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Subutex versus Suboxone
  1. #121
    Abc123456789 is offline New Member
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    I would like to know if half the people that talk about suboxone or subutex have ever even been on it before or do you all just write what you hear about it. This is what is up yes suboxone has opiate blocker naloxone and subutex doesn't mainly for pregnant women that can't be on a drug that blocks other medications. Starting with suboxone it can be injected and snorted and when people say u go in to premeditated withdrawal because you do it that way is nonsense because if you put it under your tongue its doing what? The answer is the same damn thing as it would be doing if you injected it or snorted it it's going in to your blood stream ur tongue doesn't have a special filter to stop withdrawal its going in to your blood stream just the same. The premeditated withdrawn can be brought on even if u take it the right way the reason you get premeditated withdrawal only happens if you take suboxone while you are still on an opiate such as >>>>>> or Vicodin that's why the doctor won't administer it until you withdrawal from lets say >>>>>> for atleast 24 to 48 hours because the suboxone will kick the opiate off of the receptors in your brain and your body will get sick because it sences that the opiate is no lingers on the receptor so you will then withdrawal until the suboxone has fully kicked the opiate off of the receptors and replaces it to start doing its own job. So in conclusion the only way you will withdrawal from suboxone is if A you have been on it for a few months and stop taking it or B you take the medication while there is a presence of an opiate on your opiate receptors so it don't make a difference how suboxone is taken hearing that u go in to premeditated withdrawal because you inject it or snort it and not because you take it under your tongue is so stupid to hear because again lastly the medication is going in to your body all through your blood stream.
    AceBoogey1985 likes this.

  2. #122
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abc123456789 View Post
    I would like to know if half the people that talk about suboxone or subutex have ever even been on it before or do you all just write what you hear about it. This is what is up yes suboxone has opiate blocker naloxone and subutex doesn't mainly for pregnant women that can't be on a drug that blocks other medications. Starting with suboxone it can be injected and snorted and when people say u go in to premeditated withdrawal because you do it that way is nonsense because if you put it under your tongue its doing what? The answer is the same damn thing as it would be doing if you injected it or snorted it it's going in to your blood stream ur tongue doesn't have a special filter to stop withdrawal its going in to your blood stream just the same. The premeditated withdrawn can be brought on even if u take it the right way the reason you get premeditated withdrawal only happens if you take suboxone while you are still on an opiate such as >>>>>> or Vicodin that's why the doctor won't administer it until you withdrawal from lets say >>>>>> for atleast 24 to 48 hours because the suboxone will kick the opiate off of the receptors in your brain and your body will get sick because it sences that the opiate is no lingers on the receptor so you will then withdrawal until the suboxone has fully kicked the opiate off of the receptors and replaces it to start doing its own job. So in conclusion the only way you will withdrawal from suboxone is if A you have been on it for a few months and stop taking it or B you take the medication while there is a presence of an opiate on your opiate receptors so it don't make a difference how suboxone is taken hearing that u go in to premeditated withdrawal because you inject it or snort it and not because you take it under your tongue is so stupid to hear because again lastly the medication is going in to your body all through your blood stream.



    Mr Genius .... would you care to explain what "premeditated w/d" is? That is the most ignorant thing I've ever read. You're just a junkie shooting drugs who doesn't know what you're talking about. You don't even know the correct terminology to express what you're trying to say. No one here is interested in your one post "to enlighten the world." Get clean and then we'll talk if you can get your stuf straight, you are probably shooting your subs as we speak.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  3. #123
    Abc123456789 is offline New Member
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    Why does everyone think that you will go in to withdrawn if you snort or shoot suboxone where do you think the medication goes when it is under your tongue the same place it goes if you snort or shoot it your blood stream. The only way you will go in to withdrawn is if you already have opiates on your receptors the suboxone will kick it off and until your body adapts to it you will go through premeditated withdrawal if you have opiates such as >>>>>> in your body even if you put it under your tongue you will still go through premeditated withdrawal shooting it or snorting it has nothing to do with it if you don't have any drugs in your system you can snort shoot and put it under your tongue all day and you won't have one ounce of withdrawal. I think people come on here just to talk because have of what I hear people have no clue what there talking about I took suboxone every way you can take it and the only time I regret ever doing it that way was when I had opiates already in my system on my receptors the suboxone kicked the opiate off of the receptors and my body went in to withdrawn until I took enough suboxone for it to finally cover the receptors and do its intended job.

  4. #124
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    I can't have an intelligent discussion with someone who keeps referring to premeditated w/d. There is no such thing. Could you perhaps be referring to precipitated w/d? Kindly learn what YOU are talking about before explaining things to me.

    If you choose to shoot or snort subs that is your choice. If there is anyone here that has no freakin idea what they are talking about it's you. End of conversation. I am too busy to waste my time with you. Good luck to you! I have forgotten more about subs than you'll ever know dude.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  5. #125
    Abc123456789 is offline New Member
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    Default Gdjd

    Lol alright man thanks for being so arrogant for one thing I am clean I'm not on a damn thing this is the first time I've ever commented on any of these sites you obviously can't function without commenting of everyone's lives and sorry I wasn't thinking and my wording wasn't good enough for you I pray to god that you forgive me for hurting your feelings and if you must know I've been in the depths of hell in numerous combat zones in Iraq and seen ???? that you could only comment on in your little chat rooms after researching it on Google I've had friends blown up and others shot in the face which thoughts eventually led me to making bad decisions. so I appreciate how feel about me you must have alot of friends or not considering you seem to spend ur time commenting on these posts and judging people you don't even know. Next time I'm in hell ill remember I'm there wasting my time for assholes like you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    You are mistaken. You don't continue to be able to use opiates successfully with subutex. The naloxone in suboxone only keeps one from abusing the medication. Burprenorphine in both the suboxone and subutex has a blocking effect against opiates. God bless.
    AceBoogey1985 likes this.

