Tramadol for depression

[bjorkyorke]

Thanks for the reality check, Robert. Just irks me when someone gets on here and throws out a holier than thou attitude. This is not the place to do it. There are so many that come here for advice and help. Like me, had I seen a post like his when I first started coming , it would have given me the impression that we are just jerk offs that "allow" our addictions to happen. And if we're not as mighty and perfect as say - jack - then there is something wrong with us.

We all found this forum for one reason or another. Whether you are addicted to a pill and you need support. This should be a judgement free area. We all screw up. We all make mistakes. But i'm not going to let some one over the internet make me feel bad that I screwed up. I am already beating myself up that I "allowed" myself to take more than what is healthy and step into the danger zone.

I blame my issue on cancer. I got diagnosed at a really young age, I've had 4 surgeries (my 5th coming up next week) I've had a mastectomy, and total breast reconstruction. Due to a serious infection that landed me in the hospital for a week, I have a "problem" spot in my incision area. It occasionally flares up and causes me great pain.

My husband is USAF so I live on an Air Force installation. Military doctors SUCK at treating patients. They treat numbers, not people. In the past 3 years, I've had a total of 11 doctors. The one previously (before I got a very good civilian doctor) told me my pain wasn't his problem and to go see my doctors at Johns Hopkins for my pain management.

I'm in Dover, DE. Driving two hours to JH everytime I need pain relief isn't feasible. So I'm stuck self medicating with Tramadol. It works on my pain, but gives me an incredible euphoric buzz. After awhile, 50mgs wasn't enough to chase the pain. 100mgs gave me back the buzz and left me void of pain. It was such a relieving place to be. Happy again and pain free. But instead of me controlling my pain, the pills began controlling me. It was all I could think about. Before I knew it, I wasn't using it to ease my pain. I was using it to get back that "Happy Place" feeling. The warm fuzzies that give me energy and made me feel smarter, faster, more energetic, and more focused.

It ended up getting worse. Pretty soon I had to take more and more to keep the withdrawal effects away. My head was always spinning and my stomach was always in knots. It wasn't a "happy feeling" anymore. It was a disgusting addiction that kept getting worse. Every hour I needed a pill.

So, as for "allowing myself" anything, how does anyone "allow" themselves to get addicted to pills or drugs or any chemical? It happens when we least expect it.

by simply posting on this blog you are opening yourself up to observations regarding everything you decide to divulge. your perception of my original post was incredibly misunderstood. I too came here for advice and help but now I have to experience your holier than thou attitude. I simply expressed puzzlement at how you could get to the point that you did taking 10-15 pills a day. This behavior involves all of us because this is why the pharmaceutical industry doesn't prescibe something like Tramadol for depression. Although addictive, one must show responsibility to ourselves and to our families and not indulge in abusive behaviors. This is the fear of abuse that the industry has with opioids. It is my right to make an observation that is posted on the world wide web that affects me as well as you.

god bless
"jerk off" jack

[MaisieC]

I think you're out of line, Jack. Maybe you don't realize the tone you use when you write. Though your second post was clearly meant as an insult.

You say you don't understand addiction. I think then that you should keep quiet about it. Just as you shouldn't tell people that St. John's Wort is useless when you don't actually have much information about it. I think it's critically important on this board to listen to people and not to jump to judgement. Otherwise we can't help each other. You know how your mom is judging you about your tramadol use? Check your own behavior.

I hope you never come to "understand" addiction from the inside. To be honest with you, your post is a little worrying, how you would never allow yourself to become addicted...and yet the trajectory you're describing, of a gradually increasing dose, is precisely how addiction starts. Non one wants to be an addict. No one plans for it or allows for it. There is no magical cut-off point where it becomes clear that one must stop. There's nothing special about 200 mgs. You're at 150 mgs yourself now. Another poster on this same thread said there's no reason to worry about tramadol use because most people level off at 400 mgs. Who's right? Where do you draw the line between "rational" self-medicating and simple rationalizing? It's a slippery slope, and that's how it happens, and it's happened to lots of people who are way smarter than we are. There but for the grace of God, you know?

[irishpoet]

Hi everyone,
I am brand new to this forum. I have recently had many health issues and have been required to be on a small variety of meds. I pulled this up because I have recently been prescribed Tramadol and saw the thread.
I don't mean to offend anyone, but as I was reading these threads, I realized that it is very easy to get things taken out of context. I read the threads, and from a different perspective, saw a different meaning entirely. However, I do agree with what was said, we do open ourselves up to comments and observations when we post on this kind of forum that anyone can see.
I hope that if all these meds eventually get me dependant upon them, I stop and get help before it's too late and I get out of control. Sometimes the pain is bad, but maybe I will stay strong. I have a family that needs me, you know.
Anyway, I will work my way around the forum. Hope to talk to some of you later!
irishpoet

[AquarianPath]

by simply posting on this blog you are opening yourself up to observations regarding everything you decide to divulge. your perception of my original post was incredibly misunderstood. I too came here for advice and help but now I have to experience your holier than thou attitude. I simply expressed puzzlement at how you could get to the point that you did taking 10-15 pills a day. This behavior involves all of us because this is why the pharmaceutical industry doesn't prescibe something like Tramadol for depression. Although addictive, one must show responsibility to ourselves and to our families and not indulge in abusive behaviors. This is the fear of abuse that the industry has with opioids. It is my right to make an observation that is posted on the world wide web that affects me as well as you.

god bless
"jerk off" jack

It's not your right to make judgements about something you don't know anything about. About me or about what I went through.

