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Subutex versus Suboxone
  1. #91
    Freaux is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    I'm happy for you that you're taking a new medication but 32mg is three to four times as much medication as you need. I know I'm right. They are messing you up. Drs RXing 32mg are terribly confused. If you want some help let me know. God bless.
    I agree, a daily dose that high should have only been taken for a short period of time(two weeks or so}. Then decreased to at least half of that if its to be taken for long period of time. Also, it sounds like you replaced one drug with another which doesn't help with an addiction.

  2. #92
    Faerie_gurl is offline New Member
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    Default Please help!!!! Please someone

    i apologize in advance for the long post but i've been trying to get help on another forum/site & am desperate for advice TODAY. Rob, u seem knowledgeable so i hope u still read this.

    I was taking Suboxone for a while in rehab & got off it no prob but was totally stupid & started taking it again when i got out & have been on it for a yr & a half now. I'm down from 8 mg to abt 3-4 mg per day. Unfortunately, i used it as a chance to act out my addiction & injected it for over a yr. I NEVER got high off it, justaddicted to the ritual of injecting. But i had a HUGE life-changing experience the past few wks. I had a HORRIBLE reaction to shooting the Suboxone: rapid heartrate around 120 bpm, labored breathing, heaviness in my chest, horrible lightheadedness, extreme hunger feeling but simultaneous total lack of appetite, nausea, and reddening of the skin on my chest & sometimes on my face, sometimes sweats.

    So i stopped injecting & started taking it sublingually but i am having the same reaction sometimes just as bad. So i went to my dr & he said i'm prob allergic to the Suboxone. Weird to develop an allergy after so long, but who knows was awful stuff i was doing to mybody by injecting. So i stopped taking it for 4 days.

    I was commited to getting off it but it was hell. By day 4 i wanted to kill myself. Of course i had to quit pretty much cold turkey. Hadnt slept in 3 days, extreme arm & leg spasms at nighy kept me tossing violently all night for three nights w/ no sleep. Couldn't eat, dizzy all the time.

    Finally my husband threatened to leave me. While i denied the withdrawal, he's been thru it w/ me before & it was ruining our vacation we were supposed to go on. When i read online that the detox horrors usually last ten days i finally relented. It's the hardest thing i've ever done b/c i want to get off this stuff. But i took a little suboxone & i've been taking tiny amts every 8 hrs or whenever i can't stand the withdrawal anymore. But i still feel like ????. Dizzy, can't eat half the time. Have to take the stuff at night then go to sleep right away but wake up 6 hrs later on the nose & can't sleep again. Have lost a lot of weight.

    Anyway, i think i might have developed an allergy or intolerance to the naloxone so i was thinking of asking my dr abt putting me on a very small dose of Subutex. I NEVER EVER want to shoot anything again. My near-death experience last time i did that changed my life. I just want to get on with my life for now & get off everything very soon, but i'm going thru a huge life-changing move in a cpl months & i just can't do the withdrawal immediately. But i'd like ur help w/ the taper when i do go thru it if ur still on this site.

    So my questions are: do u think i could have an allergy/intolerance to the naloxone & that's what's causing my symptoms? So maybe if i switch to the Subutex I would be able to breathe, not be dizzy anymore, etc? Also, will it be harder for me to get off the Subutex than the Suboxone? B/c the Suboxone is like the devil leaving my body very slowly & cruelly & i don't think i can deal w/ something worse than that.


    Please give advise & hurry b/c i need to stop being so sick. I just want to feel better first so i can do the things necesssaryto set up my new life & new job in a few months, then i'll deal with the detox again.

  3. #93
    Faerie_gurl is offline New Member
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    Default Forgot to add...

    i read somewhere that if ur allergic to the naloxone that u should let the suboxone dissolve under ur tongue but don't swallow the saliva. Spit it out then wash out ur mouth. So i started doing that as soon as i went back on the Suboxone after being off it for 4 days.

    I can say that the negative reaction has decreased markedly, but i'm sti having enough of a negative reaction that it prevents me from doing my normal activities like cooking, yoga, & sometimes even working (sitting at a computer & occasionally getting up). The dizziness / lightheadedness is now one of the worste symptoms b/c it makes me feel weak all the time & i also still have a partial loss of appetite.

    I think i've narrowed down the window of reaction. I get uncomfortable anywhere from 20 min to an hour after taking it then it takes abt 3-4 hrs after that for me not to be dizzy anymore. Then i'm pretty much fine from the 4 hr mark to abt when i start to get the jumpy legs from the withdrawal abt 6-9 hrs later. Taking it at night beefore bed helps but i still need to take it a least once during the day & that's quite uncomfortable.