  6. #126
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abc123456789 View Post
    Lol alright man thanks for being so arrogant for one thing I am clean I'm not on a damn thing this is the first time I've ever commented on any of these sites you obviously can't function without commenting of everyone's lives and sorry I wasn't thinking and my wording wasn't good enough for you I pray to god that you forgive me for hurting your feelings and if you must know I've been in the depths of hell in numerous combat zones in Iraq and seen ???? that you could only comment on in your little chat rooms after researching it on Google I've had friends blown up and others shot in the face which thoughts eventually led me to making bad decisions. so I appreciate how feel about me you must have alot of friends or not considering you seem to spend ur time commenting on these posts and judging people you don't even know. Next time I'm in hell ill remember I'm there wasting my time for assholes like you.



    Thank you for your service to our country, but it honestly sounds like you are suffering from PTSD. I am serious and mean that with respect! You are running around in circles.

    I only commented on your statements about using subs. Why would we suddenly shift over to watching people being blown up in Iraq? I would never attack a vet for PTSD. But your knowledge of subs is lacking.

    You just showed up here out of the blue ranting about how stupid everyone is. I can't help what you think of me, but you don't really know me well enough to know that I'm an asshole. I never said anything like that about you. I think you should seek medical attention. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  7. #127
    Abc123456789 is offline New Member
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    Like you said your not a doctor and believe me I do so you don't have to preach to me about what I need and I switched over to the comment about stuff I went through being the reason why I did the things I did junkie lol I took suboxone the way I did some times because. I stopped doing the stuff I did because I knew it was killing me and when your sick you try to figure out the fastest way not to be when it hurts as bad as it does and from my experience the only time suboxone would cause withdrawal was when taken while still having opiates in your system if I was 100%I clean it didn't matter how it was taken it didn't cause withdrawal. It caused withdrawal even if I took it under my tongue if I had any type of opiate still in my system.

  8. #128
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abc123456789 View Post
    Like you said your not a doctor and believe me I do so you don't have to preach to me about what I need and I switched over to the comment about stuff I went through being the reason why I did the things I did junkie lol I took suboxone the way I did some times because. I stopped doing the stuff I did because I knew it was killing me and when your sick you try to figure out the fastest way not to be when it hurts as bad as it does and from my experience the only time suboxone would cause withdrawal was when taken while still having opiates in your system if I was 100%I clean it didn't matter how it was taken it didn't cause withdrawal. It caused withdrawal even if I took it under my tongue if I had any type of opiate still in my system.



    the only time suboxone would cause withdrawal was when taken while still having opiates in your system if I was 100%I clean it didn't matter how it was taken it didn't cause withdrawal. It caused withdrawal even if I took it under my tongue if I had any type of opiate still in my system

    You said something there I will agree with pretty much. A person with no opiates in their system will not go into precipitated ( not premeditated ) w/d using subs. If they have opiates in their system they will suffer w/d even if it's taken sublingually. So what is it that you are wanting to argue about? I agree with that statement you made.

    If that is all you've been trying to say I'm not disagreeing with you. It's your ranting at me out of the blue that I didn't understand. I have never had one single conversation with you before and with your very first post you started screaming how stupid and ignorant everyone was here. That is what I had a problem with, and then you started talking about things that had nothing to do with anything you previously talked about. You are really angry for some reason. No one here has done anything to you.

    At least we agreed on the above comment. Why don't we leave it at that as I have no desire to argue with a vet, least of all one who is obviously very angry, whether it's PTSD or not. No I'm not a dr but I can easily see your anger, I just don't understand why it's focused on me. You don't have to even explain. God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 03-02-2012 at 07:59 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  9. #129
    dionmartin216 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by takemetowonderland View Post
    Hey yall,

    I am an opiate lover because I am very ADHD and hyperactive. It is the only thing that calms me down. I was addicted to oxys and vicodin so i started to take suboxone. I am currently on 32mg a day. I am switching to subutex tomorrow. if you take these for a few months your tolerance will increase drastically and will not produce the same feeling. although it did get me off oxy's.. ill let yall know how the subutex works!
    Hi, Did this work?How did you do? I've been taking oxycodone 30mg 4x's a day for bout 6 -8 months for spine condition neck/back pain. I bought some suboxone 8 mg. Do you think they will help me? Don't do well with withdrawal.

  10. #130
    humboldtlocal is offline New Member
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    Default Can Naloxone cause depression?

    My brief history, two years oxy abuse, smoking up to 800mg day.

    16 months on suboxone, been seriously depressed.

    2 weeks now on subutex, every day better than the last 16 months, the following is how I got there and why I think suboxone can cause depression.

    I read an article about a study about placebos that cause peoples brains to produce the brain chemicals that make you feel good, such as dopamine, seratonin, endorphins. I read in a New Yorker article that this study, to get a baseline, gave narcan aka naloxone to the patients to ELIMINATE THEIR PLACEBO PRODUCED POSITIVE BRAIN CHEMISTRY. i.e. if their brains responded to placebo and produced positive brain chemistry they used narcan/naloxone to eliminate that brain chemistry to get a baseline reading for their study.

    So it just occured to me that part of why I had been depressed for 16 months despite intensive therapy and positive life changes could be the small doses of narcan. For example while snowboarding in powder I couldn't even get stoked, now if you've ever felt god while riding powder you know how strange this would be and its indicative of my overall depression and lack of response to positive stimuli, exercise, sex, good news, etc.

    I forgot to take my suboxone for two days, and I just felt like a switch had been flipped, I felt amazing, like my old self. At that point I switched to subutex and every single day has been better than every day that I was on suboxone.

    I know this is anectodal (sp) but it just made sense to me if a scientific study used narcan to eliminate the brains "happy" amino acids, it could be doing the same thing. i.e. when I walk or exercise I should get a natural high and I believe that the naloxone in suboxone can mess with the production of your brains happy chemistry.

    Everybody's brain chemistry is so different, but I am so happy I resisted my doctors push to get on anti depressants and have made the switch to subutex. I have good days and bad but every one is better than the 16 months on suboxone.