Which is what you did. "How could you allow yourself"..... How can you allow yourself to require a pill to make you happy?


Wow, you are a pontificating jerk off "Although addictive, one must show responsibility to ourselves and to our families and not indulge in abusive behaviors.

So It's my fault that I "allowed" myself to become addicted? Pray God you don't become "irresponsible" and "allow" yourself to "indulge" in "abusive behaviors".

That's another thing, you're issuing judgements against me and many others here that are here for HELP. You're not seeking out help, you're seeking validation for you medicating your depression with an addictiving opiate. Maybe you feel the need to judge me and others here because if you keep a *clear* distinction between me and oh so perfect *you* - you won't feel so afraid that you'll wind up like me.

"Irresponsible and indulging in abusive behaviors. "

I have never onced judged anyone here for what they have gone through. I shared my experiences with this drug, the darker aspect that you don't want admit is right there at your door.
You are just as vulnrable to the effects as I am.

You didn't come here to seek help, you wanted validation for your habit.


As for posting on this "Forum" I'm not open for judgement. It's not up to you or anyone else to judge me, that is for God and God alone. You are not my superior in any way.

[AquarianPath]

Hi everyone,
I am brand new to this forum. I have recently had many health issues and have been required to be on a small variety of meds. I pulled this up because I have recently been prescribed Tramadol and saw the thread.
I don't mean to offend anyone, but as I was reading these threads, I realized that it is very easy to get things taken out of context. I read the threads, and from a different perspective, saw a different meaning entirely. However, I do agree with what was said, we do open ourselves up to comments and observations when we post on this kind of forum that anyone can see.
I hope that if all these meds eventually get me dependant upon them, I stop and get help before it's too late and I get out of control. Sometimes the pain is bad, but maybe I will stay strong. I have a family that needs me, you know.
Anyway, I will work my way around the forum. Hope to talk to some of you later!
irishpoet

We never really know what people mean over the internet, but Jack's comments about me allowing myself to become addicted - "indulging" "irresponsible" "abusive behaviors"................ This is NOT the place for mr. holier than thou to issue any judgements. Not at me NOR anyone else here!

We are not open for judgements. This is a JUDGEMENT FREE area. People need to feel comfortable in revealing things about themselves they wouldn't normally reveal. If they get slapped around and get called "irresponsible" or "indulging in abusive behaviors" why should they share anything here?

It's a support forum.

Judge not lest ye be judged -

"god bless" my ass

[MaisieC]

Hi everyone,
I am brand new to this forum. I have recently had many health issues and have been required to be on a small variety of meds. I pulled this up because I have recently been prescribed Tramadol and saw the thread.
I don't mean to offend anyone, but as I was reading these threads, I realized that it is very easy to get things taken out of context. I read the threads, and from a different perspective, saw a different meaning entirely. However, I do agree with what was said, we do open ourselves up to comments and observations when we post on this kind of forum that anyone can see.
I hope that if all these meds eventually get me dependant upon them, I stop and get help before it's too late and I get out of control. Sometimes the pain is bad, but maybe I will stay strong. I have a family that needs me, you know.
Anyway, I will work my way around the forum. Hope to talk to some of you later!
irishpoet

Hi irishpoet,

Well, this particular thread tends to have a lot of emotion on it. People's feelings tend to be rubbed pretty raw when they come here.

I think the best you can do when you're prescribed medications that build dependence is to be as informed and alert as possible. The more you know about the risk, the better. The drugs we have are the best we have, and they are not perfect. You can learn a lot around here about what CAN happen. I hope you don't have to stay on all those meds very long!

Take care.

Maisie

[irishpoet]

So It's my fault that I "allowed" myself to become addicted? Pray God you don't become "irresponsible" and "allow" yourself to "indulge" in "abusive behaviors".


Yes, sadly, it is your fault. Who else can be blamed?
This forum is to seek help and advice for things that were entirely brought on by ourselves. Its about our addictions. This particular thread was about how we can't get the pharmaceutical company to give tromadol for depression because of the addictive nature of the opiate. Maybe this forum isn't for me either. I was looking for a place to go to make sure I don't get addicted, not reprieve and solace if I do.
The blog was tramadol for depression. Does anyone have anthing to add to that comment ? Seems the original path has gotten sidetracked to abuse and condescending remarks. Is this forum about help or just throwing stones?

[irishpoet]

Hi irishpoet,

Well, this particular thread tends to have a lot of emotion on it. People's feelings tend to be rubbed pretty raw when they come here.

I think the best you can do when you're prescribed medications that build dependence is to be as informed and alert as possible. The more you know about the risk, the better. The drugs we have are the best we have, and they are not perfect. You can learn a lot around here about what CAN happen. I hope you don't have to stay on all those meds very long!

Take care.

Maisie

Thanks, Maisie. This is all new to me (forums and meds). I am almost 40 and have never really been sick or on medications. However, that has all changed and I guess I have to change with it. Unfortunately, meds are here (for me) for awhile.