  4. #94
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Sounds like you put yourself into precipitated w/d injecting the suboxone. You need to stop it completely to get out of the w/d. You have continued taking it and never got out of the problem casused from the injections. If you do that and wait until your w/d get bad enough to score a 26 or higher on the COWS worksheet I can likely re-induct you at a small dose if you will take it properly like I ask you to. Here is a link to the COWS (clinical opioid w/d scale) worksheet. Let me know if you want me to re-induct you properly AFTER you sweat this out and get the subs completely out of your system. It will be unpleasant leading up to the induction but you wouldn't suddenly develop an allergic reaction to naloxone after all this time. Hope that helps. God bless.

    http://www.drugs.com/resources/opioi...wal-record.pdf
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  5. #95
    Faerie_gurl is offline New Member
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    Not trying to be difficult, but I think maybe I missed including a few crucial details in my post, b/c I'm not sure the response makes sense. Or maybe I'm just misunderstanding.

    I was injecting it for about a year, maybe more. There were a few times that I couldn't, so I would take it sublingually and I was fine except for some (sometimes bad) tiredness if I had to do that for more than one dose. When I had the bad reaction, I had been only injecting. Then I switched to injecting extremely small doses and taking extremely small sublingual doses, b/c I had no idea what was going on or how to fix it.

    Eventually I just stopped injecting it. Then, when my dr said I might actually be allergic, I stopped taking it altogether. I was off it for four days and was a level 28 on the chart you sent me, which I have seen before.

    Once I couldn't do the detox anymore b/c of my situation at home, I started w/ very small doses (sublingually, as I will never inject anything again) about every 8 or so hrs.

    Maybe some of that was missing in other posts?

  6. #96
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Faerie_gurl ...... Subs are NOT made to be injected. The naloxone is designed to make you get sick when you abuse the subs in that manner. So that is why I said you got sick. Maybe it didn't happen for some time, I can't explain that, but shooting subs is not part of recovery. That is a fact.

    I've done this a long time and about 15% of the entire population has adverse effects from naloxone. You would have noticed it immediately if you were part of that group. Those people have such a terrible reaction that I can pick them out in a couple posts. You don't develop a tolerance to it or an allergic reaction over time. It just doesn't work that way.

    No way that you should spit out your saliva and wash your mouth out with subs. You'll end up spitting out part of your medication. I've had this discussion over and again on the forum and it's just plain not true.

    Also you don't take subs every 8 hours. They are meant to be taken either once or twice maximum per day. They have a 72 hour half life which is three days. So repeatedly taking subs throughout the day is addictive behavior.

    I'm not trying to chastize you. I'm simply explaining that you haven't used the subs correctly since day one as far as I can tell from your posts. I am posting a link to follow as to how I did it and how I've worked with others here on subs for years. I have been clean for nine years after using for 35 years, so I know what I'm talking about and I know how to use subs to their maximum potential. I suggest that you read the link closely.

    Subutex has no naloxone, it's pure buprenophine, is available in an inexpensive generic and I like it best, but if you are going to take your subs IV at all I can not help you. If after you read the link and still want my help let me know. I simply require that you trust me and follow the instructions that I give you to the letter. You do that and I can have you off the subs relatively painlessly in a couple months. If you do it the way you've described in the past subs won't work for you. God bless.

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  7. #97
    peahead is offline New Member
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    Mystasia79 - would you care to send me an email? I would like to ask you a question

    Thank You!
    Last edited by ddcmod; 08-01-2011 at 03:37 PM.

  8. #98
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Why would you ask someone who posted ONE TIME in 2009, two years ago, to email you? I doubt that peahead will be replying considering how long it's been since being here.
    Last edited by ddcmod; 08-01-2011 at 03:38 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  9. #99
    badboyspencer is offline New Member
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    Cool Subutex

    Hi I am 21 I have been on subutex for about a year and a half now. Let me say it's been the best year of my life to feel almost normal again. The years before I was snorting Roxies and Oxys for about 3 years never shot up though I just don't have the heart for that. Those were the worse 3 years of my life I stole, lied, and cheated my way though life! Not a good way to live.Also it was more than just pills, coke, weed (lot o weed), x, acid, crack, anything about that you could think of I would do if getting my hands on it. But now I am against all of that and have no edge to do any drugs I love love being sober great day to all!

  10. #100
    Lauren Caruso is offline New Member
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    Default Buprenorphine vs Suboxone