    I wish I had the article to reference of could be more articulate, but anyone who has looked into the brain chemistry of opiate addiction and suboxone treatment should understand what I'm trying to say.

    Best of luck to everybody! And whoever said you might as well go back to dope...that is the dumbest thing I"ve ever read. If you are stable on suboxone and are scared to death of relapse and committed to recovery and in a program, what is so wrong with taking pure buprenorphine without the narcan/naloxone, which has cause problems for many people in my particular program, from headaches to depression.

    I'm down to 4mg a day and ready to step down to 2mg and just take it one day at a time.
    AceBoogey1985 likes this.

  11. #131
    humboldtlocal is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by newyorkgal View Post
    Suboxone and subutex have the exact same main active ingredient which is bupenorphine. Suboxone also has nalaxone in it which impedes people from shooting up but when taking under the tongue, it is barely absorbed and has no affect. Sometimes people experience different things when taking a generic but really, there should be no difference. If you feel better taking the suboxone, switch back. We are all different and feel drugs differently. I have never felt even the slightest buzz on either suboxone or subutex but my initial addiction was huge so maybe that's why.
    There is no study supporting your statement that naloxone has no effect. We are the guinea pigs in this cutting edge area of brain chemistry. I also have never felt a buzz but when you say something like naloxone has no effect you are perpetrating misinformation. This may have been told to you and is of course the position of the company making suboxone, but so many people feel differently on subutex just in my own program of a hundred or so that long term naloxone use must effect SOME people negatively.

    Does anybody know factually what the deal is? I see Roberts statistic of 15%, that seems about right based on what I have experienced. Do you have any more data Robert? People need to know.

    If I believed your statement I would probably be jacked up on anti-Ds and all kinds of meds. Instead, as I indicated in the above post, I had a hunch based on the use of narcan in scientific studies to eliminate the bodies production of the brains "happy" chemistry in placebo trials that Naloxone/Narcan can be absorbed by long term suboxone use that my depression was cause by the naloxone in suboxone.

    I think its important for everybody to know that subutex can be a better treatment for some people. If you are in a stable situation, it makes so much sense to me to try subutex while on a reasonable taper plan then to get on anti depressents.

    Most people in my program have been on suboxone for 5 plus years and are on anti-Ds, one or two anti anxiety medications, and will happily stay that way.

    I for one am committed to not ending up like the suboxone lifers in my program.
    I know I am mixing up issues here, but I think they are related; we all know that suboxone or subutex merely put addiction into remission so to speak and that if you want to be clean you need to have a plan to deal with your issues and eventually taper off of all medication. The more accurate information you can get about suboxone and subutex the more successful one can be using these medications.

    My hunch to get on subutex has resulted in the lifting of the depression I have been in for 16 months of suboxone use. But its only because I stumbled on the magnificent article in the New Yorker I referenced in my above post and because I was so busy I forgot to take meds for two days that I got the the chance to talk my doctor into letting me switch to subutex. Aside from starting the program itself, and beginning a taper, this has been my greatest achievement in recovery. I'm in group and therapy weekly, doing the work, but was still depressed. If I would have gone on anti-Ds I doubt I would have been committed to my taper and would have probably been one of the lifers in my program.

    I admire everybody who has tackled recovery, and in no way do I fault you for thinking naloxone has no effect, it was what I was told as well. I just want to point out that I believe this is incorrect and I think everybody on suboxone should know that if they are having trouble it could be due to the naloxone. Its hard enough being in recovery without the meds we are taking causing further problems and more drugs to become dependent on.

    I would appreciate any hard data that anybody has seen. There must be some from Europe's 20 plus years experience with these drugs. Although I doubt they had an equivalent of the DEA force the inclusion of naloxone into their formulations, so we may truly be the first group of people taking naloxone on a daily basis, and our personal experience may be the only valid data out there.

    I would like to see this thread get back to a positive track, what do you all think?

    Thank you, congratulations to everybody who is making positive changes in their life, and if you haven't yet its never too late, you are worth the effort.

    -Pablo

  12. #132
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Pablo .... This is an old thread, it's been around a long time. In defense of newyorkgal, she has been here for some time, but I don't know how old that quote from her is. She knows at this point that naloxone can adversely affect even those who use suboxone properly under the tongue. Lots of people on this forum have learned as time has gone by.

    The 15% figure of people being adversely affected by naloxone is accurate. That is based on my personal experience working with people, I don't have scientific data backing me up. I've just spent so much time doing this that I know that is an accurate figure with a small margin for error. In fact, I just told a person a few minutes ago to switch from suboxone to subutex for the very reason that I believe the naloxone is affecting them adversely.

    I prefer working with subutex in almost all situations. I don't like suboxone personally even though the naloxone doesn't affect most people. Unless someone is an IV drug user I don't believe they should be prescribed a drug that has an active ingredient contained in it that adversely affects even a small portion of the masses. And for what it's worth, depression and anxiety are both potential side effects, among others, of an adverse reaction to naloxone. And most of the countries in Europe that have used buprenorphine in Europe for many years use buprenorphine in its pure form rather than suboxone. God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 04-06-2012 at 06:54 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  13. #133
    sickman760 is offline New Member
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    If you live in Canada you should look into ibogaine therapy.

  14. #134
    cruxx0987 is offline New Member
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    Guys i have a question... i just joined this forum and joined it because there are a few of you on here that i can tell arr really knowledgable and unfortunatly i Have dug myself back into this horrible cycle of opiate abuse. I have been using for about seven years now on a daily basis except for the time period that i was in prison for about a year from Aug 11 to may 2012. Now i was on 2mg of sub when i went to jail and honestly my w/d symptoms werent that bad. They had ne on tylenol 3 and immodiun for the first few days but after that nothing. This seemed to work well and after about two weeks my withdrawls were mostly gone but before that i came off of 100mg of methadone a day cold turkey, no tylenol no nothing and it lasted almost a full month of no sleep before i broke down and took subs which instantly made me back to 100%. Then i went to jail and came off the subs too but after over a year clean i took a little piece of a stip of sub and it has been about three months back on subs at about 3mg a day. Would yall recomment quitting cold turkey or would it be easier to get down to say a 5mg vicoden and then wuit oncw the bupe is out of my system??? Is this goibg to compare to my methadone withdrawals?? Any help is much appreciated thanks

  15. #135
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    The best recommendation is to taper the subs. Please post your questions under Prescription drugs in the suboxone forum. There, you will find people who are knowledgeable in tapering. Here is the taper protocol generally used here.

