[Robert_325]

I think your getting your feelings hurt like an addict in detox. All I did was explain how the dose is figured. I fail to see how that is condescending. I was trying to help explain it for you. If that is wrong than so be it. Whether I try or not I can't make everyone happy. Good luck and God bless.

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by ingodnito

Hi everyone. Thank you all for your support. I wont be returning after today. I really cannot stand the condescending manner in which I'm being spoken to. At this point, I'd rather go through withdrawals and be totally done with it. Robert, email, written messages can be seriously misconstrued if not typed carefully. Tough love isn't always the way. People are hurting in here, and not everyone understands the math. I understand youre helping a lot of people, but if you can't handle the amount of people reaching out to you, then maybe you should put a cap on it. Personally? It took everything I had in me not to say this sooner. But you can be pretty rude. And that kind of thing will chase people away. Not help them. So, having said all that...peace out.

Hi ingodnito
you will be very sorry if you leave now...Robert meant you know harm..He just needs people to listen to him and he was just telling you how to cut it up.He can handle the work load you just need to go along and let him help you.
I have never in my life meet a more caring person than him...

when we are in detox we have very raw emotions going on...
so just get back here and lets get this done...

Talk to you soon, Melinda

[xxhelzxx]

oh jebus. Bert, youre getting your check docked this week.. lol..

ingodnito, youre only hurting yourself. people are trying to help you and youre taking it the wrong way. noone here is obligated to help anyone, they do it by choice. If you jump off now youll be begging for help in a few days, if not here somewhere, only here you wont be judged or lied to. learn to take a joke and some tough love.

[xxhelzxx]

oh yea. today is lucky number 13. day 13 off the subs and im feeling so much better. sleep is my only problem but ive found things that help. let me break it down for ya. after work i go home and meditate/breath, workout, eat, take cod liver oil, flax oil, hot shower, make love to myself, take a calcium/potassium/magnesium and other stuff pill. drink sleepy time tea. 2 mg's xanax. bed. it gets better every day.

hope everys doing ok. Im still busy as hell at work and dont have much time to get on here and read like i did. ill be back on here after the 4th to try and help more.

[Robert_325]

helz ... thirteen days is cool! You'll feel lots better in a month.

That looks like it should be an effective sleep regimen though. Freakin sleep is still eludes me after years, not trying to be a doomsayer. Think I've just got too many miles on this model for the years.

Stay in touch. God bless.

[Lost83]

ingodnito,

just wanted to butt in and let you know that I have read Roberts posts when he is being blunt and that wasn't one of 'em, suck it up, stick around and he will still be here to help you do this successfully. It would really suck if you leave now and end up another statistic with a suboxone horror story. Hope you reconsider.

[magsj]

HELZ-

CONGRATULATIONS........i have been meaning to write to you.....you really stuck to your regimen...so funny...lines, glass from a frame, the jungle, the doc office skeleten, etc.etc. your a hoot. i'm thrilled for you!

excuse the lame typing - one hand is out of commission, so doing the peck and type thing.

by the way, Pam (Tired2) has some birds that keep waking her up at 4;30 am (she's skipping days now.... yaahoooo), so could you wonder on over to her corner of the world and take care of that for her with something from your arsenal.....hehehehe.

keep in touch when you can......you rock!

hugs

mags

[4familySS7]

Robert,

You seem to be the senior member with the most experience...I've browsed the boards and done some research...I went from taking 5 10mg Hydrocodone 2x day for over 2 years (100mg daily). Tried several times on my own to detox, but couldn't get past the physical withdrawal.

I then went to a psychiatrist who provided me outpatient Suboxone treatement of 1 8mg tablets twice daily (16 mg daily). Like a predictable addict, I doubled the dose of Suboxone to try and get that feeling of "well being" that the Opiates had provided (took 8mg to start the day, then took 20mg to end the day).

I've been on Suboxone for 2 years now and finally decided enough was enough. I went cold turkey on 6/9/09...about 4 days with no meds at all (feels like 10 days).

