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03-06-2014, 09:20 AM #2311
Whoever is on here saying Suboxone is a positive thing has obviously never gone through Suboxone withdrawal. It's a nightmare and I'm only on day four. While I'm able to sleep at night with the help of Seroquel, my days are spent lying in bed totally unable to do anything. I don't even have enough strength to shower, it's ridiculous. I'm so mad that I ever went on these instead of just going through pain killer withdrawal. This is so much worse than that and I know from firsthand experience it's only going to get worse. I can barely eat, I've lost at least five pounds in the past three days, I'm freezing cold, I'm sweating, I'm nauseous and I feel like death. Suboxone is a scam!! It's just replacing one drug with another one and this one is so much worse because it takes so long to get off of it. Two years ago I went for 16 days without Suboxone and it was a nightmare, which is why I went back on it. After the initial four days, the insomnia kicked in and I was able to eat even less then the little bit I'm able to eat now. I was in the hospital the first time and they had to put me on Ensure shakes because I was losing so much weight. This drug is horrific and if anyone is going through opiate withdrawal I'm asking you to stay away from Suboxone, no matter what you may of heard about this being some kind of cure all for addiction, it is NOT!! It is so much worse and you will regret ever going on this drug. I promise you that.
03-06-2014, 07:42 PM #2312
I'm really sorry you're going through WD. Did you slowly wean off subs or did you just quit cold turkey? If so, what dose were you on when you quit?
03-12-2014, 05:42 PM #2313
Your right subboxe is not the way to go ive been on it 2 1/2yrs start at 24mg a day then tapered myself down to 2mg a day just to say im on day 6 and goin through hell freezing chills but drenched in sweat restless legs cant eat cant sleep no energy at all ive lost 10pounds in 6 days and litterly every bone in my body aches the days are getting worse insted of better nothing i take helps zanaflex muscle relaxers advil pms clodidine plus more it was so bad yesterday i took a 5mg percocet but im now scared that might take these physcial symtoms longer to get out of my system im so sick that im close to taking a small piece of sub just to help but i dont wanna restart this process im tryna stay strong for my babies but these withdrawls are really getting to me ive been through opiete withdrawl quite a few times on roxy 30mg 5 day a day 3-4 day i felt alot better it was a piece of cake compared to this can anyone please help me with this and give me some advice asap please and thanks
03-12-2014, 07:09 PM #2314
Some people get off at 1-2mg a day but typically people taper down to under .5mg and then start skipping days before the stop subs because they are so strong and the long half life. I believe I have read 100x stronger then morphine but somewhere else 10x stronger then oxy... So it's hard to really say but its basically stronger then all opiods other then Fentyln, crazy to me they even give these to people to get off opiates seems more about the $$$ and less about the patient. Best of luck
03-13-2014, 06:10 PM #2315
My advice to you, if you are getting sicker, and it can take quite awhile for the sub to leave your system as it has a mean half life of 48 hrs and can be up to 72 hrs. This means that the w/d will be longer. Plus the fact that you were on 24mg. and then tapered to 2mg. we have no way of knowing if you were stable on the way down. You may be ready to hit the upside, but if not and you have the sub: get back on. Try 1mg. and wait around an hour and a half and if you are not feeling better take the other 1mg. and you should be able to get stable on that. Then we can taper you down and let the sub slowly wear out of your system. Here is the taper plan:
You can also use some of the things from the Thomas Recipe to feel more comfortable:
Stay hydrated: Gatorade (helps RLS as well), water, pure fruit juices: stay away from energy drinks and soda.
Hyland's restful leg or Calme's Forte
OTC sleeping aid or melatonin, sleepy time tea STRONG
Valerian Root for anxiety.
You may also want to start a thread on the sub board and take a read around. Best of luck
03-16-2014, 08:28 AM #2316
Today makes 20 days I have been off suboxone, the pain is gone, but I am still waking up so anxious, I have been taking 40mg of loperimide, but it's day 20... So I cut myself down to 20 mg of loperimide....does anyone know when the anxious feeling stops....