[Robert_325]

Hi irishpoet,

Well, this particular thread tends to have a lot of emotion on it. People's feelings tend to be rubbed pretty raw when they come here.

I think the best you can do when you're prescribed medications that build dependence is to be as informed and alert as possible. The more you know about the risk, the better. The drugs we have are the best we have, and they are not perfect. You can learn a lot around here about what CAN happen. I hope you don't have to stay on all those meds very long!

Take care.

Maisie

You just hit it right on the head Maisie. If we think about this logically the deal is that just about everyone who ends up here is emotionally upset, they're possibly in physical w/d, generally having lots of "trying times" period. Most everyone is operating on "less than a full tank" when they log on here.

There are certain threads across the forum that result in higher levels of emotion being shown, whether positive or negative, but such is drug addiction. We could just delete everyone who argues but this IS a drug forum. Even though people get their feelings hurt we do have to realize we're on a drug forum. That doesn't "exempt" us though from showing just a little common courtesy for each other.

This arguing needs to lighten up guys. Admin is not going to allow the fighting to go on here much longer I promise. Isn't there something more positive that could be discussed rather than calling each other a bunch of vile names? God bless.

[AquarianPath]

So It's my fault that I "allowed" myself to become addicted? Pray God you don't become "irresponsible" and "allow" yourself to "indulge" in "abusive behaviors".


Yes, sadly, it is your fault. Who else can be blamed?
This forum is to seek help and advice for things that were entirely brought on by ourselves. Its about our addictions. This particular thread was about how we can't get the pharmaceutical company to give tromadol for depression because of the addictive nature of the opiate. Maybe this forum isn't for me either. I was looking for a place to go to make sure I don't get addicted, not reprieve and solace if I do.
The blog was tramadol for depression. Does anyone have anthing to add to that comment ? Seems the original path has gotten sidetracked to abuse and condescending remarks. Is this forum about help or just throwing stones?

It's not about fault or blame. Why does it matter "who is to blame"? It DOESN"T.

That's my whole point. I expressed my concerns in a thread where people are seeking out opinions on Tramadol used as an anti depressant.

As I've stated in subsequent posts is that if people can maintain 1-3 a day, not get to the point I WAS AT and have an improved quality of life, good on them. No judgements from me. At all!

I shared my concern that people don't rely too heavily on this drug - coming from someone that dealt with the dark aspect of this pain killer. It's all rosey until you are controlled by a drug.



Oh, this is great "I am almost 40 and have never really been sick or on medications"



Lucky you.

[irishpoet]

That doesn't "exempt" us though from showing just a little common courtesy for each other.

This arguing needs to lighten up guys. Admin is not going to allow the fighting to go on here much longer I promise. Isn't there something more positive that could be discussed rather than calling each other a bunch of vile names? God bless. [/QUOTE]

Hi Robert,
As you know, I surely am new to this kind of stuff and hope I didn't offend anyone. I am just concerned and was internet surfing about all the stuff I am on and came across this. I can see from everyone's posts that it must be difficult. But what else can I do? Live with the issues? That is such a low quality of life, you know...
ip

[irishpoet]

Oh, this is great "I am almost 40 and have never really been sick or on medications"



Lucky you.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I have been very fortunate, Maisie, up until recently. It was an honest statement that I didn't think would offend anyone; I guess I was wrong.

[AquarianPath]

That doesn't "exempt" us though from showing just a little common courtesy for each other.

This arguing needs to lighten up guys. Admin is not going to allow the fighting to go on here much longer I promise. Isn't there something more positive that could be discussed rather than calling each other a bunch of vile names? God bless.

Hi Robert,
As you know, I surely am new to this kind of stuff and hope I didn't offend anyone. I am just concerned and was internet surfing about all the stuff I am on and came across this. I can see from everyone's posts that it must be difficult. But what else can I do? Live with the issues? That is such a low quality of life, you know...
ip[/QUOTE]

I've never had to experience an "us vs. them" attitude before until now. I am no different than you, Irishpoet or Jack. I started exactly where you are at right now. Taking 1-4 a day and thought I was above it too.

I was expressing my concern that people don't fully understand the darker side of this drug. I was exactly where Jack was.
Thought I had control of it. There is no blame - I lost control. How did it happen? I don't know. It crept in and before I knew it, I was up to 15 a day.

Go to the Tramadol addiction thread. You'll gain a better understanding of how this drug gets a hold of you.
I'm not less of a person, I'm not all that different from any one here.

It's the attitude that "yes it's your fault, who else is to blame" and "allowing yourself" "irresponsible" "indulging in abusive behaviors" do you not understand the judgement context of those words?

Who are you, Irishpoet, to judge me and my mistakes? Who is anyone to lay blame or fault at anyone's feet? It's not up to you.

As maisie said, it's a slippery slope. Understanding that it is the drug that is to be blamed. Not those who mess up - if I were truly to blame, then I could go off the drug whenever I felt like it.

It's like you're saying it was my choice to get addicted. It wasn't. That's what addiction means. People don't choose to get addicted to drugs.
So stop trying to label people or put blame on them when it is not your right to do so.