I've got the basic symptoms of hot spells, aches, depression, restless legs...however, I find that my sleep patterns are back to normal...I go to sleep at midnight and can't sleep past 7am...which is good for work.

How long can I expect the withdrawal symptoms to continue...I'm seeing that people seem to indicate 2 weeks is the norm...

I read posts from 2007 on this board and some folks suggested taking low doses of codeine to help out...while that does appeal to me, I imagine its probably the worst thing I can do.

I have an appointment with my Dr. on the 16th...he/she will probably be pissed I didn't taper, but I felt like I wouldn't ever get off if I just didn't pull the trigger...

Any words of advise are appreciated.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by 4familySS7

Robert,

You seem to be the senior member with the most experience...I've browsed the boards and done some research...I went from taking 5 10mg Hydrocodone 2x day for over 2 years (100mg daily). Tried several times on my own to detox, but couldn't get past the physical withdrawal.

I then went to a psychiatrist who provided me outpatient Suboxone treatement of 1 8mg tablets twice daily (16 mg daily). Like a predictable addict, I doubled the dose of Suboxone to try and get that feeling of "well being" that the Opiates had provided (took 8mg to start the day, then took 20mg to end the day).

I've been on Suboxone for 2 years now and finally decided enough was enough. I went cold turkey on 6/9/09...about 4 days with no meds at all (feels like 10 days).

I've got the basic symptoms of hot spells, aches, depression, restless legs...however, I find that my sleep patterns are back to normal...I go to sleep at midnight and can't sleep past 7am...which is good for work.

How long can I expect the withdrawal symptoms to continue...I'm seeing that people seem to indicate 2 weeks is the norm...

I read posts from 2007 on this board and some folks suggested taking low doses of codeine to help out...while that does appeal to me, I imagine its probably the worst thing I can do.

I have an appointment with my Dr. on the 16th...he/she will probably be pissed I didn't taper, but I felt like I wouldn't ever get off if I just didn't pull the trigger...

Any words of advise are appreciated.

So you've been on suboxone for two years I understand that. But at what dose of suboxone did you jump off at? How much had you been taking each day prior to stopping abruptly? Hope it wasn't 20mg. God bless.

[4familySS7]

I jumped off at the 24-28mg a day point...just stopped on the night of the 13th. I've been going to work, trying to exercise...doing housework to keep moving...but I find I just like to lay in bed and watch TV while at home.

My wife supports me (she hated the Suboxone-all the orange spit)...so she does understand I need time and doesn't mind me laying around...

I just want to get past the physical symptoms...

I watch the TV show "House" and relate...I know one pill and all the discomfort will go away...but I feel like I'd lose the "hard work" over the past couple of days.

I've talked myself into believing that to get off, I will need to suffer a bit...it isn't going to be magic.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by 4familySS7

I jumped off at the 24-28mg a day point...just stopped on the night of the 13th. I've been going to work, trying to exercise...doing housework to keep moving...but I find I just like to lay in bed and watch TV while at home.

My wife supports me (she hated the Suboxone-all the orange spit)...so she does understand I need time and doesn't mind me laying around...

I just want to get past the physical symptoms...

I watch the TV show "House" and relate...I know one pill and all the discomfort will go away...but I feel like I'd lose the "hard work" over the past couple of days.

I've talked myself into believing that to get off, I will need to suffer a bit...it isn't going to be magic.

I can't even believe that you would stop abruptly at 24-28mg of suboxone!!! Let's just call it 26mg. If you continue this you have NO IDEA how sick you're going to get and for how long. It will last over a month if you're like most people and it will be bad. You DON'T stop taking suboxone like that. This could be catostrophic for you as the half life is just now starting to really catch up with what you are doing.

I can get you stabilized but the only way I can help you is if you will start on a taper and I will make suggestions as you go down. But I won't participate in telling you to continue doing what you are doing. I think it's totally insane to cold turkey off that much suboxone. Let me know what you're going to do. God bless.