03-16-2014, 07:43 PM #2317
03-19-2014, 06:31 PM #2318
Ok, it seems like there is a lot of misinformation about Suboxone, especially since it's a relatively new drug.
Many doctors know less about subs than the average addict. I had one person tell me that her doctor told her that there are absolutely no suboxone withdrawals, and I've heard many stories of people with low-moderate opiate dependency being prescribed incredibly high amounts of suboxone. So the bad news is, you sort of have to use yourself as a guinea pig to figure out what works for you without creating unmanageable withdrawals down the line.
I've been abusing opiates for probably 7-8 years now. I've been on, and gotten off of, subs 3 times (currently going through my third [and hopefully final!!] suboxone withdrawal. I never used needles or stole anything, so I guess you can say I wasn't THAT bad, but to me, I was still pretty bad.
I've never been to rehab, but I've managed to get off suboxone enough to know what you need to do to make it manageable, and what to expect. And if anyone is wondering, I'm currently on day 3 and feel pretty freaking terrible.
So here's what I know.
How much should I take?
1) Unless you're a hardcore addict, you probably don't need 4-8mg of subs/day. After a 2-3 day transition period between bad drugs and suboxone (where you probably want to take more subs than you normally would), I was using 0.5/mg each day. 0.25mg in the morning, 0.25mg in the evening. Don't stress about feeling >>>>ty in the first couple days when you switch the suboxone. You WILL feel >>>>ty, but it goes away quickly (it usually takes me about 2 days). Fold your suboxone strips to make sure you get accurate dosage.
How long should I be on?
2) After you get to a low dosage (1mg/day or lower), stay on that for a while. I've stayed on subs for 3 months minimum, and once for almost a year. I know it sounds crazy to stay on it for that long, but this is the time you use to practice being a functioning member of society instead of a drug user. Everything is totally normal, except you take your subs every day. Eventually (probably within a week or two) you stop craving drugs and start functioning normally. If you're on subs for a long period of time, you just sort of forget about drugs, which makes you less likely to relapse once you're off.
Prepare for withdrawal
3) Eventually, it's time to pay the piper. You've been on such a low dosage and you haven't even thought about using bad drugs in months. The last thing you want to do is be dopesick, but you have to do it. So, make sure you use any resource you can to help you out.
-Plan ahead. Pick a time where you don't have many responsibilities to tend to or maybe use some vacation days. If you absolutely cannot miss work, then don't worry. A lot of people are in the same boat. But...
-Use other drugs to help you. Obviously, the last thing you want to do is give more drugs to a drug user, but I was never TRULY addicted to anything but opiates, so this wasn't an issue for me. This is what I used:
-Xanax, Valium, Klonopin- For sleep, restlessness, anxiety
-Clonodine- This is blood pressure medication that they sometimes give out to opiate addicts going through withdrawal and people who try to quit smoking. It helps a LOT with the restless legs you get at night (or pretty much any time you lay down)
-Seroquel- For sleep. I think they prescribe something different now in place of seroquel, but same idea.
-Adderall- This one is polarizing. A lot of people don't like using it, which is understandable. However, this was what got me through the workday. I didn't have the option to take days off, so I would take adderall on days I had to work. The speedy feeling gave me energy, and the euphoria it gave me helped me not think about withdrawal. Adderall is pretty addicting, so be careful.
I know most people won't be able to get EVERYTHING (I had to get these from people I knew), but try to get whatever helps.
4) WD Timeline
Everyone is different, but this is what usually happens to me:
Day 1-2: Don't feel HORRIBLE yet, but starting to get sick.
Day 3-6: Feel pretty bad. These are the days you should try to rest as much as you can.
Day 7-10: From this point on, each day starts feeling better and better. Your momentum is what's pushing you forward, and you don't need any helper drugs anymore.