[AquarianPath]

Oh, this is great "I am almost 40 and have never really been sick or on medications"



Lucky you.

Yes, I have been very fortunate, Maisie, up until recently. It was an honest statement that I didn't think would offend anyone; I guess I was wrong.[/QUOTE]

oh my lord, you're not getting it. You didn't offend me. But you're taking this attitude that you are untouchable. Totally in control. I'm trying to convey to those who lurk and browse through here that ******** happens. It's not our faults. We fall, we mess up, we're not perfect. Don't expect everyone not to have a tough time just because you haven't. Don't judge people especially when you've never had life throw you a curve ball.

You're leveling blame at someone who at age 28 has had more surgeries and more life experience than you have had in your 40 years.Yet you're patronizing me. "Yes it's your fault".

I am not here for judgement. I am here to help others understand the many drugs I've had the misfortune of coming into contact with. I am here to lend my experience in hope that it will get people to think twice about their decisions.

Tramadol is a very addictive drug. I wanted to post my concerns and caution those who are taking it. To lend my experience with the addiction of it. I'm still not completely off the stuff. It's a constant battle.

This thread was about Tramadol being used as an anti depressant. I said "hey, watch out. It starts out all good and all, before you know it you'll be taking 15-30 a day if you're not careful" but instead, I got personally reprimanded.

"How could you allow yourself" what did I do to deserve someone else's judgements????

[irishpoet]

[QUOTE=irishpoet;233805]So It's my fault that I "allowed" myself to become addicted? Pray God you don't become "irresponsible" and "allow" yourself to "indulge" in "abusive behaviors".


Yes, sadly, it is your fault. Who else can be blamed?

You asked a question and I answered it. I am not labeling you, I am stating a fact. Obviously, you wouldn't have chosen this path, but it is still your responsibility. I appreciate your warnings and I did not get on here to argue with anyone, and I will really try to not offend anyone, but I will take responsibility for what I do to myself. If I offended you, I apologize. However, just state that and the apology will come quicker. Remarks like "Oh this is good" and "lucky you" will olnly get some people irritated and generally, lash back out.
Also intrepreted as, where's Jack?

[irishpoet]

It's not our faults. We fall, we mess up, we're not perfect. Don't expect everyone not to have a tough time just because you haven't. Don't judge people especially when you've never had life throw you a curve ball.

You're leveling blame at someone who at age 28 has had more surgeries and more life experience than you have had in your 40 years.Yet you're patronizing me. "Yes it's your fault".

Look, it's late and I'm tired. You have absolutely no idea what my life had to offer me or what curve balls I have had. You have no idea what experiences I have had or what I am currently going through. However, I will say this, I have never been addicted to anything in my life. And no, that is not luck. It wasn't the cards I was dealt; it was how I played the hand.
If anyone who is passing judgements as well as blame, it would be you.
And again, thanks for the warnings. I really hope I don't end up like you all.

[AquarianPath]

[QUOTE=irishpoet;233818]

So It's my fault that I "allowed" myself to become addicted? Pray God you don't become "irresponsible" and "allow" yourself to "indulge" in "abusive behaviors".


Yes, sadly, it is your fault. Who else can be blamed?

You asked a question and I answered it. I am not labeling you, I am stating a fact. Obviously, you wouldn't have chosen this path, but it is still your responsibility. I appreciate your warnings and I did not get on here to argue with anyone, and I will really try to not offend anyone, but I will take responsibility for what I do to myself. If I offended you, I apologize. However, just state that and the apology will come quicker. Remarks like "Oh this is good" and "lucky you" will olnly get some people irritated and generally, lash back out.
Also intrepreted as, where's Jack?

No, it's not my fault or anyone else's. If it were, then I wouldn't have been addicted.

I didn't choose to get addicted. It's not about being irresponsible. You don't get it, you never will.

And you know what? I went to an old profile and saw this:

never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

It was a rhetorical question, not requiring an answer. Not to mention, you're not qualified to make that call, Irish. You don't have the right to lay blame on anyone.
Especially when you've never dealt with pretty much anything in your life.

Do you understand now? You don't have the right to say it's my fault. It is not your judgement call. You do - not - have - that - right. Get it through your brain. I'm not here to be blamed.
Neither is anyone here.

It's not YOUR responsbility to be condescending or patronizing to me or anyone here. YOU don't have any right to blame anyone for ******** you don't understand or never had to deal with.

[MaisieC]

Please, everybody just stop posting on this thread tonight? I think we should all just turn our attention to something else for the balance of the evening. I have some things to say, but I won't say them. Will you guys do the same for tonight?

Here is what I'm going to do to relax. These are from my favorites on YouTube. I hope you'll like them, too. Now you can see how totally nuts I am. Oh well.

A video about pug dogs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uuqXXT7VYo

And here is one of many clips of Dr. McCoy saying "he's dead Jim":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJQwHwP0ojI

Here is a home video of a cat knocking over a toddler:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjFywJrn7WQ

Here is SpiderPig from the Simpsons movie flying over Battersea Power Station, a la Pink Floyd:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lk1JY5QyFo

Here is a video of the children's book "Whose Mouse Are You" read in Jamaican patois:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgE1iKCrMx4

And to lull us to sleep, the legendary Boston punk rock band The Dropkick Murphys performing the Pete Seeger classic "Which Side Are You On?":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73NGB-siLIE

Night.