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

    Read through the taper and like I said, post in the suboxone thread so people will see your posts.

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  16. #136
    blada is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abc123456789 View Post
    I would like to know if half the people that talk about suboxone or subutex have ever even been on it before or do you all just write what you hear about it. This is what is up yes suboxone has opiate blocker naloxone and subutex doesn't mainly for pregnant women that can't be on a drug that blocks other medications. Starting with suboxone it can be injected and snorted and when people say u go in to premeditated withdrawal because you do it that way is nonsense because if you put it under your tongue its doing what? The answer is the same damn thing as it would be doing if you injected it or snorted it it's going in to your blood stream ur tongue doesn't have a special filter to stop withdrawal its going in to your blood stream just the same.
    This is totally wrong. Naloxone is not active when taken orally, hence when suboxone is put under the tongue as directed the naloxone doesn't do anything. But if you try to abuse suboxone and inject it then the naloxone is active and has a stronger binding affinity than suboxone and other opiates so it knocks them off and blocks them and since naloxone is a complete antagonist it doesn't activate your receptors. And also besides just acting different if it is injected, if you swallow suboxone instead of taking it sublinqually as directed a lot of the medicine will be lost in first pass metabolism.


    Opioids like methadone, morphine, and oxycodone and the like are full agonist; when they bind they fully activates the receptors. Buprenorphine is a partial agonist / antagonist with a higher affinity for the μ-opioid receptor than opioids like morphine hence why taking buprenorphine before going in to withdrawal can precipitate a withdrawal. This has happened to me because I was on methadone which is very long lasting and even though it had been 5 days since my last dose I was still incredibly sick for a day before the suboxone came into full effect.

    So just to drive the point home, "premeditated" means something else all together, suboxone can precipitate a withdrawal.


    As far as side effects of naloxone, I have never had any. I do prefer subutex over suboxone though because subutex has just so much less mass it dissolves much faster, and the taste is pretty much the same. Instead of a gross orange chemical taste in your mouth for at least half an hour its a normal gross chemical taste for 15 minutes top. Subutex is also a lot cheaper than suboxone, but suboxone just went generic so in a few months it should drop a lot.

    I hope this helps people, as I have done a lot of research on the drug and have been on it for quite a long time.

  17. #137
    jbar2 is offline New Member
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    I had been prescribed oxycontin for 10 years due to an injury. I do not get high, drink alchohol and never have, I was physiologically dependant after building a tolerance to a very high daily dosage. Withdrawals were horrible- feeling insane, burning inside , irritable etc. Could not function for days. My doc put me on suboxone for 3 years and it is difficult to get off, its the stopping that gets you, but maybe it does somewaht depress you , personally I work out with weigths and train in bujutsu for 40 years- all my life >> wake at 4am get to gym , then work a full day, then teach/train at night regalrdless of my injuries. Once i was placed on suboxone ive never been able to wake again. In fact I have trouble making it to work at 9am. recently placed on subutex and the feeling is like night and day, suddenly my life is back, sleep improves, i feel rested. The additional med combination DOES make a difference. Personally I hate being addicted , i hate altering my mood , hate the feeling of being intoxicated etc. All i care is to not have withdrawals, I had the strips and could cut the strips into fourths and the lower i went the worse my daily functioning and sleep became and this was months of cutting down, I went 5 days with nothing and the hell got worse and worse- to the point where waking to urinate or move my bowels was a chore to the point i almost wanted to lay in my soiled ### but of course i did not. The Nalaxone must do something as they place it in the same dosage in the strips- the strips dissolve almost instantly I cant imagine anyone being able to liquify and or inject the strips. Subutes doestn come in strips- but I have been much more normalized

  18. #138
    Amslak is offline New Member
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    Hi Everyone,

    I am new to this forum as I am to taking Suboxone. I have been on Suboxone for three days and am suffering from the worst headache imaginable and nausea. I have detoxed myself off of, with the assistance of my physicians, OxyContin, Dilaudid, Xanax, Adderall and Cymbaltata over the last 6 weeks. Just before starting my Suboxene regimen (1 8mg/day) I was down to taking just (1) 20 mg. OxyContin twice/day. I was torn as to whether nor not I should just continue to taper down using 10mg. Oxy's or go on the Suboxone. My Doc suggested the Suboxone, and as I mentioned before, I just started to use it three days ago. Yesterday, I got a skull-crushing migraine and started to feel a lump in my throat, as if I was going to throw-up. I immediately felt as though these were side effects of the Sub, so yesterday I did not take any at all. This morning, I still have symptoms (headache/nausea)... I have an appt. tomorrow with my doctor and am thinking of asking him to switch me to Subutex. My questions...

    (1). Does anyone have any experience with these side effects (headache and nausea) dissipating when switched from Suboxone to Subutex?

    (2). I am looking to taper my dose and become completely drug-free as soon as possible. Which of the two, Suboxone or Subutex, allow for a quicker titration with fewer withdrawal symptoms? What is the shortest amount of time one can effectively be on either medication and then successfully taper-off? I read something posted earlier about one month of treatment for each year of opiate abuse or something like that...is there some kind of minimum suggested use period in order to "reset brain function"?

    (3). I am also looking to start a family hopefully this year. Does anyone know the protracted harmfulness of either the Suboxone or Subutex on a female's body? Does one drug have a longer half-life than the other?

    Thanks in advance to all of those knowledgeable folks that take the time to answer some or any of my questions. I am just beginning my quest for answers in a world without opiates...all good information is power.

