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Unexpected Suboxone Withdrawal
  1. #211
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moving4ward View Post
    hi all,
    I've read this entire thread before even attempting to post my questions/story - just so I don't come into this forum somewhat uninformed. Before anything else, you're all extremely brave, tough as nails, and inspiring... Particularly for those who have no one to turn to or talk to, which is the case for me.

    I just hope someone's still out there listening since there doesn't seem to be a recent update.

    Anyways, let me just start off by saying that I do not mean to insult anyone with my story, and what I mean by that is my usage of opiates and particularly subs is not at the same level as most or maybe all in this forum. However, I still admit to being an addict and need and want to live a real life so I thankfully found this thread to hopefully help. I also need to admit that no one, except my dealer, knows of my past usage at all. Not friends, or my gf who I live with.. Which just kills me but also strangely inspires me to live my life as Im supposed to- drug free!

    I've been a daily user of vics and percs for about 4 years now. Throw in a bit of roxy usage here and there more recently but really just v and p. The difference with most people here is my usage on a daily basis has wavered btwn 20-40 at most 50 mgs total (so maybe 3-5 7.5mg pills a day). I would actually b pretty cautious of that amount...mainly feeling a "danger zone" when approaching 40mgs or more in a day. In other words, tried to at least keep it in check somewhat. But it's been 4 yrs! Ive gone thru wd twice before in those yrs, the first time being uninformed as to the storm that was coming, the second time tapering down somewhat before getting hit..so not as bad but still bad, ya know? Anyway, I guess this is my third go around and I want it to be my last! I'm 30 and this is not how I envisioned my life!

    I suppose this sounds more like a post that should be in another category but I do have a relevant question. So I was down to doing about 15-20mgs for about 4 days and finally did my last 20 mgs and stopped. However I had a big sales presentation and interview for a great job opp 2 days later! I knew the wd was going to hit which was not an option but I also committed to stopping the opiates...it was sort of now or never, since I felt ok and committed to stopping. So the friend/dealer offered me 2 sub strips 8mg. He told me to eat half one day and half the next. 24 hrs after I ate my last vics I ate 4mg of the strip. Did not know what the heck to expect. I felt great! Almost too great where I was getting really high off of it at my current job. Mind you the next day was my interview/presentation. But yeah it completely held me over for at least that entire day. The next morning, another 24 hrs later, I decided to eat 2mgs and not b withdrawing during the interview. I felt good again but ultimately it made me a bit shaky during the presentation, a bit cloudy maybe? Next day rolls around and I ate the last part of the strip, 2mgs. Felt fine all day. So that was 3 days ago and I haven't opened or honestly, desire to eat the 2nd strip I have. I just needed to get by the opiate wd essentially. But I def feel the symptoms today, achy body all around, uneasiness, slight lack of appetite.. All not extreme but not super mild either. And really last night since I had some body anxiety causing bad sleep. So here I am today, day 3, not sure what to think or do since my usage and situation is a little different. But addict am I still! Or hopefully former!

    Sorry for the lengthy thread but I needed to get it all out there since again, no one in the world to talk to. I am afraid of losing it all if I tell anyone, and not sure if I'm as brave as jav and others here. I come home to the greatest gal in the world who's ready to greet me with a smile, and I'm in a freakindazy high... I'm doing this for her also, I tear just thinking about it!

    So can anyone give me insight on what to expect here on out? I can't smoke weed due to possible drug testing for new job, although I'm a fan! I do have a few Valium saved and might have to use it for the late night anxiety. But honestly I took the subs thinking it will just skip the opiate wd and I'm free! Not that easy Im finding out as I write this. I'm a little worried, scared, etc as to how long this might last as I'm hearing everyone's stories!

    Please help! U rock!




    You've done great! If you need the valium for a few days that is okay. I wouldn't take anymore subs at this point as you're almost past the effects from the dose of opiates you have been taking. Stick to your plan and don't take anything else. If you need a valium for a few days you'll have this licked by Christmas. You're almost there now! Don't let anything stop you.