Maisie

[AquarianPath]

It's not our faults. We fall, we mess up, we're not perfect. Don't expect everyone not to have a tough time just because you haven't. Don't judge people especially when you've never had life throw you a curve ball.

You're leveling blame at someone who at age 28 has had more surgeries and more life experience than you have had in your 40 years.Yet you're patronizing me. "Yes it's your fault".

Look, it's late and I'm tired. You have absolutely no idea what my life had to offer me or what curve balls I have had. You have no idea what experiences I have had or what I am currently going through. However, I will say this, I have never been addicted to anything in my life. And no, that is not luck. It wasn't the cards I was dealt; it was how I played the hand.
If anyone who is passing judgements as well as blame, it would be you.
And again, thanks for the warnings. I really hope I don't end up like you all.

However, I will say this, I have never been addicted to anything in my life. And no, that is not luck. It wasn't the cards I was dealt; it was how I played the hand.
If anyone who is passing judgements as well as blame, it would be you.

No, I'm telling you to stop blaming people for things you don't understand. You don't have the right.

If you don't understand what I have gone through, you don't have the right to blame me for mistakes I've made.

I had cancer, I've had a total of 4 surgeries, my 5th coming up next week. I have no right breast. I have ongoing pain issues. Is that my fault? (again, a rhetorical question)

Read up on Cancer and Addicted to Pain Killers in google. It's quite common for cancer survivors to unfortunately get addicted to pain killers.

Yeah, go to bed. I hope you don't end up like me, either. a druggy.

[Heather43]

I don't need pills to "chill", dude. That's your problem, not mine.

And you finish off with "God bless" ...you, my friend...are a major hypocrite.

Ok WOW when I read that one of "US" was sitting in judgement of another I was really dissapointed. Hey there are plenty of places we can go to get beat up. However, let this not be the forum. Is this thread NOT Tramadol for depression? We use it, we have tried it, were getting off it..were staying on it..We think its the best thing since sliced bread...We think it made us alive again...etc. My first thought about that remark was that the person has not taken the drug long enough and is a bit ignorant to the tolerance. I have been taking it for three plus gee maybe closer to four years and there is a tolerance build up I assure you. When I go to these blogs to read about others journies and there is something negative said I swear to you I take it so personally and it makes me feel terrible and that was not even directed at me.
Aquarian...forgive and let it go..."Fuzzzbaba"
XXHeather

[AquarianPath]

Sorry Heather, it wasn't directed at you and it was harsh. I was personally attacked first and was told "I recommend you go back to taking 15 pills"....

Yet I'm the one being told I did something wrong. I defended myself and what I posted.
I came here addressing the topic, and Jack decided he had every right to judge me.

So I leveled it right back at him. However, I apologize for those who got caught in the crosshairs of this mess. I'm not about to let two people who don't know a damn thing about me issue judgements about me. They'll get it right back in return.

I'll say it again: To those who have maintained 1-4 a day, have an improved qualitify of life and are aware of the dangerous aspects of this very addictive drug, good on you. You're at a better place than I was.

i wish the people here only the best of luck, I said what I said because as someone who has been there, I thought my experience would be helpful.

[MaisieC]

Heather, I totally agree with you.

Everybody, it's massively important on these boards to try as hard as you can to be compassionate towards others and not judge, and even if you have an opinion really think HARD before you post: is it going to be helpful to others? Because almost everyone is here because they're hurting in some way: from depression, from addiction, from some combination of the two. If you haven't been through it, it's a fair assumption that you don't truly understand what it's like. At that point I think it is wise to put a sock in it and try to listen and learn.

The question of using tramadol for depression is a really complicated one. I am a person who became addicted to opiates after using them to treat depression. I was an active addict for 10 years. It pretty much destroyed my life. So I have a lot of feelings about the topic. But the SSRIs DO work for me. I get on here and read about people who have had no success with any other treatment for depression, and I am filled with compassion because I know what depression feels like. Now I am NOT going to sit still when someone says there are no risks. But when I read other people's stories, I can't be thinking "yeah, well, I'm the only one who's right." Then people get all defensive and upset and you've closed down communication rather than opening it. You gotta listen to other people with goodwill and kindness. And it's better to say nothing rather than say something that's going to make it worse.

I keep thinking about a scene from a movie I love, the adaptation of the novel "A Passage to India." It's about the British presence in India during the Raj, and the story involves a lot of prejudice and miscommunication and generally horribly messy situations. There's a big flare-up, and the English are reacting in a frightened and racist way, and Mrs. Moore, a beautiful elderly lady played by Dame Peggy Ashcroft, turns to her son and says very firmly, "God has put us on earth to love and help our fellow men."

[bjorkyorke]

Just wanted to add I have been taking Tramadol for well over a year now and have never taken more than three in one day. It still works well for me. I also skip a day or two during the week as I do not want to build up a tolerance.

To the lady with the cancer- Jesus Christ, there isn't a person alive with a beating heart who doesn't feel for what you have gone through. I pray you make peace with what has happened and find happiness. You have good qualities to give.