  19. #139
    cbnelson31 is offline New Member
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    Default Suboxone doesn't make me feel right.

    Long story short. Pain pills for over 12yrs. Tried suboxone once before and just never felt right. Bought sebutex off the street for a couple months now and hadn't felt that "normal" in a very long time. Went to a dr to try to get them and he wanted me to "try things his way" and put me on suboxone strips. Its been almost a week and I am feeling very weird, aggravated, edgy, irritated, upset stomach, just all around bad! I also take sertraline 50mg and when I was taking sebutex I haven't felt so normal and clear and patient or calm in as long as I can remember. I know its the same medication except for naloxone, but its very, very different! What should I do? Hopefully he will switch me to sebutex this time when i go back. Advice??

  20. #140
    cheeky is offline Diamond Member
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    what dose are you on..? sometimes if the dose is too high you feel wierd, edgy, irritated, all the things you mention...

    dont forget tho, that subs are still an opiate, and at some stage you will have to taper off them also...

    if you are not at risk of injecting, there should be no reason your doctor wont let you switch back to subutex, as the naloxone is there specifically to stop iv injection or snorting them.... you could ask again...

    good luck

  21. #141
    tubes5150 is offline New Member
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    Default SUBOXONE NOW A WHITE PILL with Half Moon(D) AND THE #'S 155 Printed on Pill

    I am praying, that the original posted comment , by JAYBIS dated Oct. 2006 , has finally completed his Detox program . Lord have Mercy !! And I also hope that he/she did not stick to their Subutex program . It just seems like he/she was not educated that much on the subject . And keep in mind that the post was created in 2006 . That is a long time ago !! He/she may have been one of the first people to be on Subutex .But anyway----- I have been on Suboxone (2 8mg tablets a day), for going on 3 years now . I am also on depression medication and non-narcotic pain meds as well . Now I get sad , depressed , angry --mood swings- all the time . But thats because I'm human !! My life is a hell of a lot better than it ever was !! --Long story short -- Got out of the Navy in 1991 . Started having back problems like you wouldn't believe . Started small -- 5 mg Vikes to 10 mg Percs to 20 mg. Oxys to 40 to 60 to 80 etc. etc. I have been on these meds since 1996 , and drank my face off thru all of those years on top of it . (But that still wasn't enough)--- Started using >>>>>> for about a year and a half , until the big intervention !! ---( I have been married since 1992 and have 3 kids as well ). Well they had enough finally!! I went to rehab on Jan 1 2011 . I have been clean and sober since . -- Now some people think that taking Suboxone is like cheating thru your sobriety . Well , when you think of the kind of life I was living (oh the constant withdraws - the chase -- the sickness etc. etc.)- Well - I'd rather be doing what I'm doing now compared to that living nightmare!! I am part of a great program with help from the Veterans Hospital Recovery Program . ---- (NOW WHERE WAS I ???---OH-!) -I was taking the Suboxone orange 8mg tablets all this time . I just went to the doctors this past Thursday , and when I picked up my script , I went back to the pharmacist to ask what the heck were these white pills with a letter D and the #'s 155 ??? He said that they are the 'newer' Suboxone . To be honest , I liked the orange better . But I think -- and I am asking others --- that they seem to work faster . I could be wrong but that is what I think . (could just be in my head). Anyone else like to share their experience? ---Now back to JAYBIS-- I had a friend who was on Subutex . He thought that life was great on them because he could still drink every now and then- and also --cheat on the weekends by taking Oxy and Percs . Well that didn't work out so well for him and his wife and 2 kids . Because he is no longer with us . OD'd !! -- So please consider Suboxone insted of Subutex !! I don't care how strong you think you are , or how weak you think you are .Everyday its a battle !! I am so thankful that I still have my wife and kids !! (they could of kicked me to the curb a long time ago)!! Everyday is a struggle , but having Suboxone in my life , is keeping me alive another day . God Bless You All !!!!!!!!!!!!

  22. #142
    tubes5150 is offline New Member
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    You should see a neurologist for the headaches . I have been taking Suboxone for 3 years now and I don't think I've had any other side effects , other than constipation . Its hard to tell which one of the meds I am prescibed gives me 'side effects'. I am also on depression, anxiety pills and non-narcotic meds as well . But other than all that ----- How are you getting your Oxy's ?? Is a doctor prescribing them for you ?? Does he know that you are lowering your doseage ?? Are you in chronic pain ??? Just seems strange that your doctor is kind of leaving it up to you on whether or not you should take 20 mg Oxy vs Suboxone .(?) You seem like a young girl who is trying to sort out her life . You are thinking of starting a family ???? Please get off and stay off everything !!! TRUST ME !! You don't want a baby (or two) when you are on Oxy or Subs !! If you are as young as I think you are , get help now to get off everything !! You'll be o.k. !!! I am not a doctor but I don't think that you or any other 'mother-to-be' should be on Suboxone or Subutex . -- Check into a rehab and they will help you detox . It does work !!!!!!! I don't really know what else to say except I'll be praying that you make the right choices !! I don't want to see another life gone bad due to drugs and alcohol .

  23. #143
    Tattoomickey is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlconner View Post
    how can people say that suboxone and or subutex isnt "abusable"? the town i live in suboxone is the most sought after drug on the street and not so they can feel better they do it to get high...if youre not on any kind of opiate and you snort either subys or subutex it only takes about a quarter to get you high. its changing one addiction to another and its not easy to come off of either drug. i know people that will pay up to $40 for a regular 8mg suboxone and up to $55 (if not more) for a subutex. and im not perscribed to either one of them but ive done both of them and still do but i do so to stay off other stuff.and it does work but its harder to stop taking the drug thats supposed to save lives...
    You don't have a clue what you're talking about. You can't abuse Suboxone and achieve ANY sort of opiate high. The body only absorbs 65% of the strip and even if you got 100% of it in your blood stream your body will not react to more than 32mgs period. It's not physically possible. Subutex can be snorted and injected but the 32mg rule still applies to the buprenorphine. The Naloxone in the Suboxone prevents the snorting and shooting aspect. Again even if you had a way to chemically separate the two so it wouldn't send you in to detox mode, you still can't absorb more than 32mgs.
    I'm not just a recovering addict I'm a licensed Pharmacist with nearly 18 years of studying these chemicals and the way the body breaks them down. If someone you know is paying $30-40 for Suboxone or Subutex they are most likely doing so to maintain between opiate use.