    I'm here if I can help but you sound like you have this licked. All that is left is a few more days and you're done! Then you just have to fend off anymore temptation, and they are sure to come. So be on the defense! Let me know if you need my help with ANYTHING! Merry Christmas, as it will be a clean one, and God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  2. #212
    Moving4ward is offline New Member
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    Hmm I guess my reply didn't go thru properly so I'll jus give it a quick shot again...

    Robert, I forgot to mention you in my post before. With all that you graciously do, I really consider you a remarkable individual. The fact that you are not able to be seen and only read, yet you literally save lives just mazes me, so put simply thank you.

    Also just wanted to get a few quick details... Do you think I'll be facing the same level of symptoms tomorrow and the next day or so? I'm guessing this wd I'm feeling is about the opiates and not the subs? Maybe both? It's just very tough for me to actually get thru a day of work and I just want to have a better idea of what to expect this week. I've been drinkinwater all day every day for a while now and poppin some anvils for the hard pain but other than that I guess not much else I can do but man up.

    Since I've been literally abusing my body with reckless abandon, this is a little payback as I see it... Thats how I keep things in perspective a bitm and try to stay sane during the roughest points. No one to blame but my selfish addiction to getting high.

    As for the aftermath, I def recognize the relapse monster is waiting fir me but Im ready for him too. I've unfortunately failed twice already but this is it. Too much at stake, and this is for my loved ones at this point.

    Anyway, guys stay positive as hard as it will be and feel...which is uneasiness, pain, emotional hell..just to start. But the light will always b shining at that tunnel exit - it's up to us to want to choose a true life and do whatever the heck we have to in order to reach it!

    Happy and healthy holidays everyone!

  3. #213
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    I looked for your post last night and it didn't go through. Don't know why that happened. Thanks for the kind words. I've done this for a long time and we can handle it together.

    Don't anticipate the worst. I will get you through this with the least amount of discomfort possible. If you follow along with what I ask to the letter it won't be that bad. We just have to work together. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  4. #214
    FreeMe2011 is offline Member
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    Hi MovingFwd,

    Welcome and of course you've come to the right place. Your professional career sounds a bit like mine and for me the hardest part is there is never a good time to wd, ever. I'm confident this is why I was on the subs for 10 months and to be honest I wish I had found this forum 2 weeks in because I would have been off them. I like your approach but know that even 2mg of that stuff is really powerful which I'm sure Robert will run down with you.

    I jumped at 0.5mg and skipped days three times at that level. I still had a bit of wd, the worst being the dreaded can't get comfortable / RLS at night. To be honest I'm still going through it a bit but mainly waking up at night and less of the physical symptoms. it is not as bad as I thought though so don't get super scared; I know that was one of the reasons I was on so long. The main thing I've had to overcome is just the act of taking a pill 4-5 times a day and of course I have legitimate pain issues so that is all back in effect but I too see the light and living without the pill seems like the ultimate prize for me.

    With the subs it was "I can't believe this little tiny chip even does anything" and so it was hard for me to get past 4mg and then 2mg, etc but believe me it does. You won't go without some pain and I agree you have to pay to play at some point so your attitude in all this is on par with what my thinking is/was. For me it was always a matter of will power. You have this little pill (or in your case strip) that can help you not feel bad and that is a hard thing to overcome and not take. The subs, for me, also gave me a lot of energy to work and be with family, that was hard to overcome too. At least for me, Its a huge test of will and I can't say that I was a master but hopefully you will suceed where I failed at times.

    I've been sub free now for close to 25 days or so. Best of luck and keep posting. The people here help and are knowledgable and have all gone through it. I found a lot of comfort and help here.

    best,
    FM11
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  5. #215
    Moving4ward is offline New Member
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    Hey thx Robert and fm, it's approaching noon day 4 post subs and I have slight aches but progress seems to be made. The Valium last night seemed to help as I got more straight hrs of sleep as apposed to waking up every hour... Although still waking up 1-2 hrs earlier than I normally would. Appetite getting slightly better, sneezing still there but I feel better when getting a sneeze out lol!

    So besides the slight aches and fatigue, today was better than yesterday overall...so far. I have my final interview tomorrow and I feel good about going in as I am and rock it!