From this point on, you should feel 80% normal by day 10-14, and you should almost be at 100% by the end of the month. I know that on paper this sounds like a really long time and you probably feel hopeless, but trust me when I tell you that only the first week or two is difficult, and everything after that is a breeze for the most part.
It should be noted, that sexual functionality is the last thing that returns. For guys, you are still super sensitive for up to 6 (!!!!) months. Bummer (for your girlfriend, at least).
If anyone is trying to get off subs and has any questions, just reply and I'll try to check the board once in a while. I just saw that a lot of people are having trouble getting clean and I wanted to help, AND let people know that if used properly, Suboxone is NOT an evil drug and is a huge aid in a lot of people's recovery. It gets a bad rep because doctors don't know how to prescribe it properly and people end up going through worse withdrawal than they would if they just went cold turkey.
03-26-2014, 04:17 PM #2319
BEWARE of Suboxone for Chronic Pain Users used off line (non opiate addicts for clarification NOT judgement). My pain dr. basically told me that suboxone was a great drug so I don't get hooked to other narcotics. I am all about that. First of all, ER departments treat you like garbage once they realized YOU take suboxone! Once an addict always an addict (even though I don't fit that profile with this). Second of all, if you need anything else it will not work. BUT WORSE....I ended up getting gastritis after 2 years of use as the GI dr that did my endoscopy said the medicine was more than irritating my lining. It is terrible pain to go through gastritis. It really ticks me off especially when I don't drink at all (for 5 years) and do everything everyone is telling me and my outcome is WORSE F.... pain. They sell suboxone as the greatest drug since sliced bread. BEWARE! I am not saying it did not have its place for those who need it. I was having naseau attacks for 2 years and everyone blamed it on my Rheumatoid Arthritis (of course) or gallbladder when it really was this medicine. I would NOT tell opiate addicts to not take it as it does have its place. Ends up that subuxone does have side effects that are very serious. I am now taking butrans patch.
03-26-2014, 05:16 PM #2320
No one needs suboxone for chronic pain, it's a new thing that docs are trying out, like they did with methadone for chronic pain. Suboxone is a poor replacement for people with chronic pain. I still don't think docs get it that SUBS ARE AN OPIATE and a very strong one at that. The upshot is that people are becoming guinea pigs to test whether or not subs can become a replacement therapy. There are other therapies that people can use for pain both homeopathic and perhaps keeping narcotics to a minimum. I'm not saying that people with chronic pain should go without any relief: I'm not a doc, but I've seen enough people on the sub boards to tell you that there are many people who have been on for years and now are trying to get off. I would also agree that you may be treated like a leper when you go to ER as suboxone has addict stamped all over it. Thanks for the post!
Thank you for posting!
03-26-2014, 05:23 PM #2321
Hank, there are many things that I agree with in your post. For addiction: starting at the lowest effective dose and staying on only as you taper and begin to get your head together. The thing I don't agree with is your method for quitting subs. If you do the following taper correctly, you get a "soft" landing and nothing that you would need the list of drugs that you put out. So as far as paying the piper, it is possible to taper suboxone with minimum w/d symptoms. Here is the taper, tried and true (although you need to adjust as needed for your own situation)
Anyone truly trying to kick the suboxone should post on the suboxone therapy board under prescription drug addiction. There are many people there to share stories and to help with the actual taper. I agree with Robert_325 that a short taper of less than 3 months is the best, otherwise you can find yourself addicted with the sub. As far as paying the piper: the w/d from sub using a proper taper should leave you with few w/d symptoms, although, as you say there may be some, but it's not necessary to use the drug regimine that you outlined in your post.
03-31-2014, 12:14 PM #2322
It's true, not everyone needs the drugs I outlined in my post. But it's what worked for me and allowed me to be functional while getting off, but everyone is different. I've never been to rehab and I don't want people outside of my circle to know about what I'm going through, so all the drugs helped me mask my symptoms and appear normal. And it should be worth noting that aside from 5 pills of valium I managed to get, I didn't have access to any of those other drugs this time so appearing normal took all the energy I had out of me.