    I've been on Suboxone since Feb 2004. I have a chronic back disorder, which degenerates my disks slowly but surely. I had back surgery 12/99 because I had sciatica and could NOT deal with that pain. I'd rather give birth once a week for the rest of my life, than go through that sciatica!
    Anyway, 1.5 yrs after the surgery, the next disk upward on my spine started doing the same degeneration. My surgeon said, I have "one of those backs" and as long as sciatica doesn't kick in, I should be able to manage. Well, that was all well and good, but I had no idea what management meant. I didn't realize it meant taking narcotics for the rest of my life. I tried pain management with narcotics for 2 years, but that didn't work because I would build up a tolerance for the opiate. At one point I had 50 mg fentanyl patches, a script for 100 norcos, and 150 percocet. That was for one month. Plus effexor, and 2 others I can't recall. I went from not even taking advil to all that. It was awful. Then when I started tolerating that huge monthly cocktail, I said no more. I went into detox, the withdrawl was unbelieveable, and then I was consulted on this new medication for opiate addiction. My concern was how was I going to manage my pain once I was detoxed. That's when I started taking Suboxone, and I have been on it ever since. Over 6 years. It's THE only medication that keeps my pain manageable, and I have never built up a tolerance. I've been taking the same dose for years. It has been a tremendous help. The medication is very expensive, but I had insurance that helped a great deal. In 2006, I couldn't afford the insurance anymore, so I began paying for my script myself. The dose I have been stabilized on is 2/8mg a day. That's $400 without insurance. I was in Chicago when I started Suboxone, and then when we moved to Arkansas, it was 1 year before I found a DR that would take me on maintenance. I was flying to Chicago every other month to see my Dr. He couldn't call in or fax a script from out of state. It was risking his career. Then my Chicago Dr got involved and called several Dr's in Arkansas. He found one to take me in Little Rock, and that's a 4 hour drive one way. Fine.....I'll deal with it. So it's been quite a journey.

    Fast Forward a few years......Then they came out with the films and said it would be cheaper, but it wasn't. Now I'm getting to my question......a few months ago my Arkansas Dr informed me that a generic for Suboxone was in the works.....YAY!! It took my pharmacy a while to get it, I guess it has something to do with how many scripts she fills each month, as to how easy it is for her to get it. I am a sure thing. I will be in every 30 days to fill my script. So she got it for me. It's Buprenorphine, instead of Suboxone. It's a little tiny white pill, and is the equivalent to an 8mg suboxone film.
    My question is will the Burenorphine treat the pain in the same way Suboxone did? Or will I start to build a tolerance? That is my fear. If there is no naloxone, will it work the same way? I'm a bit concerned. Suboxone has made living my life without pain possible. I would choose a $400 script over the $84.00 script if I'm gonna be needing more and more to effectively treat my chronic back disorder.

  11. #101
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Lauren ..... Naloxone has nothing to do with the pain relief. Naloxone is only added to suboxone to keep people from using it IV. The half life of naloxone is only a few hours so it's in and out of your system in almost no time. Naloxone places you in precipitated w/d if you are injecting suboxone or other opiates and then immediately use the suboxone.

    The generic is from subutex. It's just buprenorphine without the naloxone. It's the buprenorphine that actually helps with the pain, not the naloxone, so you should not have any problems using the much less expensive buprenorphine generic vs the suboxone..

    16mg is a very high dose but I won't get into that unless you care to discuss it. Hope that helps. God bless.
    Lauren Caruso likes this.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  12. #102
    Lauren Caruso is offline New Member
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    Thanks for your reply Robert.

    In the beginning, I was not thrilled about trading one addiction for another. You've got to be in some pretty deep denial to not see that. It is what it is.
    After going through what was a self destructive (perpetrated by medical professionals) pain management routine, I have to say taking a drug that I do not build a tolerance for.......it beats the s_ _ t out of the alternative. The alternative? Dealing with this pain, or returning to pain meds. Neither are very appealing, and not an option for me. So, my only concern is tolerance. Because I WILL go back on Suboxone if I build tolerance on Subutex.

    I have never shot anything, so that is not an issue.

    Yes. I am aware that 16mg is a rather high dosage......We tried cutting that in half, but the pain was creeping back. I'm no kid Robert.....I'll be 55 next month. I got through my whole life with no addiction issues, till I was in my 40's......go figure. Anyway.....maybe 12 mg would be doable. I think I will try that, after I call my Dr of course.

    In retrospect, I have to say that to find a drug that 1)isn't going to kill my organs, 2)manages a debilitating chronic pain, 3)doesn't build up a tolerance in my body.......is the answer to my problem. I would LOVE to not have to take anything, but because my spinal disorder is chronic it looks like I will be taking either subutex or suboxone for the rest of my life. It is what it is.

    I read all the previous posts in this forum, and you are offering some very sound advise. You don't play into people's manipulations. And you offer a comfortable, controlled tapering of these drugs, for people who don't have pain. I think that is worth it's weight in gold.