    Thx again guys for the under rated encouraging words and guidance. It means more than I make it sound in these little messages.
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  6. #216
    Kat53graves is offline New Member
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    Robert 325, Are you still helping people withdraw from Suboxone? These posts are from last year so I don't know how/where to find you. Anyone out there....today is 1/25/2012... does anyone know how to get Subutex from a free clinic? The only way I can get them is illegally and that's never sure and expensive. I'm trying to afford a dr. but this system really sucks. A patent and the govt only allowing certain drs and then allowing them a certain amount of patients. I can't afford insurance. Robert has given me hope as far as doing an induction and then getting off but I'm trying to find a way to get the amount necessary to do that. Please, anyone know of a way? I live in TN but can travel to KY, NC, VA, GA. Thank you to anyone that responds.

  7. #217
    FreeMe2011 is offline Member
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    Hi Kat,

    I know how scared you are because I've been there. You'll have to post more information on your history and what your trying to get off of I would think. Unclear if you are coming off of subs or some other opiate.

    One good start on the clinic thing is maybe go to suboxone.com. I remember there were a lot of resources there and some hotlines to help.

    Best of luck and let us know.
    FM11

  8. #218
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    Kat,

    I found my Sub doc via an online directory too, but don't have any illusions about getting it for free. Most insurance plans don't cover it anyway so it's a cash deal for all of us. I hope things go ok for you.

  9. #219
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kat53graves View Post
    Robert 325, Are you still helping people withdraw from Suboxone? These posts are from last year so I don't know how/where to find you. Anyone out there....today is 1/25/2012... does anyone know how to get Subutex from a free clinic? The only way I can get them is illegally and that's never sure and expensive. I'm trying to afford a dr. but this system really sucks. A patent and the govt only allowing certain drs and then allowing them a certain amount of patients. I can't afford insurance. Robert has given me hope as far as doing an induction and then getting off but I'm trying to find a way to get the amount necessary to do that. Please, anyone know of a way? I live in TN but can travel to KY, NC, VA, GA. Thank you to anyone that responds.


    I am still here and you can post on this thread and I'll see your posts. Be glad to help you once you get the subs. Let me know.

    Insurance companies are all different. When I did this my insurance paid the dr as well as paying for the meds. It just varies with companies, but after spending many years in the financial services industry, addiction is considered a mental problem and is usually treated the same as any other illness unless you have some kind of little individual policy. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  10. #220
    Donewthislife is offline New Member
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    Robert I PRAY you are still around and providing advice since I really need help.

    I was clean and sober for 352 days from a 15month long, 600mg Oxycodone habit. I wound up picking up for 6days two weeks ago. I used a total of 15 Oxycodone tabs insufflated over the six days and caught a habit. Instead of going thru withdrawals like a "bigboy" I decided to call my doctor and get Sunoxone. I know stupid move, but I had some family function coming up and I couldn't be ill for it. I got a script of 10 8mg tabs. I took 4mg immediately after receiving the script from the pharmacist. I then took another 3mg the following day, then 2mg the 3rd and 4th day. Today is day five and I haven't taken anything. Of course I feel fine as the half life is VERY long. I know I need to be tapered off asap so I was wondering what the best way I should taper? Or do I even need a taper at this point and should just take "crumbs" for the next couple of days? I was contemplating going on Sub maintenance, but after reading the horrors of detoxing from Subs I said NO WAY, unless I was going to take them for the rest of my life. I was intrigued about Subs anti-depressant qualities, which was the only reason for my relapse. I have been battling PAWS for the past year and been on several SSRI's which haven't helped at all. I just wanted some relief from the year long battle that I had endured and just thought I could use without catching a habit. Well, I was wrong. I'm so naive when it comes to opiates and withdrawals. The only time I detoxed in the 15month run I had previously was when I entered rehab. They put me on a short Sub taper which they were giving me Catapress for anxiety and for a couple of days they gave me Utram for bodyaches. I felt like garbage for my remaining stay at the rehab but it wasn't unbearable. I never vomited or shook violently and sweated profusely, just aches and pains and anxiety, RLS chills were what I experienced mostly. SO WHAT AM I LOOKING AT in terms of withdrawals this time, with only a minor habit? I know I probably made it worse with taking the Subs, so how should I proceed? Thanks and I hope you're still around

  11. #221
    zrmoser is offline New Member
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    Hi Robert my name is Zach and im sortta in the same boat but little different storey ive been on subs for 4 plus years and my house got broken into which had all my subs and kolonipins in i take 24 mgs of sub a dy and three kolonipins and im helpless and miserable with no help im going to the doctor tomorrow and i might get a refill witth my police report but i want off these things robert if you can help p;ease please do so! Im going crazy i cant take it anymore!!