[4familySS7]

OK, now that you've scared the sh*t out of me...I'm torn...do I wait for the 16th and just bear it...I'm not trembling or anything...just in discomfort...

I appreciate your words of experience...but at some reasonable point my body has to let go...

Are you indicating that I could be looking at longer than 14 days of physical detox...I'm not even sure I want the answer.

[Robert_325]

I wanted to scare the chit out of you! I won't bother to soften my opinion any at all. I think if you continue a cold turkey detox coming off 26mg of suboxone for two years you'll be lucky if you don't end up in a straight jacket in a psych ward before it's over. I'm not trying to be cute or funny. I think what you're doing is NUTS!!!!

I've seen "God only knows" how many people come through this forum using suboxone. I know what I'm telling you is correct. If you will listen to some suggestions I can help you. But you've got to taper down properly.

Your dose is completely crazy! There is no reason for ANY human being to take that much suboxone. So it will take a while getting your dose down to nothing. But doing it the right way is the only way I can participate with a good conscience.

I wouldn't even post to someone doing a cold turkey like you are wanting to do. I would be afraid to hear what what was happening to them. You'll end up in an ER being admitted into the hospital if you continue this far enough. God bless.

[Mom2two]

Hi,

My name is Rose and I've been following your forum and looking back on posts. It appears there are some pretty awesome people on this support group and I need some advice if you can help. I'm going to try and keep it as short as possible.
I'm 50 yrs. old, flashback to early 20's. Had 1 laminectomy , two years later a posterior lower lumbar fusion with 12 inch scar, Dr. said very much scar tissue. Two years later fusion didn't take, fused again thru stomach where he place one screw in position to hold it. Addicted to drugs, went into treatment, hired a physical trainer to build up body, lived with some pain on and off. Forward to 2006, pain again after 10 half years sober, very into AA. Lived with pain for 11 months, doc tried Tramadol and tons of Advil, still in pain. Finally saw a physiatrist,( finds cause of pain) hope spelled correctly. After epidurals, P.T., no better. Sent me to a Neurologist who did MRI, and Discogram and had two leaking discs above other fusions. He told me straight out due to all adhesions some of which attached themselves to nerves in the spine and living with failed fusions for over ten yrs. didn't know if surgery would work. I had to take the risk. Didn't get much better after he put all rods, bars and 8, 8inch screws in lower back to stabilize discs above and try to help pain. Two screws into pelvic bones. Surgery was in Nov.2007. During this time my neck became a issue of which I was warned of because fused so early in life. Forward to 2008 of Dec. after trying many other things 3 discs in neck had to be fused. Now metal plate in neck with 6 screws. One area is fusing well, other one not. Wear bone growth stimulator 4 hrs. a day and still in pain.
I take 15mg. of morphine 2xday, hydrocodone 10/325 8xday, soma 325, 8xday, other non-addictive drugs also oh, and 15mgs of Imm release morphine whenever needed. I receive 30 per month.
Have gone down against dr. recommendation but his knowledge from Fentanyl patch, then he went to 60 mg.morphine after one month told him I want lower dose, he didn't agree but went to 30mg. morphine, after 1 more month told him i want to go lower, went to 15 mg. morphine. So been on meds a total of 2 and half years but stronger since surgery. Want to get off even though in pain. Called a few rehab centers, all want me to confer with all my docs before I do this and all said need to still address the pain I live with. Do not abuse what I take due to God's grace and 1 regular meeting brought to my home weekly. Tired of not having a life but they all want to put me on Suboxone. After reading this site do not want to go that way and still am researching other avenues.
Doc said problem is adhesions, living with failed fusions for too long, arthritis and one hip 3 inch higher than other of which I know my P.T. can help with and have to strengthen body. Do know that even if you don't abuse body can still kick into withdrawals and realize I have a long road ahead to build myself up. Made all dr. appts. so I can get this going. Many other things ahead that have to be addressed or appts. Date I chose is July 16, or sooner due to vacation for husband that is worn down because I haven't driven since been on meds and won't. Trust me, my mind is made up but don't want to jump the gun and have been praying for patience and alternatives than suboxone because I have read too many scary posts here and don't want to go thru w/d twice.
Anyone know of other meds that are non-narcotic for pain? I do use Lidoderm patches and get massages too.