  13. #103
    Lauren Caruso is offline New Member
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    Specifically........God Bless You Robert.....for all you have done for Jodie, Crystal and all the other expectant mothers, desperate to get clean and stay there. I respect & admire these women for putting their unborn baby first and foremost. ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
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  14. #104
    cat6677 is offline New Member
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    Default subutex

    First time here,not sure if i am posting in the right place.I have been taking 84 15mg oxys and 175 10/325mg hydrocodone each month for the last 2 1/2 years. for the last 10 days i have tapered off by taking only 4 hydros a day for 5 days then 2 a day for 3 days then 1 a day for 2 days. today my doc gave me 8mg of subutex to take 8mg a day for a week, then 6mg a day for a week, then 4mg a day for a week, then go see him again. i was in full withdrawal today-vomiting,diarrea(sp?),ho t flashes,cold chills,sweating, anxious,upset,depressed,and the worst restless leg syndrome ever. i feel my legs, i cant stand,sit,lie down,drive. cant sleep at all. i took 4mg subutex 11 hours ago,as directed by doc and the wd's stopped within 15 minutes. it is absolute heaven. then i took 2 mg 5 hours ago,again as directed.for now its ok still, but i worry about if it will wear off and my legs will start again.i was ready to cut my legs off or do something crazy like go back to the pain management doc and get more oxys and hydros. i cant even begin to explain how horrible the RLS is. my question- will the wd's come back if i stop the subutex, is it safe, and does it help with the psychological urge to get "high" on pills, cause i keep thinking about going back to pain doc and getting more pills. i cant talk to anyone cause i work in a place where they cant find out and my husband would divorce me if he found out ive been using for all this time. any advice would be great.thanks, i dont want to take the subutex forever,i want to feel normal and happy again without any pills. i cant believe all this took only 2 years to create and now i'm stuck with this wd.

  15. #105
    feeny860 is offline New Member
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    Hi My name is Joshua Young, And I am an addict, I am 21 years old and I live in Norwich, CT. I love opiates I love perk 15s, 30s, and recentaly started doing Opana ER 40 mgs, I started using opanas 3 months ago and fell in love because I had been taking suboxone everyday but I didnt have them prescribed to me I would get paid and every week I would buy 7 of them for 40 bucks to get me threw the week and so I didnt waist my money on pills and another reason I stopped doing pills is because I really didnt feel high anymore it would just make me feel better, After a 10 day detox in SCADD, I came out clean as a whistle no nothing it was not easy at all, Stayed clean from opiates for 3 whole months no subs no nothing but I just turned 21 and Was drinking alot and sniffing cocaine every time i drank, but I relasped eventually because I felt like ???? from a hangover and ate some vike tens, which sent me on another pill run after a 3 month binge and starting to get sick again i started taking suboxone and it made me feel great I gained weight back and started getting nice things instead of waisting money on pills but I had seriously bad anxiety everyday i felt like something bad was gonna happen to my daughter serious paranoia I was a heavy weed smoker but had to quit because of anxeity attacks but the bad thing about suboxone was it would make me feel better but I still wasnt happy I still felt myself craving a pill or still craving that high feeling but knew it would ruin everything i worked for and plus I wasnt getting high anymore so there was no point to use, Well I got introduced to OPANA and wow i was feeling like the first time I did oxys and loved it but what I came to find out is that after getting high for 1 week and waking up with nothing one day I was the worst sick ive ever been off of oxys perks anything i coudlnt belive how sick i was well my i ended up getting 400 dollars and got 7 opanas well I did one that day and instanly felt great, but the thing was that by 5-6 the next morning I was already withdrawing wich never happend to me that quick so I would have to immadiately roll out of bed and sniff one just to stop tossing an turning well I finally said im not gonna waiste my money and be sick because i HATE being sick so i started getting subs again but now i found myself buying pills every week and spending the rest on suboxones so I wouldnt get sick and go to work well Today i called and made an appointment to get Subutex and im about to start taking them on thursday when i could get them before I felt so happy was motivated, Startted school which i never felt with the suboxone I didnt get motivation or nothing just felt better so im excited to get back on the right path and get fly again nice clothes, jewelery ect because I HATE being on pills and im happy I can get these subutex now I think my life is gonna change for the better thanks for reading this lve comments if you like

  16. #106
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    Default Go, go, go!

    Joshua--You have made a good first decision--your story is compelling in its anatomy of addiction.

    You're young and you have a good life ahead. You'll be a better Dad to your daughter when you're clean. Kids learn by example, and ignore what you TELL them.

    Stay on the recovery route and you'll get where you want to go. This forum will help you out, nudge you back on the path if you veer off and cheer you on through the tough spots.

    Cat6677--once you have saturated you opiate receptors with subs, taking hydrocodone won't work. You need to read about the RIGHT way to use Subutex to get off the opiate merry-go-round. Yes, if you suddenly stop subs now you will withdraw. But if you taper them your withdrawal symptoms will be minimal or less than if you cold turkeyed. Read this stickie that Robert has years of experience using. It'll educate you and reassure you that you CAN get clean and back to normal life.

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

  17. #107
    ShouldKnowBetter is offline New Member
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    Default Some contrast for perspective.

    -sorry in advance for the novel-

    I'm not going into the hairy details, but both my bf and I (are men, but that's just a clarification, not important) are trying to get off of the Oxys. We were smoking them. That is bad. Don't do it. The ritual of the smoking is horribly addictive, beyond the physical addiction of the opiates. Smoking anything is bad, but smoking all that wax and the binders in the pills... Ick. At least I've never injected anything.