  12. #222
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrmoser View Post
    Hi Robert my name is Zach and im sortta in the same boat but little different storey ive been on subs for 4 plus years and my house got broken into which had all my subs and kolonipins in i take 24 mgs of sub a dy and three kolonipins and im helpless and miserable with no help im going to the doctor tomorrow and i might get a refill witth my police report but i want off these things robert if you can help p;ease please do so! Im going crazy i cant take it anymore!!



    Zach ...... Sure hope you get that refill!!! Four plus years at 24mg is a big fog!! Dude, what were you doing that for? I can help you but you obviously need to get your meds refilled and then let's get together. Here is a link to my sub therapy process. It's worked here for many years. How long have you been out of subs and Klonopin? If it's been several days I may be able to reinduct you at a much lower dose. We will drop that 24mg fast! How many mg of klonopin you taking a day? Read the link below and let me know tomorrow how it goes. God bless.

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  13. #223
    ibfootin is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    You've done great! If you need the valium for a few days that is okay. I wouldn't take anymore subs at this point as you're almost past the effects from the dose of opiates you have been taking. Stick to your plan and don't take anything else. If you need a valium for a few days you'll have this licked by Christmas. You're almost there now! Don't let anything stop you.

    I'm here if I can help but you sound like you have this licked. All that is left is a few more days and you're done! Then you just have to fend off anymore temptation, and they are sure to come. So be on the defense! Let me know if you need my help with ANYTHING! Merry Christmas, as it will be a clean one, and God bless.
    Hey all. i need some information on how long it takes to get off Subs

  14. #224
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibfootin View Post
    Hey all. i need some information on how long it takes to get off Subs



    Know nothing about you, what amounts or how long you've used. Impossible to answer a post like that. It's not a one-size-fits-all proposition. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  15. #225
    Angelcake1 is offline New Member
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    Hi Robert, I've been reading your posts and they are so well written and besides you being extremely credible, you're incredibly compassionate. Another poster gave me some advice, but she seemed to get too exasperated with me so now I'm asking you. I was on 16 mg. of suboxone for 5 years and wanted to GET OFF. My doctor was useless. So I began my own taper. When I got down to 2 mg rather easily, I figured I could just stop! That was a BIG mistake! It took 4 days, but on the 4th day I woke up at 2:00 am violently ill, throwing up non-stop AND diarrhea. It was SO BAD. I slipped 2 mg. under my tongue of the suboxone, but I just threw it up. I wound up in the Emergency Room at the hospital. I was totally dehydrated so had to have an IV for several hours, plus they gave me something to help stop the vomiting and diarrhea. Finally, about 3 hours later I could function again. That was 2 weeks ago. Now I'm down to 1/4 of a 2 mg. suboxone film each day, and I want to know where to go from here. I'm terrified to stop. One of your commenters said I should just start "skipping days" but the thought of that scares me too! Can you give me some advice? Your advice is EXCELLENT, and God knows I need help!

  16. #226
    va-sux is offline New Member
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    Robert. You really seem to know what your talking about....i have a lot of questions for you.....

  17. #227
    va-sux is offline New Member
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    Robert. How long before i sleep again

  18. #228
    Deadhead58 is offline New Member
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    Robert, I am on .5 to 1mg of Subs daily. Never been higher. Came off an 8 year addiction to Stadol NS. (Class IV). Suboxone is Class III. I told my Dr.s' going to Subs was a mistake as I had tapered down the Stadol NS using distilled water but they insisted. Been on .5 to 1mg Subs daily for a year & Dr.'s want me to stay there permanently. I want off all opiates which is why I went to them. Can't taper any lower without suffering MAJOR severe non-stop anxiety/panic attacks & sleeplessness. Retired and bored. Am walking daily and trying to keep busy but having weird mental withdrawal experiences upon waking. Nightmarish & can't go back to sleep. And feel too bad to be awake. ANY help is appreciated. Just want my life & sanity back. Thanks!!