Originally Posted by iloerose
And the thing is, I never really tapered (aside from the first day or two on subs) my dosage. I was at 0.5mg/day for pretty much the entire time. Getting off any amount of subs is difficult and will result in withdrawal. Even at my 0.5mg/day, I'm still feeling sick 2 weeks after my last dose. The worst is over and the monkey is pretty much off my back at this point, but I'm still very lethargic and have difficulty regulating body temperature. Since this is my third time getting off subs, I pretty much know what the expect at this point.
03-31-2014, 07:53 PM #2323
Hello,as I'm reading over this I'm having a hard time understanding how it actually goes. Idk if that sounds stupid but I have (2) 8mg strips of suboxone and as of now I take about a whole one a day. Maybe less depending on how much I can get that day. Can someone. PLEASE explain to me how to properly use these last 2. Subs I have. I want to be done. Thank u
03-31-2014, 07:54 PM #2324
Advising those who are scared and worried about doing a proper suboxone taper that they need added drugs is irresponsible. There is a proper way to use suboxone to get off opiates, many do this painlessly or with little to no symptoms. If you do it right you do it once and there is no need for the added DANGEROUSLY ADDICTING drugs you call for. Only a doctor should prescribe these. You say "this time" so you know the go round. Obviously you did not taper properly and there is no need for suboxone if you are going to put yourself into full-throttle w/d, you can do that going c/t. I encourage anyone reading this to check the sub boards and to read Robert_325's taper plan, it is not that difficult and will not result in full-blown w/d. You should get your sub from a doc and not off the street. Given that this is your third go round you are not an expert with suboxone. There is no reason that doing a proper taper will leave you sick for two weeks after your last dose, if your taper is done properly. I've walked a good few people through the taper as have others on the sub boards.
Last edited by iloerose; 03-31-2014 at 07:55 PM.
03-31-2014, 08:21 PM #2325
Can someone please tell me what is .5 mg? Like how does that. Look? Is it a 1/8 of a strip? Idk how to cut them to portion it that's my problem.
03-31-2014, 10:05 PM #2326
bdubb I posted on your other thread but .5 would be 1/2 of a 1/8 strip. Strip is 8 mg so 1/8 would be 1 mg abd half of that would .5.
Originally Posted by bdubb
04-07-2014, 11:41 AM #2327
The thing is, I stopped using those other drugs within 1-2 weeks of getting off suboxone. It wasn't a problem because I wasn't addicted to those drugs and I didn't crave them after running out. They were just there to help me appear normal and get through the days. Everyone is different, and this is what worked for me. Maybe it will work for others.
Originally Posted by iloerose
Getting off of subs is very tricky and sometimes you need to get creative, as long as you know what you're doing. The doctors right now seem like they're doing more harm than good.
I see so many posts about people taking 8mg+/day, and it just blows my mind. Unless you were really bad and doing $100-200/day when you were getting high, you really don't need that much and it will be hell getting off of later.
In case anyone is wondering, it's been 3 weeks since my last dose. I feel 80% normal, but I still have really bad anxiety (usually around noon for some reason) and trouble regulating body temperature, although that is getting better too. It might seem crazy to someone looking in, thinking that they are going to be sick for that long, but after a week you are on autopilot and it just feels good not to have to take subs anymore.
04-07-2014, 11:51 AM #2328
The entire strip is 8mg. What I would do is fold the sub evenly to get accurate dosing. I would fold it lengthwise until I couldn't fold it anymore (I think it was 4 times) and then fold it height-wise until I couldn't fold it anymore (I think it was 3 times). What you are left with when you unfold are little squares, all even in size. Each square is 0.25mg.