    So, the reason I'm posting to this old but still active thread, is to provide a little personal experience for people to use when making decisions.

    First of all, I was totally considering going to a doctor for a Rx to subs, but since the price on the street is comparable, and it doesn't have to go on my record, I'll just stick with that. I'm actually paying LESS than some people have reported on this site. That says something horrible (well, several somethings) about our healthcare system. On top of that, my insurance is through Kaiser Permanente, and lets just say I'm less than thrilled with their track record so far.

    The main point of my post is that I wanted to share our reactions to Subutex and Suboxone. I'm going to edit or post again later this week to update. This is an old thread, but still getting many hits, so there is a chance this will be useful to someone.

    When we finally found a steady supply of Suboxone, I wanted us to try and get clean. Our financial situation is getting pretty damn desperate and I had to draw a line in the sand. Now, my bf is totally a dyed-in-the-wool addict. He only seems to be able to stop one thing by substituting it with another. I used to get annoyed about him always being stoned, but I now have the perspective to realize that weed is WAAAAY preferable to Oxy. So anyway, I've been having trouble getting him to switch to the Suboxone. He's always making excuses that it makes him feel funny, and he doesn't like it. I thought he was just trying to weasel his way out of quitting. It made me doubt that after 4+ years, we could continue to stay together.

    Recently, we've come across someone who has both Suboxone AND Subutex. So we picked up a few of both. I only need an 8th once or twice a day (1 to 2 mg a day) in order to be ok, so my first try was just a crumb. (edit: yes we are taking these sublingually, as directed) I tried to break off a 1mg piece but it ended up being more like .7mg. It got me to sleep, so I didn't think anything of it. This morning, once I started getting all sweaty and achy, I took a 2mg piece of the Subutex. It worked as expected, except... Over the course of an hour I proceeded to get more an more nauseous. On the 5 min drive taking him to work, I almost puked my guts out 3 times. I actually opened my door at a stop light and stuck my head out, thinking I was going to hurl. I manged to keep it down. After dropping him off, I got out and found some food. It got better. But the 5 min drive back home almost undid it all again! So I immediately jumped online and looked at this forum.

    I have not come across any other story of someone being ill, or more susceptible to motion sickness from Subutex, when Suboxone worked just fine. For whatever reason, I seem to be unique in this. But something I did learn, was that my bf isn't just making excuses, or being weak willed. He may be one of those people who has a sensitivity to Naloxone. His problems seem to be right in line with all the other anecdotes of people with that problem.

    Soooooo, I will be giving HIM the Subutex, and keeping the Suboxone for myself. We may have found the magic bullet to kill this addiction. I'm very confidant that I can get myself clean in a few weeks. I started with 2mg a day, and have no problem tapering, or lengthening the time between doses strategically. And now, my bf may have a real option as well. Unless he has the same reaction to the Subutex I did, and it turns out it was just a bad batch, or somehow contaminated.

    Anyway, I will report back and confirm or revise my hypothesis in a few days. In the mean time, to anyone who reads this, don't let someone tell you that a reaction to a drug that you KNOW you experienced, is impossible. Even a double blind study with a HUGE sample size cannot account for the incredible diversity in human physiology. Our nervous and endocrine systems are ridiculously complex, and no one is going to have a text-book response to every chemical they ingest.

    Also, with other prescriptions I have noticed a huge variance in the makeup of the "same" pill from different drug companies. If someone tells you that "it's the same thing", that isn't true. If it was manufactured in a different facility, it is not the same thing. The active ingredients are supposed to be chemically the same, and , we hope, tested and regulated for consistency. But the rest of the pill, and even the process for making the active ingredients can vary. I know people who will only take generics made by Mallinckrodt or Teva, because they "work best". Do not presume that because you know the chemical formula for the active ingredient, you can predict exactly how a particular pill will effect each and every person. If someone reports odd side effects, consider all the factors instead of jumping to a conclusion. That's exactly what most doctors do, in my experience, and it drives me nuts.

    As a last example, I had a friend who was having an allergic reaction and couldn't figure out what was causing it. She got all the prick tests and just couldn't identify what was causing the rash. Then her sister-in-law said how her son pretty much "recovered" from autism after stopping a certain time-release medication. As it turned out, my friend was taking an iron supplement with a very similar time-release formula. As soon as she switched to the immediate release formula the allergy cleared up. Moral: if you have a bad reaction, it may be something common that most people have no problem with. And you can't always predict what the effects will be.

  18. #108
    what456 is offline Junior Member
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    Wow, So confusing about Subutex and suboxone. I didn't realize there could be so many different varible when it comes to reactions to just the naloxone itself. I am going to start a thread as to what has gone on the last week, HELL! But need to walk the dog. I'm anxious to get some advice so I don't screw this up for myself.