Before anyone knew the details of your situation, I simply commented on how you could go from 2-3 pills a day to 15. Then all hell breaks loose. This seems to make me holier than thou. Asking, for sincere reasons, how one could take that many pills each day, makes me a bad guy. I really want to know- do you take five in the morning, seven at noon and then three in the evening each day? And while doing this are you worried about addiction and withdrawl symptoms brewing on the horizon? It's like we are in AA and I want to know what you were thinking by drinking an entire bottle of scotch. I'm sorta doing research on the mindset of someone who atkes lots and lots of pills a day. I'm fascinated by this. One fella said he used to take took 100 pills. How do you phsyically do this without being insane? I'm sorry, explain it to me. And if the answer is insanity, then why bite my head off for it.


Personally, I think anyone who takes 15 pills a day that are prescibed by a doctor when it clearly states NOT to take that many, needs to see a therapist. I may be the only one here that admits this, but geez people. I simply cannot relate to that kind of addiction. It's like crack...uncontrollable and harmful amounts of drugs are being put into your bodies willfully. I don't think the issue is Tramadol addiction. I think some people have addictive personalities who tend to have a harder time taking responsibility with drugs and abuse them. Truth be said. Don't some down on Tramadol. Tramadol doesn't seem that addicting. I'm sorry, there is a difference between 3 pills and 15 pills. It might seem like a slippery slope to the ones who have abused the prescription, but I respect the drugs that exist over the counter. I would like to take Tramadol every day. I try not to because I'm not sure of long term effects on my body. I'm sorry, but it isn't that helpful to me be warned from people who took 15 pills of it a day. Of course it would do harm if I did that. Your telling me by taking 3 pills a day I will up the dose eventually. Maybe. You did, therefore the risk is there. Maybe you would also smoke pot all day. I wouldn't, and I like pot. Do you see what I am getting at? Addictive personalities. Live aand learn. Be aware of the pitfalls. When you take 10+pills, you are setting yourself up for a fall.

I know I will get the wrath of the flame wars after this post, but sometimes the truth needs to be said. In my post there is truth. It's in there. The truth hurts. I know about addiction from the inside. I used to do cocaine until I couldn't pay rent. It was an awful experience and I started to lose myself in the process. But I also was able to get myself off my addiction and get my life together. It took the lowest of lows, but I did it without going to get help. All on my own. Something gave me strength and I beat cocaine. But if someone was to ask me how I got to that point, I wouldn't get angry with them. I would engage in a conversation about it-

"How could you let cocaine do that to you??"
"Fair question friend; let me tell you my story......it helps me to talk about it"

[MaisieC]

I don't think it is productive anymore for people to continue restating their positions on this issue. There are serious tone problems on this thread, among other things, and I don't think that repeated posts are going to get us any closer to peace. Would everyone please just STOP?

[AquarianPath]

Just wanted to add I have been taking Tramadol for well over a year now and have never taken more than three in one day. It still works well for me. I also skip a day or two during the week as I do not want to build up a tolerance.

To the lady with the cancer- Jesus Christ, there isn't a person alive with a beating heart who doesn't feel for what you have gone through. I pray you make peace with what has happened and find happiness. You have good qualities to give.
__________________
You don't get it, Jack. Not one bit. I'm not asking you to have sympathy for me. But instead of coming out the way you did "How could you allow yourself" - it's implying I chose to go down that path. I didn't. I was exactly where you are at right now. I've been on some sort of pain killer for 3 years now. Tramadol is the only one that got out of control. I am GLAD you can take 3 a day and NOT up the dosage. Which is how it happened for me. I was fine with taking them for just pain.
-----------------

Before anyone knew the details of your situation, I simply commented on how you could go from 2-3 pills a day to 15. Then all hell breaks loose. This seems to make me holier than thou. Asking, for sincere reasons, how one could take that many pills each day, makes me a bad guy. I really want to know- do you take five in the morning, seven at noon and then three in the evening each day? And while doing this are you worried about addiction and withdrawl symptoms brewing on the horizon?
-------------------
Had you asked in this way, I would have gladly shared how I got to that many. It is not the most interesting of explanations, but I don't MIND sharing how it happened. I may have misunderstood the context? But how you posted your initial response sounded condescending and patronizing. If that wasn't how you meant it, I apologize for opening up the wrath. That's how I perceived it. I'm not at a point yet where I feel good about how it all went down. It put me on the defensive and made me angry.

If you go to the other thread (tramadol addiction), you will see what occured and how I got to the point of taking 10-15 pills per day. How I tapered back down to 1 1/2 and finally at a comfortable 3.

I started off in the morning taking 200mg just to get my "going". More to keep the withdrawal effects away. I hated how the drug started making me feel. Then around noon I would take another 50mg. From then on, I would take a pill every hour until I fell asleep. I would even wake up and pop one. I took the pills to avoid the withdrawal symptoms. I am a military wife and my husband was put on 12 hour shifts. I didn't take enough to give me a high, but took enough to keep my head normal and void of the withdrawal effects. I have an infant son and one morning I was bringing him upstairs, I was out of pills and withdrawing very badly. I tripped on the very top stair and fell with him in my arms.

