There are LOTS of support groups out there. I agree with you that finding the "RIGHT" 12 step group for someone (in possibly their late teens) can be a challenge as lots of the group members may be a little older, I wouldn't blow off all 12 step programs. Regardles, whatever works best for the individual is what is most important. And consistent regular participation/attendance is imperative for positive results in any of the recovery programs whether they are 12 step or not.

    If a person is inclined to participate in a Christian-based program Celebrate Recovery actually has the highest success ratio out there. Check out your local churches on one of the search engines. It's a great program and emcompasses all addictions and dependencies, not just drugs and alcohol. Just a thought that might help. It's a great program for the right people who are Christians or inclined to be searching for something in that area of beliefs. And it has a lot younger group generally than AA for example where lots of people have 20 plus years in the program.

    In reality most recovery programs work if we take what is positive from the program and forget that which we don't relate to. Bottom line is most all of us that are struggling with STAYING clean need a good live support group. The numbers of those who relapse prove that without a doubt.

    We can always find something wrong with anything. Main thing is doing something positive for ourselves and realizing nothing is perfect. But we always get lots more out of most any of these programs than we put into them as long as we stay away from the cults. God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 03-01-2011 at 04:50 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  30. #30
    Join Date
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    PA
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    Hi Liz
    I just wanted to see how your son is doing. I hope he is well, and I hope you, as a mother, gets some much needed R and R .
    I wanted to thank YOU for your inspiring words, in the midst of your own family issues. I am feeling better than the first few days, but still not great yet. I think the warm spring weather will help me get through the taper I am hoping to do.
    Thank the Good Lord your son got out as he did! Please tell him that IF there is another time, it will NOT be as easy. It gets worse and worse, every time. Then it consumes you. If he will go to meetings, I can honestly say that the 12 step programs do work, if you put in the effort. Honesty Openmindedness and Willingness. Thats all it takes, really. I had 3 years clean in NA, once. I sure wish I would have stuck around, now...
    Wishing the best for you
    Tina

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