  19. #109
    Anonymous Guest

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    quote from shouldknowbetter, '''I'm not going into the hairy details, but both my bf and I (are men, but that's just a clarification, not important) are trying to get off of the Oxys. We were smoking them. That is bad. Don't do it. The ritual of the smoking is horribly addictive, beyond the physical addiction of the opiates. Smoking anything is bad, but smoking all that wax and the binders in the pills... Ick. At least I've never injected anything.'''

    AND here we have the classic heirachy in the drug addict world.....

    dont matter how you get it in their you are still an addict....
    Last edited by Anonymous; 10-22-2011 at 02:09 PM.

  20. #110
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    buggar and i hate incorrect grammar. how you get it in there....

  21. #111
    freedom11 is offline Advanced Member
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    Smoking anything is bad, but smoking all that wax and the binders in the pills... Ick. At least I've never injected anything.'''

    AND here we have the classic heirachy in the drug addict world.....

    dont matter how you get it in their you are still an addict.... [/QUOTE]

    I think there is prejudice kiwi, generally I mean, and it's not just in my head either and I agree with you; keep reading on this forum about people defending why they took pills to start with (eg for pain) - as if that makes a difference (not talking about any specific post by the way) - so not just how you get it (whatever the drug) in there, or the reason why you started, and whether it's legal or not, you (me included of course) are still an addict. Getting addicted to prescription drugs is no better or worse than getting addicted to >>>>>>/cocaine/methadone. We are all struggling the same. Love Jay xx

  22. #112
    what456 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by freedom11 View Post
    Smoking anything is bad, but smoking all that wax and the binders in the pills... Ick. At least I've never injected anything.'''

    AND here we have the classic heirachy in the drug addict world.....

    dont matter how you get it in their you are still an addict....
    I think there is prejudice kiwi, generally I mean, and it's not just in my head either and I agree with you; keep reading on this forum about people defending why they took pills to start with (eg for pain) - as if that makes a difference (not talking about any specific post by the way) - so not just how you get it (whatever the drug) in there, or the reason why you started, and whether it's legal or not, you (me included of course) are still an addict. Getting addicted to prescription drugs is no better or worse than getting addicted to >>>>>>/cocaine/methadone. We are all struggling the same. Love Jay xx[/QUOTE]

    keep reading on this forum about people defending why they took pills to start with (eg for pain) - as if that makes a difference (not talking about any specific post by the way) Jay, I just had to say I totally agree as well. I remember when I first posted here I had told the story of how the doctor had called me dependant on hydrocodone and said I wasn't an addict. OH how I held onto that for the longest time to make me feel better. However, now after years of researching and learning, I have found I am an addict and no matter what you call it or how you take it or get started, it all feels the same when you want to quit.....LIKE
    Hugs, Tracey
    Last edited by ddcmod; 10-23-2011 at 03:29 PM.

  23. #113
    Anonymous Guest

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    can u take suboxone while takg subutex at usual time for the subutex

  24. #114
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by angel73 View Post
    can u take suboxone while takg subutex at usual time for the subutex



    For most people the naloxone in suboxone does not affect them one way or the other and the two meds could be interchanged without problems. In tracking people here over the years I've found that about 15% of all people who use suboxone have some type of adverse reaction to suboxone, some worse than others, due to the naloxone. 15% is a pretty high % in my opinion.

    Bottom line is that people who don't shoot drugs should be on subutex as the naloxone serves them no purpose. It's only a deterrent to abuse. The buprenorphine in both drugs is the primary active ingredient. Sub drs strictly prescribe suboxone to everyone for purposes of protecting themselves in liability issues. That is a fact. God bless.



    And for what it's worth an addict is an addict is an addict. I walked away from every street drug there is until 30mg Roxicodone IIR prescribed for injuries and illnesses got me when I got up to close to 1000mg a day. It almost killed me twice and I thought that was impossible for me. I abused everything and it was the meds from the dr that kicked my butt. Doesn't matter if we become addicted to street drugs or RX drugs legally addiction is addiction and how we got there is irrelevant.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 11-30-2011 at 02:55 PM.
    SiriusMoonlight likes this.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  25. #115
    Ak_Megan is offline New Member
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    Thumbs up Quitting cold turkey

    I totally agree.....why wouldn't you quit cold turkey after only four months? I have been an addict for 2 years and I am on day 5 of quitting cold turkey, I have taking my 1st subutex today, I'm starting to see the light at the end of the awful unbearable tunnel of quitting cold turkey. I'm just saying that it is possible to quit cold turkey after 2 years of constant use, just take a week off and lay in bed do whatever you need to do. I don't get subutex prescribed to me so it's been great if I was able to find some, but I was gonna do it this time whether I had help or not. I pray for all of you detoxing it's aweful but DOABLE!! I'm proof....almost, good luck everyone I feel for you!