If I'm going to find any answers I know I'll find them here. All of you are such an awesome caring support group. Thank you, I'm so happy I found you.

Rose

[4familySS7]

Understood and appreciated.

I would imagine a safe and recommended tactic would be to go back to the 16mg daily then work through a tapering plan with my Dr.

I was just hoping to rid this...I had always heard detox takes about 7-10 days and was hoping to just finish it out.

As I type this, I'm "hiding" in my office...besides my wife and Doc...this is the only place I've discussed this...as with many on this board...I'm fully functional...in fact, over the past 2 years, I've excelled at work, getting a significant promotion in this horrible economy.

The Suboxone gave me a bit of a "high"...it wasn't as intense as the Opiates, but it was there. I would take an 8mg dose in the morning, which would get me through the day...then like others take a glass of wine in the evening, I would take a larger dose (16mg) to get through the night.

I feel like if I pop that orange pill in my mouth today, I'll have lost what I started, but understand your opinion, and do respect it.

[Robert_325]

Going back to 16mg is not going to cut it. You need to do a 25% reduction of your dose like once a week. Going from 26mg that would mean starting at 20mg for one week. Then you would drop to to 15mg with another 25% reduction. You do that every week until the dose is down to nothing. If you follow what I'm telling you it won't take that long. What's a couple months extra tapering after two years if it keeps you out of a physc ward? And I'm serious about that as it could happen continuing the cold turkey. Hope that helps. God bless.

[Robert_325]

Rose .... I think you would likely have a pretty tough time stopping your pain meds cold turkey with your existing pain. I can appreciate you wanting to get off the meds as lots of us started out with totally legitimate pain concerns. But with the meds you've been on and with your existing problems I agree with the choice of subs. Since you aren't an IV drug user I would choose subutex over suboxone but that's me.

It's really important that you use the subutex/suboxone properly. If you've read across the forum you've seen how the drs sometimes prescribe really high doses. Here is a link explaining what we've found to be most effective using subs for opiate detox. God bless.

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

[Mom2two]

Robert,

I would never go off cold turkey. I plan on going in somewhere to detox based on drs. advice, and treatment center and this time being fused to the waist know that I can't do what I did the first time in treatment.
This time my body isn't what it was then, and I'm 20 yrs. older. I have two beautiful children of whom I miss so many of their firsts and then cry. I want to be able to function better. The center reminded me I will still live with limitations (children adopted and are now 11 and 8).
Will the subtex help me with this?Will it give me life back again? I'm so confused because I feel as if I'm giving up one addiction for another? Am I wrong? Will I have to give in a little to gain a lot or still be a prisoner in this body wracked with pain? Obviously you may not have answers for me on this one, but wondering if others on this site have gone thru pain and then were able to lead a somewhat normal life? One of the centers here said the dr. would start me out higher and then put me on a low dose to maintain. I also believe there is someone greater than me in control of my doc, and that is God. It may be my only choice to go on these meds.

Question: Are you able to drive on this? It's still an opiate. I would never want to harm anyone being out on the road when I shouldn't.

You appear like the "Man to talk to". You have helped so many people on this site and they have great humility (at least most) to listen to someone who has been there and you're so willing to make yourself available to everyone.
God bless you for what you are doing for everyone. Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.
I appreciate all of you here. I have read many posts and so many who have chronic pain, but can't read all the posts. I also would appreciate any insight if anyone knows!


With humble thanks,
Rose

[Mom2two]

Robert,

I think I misinterpreted what you meant by cold turkey. I believe you meant getting off meds in treatment without anything to address pain.

Sorry,
Rose

[Robert_325]

You should do well in medically supervised detox. I did that too, it's really a safer way to detox. Subutex will only help you with the detox though. It's not really meant for serious pain issues long term. That will have to be addressed after you complete the detox process.