Originally Posted by bdubb
Make sure you fold it in the other direction as well, so the folds are strong and don't disappear over time. Eventually after a couple days, the strip dries out a little bit and you can simply tear off a square each time you need one. Doing this, one 8mg strip would last me roughly 2-3 weeks.
04-18-2014, 07:45 PM #2329
dunno if I'm doing this correctly but here goes, been on suboxone for 2 years, and the needle for the 8 before, no one in my family ever dreamed to touch dope, they are content with alcohol, and they all "understand" the pain, but they don't know it, i've been a loner my whole life and am happy with it, i taught myself how to play classical guitar how to appreciate oscar wilde and how to main line opiates (dope), anyway, I'm on day 5 now of withdrawal from suboxone, came off at 1 mg, and am taking clonodine and gabapentin, even managed to get my doctor to prescribe some baclofen, all of which did wonders, i would of cracked a long time ago, no one ever asked me to stop, except my mom once a long time ago, but this time its all me. i cannot tell you how shallow i find a materialistic lifestyle, but as i type this on my new iMac, in a room that i paid for filled with things that i bought with a girl friend (Buddhist, who's kept her body clean her whole life) all i can think of is christmas, i am over the worst of the withdrawals, and i feel like a kid during christmas morning, i know when i am done with this detox i will officially become an adult, and its both a great great and scary feeling, but like i said before I've been a loner my whole life, and i do this for myself and no one else.
04-19-2014, 07:25 PM #2330
Welcome to the boards! You will find people willing to help and give advice if needed, but it's best that you post either in "need to talk" or the "suboxone treatment" forums. You will find more support on those boards. Good on you for getting off the subs and working to get clean. Yup, it is a scary feeling to be losing the opiates and a lifestlye that you've become used to. You have the right attitude: you have to do it for yourself and no one else. However, having said this, it's relatively easy to GET clean and harder to stay that way. Have you made a plan? Thought about NA or AA? We can give support, but having someone near and face to face to go through learning to live life without opiates is invaluable. Wishing you the best!
04-20-2014, 02:32 PM #2331
On the 4th day of one-quarter of one 2mg.. Tongue twister for ya!
Yeah guys, Suboxone is high-power stuff. If you're taking a few Hydros you might want to consider another route. I'm in the exact same situation as SFUMATO above..
I almost feel like I've just been putting this off for 5 years, and I need to do now what I was too weak to do then. My doctor and I have had several conversations about how much of the issue is 'mental' and how much is 'physical' when you start getting below the 2mg level. After a while, I realized that it doesn't even matter.
Here is what I know: Stopping is not going to kill me at this point. I won't die of thirst or hunger, unable to get out of bed. I also know that the more I distract myself, the better off I'll be. I definitely agree w the person above who suggested a walk or a jog.
Endorphins are the name of the game here. You need to find ways to get them back into your head without synthetics. Anything that IS NOT an opiate that increases endorphin production should help. Exercise increases endorphin production. Some foods do as well. See, my brain chemistry is all screwed up from this garbage. (And make no mistake - I include Suboxone in that garbage can!)
You're not going to die SFUMATO. I know that. And just think; in a week, a month maybe, we will be rid of this once and for all. It's just a matter of keeping away from garbage long enough to let your brain chemistry reset. I'm w you big guy. God knows, I with you.