  26. #116
    suspect k is offline New Member
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    Default reposted from old thread I dug from the grave.

    I was around opiates, considering the pharmaceutical plant in my town.

    I was originally prescribed 16mg's~day of Suboxone. Started out great, I was going down every month, no problem. As I got to lower doses I started experiencing tolerance issues, but I toughed that out. I forget how long, maybe 3-4th month, but I started waking up frequently with a dead left arm. I never sleep on my side, and it was always the left side. I didn't think much of it. When I got to taking 2-3mg's~day I started having trouble with simple conversation, along with first time heart problems.

    I addressed my doctor that I think I may be allergic to the naloxone. First time a compound I wasn't knowledgeable of effected my life. Since I never used a needle I was trusted and given Subutex. However, he doubled my dosage and gave a two month supply, with instructions to go back to 2mg~day as I was before I switched.

    I immediately noticed a better life, but couldn't make it all the way to the next visit. I called and said everything. I was told the Rx facts, and then I was ignored. My Mom had to call the Dr, due to being ignored, and they told her I was dropped because "**** was going around getting different prescriptions and selling them." Third party quote from my Mom I suppose.

    If I could've had a few more months I would've made it, but because of black market influxes, I had a choice of bad reactions or ridiculously priced opiates.

    I eventually found a Dr., but insurance dropped Rx. I was now completely addicted to buprenorphine. Now I would trade a quick withdrawal over this anyday. I don't feel good, in eyes of a junkie, but I do feel normal. I work and halfway run a family business.

    I was just denied treatment from a Dr. because I was going to somewhere more convenient for me.

    For some reason, doctors think that orally taking Naloxone, found in Suboxone, prevents abuse of other opiate drugs. The only reason Naloxone is in anything is to prevent intravenous use of the substance. I've been called a dealer and a lier, and I'm wondering what's next. I'm an addict. All I want is help. If laxatives worked when I'm not medicated I would tough it out.

    I've gone 3+months without buprenorphine, and it was horrible at the beginning but got worse. Plus, when medication inconsistencies occur, I notice a short minor withdrawal period.

    REMEMBER: This drug has a 36 hour half-life. Compare to other opiates. CRAZY.CRAZY. Not to mention it's stronger than Methadone.

    If you are concerned with opiod addiction, if possible, go with a faster metabolized substance, or do rapid detoxes, if there aren't physical traits that could cause problems.

    Buprenorphine, Suboxone are just >>>> opiates(opioids). The neural effects from the Suboxone alone are worth questioning your Dr. about. They are both drugs, but brain and body damage don't occur unless the addict is without the substances. Unless of over dosing...duh.

    Thanks for reading, and hope it helps.

  27. #117
    Rougeyam is offline New Member
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    Unhappy Suboxone detox HELP ME.

    I have been on suboxone for over 6+ long years,I started it to deal with chronic pain,
    it helped in the beginning 24mgs to start went to 32mgs.I started to feel out of it
    so I lowered my dose down to 16mgs seemed to work better and I did too. I have had to
    STOP taking suboxone due to knee surgery NOV. 2008. I was informed by my surgeon to get off sub 5 days before my surgery and start using 5mg oxycodone every 4hrs until my surgery, that was fine then, I noticed I felt less depressed and I had my sex drive back.
    I have attempted to get off Suboxone 4 ( FOUR ) times with out success.I am trying again down to 4mgs. I truly believe that the naloxone causes all of the worse side effects. DEPRESSION, ANXIETY, NO SEX DRIVE, LOW TESTOSTERONE etc etc etc.
    I have done hours of research, this drug (Naloxone) is not made to used long term.It is for opiate overdose there is NO LONG TERM studies that I am aware of. Suboxone is the only drug where it is used long term. I need to mention I am 57 years young, in my 20's I could kick cold turkey no problem.I have been in Recovery for over 25 years.being clean & sober is an awesome way to LIVE..
    I was warned about Methadone maintenance. I thank the Universe that I did not get hooked on that nightmare in NY it is called ( LIQUID HAND CUFFS ) very few have ever gotten off of it.NOTE: If your are thinking of using methadone long term please watch METHADONIA a documentary on netflix. Back to Suboxone, I am going to ask my Dr. for Subtex and see if that helps with some of the side effects.
    Some of the posts confirm the difference also I am going to try some anti-depresents
    also some med for sleep, if it one thing I have discovered when I am doing an opiate detox, sleep is a must as is good nutrition and lots of Hot baths and showers I am open to all suggestions.to help me awaken from this nightmare.Thanks to all who share there experience
    strength and hope in these forums. PEACE