  19. #229
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Deadhead, this is an old thread and Robert is retired. Can you repost in the Prescription drug addiction forum under "suboxone"? You can start a thread there and people will help you. Go to the upper left under "thread tools" and start your thread. In the meantime you need to either reinduct or stabilize on either .5 or 1mg. and not go back and forth on your doses. You need to get stable first. You should be taking the sub at the same time each day. Here is Robert's taper:

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

    Good luck and post in the suboxone thread. It's hard to find new people on old threads. Wish you luck! Will check back if you need help with the thread.

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  20. #230
    Stevebarr is offline New Member
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    Listen to the Doc.He's right on the money.

  21. #231
    Amberraes is offline New Member
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    Hi! I am new to drugs.com, but upon a google search found this thread. I would like the help of username robert. I have been seing a doctor and have been perscribed subs for seven months now. I want to stop! Help me please!

  22. #232
    thirdtime is offline New Member
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    Default Third Time ..

    Here goes nothing ... "googled" Suboxone withdrawal on my phone and randomly clicked this thread a few days ago ... glad I did ... So this is an ongoing serious problem dating back 8 years ... I am very self-aware of why everything started and also the timing of relapses ... this time around I want to be done for good and try if possible to reduce the withdrawal symptoms overall ... I have already taken steps to do so by telling practically all of my family, as well as close friends ... I would isolate myself from everyone and everything this time around and basically lived in a little bubble, but a very high functioning one ... So, during this span of 8 years I have gotten completely clean for stretches of approximately 4 months and 2 months ... 1st time I was taking (12)-30mg Roxicodone's per day in (2)-180mg does so 360mg total consistently for really just too long ... due to being wired from the afternoon dose I would take Xanax at night to sleep ... long story short I did not close my eyes for 5 straight days and basically went cold turkey with the exception of an occasional piece of a 7.5mg Hydrocodone ... almost apples vs. oranges if not for the opiate presence ... to me anyway, oxycodone "grabs" a hold of you the hardest and therefore is the hardest to kick ... not minimizing Vicodin though ... one reason that was even an option is because I had just been laid off during the financial crisis ... self-made btw and am living check to check at the moment ... my current level demanded a disgusting amount of $ to maintain ... anyway, at that time I had bought a house 2 month's prior to the layoff ... thankfully have managed to keep it ... k rambling ... symptoms lingered for 1 month ... was not able to sleep or have normal bowel movements for a solid 30 days ... was clean for a solid 4-6 months at that time with a couple of very mild "cheat days" ... my issue are the roxicodone's or "blues" ... the next withdrawal that was rough was off 10/325 Perc's ... long story short again ... self-tapered this time and the symptoms while present were not as severe with the exception of stomach issues ... so now for the last 11-12 months I had graduated to (20-30)-30mg a day (insane I know) and of course this time around I started snorting them ... only other substances I was taking were pot, occasionally a few beers (once every 2 weeks) ... again, I created a bubble around myself and only focused on going to work and making $ so I could feed this ridiculously expensive habit ... thinking back it disgusts me what I was doing to my body ... grew up an athlete and believe it or not still managed/manage to play very competitive sports throughout these years ... I think all of this was only possible due to the consistency of the quantity and the personal tolerance I built ... k so to the present day/morning ... as I mentioned earlier, I came clean to most family members and most of my close friends ... not only was this a huge weight off my shoulders, but it meant I no longer had to walk around like I was hiding something ... no longer the constant elephant in the room ... so I went from this tremendous quantity down to about 10 a day over the last 2 weeks ... then, I was getting very low and I just basically decided to take whatever I had remaining over the weekend and start Monday ... very bad idea considering I had the work week starting Monday ... took 1/2 of an 8mg strip so 4mg at the suggestion of a co-worker and I had a terrible reaction ... broke out sweating, my stomach almost wanted to empty immediately ... that's all I took for that day ... crawled into bed and rode it out ... got 2 hours of sleep that night and woke up to my pillow being soaking wet ... literally drenched/soaked through and I have a Tempurpedic/memory foam pillow, which is thick ... due to the severity of that day I broke down and took 1 blue Tuesday and due to s highly stressful day and a 3-4 hour appointment I had I took 2 on Wednesday (just my bull>>>> excuse and false rationalization) ... clearly aware of the pattern I was about to familiarly revisit I have not taken any opiates to get high since that day ... as of today I have 4.5 days complete or so totally off the blues ... now, I had a total of 5 strips ... I honestly do not recall the exact usage or when, but I have 2 full ones left and I had been mixing while doing the blues on that Tuesday and Wednesday ... fast forward to now ... my biggest issue is sleep ... these last 5 nights have yielded me about 10 hours ... tonight I have not slept and will not ... I am getting up soon for work and am going to have to tough this day out with the possible hope of being so exhausted that tonight will be the night I can finally maybe get a 5 hour night in ... who knows ... so while I do not find myself very dependent on the Subs, it's the sleep issue that makes me lean toward taking slivers at this point ... there definitely is no simple solution, but my question is can I cut the 2 strips I have left down to 16 slivers and taper with that? The only reason I ask is due to the relatively short history I have had with Subs ... Also, I have HIGHLY addictive personality for as long as I can remember, which I consider an ultimate gift and a curse wrapped in one, as it applies to both the positive and negative aspects of my life ... unfortunately, when on that dosage of blues it is tough to motivate to do anything other than the bare minimum ... Since I do not really have many withdrawal symptoms other than the sleeping (horrendous RLS ... being an athlete I feel like it is intensified since your body has been suppressed and was used to a certain exertion level throughout the years) and occasional digestive system issue, do you think I could just smoke pot before bed an take an OTC sleep aid? If this is even possible, is there any OTC sleep aid you would recommend? Bottom line, I trust you completely and am just hoping you tell me the 2 are enough cut in 16 slivers or tell me the sleep aid may do the trick? So that is my extremely long story wrapped up into what really is a short summary of the enter elaborated facts ... Looking forward to hearing from "Jav" and "What" and anyone else who wants to share their story and/or progress ... hoping to hear good news ... These fuc*kin things are evil and sadly they are becoming so prevalent amongst society, etc etc ... I just know that this has to be my last stint on these things ... I have disappointed so many people and of course myself ... I know I am stronger than this sh*tty addiction and yeah so this is it ... do not think I can handle withdrawal another time around ... this feeling of being a zombie throughout the day can really mess with your mental state and overall feeling of sanity ... So, Robert I have viewed multiple threads and I think it is incredible what you do considering the tremendous amount of time and dedication, as well as patience that it takes ... you are truly one of the "good ones" out there ... really looking forward to your reply and the wisdom you surely can provide ... thank you in advance ...