Buprenorphine (the active drug in subutex) is a partial agonist. Most opiates are full agonists so the subutex still permits some activity on brain receptors. The brain thinks you have opiates in your system when you only have a very small dose of subutex.

When you complete your detox you'll have to determine at that time what your pain level really is and act accordingly. Subutex wouldn't be a longterm pain medication though. God bless.

[Mom2two]

Robert,

That's the name of the drug the nurse called me back with after she spoke with the dr. on staff in charge of rehab. Sounds better to me already.

I happened to be doing some research and just discovered my G.P. is certified in Addiction. Never knew that before as he knew what I was on and never said anything and also knows my past since I've known him since I was 19. I am going to see him because none of these centers I spoke with have a doc that will see you until you check in.
Nothing against most docs but don't want to put my pain in the hands of someone who doesn't know me and over prescribe as I've noticed in some of the posts and the link you sent me.

I'm praying there may be other drugs to address my pain that do not have opiates.

This appears to be your mission Robert. You have helped so many people as I'm sure others have with their experience, strength and hope . Giving back is what it's all about. Guess that's why I feel comfortable here.

God has truly blessed you as well deserved. Amen!

Thanks again for clearing up subutex and suboxone. I pray someday I can give back to all you lovely people.

Rose

[hopeful32]

I step away for a week and come back to so much drama on here...feelings getting hurt for no reason...Helz talking about making love to himself..it's a total trip, especially given the fact that I'm totally clean and clear- like Windex, but I smell better and I don't streak.

So many people to address...Robert- you saved me, my man! Without you, I'd still be drugged up and Fkd up...I remember the first time you responded to my plan a few months ago regarding my cold-turkey solution...man you pissed me off with your honesty...what a beautiful thing to be that honest- you're very rare. Most people tell ya what you want to hear...thanks for caring enough to put it out there with absolute truth. I'm forever indebted my friend.

Melinda- I luvs ya..you know that- and feel the same way about your honesty. Without your sweetness and support, there would be a huge void here.

You two are the perfect compliment to each other, as well as to everyone who's lucky enough to stumble onto this forum.

Ingodnito- Two words, BIG MISTAKE! You're not seeing things clearly right now...like Melinda said- your emotions are raw and messing with you...take that energy and direct it towards fighting your addiction, not the people who are here to support you. Your letting your pride get in the way of your recovery, and guess what- your pride will NEVER let you succeed with addiciton. It will test you to your absolute limit...so roll with it- but don't do it the hard way...you WILL regret it.

I cold-turkeyed off subs two months ago yesterday... 3.5 mgs and it was a living hell...thank God for the people on this sight to listen to me beotch and moan...

Pam, Nelly, Mags, Linda and LM- Hope you women are hangin strong! Never thought i'd say it again, especially this time last year, but life is kickass.....i'm still amazed at the difference in myself...stay strong eveyone-

lock and load
Kameron

[xxhelzxx]

I dropped .5mgs of xanax yesterday. which is 3mg's a day now. I think Ill try and drop .5mgs every 10 to 12 days or so then switch over to klonopin or valium when i get to a low does. what was that recipe ive seen talked about for bezo w/ds?

Hope everyones doing good. that person above me smells funny

[Panic492]

Originally Posted by 4familySS7

Understood and appreciated.

I would imagine a safe and recommended tactic would be to go back to the 16mg daily then work through a tapering plan with my Dr.

I was just hoping to rid this...I had always heard detox takes about 7-10 days and was hoping to just finish it out.

As I type this, I'm "hiding" in my office...besides my wife and Doc...this is the only place I've discussed this...as with many on this board...I'm fully functional...in fact, over the past 2 years, I've excelled at work, getting a significant promotion in this horrible economy.

The Suboxone gave me a bit of a "high"...it wasn't as intense as the Opiates, but it was there. I would take an 8mg dose in the morning, which would get me through the day...then like others take a glass of wine in the evening, I would take a larger dose (16mg) to get through the night.