  28. #118
    Anonymous Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rougeyam View Post
    I have been on suboxone for over 6+ long years,I started it to deal with chronic pain,
    it helped in the beginning 24mgs to start went to 32mgs.I started to feel out of it
    so I lowered my dose down to 16mgs seemed to work better and I did too. I have had to
    STOP taking suboxone due to knee surgery NOV. 2008. I was informed by my surgeon to get off sub 5 days before my surgery and start using 5mg oxycodone every 4hrs until my surgery, that was fine then, I noticed I felt less depressed and I had my sex drive back.
    I have attempted to get off Suboxone 4 ( FOUR ) times with out success.I am trying again down to 4mgs. I truly believe that the naloxone causes all of the worse side effects. DEPRESSION, ANXIETY, NO SEX DRIVE, LOW TESTOSTERONE etc etc etc.
    I have done hours of research, this drug (Naloxone) is not made to used long term.It is for opiate overdose there is NO LONG TERM studies that I am aware of. Suboxone is the only drug where it is used long term. I need to mention I am 57 years young, in my 20's I could kick cold turkey no problem.I have been in Recovery for over 25 years.being clean & sober is an awesome way to LIVE..
    I was warned about Methadone maintenance. I thank the Universe that I did not get hooked on that nightmare in NY it is called ( LIQUID HAND CUFFS ) very few have ever gotten off of it.NOTE: If your are thinking of using methadone long term please watch METHADONIA a documentary on netflix. Back to Suboxone, I am going to ask my Dr. for Subtex and see if that helps with some of the side effects.
    Some of the posts confirm the difference also I am going to try some anti-depresents
    also some med for sleep, if it one thing I have discovered when I am doing an opiate detox, sleep is a must as is good nutrition and lots of Hot baths and showers I am open to all suggestions.to help me awaken from this nightmare.Thanks to all who share there experience
    strength and hope in these forums. PEACE
    i hope you can manage to get off subs and be finally clean... i know all about the liquid handcuffs, being addicted to methadone for years, but do not kid yourself, you are still wearing suboxone handcuffs my friend. and until you can get off them, you are not really in recovery, they are a strong opiate, and you have been on really high doses...

    read this link, but it is possible to get off.

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...tml#post220161

  29. #119
    ihatedrugs33 is offline New Member
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    Red face Maybe you can help my Fiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    I can help you taper down successfully if you want the help. All you need to do is follow instructions. You basically taper by 25% of your dose every four days barring symptoms. so we post and make adjustments as you go forward. Let me know if you want my help. I can get you off the subs without a lot of discomfort. God bless.

    He's been taking 100 mg of Oxys daily for the past year. Snorts 30 mg when wakes up and quartes to halves through out the day until bedtime.He can't find the strength to quit the habit. He gets really anxious when he doesn't have them, looks all over the house in cracks and stuff to hopefully find some oxys. But he thankfully hasn't stooped so low as to sell our famlies valuables, so I guess that's a sign that he is not as far as he could be in to this drug. He does steal about $300 a month from his grandparents bank accounts on top of the $150 he spends weekly buying the pills.

    You seem like you know a lot about this.. He's never actually willingly tried to get off oxys, only tried detoxing from Norcos (10 norcos a day) and i thought he was doing well until the 3rd day he went behind my back and starting taking them again. He started by slowly cutting down every other day or 2, but he said he was so uncomfortable and couldn't stand not taking them, with all the anxiety and sickness he was feeling and stuff. DO you have any advice for my Fiance?
    I would greatly appreciate it! Anything.

  30. #120
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihatedrugs33 View Post
    He's been taking 100 mg of Oxys daily for the past year. Snorts 30 mg when wakes up and quartes to halves through out the day until bedtime.He can't find the strength to quit the habit. He gets really anxious when he doesn't have them, looks all over the house in cracks and stuff to hopefully find some oxys. But he thankfully hasn't stooped so low as to sell our famlies valuables, so I guess that's a sign that he is not as far as he could be in to this drug. He does steal about $300 a month from his grandparents bank accounts on top of the $150 he spends weekly buying the pills.

    You seem like you know a lot about this.. He's never actually willingly tried to get off oxys, only tried detoxing from Norcos (10 norcos a day) and i thought he was doing well until the 3rd day he went behind my back and starting taking them again. He started by slowly cutting down every other day or 2, but he said he was so uncomfortable and couldn't stand not taking them, with all the anxiety and sickness he was feeling and stuff. DO you have any advice for my Fiance?
    I would greatly appreciate it! Anything.



    That is a quote from an old post you got from me. It has to do with using suboxone. Are you wanting me to help you use subs to get clean or is he wanting to try to taper off the oxy? I'm not sure what you want me to do. If he is stealing from his grandparents every month then I would say he needs to do something pretty darn fast as that is totally unacceptable. I could accept someone selling their own things for cash before stealing from old people. Not being judgemental, just telling it like it is. Sounds like if he's stealing from his grandparents and looking in cracks for pieces of pills he is beyond doing an oxy taper. Here is the link to how I use suboxone to help people get off opiates. Read it carefully. Tell me how I can help you guys. God bless.

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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