  24. #144
    CrimesoftheMind is offline New Member
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    Hello. This is my first time here. In fact, this is my first post on a site like this. So please bear with me. I hope I don't go on too long. I guess I'm not sure of the proper etiquette.

    I am 33 years old and have been taking suboxone for more than 8 years. When I was in my younger 20's I was prescribed vicodin after suffering an injury. Not long after that my mother killed herself. I was the one who found her. My father had passed away already, just 2 days after my 7th birthday actually. After my father died, my mother had become a heavy alcoholic and very abusive. Still though, I did the best I could to take care of her. In the end though, her grief, and her own personal depression from her childhood eventually lead her to that sad demise.
    Anyway, I obviously was very depressed, and in fact was suffering from PTSD. The vicodin I was taking never really helped with any pain, it actually just gave me a lot of energy. But after mom passed I started taking way too much. It allowed me to work so much (I am a mason/concrete&block) and it numbed my soul. I was basically self medicating. After a couple of years like that I realized I was either going to kill myself, or end up a junky on the streets. Or both. So I went looking for help. I have no family left really, just my 2 brothers who are older and hard core messed up on drugs and alcohol... But I found a detox and then out patient and so forth.... Which is when and where I started the suboxone.
    The thing is... Before I went for real help I tried to stop on my own. I was successful. But I was left weak physically, and no motivation. Plus the mental health thing blind sided me while withdrawing to the point of insanity. I was losing it. Plus time was always against me... I couldnt just lay there sick any more or after the sick was done just left too weak to work. So I didnt want to lose my apartment and end up homeless again. (when I was 17 mom went to prison for 3 years and I was left homeless for a couple years) So I went for that help and they put me on suboxone to help me get stable... The dr actually told me this and Ill never forget it... he said while I am taking suboxone my brain will heal itself from the damage the vicodin and oxy did.
    So... 8 years later. I have tried so many times to get off this suboxone and I cant. I have tried a taper down to the smallest amount I could make. I tried to just stop, and at the end of the 3rd month I was still as sick as I had been the 3rd week. See... Now I have the help of disability, so time isnt really a factor... If I could go back to the beginning and do a few week kick like I did the vicodin/oxy >> be fine eventually.. but this suboxone is literally killing me. my thyroid shut down, my testosterone went so low that my dr freaked out and sent me for an MRI convinced the only thing could cause that was a tumor or blood clot in my pituitary... MRI was clean. They finally decided it was the naloxone that was probably doing this. But my regular dr who freaked about the testosterone is different from the dr who prescribes my suboxone. so when I brought all of this to his attention and showed him the writeups from the specialist he had nothing to say other than to take testosterone injections. So now I cant have kids. and my thyroid is still messed. The endocrinologist looked into it and suggested subutex. I asked my suboxone dr. He dismissed it in 5 seconds and said there is no advantage to subutex over suboxone just do the testosterone injections.
    I realize now that the dr lied to me years ago when he told me suboxone would heal my brain. Suboxone has caused me more harm than the vicodin ever did. Sure I took too much but I had energy then. I was able to laugh then. Even while dealing with a world of trauman and hardship. But ever since this suboxone i have started to fall apart. I dont write anymore. I dont listen to music any more. I cant think like i used to. I was so creative and i was fun and just different all around.
    Ive talked to the dr. his answer... More meds. effexor, topomax, trazadone, anything he could think of. nothing helps. So I stopped them all. They were all harder to kick than vicodin ever was but I did it... All thats left is suboxone... But I was thinking of trying one more time to beg him to let me try subutex if it will help.... If he wont do it then I dont see any other choice... Ill have to buy vicodin on the street and get readdicted to that for 3 to 5 months and then kick that all over again. But I havent taken that >>>> since 12/3/05 and i dont want to take it... but i do want to live. but this isnt living. this i wouldnt even classify as existing. this is just miserably waiting to die slowly. not too mention suboxone makes me chain smoke like a fruitcake. lol yeah that lol was just out of habbit... i didnt really laugh. :/

    Anybody? Ideas?

    I had a dream when I was a kid. All I ever wanted to be was a good father, and a good husband. I just wanted to have a family and a house and a dog and a cat... But right now all I have is suboxone and a fading dream... thank god my girlfriend is amazing... >> probably already be gone if I didnt have someone else i am responsible for... well.. my kitten is pretty awesome too but you get the point.

    Why wont my dr let me at least try subutex? I never messed with needles.. I hate needles...especially the one he suggested i stick in my shoulder for testosterone.. its a big 20g thing hurts like hell...

  25. #145
    april3681 is offline New Member
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    Default You got this!!

    So have you had the chance to talk to your doctor again? It makes me sick that your doctor thinks he has that control over you. If he doesn't want to switch to Subutex is finding a different doctor an option? I hope and pray that it is.

    This is my first post. I'm working on my homework and came across this thread and read your post. Your story broke my heart. I wish I could just give you a hug and make it all better. That's the momma bear in me.
    Don't let your dreams fade away. Look how far you have come in life, just the short time that you've been here. You're young, I know this cause I'm 33 also. lol Seriously you've come so far especially after enduring so much, more than alot of people could ever imagine. I know it seems rough but look, you just got off of all the other meds, that's a great start, get your thyroid under control, testosterone shot, I know needles are rough but if it'll help then at least you have that option, and most importantly switch to Subutex. These things are bumps in the road compared to the things you've went through in life already. Things will get better. Please don't go back to vicodin or any other opiate just to have to start over. It's not worth it. There has to be another doctor that would help you. Maybe the endocrinologist could refer you one.
    I wish I could my fiance to switch from suboxone to subutex. I know it would help enormously with his mood swings and attitude but I'm terrified because he was a needle user. Although he's been on suboxone he's been clean for 2 years today, Thank God! Funny, he's also a brick/block mason.
    I really hope you can get your doctor to switch to subutex, or find another doctor that will. I'm thankful that you have such an amazing girlfriend that is standing by your side... and a wittle kitty kat.