04-28-2014, 03:17 PM #2332
I need some help. And maybe i can help you. I have been struggling with addiction for only a year but let me tell you thats no joke i lost my life in a year. Im currently tryring to save my marraige and be a outstanding father. I use to play golf professionally and had it all. I got caught up with Percs when i started to get stressed with being just married and a new dad and a business owner i started using and just went down hill from there. I have been sober for 1 month and 3 days now and been using SUbs to help. I get them from a friend who is prescribed. I quit percs cold turkey so i took subs for about 2 weeks maybe 8 mg - 20mg a day at most. I just went 1 day 1/2 with out it but last night was holly hell stomach and restlesss legs i can deal with it if i know its going to end shortly but i cant function right now so question is do i just take little as possible just to make it so i cam actually leave the house. Should i do this untill i can go days with out them or should i just quit and just try to power through the WDS. I just want to say the struggle is real and it will ruin you life so fast . If anyone ever needs someone to talk to or anything message me i have been going through a divorce that i dont want while running a company being a single dad and trying to get back to me its not easy but its possible just stay strong everyone
04-28-2014, 06:48 PM #2333
You jumped from the frying pan into the fire. 8-20mg of suboxone is a lot of suboxone. You are not clean on suboxone. I don't know how long the w/d will last as you simply delayed the w/d and possibly made it worse with the subs. You can do two things from here: tough it out c/t and use the Thomas Recipe (which you should think about using anyway) or re-induct on the sub on the lowest effective dose and taper off them. You've been taking the subs willy-nilly for the past month or so? Suboxone is a heavy duty opiate that is used to help people quit heavy duty addictions. If you are w/ding from the subs, you are just starting as sub has a half life of around 48-72 hours.
What you actually need is a plan: A: tough it out c/t using the Thomas Recipe B: taper using the subs. If you decide to do that, cut your subs and start at .50mg. wait an hour and see how you feel, if needed take another .5 and wait. When you feel "normal" (and that should be around 2mg. or lower) hold there until you are completely stable: little to no w/d symptoms. You will hold there for around 4-5 days. Then begin to taper by .25% every 4-5 days. That will let you down easier.
Here is the sub protocol: http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html
There is a protocol for cutting subs, just do a google search. There is a guy named Harry Smooth who made a video showing how to cut subs.
Post in the sub forum if you decide to go that route. Go to Prescription Drug Addiction and then to Suboxone Treatment. Suboxone is not a magic cure for addiction: it is a strong OPIATE. If you taper properly, you should be fine. And in the meantime make a plan that includes AA, NA: addiction is a lifelong disease. You need to re-learn how to be clean.
For the Thomas Recipe add:
Hyland's restful leg/ tonic water
A good multivitamin and mineral supplement that includes magnesium
B-12, pottasium: orange juice, banannas
Stay hydrated: water, pure fruit juices
Hot baths, epsom salts
Melatonin for sleep, sleepy time tea STRONG
NO energy drinks: L-tyrosine with b-6
L -theanine or serene theanine, valerian root for anxiety
That is about all I can add except to keep a positive attitude. You have to want this more than you want anything in your life.
05-10-2014, 09:21 PM #2334
I was on 4 mg Suboxone for at least a few months trying to get down to 3 but I kept getting anxiety. I only have a few left so have been on 1 mg for 5 days then I have to go down to 0.5 mg for 8 days then finished. I have been in withdrawal for the last 5 days and feel like it's getting worse. I have flulike symptoms with anxiety. I'm not strong enough to go to work. How bad is this going to get? I've got Benadryl and melatonin, Valerian Root, vitamins, Mg with electrolytes. I just feel like >>>> and weak so don't feel like exercise.
I'm scared because of my job or I'm just being paranoid because they can't fire me for being sick I told them I have a back sprain.
Thanks for your previous post.
05-18-2014, 08:37 AM #2335
I just wanted to give a shout out to anyone going through detox right now. I'm on day 14. It's been two weeks since I jumped off subutex. I was snorting about 12mgs a day before quitting cold turkey. The sad part is that I went through this before 2 years ago with suboxone but don't remember how long it took. I'm about 80% right now. The only things left for me is rls sometimes and chills. I can stay normal just hot or cold. I think I got dehydrated cuz I have a lump in my throat for the past few days. It's sad having sex because I get off in about 30 seconds due to the sensitivity since quitting. Lmao
Hang in there. It gets better. I remember when I was on like day 5 and dieing reading these boards for help.
My biggest advice to everyone is to journal or make a video of the terrible detox. A big part of relapse is forgetting the hell we go through to get clean.