Thankfully we were at the top and the fall didn't hurt him. but I sat there and cried at how weak and stupid and pathetic I was. Jack, if you knew me, you wouldn't have any idea I could be addicted to a drug. I've never smoked, very rarely drink, I don't have piercings anywhere, no tattoos, I don't wear make up. I was a CNA for a long time and grew up in a medical house hold.
I do have the genes though that set me up for failure. My dad was a heavy smoker until 9 years ago, and still is a maintenance drinker. He was/is an alcoholic but still a good man. My mom is a chain smoker and has been all her life. Alcoholism runs in my family. All my siblings are addicted to something. Which is why I avoid taking medications FOR ANYTHING. But after surgery, I needed pain relief. I got hooked.

I don't need others to blame me because I am in fact, my biggest critic. I hate myself that I got to that point. I found this thread and worried others would follow the same path that I did or Maisie did.

My fear of what happened with me and my son keeps me from taking anymore....but I am still addicted. I still take three a day.

When I first told my husband about my problems, he waved it off. Finally one night I shook him awake and told him we needed to talk. He finally understood the reality of my problem and we got help together. I tapered off as fast as my body would allow with him watching our son. I worry that people think they have control , and that's when you get hooked. I was hoping that by sharing mye xperience, people would understand the darker aspect of Tramadol and how it hooks you. Me, a military wife, mom of three young boys - delaware breast cancer coalition volunteer, fell from grace and got addicted to a pain killer.
----------------------------


It's like we are in AA and I want to know what you were thinking by drinking an entire bottle of scotch. I'm sorta doing research on the mindset of someone who atkes lots and lots of pills a day. I'm fascinated by this. One fella said he used to take took 100 pills. How do you phsyically do this without being insane? I'm sorry, explain it to me. And if the answer is insanity, then why bite my head off for it.
------------------------------------
You forget after awhile, how many you've taken so far, so you keep popping. Before you realize it, you're down to a few pills left in the bottle. I kept trying to count, but I would end up not paying attention by the end of the day. The only way I found out how many I was taking was when my husband counted one day. I had taken 11 in one day.
------------------------------------


Personally, I think anyone who takes 15 pills a day that are prescibed by a doctor when it clearly states NOT to take that many, needs to see a therapist. I may be the only one here that admits this, but geez people. I simply cannot relate to that kind of addiction. It's like crack...uncontrollable and harmful amounts of drugs are being put into your bodies willfully. I don't think the issue is Tramadol addiction. I think some people have addictive personalities who tend to have a harder time taking responsibility with drugs and abuse them. Truth be said. Don't some down on Tramadol. Tramadol doesn't seem that addicting. I'm sorry, there is a difference between 3 pills and 15 pills. It might seem like a slippery slope to the ones who have abused the prescription, but I respect the drugs that exist over the counter. I would like to take Tramadol every day. I try not to because I'm not sure of long term effects on my body. I'm sorry, but it isn't that helpful to me be warned from people who took 15 pills of it a day. Of course it would do harm if I did that. Your telling me by taking 3 pills a day I will up the dose eventually. Maybe. You did, therefore the risk is there. Maybe you would also smoke pot all day. I wouldn't, and I like pot. Do you see what I am getting at? Addictive personalities. Live aand learn. Be aware of the pitfalls. When you take 10+pills, you are setting yourself up for a fall.
----------------
Jeez , don't I know it! I did fall, with my son in my arms. YOU don't need to tell me of the risks or what I did wrong. That was the whole point. YOU don't need to sit in your high throne, making distinct lines between you and me. You don't need to tell me I screwed up. I'm already doing enough of the shaming and blaming in my own head. I already feel like ********. I am not "clean" yet. I'm still using, but down to three a day. I still have "cravings". I get upset, I want to pop a pill. I feel tense, pop a pill. I got to that point after using for awhile. Like you, Tramadol made me happy again. After two years of being depressed because of what cancer did to my body, Tramadol offered a happy place for me. I wanted to stay there and not cope with the reality. So I took more to get back to that place. Then I just stopped counting how many I was taking. The happy place went away and it just made me feel sick. I had to take more to keep the withdrawal effects from creeping in.
---------------------------------

I know I will get the wrath of the flame wars after this post, but sometimes the truth needs to be said. In my post there is truth. It's in there. The truth hurts. I know about addiction from the inside. I used to do cocaine until I couldn't pay rent. It was an awful experience and I started to lose myself in the process. But I also was able to get myself off my addiction and get my life together. It took the lowest of lows, but I did it without going to get help. All on my own. Something gave me strength and I beat cocaine. But if someone was to ask me how I got to that point, I wouldn't get angry with them. I would engage in a conversation about it-

"How could you let cocaine do that to you??"
"Fair question friend; let me tell you my story......it helps me to talk about it"

-----------------
Jack, fair enough. But you didn't post your questions or inquiries in that way. It seemed to me to be more of an offense. Maybe you didn't mean it, but it felt that way. I'm not recovering yet. I'm defensive and pissed off at myself. You're right how COULD I allow myself to get to that point? We all have a personal responsibility to keep ourselves healthy. I tried doing that for years and still ended up with cancer. So I figured I might as well find a happy place and hang out there for awhile.

[AquarianPath]

I don't think it is productive anymore for people to continue restating their positions on this issue. There are serious tone problems on this thread, among other things, and I don't think that repeated posts are going to get us any closer to peace. Would everyone please just STOP?