    Hope you are enjoying your Easter!
    God Bless, April

  26. #146
    CrimesoftheMind is offline New Member
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    Hi there April. And thank you for your comments. That was really so very nice of you to take the time to write a response to my post. I figured the least I could do is respond a little to your post.

    First I would like to answer some of your questions. You had asked me if I could switch Drs. Well the simple answer is obviously yes. However, each Dr I have been to has treated me, and responded to me the same way. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the demographic of people who have to take suboxone Drs treat us with little to no trust. They are so used to being lied to by all of their patients, even when presented with documents from other drs, they still feel our motives are all drug seeking.

    I have seen my dr twice since I last posted here. Both times we only spoke for 5 minutes. He didnt even give me the chance to speak to him about this stuff again. My next appointment is coming up soon. I have decided to assert myself at this next appointment. He is going to listen to me this time. I have also done a ton of research on the matter. I am going to load him up with my findings, and once more request that he allow me to try subutex for a while. If it works then great. However, if it does not work, or if he wont make the switch, then I am going to taper my dose once more and kick this >>>> once and for all.

    I hope everything works out for you and your boyfriend. He can, and will make it if he can make the right choice for himself. As you said before, we are all so young still, we should all have so much life to look forward to. But it definitely helps us when we have good people in our corner, and he has you! He is lucky to have you. I dont even know you and Im totally thankful for you. The fact that you cared at all to post on my behalf was enough to change my whole outlook for today. That means a lot to me. More than I could ever convey on here.

    P.S. Tiny just had a b-day. He is 15 weeks as of this past wed. He is such a good kitten.... so full of life. Having him these past nine weeks has changed everything. Its not as big as having a kid, but close enough that it still encourages me to fight for myself. And that is something that I began to give up on long ago. Things are different now. I am starting to care again. Its always the little things that can spark enough to make the big differences. Thank you so much for your time and your hugs and your insight. It means a lot to me.

    ~...and so fell the weight I never can lift. Behind us the darkness, between us the rift...~

  27. #147
    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey, Crimesofthemind: How much suboxone are you taking daily? It is possible to taper this and get off of this medicine, PERIOD. I am going to post a taper method for you, however, being a long time user you may have to adjust the period between drops. You cannot just jump off of a high dose of sub and expect to feel better in a few weeks: you've been on a long time and it's going to take your brain awhile to heal. Your doc is a total idiot to say that the subs would heal your mind: Subs are a tool for getting off opiates: when used long term you become dependent/addicted to the sub. Subs are an opiate.

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

    I do not know about the things going on with your testosterone and your thyroid. But if you want to post in the Suboxone Treatment forum, there are other long time users there who can help and perhaps advise you better than I can. Good Luck to you

    Peace,

    Iloerose

  28. #148
    Iwantoff2013 is online now Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimesoftheMind View Post
    Hello. This is my first time here. In fact, this is my first post on a site like this. So please bear with me. I hope I don't go on too long. I guess I'm not sure of the proper etiquette.

    I am 33 years old and have been taking suboxone for more than 8 years. When I was in my younger 20's I was prescribed vicodin after suffering an injury. Not long after that my mother killed herself. I was the one who found her. My father had passed away already, just 2 days after my 7th birthday actually. After my father died, my mother had become a heavy alcoholic and very abusive. Still though, I did the best I could to take care of her. In the end though, her grief, and her own personal depression from her childhood eventually lead her to that sad demise.
    Anyway, I obviously was very depressed, and in fact was suffering from PTSD. The vicodin I was taking never really helped with any pain, it actually just gave me a lot of energy. But after mom passed I started taking way too much. It allowed me to work so much (I am a mason/concrete&block) and it numbed my soul. I was basically self medicating. After a couple of years like that I realized I was either going to kill myself, or end up a junky on the streets. Or both. So I went looking for help. I have no family left really, just my 2 brothers who are older and hard core messed up on drugs and alcohol... But I found a detox and then out patient and so forth.... Which is when and where I started the suboxone.
    The thing is... Before I went for real help I tried to stop on my own. I was successful. But I was left weak physically, and no motivation. Plus the mental health thing blind sided me while withdrawing to the point of insanity. I was losing it. Plus time was always against me... I couldnt just lay there sick any more or after the sick was done just left too weak to work. So I didnt want to lose my apartment and end up homeless again. (when I was 17 mom went to prison for 3 years and I was left homeless for a couple years) So I went for that help and they put me on suboxone to help me get stable... The dr actually told me this and Ill never forget it... he said while I am taking suboxone my brain will heal itself from the damage the vicodin and oxy did.
    So... 8 years later. I have tried so many times to get off this suboxone and I cant. I have tried a taper down to the smallest amount I could make. I tried to just stop, and at the end of the 3rd month I was still as sick as I had been the 3rd week. See... Now I have the help of disability, so time isnt really a factor... If I could go back to the beginning and do a few week kick like I did the vicodin/oxy >> be fine eventually.. but this suboxone is literally killing me. my thyroid shut down, my testosterone went so low that my dr freaked out and sent me for an MRI convinced the only thing could cause that was a tumor or blood clot in my pituitary... MRI was clean. They finally decided it was the naloxone that was probably doing this. But my regular dr who freaked about the testosterone is different from the dr who prescribes my suboxone. so when I brought all of this to his attention and showed him the writeups from the specialist he had nothing to say other than to take testosterone injections. So now I cant have kids. and my thyroid is still messed. The endocrinologist looked into it and suggested subutex. I asked my suboxone dr. He dismissed it in 5 seconds and said there is no advantage to subutex over suboxone just do the testosterone injections.
    I realize now that the dr lied to me years ago when he told me suboxone would heal my brain. Suboxone has caused me more harm than the vicodin ever did. Sure I took too much but I had energy then. I was able to laugh then. Even while dealing with a world of trauman and hardship. But ever since this suboxone i have started to fall apart. I dont write anymore. I dont listen to music any more. I cant think like i used to. I was so creative and i was fun and just different all around.
    Ive talked to the dr. his answer... More meds. effexor, topomax, trazadone, anything he could think of. nothing helps. So I stopped them all. They were all harder to kick than vicodin ever was but I did it... All thats left is suboxone... But I was thinking of trying one more time to beg him to let me try subutex if it will help.... If he wont do it then I dont see any other choice... Ill have to buy vicodin on the street and get readdicted to that for 3 to 5 months and then kick that all over again. But I havent taken that >>>> since 12/3/05 and i dont want to take it... but i do want to live. but this isnt living. this i wouldnt even classify as existing. this is just miserably waiting to die slowly. not too mention suboxone makes me chain smoke like a fruitcake. lol yeah that lol was just out of habbit... i didnt really laugh. :/