I feel like if I pop that orange pill in my mouth today, I'll have lost what I started, but understand your opinion, and do respect it.

Just a comment on 4familyss7. Sounds like you are on about the 5th day off Suboxone? I agree with Robert and the others that jumping off from that high of a dose was probably not wise. With that said, we are all wired a little different. You may be one of the minority that can make it after going off that high a dose. I would try to tough it out at this point. The most severe wd sets in about the 3rd day. You can always go back on but I would have for you to lose this great head start. Hang in there!

[melinda7.5]

Hi Helz

We were just watching your video...
you were rockin down the house...

Talk to you soon, Melinda

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by xxhelzxx

I dropped .5mgs of xanax yesterday. which is 3mg's a day now. I think Ill try and drop .5mgs every 10 to 12 days or so then switch over to klonopin or valium when i get to a low does. what was that recipe ive seen talked about for bezo w/ds?

Hope everyones doing good. that person above me smells funny

The benzo detox we talk about comes from the Ashton Method. You can find it on the homepage of www.benzo.org.uk ... it's about the least painful way to do a benzo taper. Reducing by .5mg every ten days or so sounds pretty good though. God bless.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by Panic492

Just a comment on 4familyss7. Sounds like you are on about the 5th day off Suboxone? I agree with Robert and the others that jumping off from that high of a dose was probably not wise. With that said, we are all wired a little different. You may be one of the minority that can make it after going off that high a dose. I would try to tough it out at this point. The most severe wd sets in about the 3rd day. You can always go back on but I would have for you to lose this great head start. Hang in there!

You are WRONG I guarantee! Don't tell people to stick out a cold turkey detox off suboxone from 24-28mg! You have NO IDEA what you're telling this person to do. That would be about the most stupid thing they could possibly do. Can't believe anyone would tell someone to "tough it out" through something like that. They will be in w/d for a freakin month or longer not a few days and will probably end up in the hospital.

[hopeful32]

Originally Posted by xxhelzxx

I dropped .5mgs of xanax yesterday. which is 3mg's a day now. I think Ill try and drop .5mgs every 10 to 12 days or so then switch over to klonopin or valium when i get to a low does. what was that recipe ive seen talked about for bezo w/ds?

Hope everyones doing good. that person above me smells funny

hmmmmm...thats it- no more drawings for you.

[hopeful32]

Folks- let me tell you about cold-turkey sub detox....it's a fkn NIGHTMARE!

I remember my foolish ways well...I found this site and was looking for some advice that already supported my stubborn-a$$ plan to detox cold turkey off of 3.5 subs...Robert was direct and told me that basically I was insane and that my detox plan of taking two weeks off work to get "back to normal" wouldn't quite work out the way I anticipated.

Of course I didn't listen, but learned the first rule of dumba$$-ness...when someone is trying to help you with sound advice, fuggin LET THEM.

Five weeks and one trip to the ER later, I went back to work...half cocked I might add.

Tapering is the way to go...patience is a necessity. I've seen amazing things with the success stories on this site- by peeps who have the inteligence and humility to not only ask for help, but to apply it once given.

FYI- Helz smells...don't let him fool ya.


Kameron

[sillygeel]

OMG! Whaddup with all this drama? OK I have been in the hospital but no opiates........got yet another diagnosis, kinda scary.....alkylosing spondalitis......lots of pain however I am loosing eyesight with that news I have stayed on my .25 mg cuz no necessito um pucko OK? I am doing the best I can. Told the specialist I was on sub and she said I should not have any problem quitting
YA right, I replied "Have YOU ever taken suboxone?" of coarse she hasn't! Anyway, I got hit a low blow, just got this new home and can't make it to the second floor. Man life is crazy sometimes......I printed out the benzo plan and will get to it soon just TOO much on my plate at the moment.........Thanks for reading this stuff! And Hey Robert........I am staying where I am at for a little while longer cuz I cant walk when I stop completely! I just got connected so I'll be back.................God is good........LM