Maisie, sometimes people need to hash things out to get to the bottom of things. I promise, I'm not about to flame anyone.

[AquarianPath]

I am trying to be as open and honest about myself here. I never said I wasn't to blame. I just said it's not up to anyone HERE to blame me. No one here has that right. I'm doing enough of that as it is. It doesn't help anyone to say "Yes it's your fault, who else is to blame". How does that help me? Or other addicts who screwed up? We know we know we know. I am constantly beating myself up. I could have very easily have fallen while going down the stairs with my son. I could have killed or severely injure him beyond all repair. That sticks in my mind every time I reach for a pill. I don't need others telling me it was my fault. I don't need others posting over and over again the stupidity and the gravity of my faults and screwing up. I realize it better than you or Irish ever could or will. That's not why I got angry. I wanted you to stop and think about what you were saying to someone who has been severely humbled by her stupidity and her faults. To think about it and have compassion and some understanding. Yes it's my fault. Yes it was my responsibility. I didn't say you were full of it, I said it wasn't up to you to judge me or set the blame on my shoulders. You are neither my counselor nor my friend. If you want info, ask it. If you want to be judgemental, do it.

I appreciate the sincerity of your post, Jack. You wanted an explanation, I gave it. I shouldn't have flown off the handle, but I'm defensive and am ashamed of myself. More than you could possibly understand.

I don't need "truth". I have enough of it. I need support, encouragement, understanding, compassion. Sometimes I even need some tough reality. I'm not ready for that yet, though.
I came here, to THIS thread to say "Yeah, it's good for awhile...but whoa, watch out . It might hook you like it did me!".

[confusedvette]

and here I am getting nervous about taking 50-150 mg of tramadol day......I suppose if I can keep to that I can consider myself relatively fortunate...


good luck to all here....

[Heather43]

I am trying to be as open and honest about myself here. I never said I wasn't to blame. I just said it's not up to anyone HERE to blame me. No one here has that right. I'm doing enough of that as it is. It doesn't help anyone to say "Yes it's your fault, who else is to blame". How does that help me? Or other addicts who screwed up? We know we know we know. I am constantly beating myself up. I could have very easily have fallen while going down the stairs with my son. I could have killed or severely injure him beyond all repair. That sticks in my mind every time I reach for a pill. I don't need others telling me it was my fault. I don't need others posting over and over again the stupidity and the gravity of my faults and screwing up. I realize it better than you or Irish ever could or will. That's not why I got angry. I wanted you to stop and think about what you were saying to someone who has been severely humbled by her stupidity and her faults. To think about it and have compassion and some understanding. Yes it's my fault. Yes it was my responsibility. I didn't say you were full of it, I said it wasn't up to you to judge me or set the blame on my shoulders. You are neither my counselor nor my friend. If you want info, ask it. If you want to be judgemental, do it.

I appreciate the sincerity of your post, Jack. You wanted an explanation, I gave it. I shouldn't have flown off the handle, but I'm defensive and am ashamed of myself. More than you could possibly understand.

I don't need "truth". I have enough of it. I need support, encouragement, understanding, compassion. Sometimes I even need some tough reality. I'm not ready for that yet, though.
I came here, to THIS thread to say "Yeah, it's good for awhile...but whoa, watch out . It might hook you like it did me!".

Aquarian...its time for you to forgive yourself and stop beating yourself up. ENOUGH... You have punished yourself enough. The time you spend replaying the fall is enough. You are Human! Humans make mistakes. We are vulnarable lovable beings. Go forward from here and flick that little demon off your shoulder..give him a good wack.
The former words were not OK agreed, however if you could rise above and see it objectively you are on your way to forgiving yourself. I wonder how you will feel a month from now reading his thread. I get it....you take more becuse you need 8 pills to do what 4 did for you. Then on and on. But unless a person has been in your place they can not relate and its that simple. Your journey is your own. Thats why were here to share our journey and lend a shoulder and information.
Let's take the lead fro Maise and move forward from here..you have both been heard.
XXHeather

[Heather43]

I would like to know if anyone has noticed a difference between Ultram and Tramadol. I know that Tram is the Generic for Ultram however They do not seem to have the same reaction.
I do use the Tram so self medicate for depression. Thats why I am posting here.
It was my miracle answer, like I have said it got me out of bed. No other anti's worked and as I have said I have tried them all.
I have been taking these for about three years.
Now unfortunately I mostly have to take them so I wont go through the withdraw....it does still help with the moods however I am not as energetic as I was when I took them before. Yes I understand about building a toloerance than shouldnt you get the same affect you once had if you increase your dose? I am sleeping waaaay to much. I am up til about 3 am then sleep all day. Not about a sleep pattern being off, I have always been a nite owl and still got up at least by 10am.
I could swear that Ultram gave me more energy and will to be productive then the Tram. Any input?
And remember this is the place to discuss using Tramadol for depression wether you feel good or bad about it.
There are some that are so desperate to have releif from depression like me that they will try anything and for a long time this drug seemed to be the answer.
I also lost weight while on Ultram. Has anyone had that happen? It was great for my self esteem and also aided in my help with depression feeling better about myself.
OK let me know
H