    Anybody? Ideas?

    I had a dream when I was a kid. All I ever wanted to be was a good father, and a good husband. I just wanted to have a family and a house and a dog and a cat... But right now all I have is suboxone and a fading dream... thank god my girlfriend is amazing... >> probably already be gone if I didnt have someone else i am responsible for... well.. my kitten is pretty awesome too but you get the point.

    Why wont my dr let me at least try subutex? I never messed with needles.. I hate needles...especially the one he suggested i stick in my shoulder for testosterone.. its a big 20g thing hurts like hell...
    Hi there. I've been on Subutex for over 7 years and am currently tapering off (I'm down to .66 mg). I know how hard it is to get off this stuff, especially after so many years. I know exactly what you mean about opiates/subs making you numb to everything good in life.

    I suppose your doctor hasn't allowed you to take Subutex because Suboxone has naltrexone in it which is supposed to prevent shooting/snorting. I know you said you've never done that - me neither- but I'm assuming that's his reason. As you know, the main ingredient in both drugs is buprenorphine. From everyone I've talked to here and otherwise, they're both hard to come off of after years of use.

    May I ask -- how did you taper the Suboxone? I'm curious because there's a taper plan that most of us on the "Suboxone Treatment" board use to get off subs. Have you read any threads on the Suboxone board? I would definitely recommend that you copy and paste your first post into a new thread on that board. This particular board is rather slow.

    The taper plan we use - written by retired member Robert_325 - calls for a reduction of 25% at a time. Although the plan recommends reducing your dose every 4 days, that is only for people who are new to subs. Long-time users like you and I need to taper slower. I drop my dose every 2 weeks. Ultimately, it depends on how quickly you stabilize at each dose.

    Come on over to the Suboxone Treatment board! There are many of us there currently tapering off, as well as others who have used the plan successfully and are now clean. I'll post the taper link for you ...just need to get on my laptop first.

    Have faith. It can be done!
    Kat

  29. #149
    Iwantoff2013 is online now Advanced Member
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    EDIT TO ABOVE:

    I see that Rose and I were posting to you at the same time. I'm glad she posted the link for you. Take a look at the taper plan. Don't worry about "induction" as you're already taking subs.

    See you on the Suboxone board.
    Kat

  30. #150
    Madness_92 is offline New Member
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    PLEASE READ

    [SIZE=3]I just want to clear up some misinformation i have been seeing all over the internet about this topic.

    First of all, Subutex is a brand name medication with Buprenorphine HCL as the active ingredient.
    Suboxone also contains Buprenorphine HCL, as well as Naloxone HCL

    Buprenorphine is a semi-synthetic, opioid receptor modulator that is used to treat opioid addiction in higher dosages. It is described as either a partial agonist, or mixed agonist/antagonist of the opioid receptors. Basically, this means that it activates the receptors, but not fully, so in opiate tolerant individuals it handles the withdrawal symptoms and soothes the cravings without the euphoric intoxicating high that other full agonists such as >>>>>> provide.
    Buprenorphine has an extremely high binding affinity for your opiate receptors; much higher than any commonly abused opiates. Because of this, THE BUPRENORPHINE ITSLEF ACTS AS A BLOCKER, WHICH PREVENTS OTHER OPIATES FROM BEING ABLE TO REACH YOUR RECEPTORS! It is even capable of precipitating withdrawal symptoms by itself, without Naloxone, because its binding affinity is so strong, if you have any opiates attached to your receptors, it will push them out of the way causing withdrawal symptoms. (I have exprienced this first hand). So, Buprenorphine alone has its own abuse prevention mechanism. The Naloxone is not needed for this reason.

    Naloxone HCL is a pure opioid antagonist. It is used to counter the effects of opioid overdose, such as >>>>>> or morphine specifically the life-threatening depression of the central nervous system, respiratory system, and hypotension secondary to opiate overdose.
    HOWEVER, BUPRENORPHINE HAS A HIGHER BINDING AFFINITY THAN NALOXONE, WHICH MEANS IT IS NOT STRONG ENOUGH TO REMOVE BUPRENORPHINE FROM YOUR RECEPTORS. As long as there are no other opiates in your body, you can successfuly inject Suboxone and the Naloxone will have no major effects. (Again, i speak from first hand experience)

    Given this information, you may ask "Why then is Naloxone a necessary ingredient in Suboxone?"
    Well, the fact of the matter is that clinically, it is not a necessary ingredient. The only reason it was added was so Reckitt Benckiser could patent the formula, market it as superior or "abuse proof" and secure their profits from this medication.

    In my opinion, Buprenorphine alone, without the Naloxone is equally if not more effective treatment for opiate addiction. From my experience with both, i prefer subutex, because it does not have that awful chemical orange flavor, and it does not give me nausea or headaches. I believe these are side effects caused by the Naloxone which is a useless ingredient anyway. SIZE]

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