  23. #233
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Robert is retired. That said, perhaps I can help. First off the reason you got so sick on the sub that day was that you had opiates in your system at the same time the term is "precipitated w/d" and it is hell. Secondly, you do not have enough sub to do a proper taper. If you are o.k. during the day w/o the sub I wouldn't take anymore of it. I have no idea if you cut the subs into slivers if that will help with sleep or whatever. But you've been off the roxies for over 5 days now. Subs are pretty strong and you don't want to detox from those as well. Here is a modified Thomas Recipe:

    Water, pure fruit juices
    Gatorade for RLS and hydration
    Try some tonic water with lemon and also hyland's calme's forte or restful leg.
    L-tyrosine w/ b-6 (for energy)
    B-12
    Pottasium
    Eat bananas, Eat well and avoid processed foods.
    Sleep: Some say nyquil zzzzz, some say melatonin, however some exercise, a hot bath and sleepy time tea. Somewhere on the board someone uses 4 tea bags to 2 cups of hot water.
    I would go with whatever OTC, the hot bath and sleepy time tea before bed. Sleep will come.

    Start thinking therapy, counseling, NA or AA. You know how it is when you get to the point when you think you can take just one or you can control your "habit". YOU CAN'T. Not being harsh, just real.

    Whatever you do: hang tough, try to stay positive and stay strong. Keep posting your symptoms and we'll see what we can do! Good for you to get off these devils.

    Peace,

    Iloerose

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