[ingodnito]

Well thanks for the input. Again, I was just curious. I did not know about this drug until the doctor prescribed it to me. To avoid going through the heebie geebies I agreed to it. That was 51 days ago. Now there is a kind, patient person here helping me. I cant wait to be off this stuff. (me...not so patient yet)

::::Woulda, shoulda, coulda::::

[ingodnito]

Hi Robert, my question didnt really have anything to do with the methods shared on this site. I (again) appreciate your help, and the others as well. it was just a curiosity question. No big deal really.

As for tonight, I'm feeling better with the lesser dose than I did with 4mg actually. Less antsy, less groggy, and now...eating. So what am I doing in the morning..?

[Robert_325]

I totally understand how you feel. That's why I always suggest a cold turkey detox first. You can be done with all this in a short period of time. If the cold turkey doesn't work or isn't feasible for whatever reason that's when I recommend subs. It's not the right choice for everyone. Most people should cold turkey and drs should tell people that too. God bless.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by ingodnito

Hi Robert, my question didnt really have anything to do with the methods shared on this site. I (again) appreciate your help, and the others as well. it was just a curiosity question. No big deal really.

As for tonight, I'm feeling better with the lesser dose than I did with 4mg actually. Less antsy, less groggy, and now...eating. So what am I doing in the morning..?

Do the same dose tomorrow in the morning and the evening that you took tonight. Then let me know tomorrow evening how the day goes. If all is well tomorrow you'll stay at that dose then four days minimum. We've been jumping around too much with your dose. Talk with you tomorrow. God bless.

[ingodnito]

Thanks. Have a Blessed Night!

[sillygeel]

Robert........the lower the dose the higher my pain levels increases. Well, I am on .25 at the moment and since 3 days ago I am begining to remember why I intially got on pain killers! My body hurts, my pain in my legs and back are back........I do not want to end up in a wheel chair Anyway, could be the stress, who knows all I know is I cant ride my bike because I can barely walk to my car! My memories of why I started pain killers (being an upper junkie) is all unfolding in front of me Blessings.......Silly

[ingodnito]

Thanks intelmetal...
Member. I may be in trouble then. Or not. I havent had the DOC in over 50 days. However, I was taking mass quantities per day of the pain meds for a couple of months until it made me deathly ill. Thanks for your input.

[ingodnito]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Do the same dose tomorrow in the morning and the evening that you took tonight. Then let me know tomorrow evening how the day goes. If all is well tomorrow you'll stay at that dose then four days minimum. We've been jumping around too much with your dose. Talk with you tomorrow. God bless.

Ok... so you know what I'm doing. I split a 1/4 tab in half, and then split one of those. took 3mg (appx...I didnt cut very evenly). I'm glad that it takes LESS for me to feel better. Have a great day.

[ingodnito]

Originally Posted by sillygeel

Robert........the lower the dose the higher my pain levels increases. Well, I am on .25 at the moment and since 3 days ago I am begining to remember why I intially got on pain killers! My body hurts, my pain in my legs and back are back........I do not want to end up in a wheel chair Anyway, could be the stress, who knows all I know is I cant ride my bike because I can barely walk to my car! My memories of why I started pain killers (being an upper junkie) is all unfolding in front of me Blessings.......Silly

Hi Silly, Just wanted to let you know that when I read your post this morning, I was nodding my head to it. I can relate to that. It took me 4 years of horrible pain, and gazillions of pills to succumb to the pain instead of the pills. For me, I guess I'd rather feel the pain now (just to know I'm alive) then to be dead from an OD. I'll be praying for you. I so know that feeling. I've said it many times myself. 9 herniated discs and 3 types of arthritis throughout my entire body (osteo-arthritis almost guarantees I'll have more hernations in the future...not too many discs left), not to mention a rare nerve condition in my spine, that makes mobility a "pain". My doctor gave me the spine shot a few months ago, and for the first time in a very long time, its been 3 months straight with little or no pain. Have you tried that? its a non-narcotic solution for me, plus I dont have to put it in my mouth (which is a good thing). God bless. BM.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by sillygeel

Robert........the lower the dose the higher my pain levels increases. Well, I am on .25 at the moment and since 3 days ago I am begining to remember why I intially got on pain killers! My body hurts, my pain in my legs and back are back........I do not want to end up in a wheel chair Anyway, could be the stress, who knows all I know is I cant ride my bike because I can barely walk to my car! My memories of why I started pain killers (being an upper junkie) is all unfolding in front of me. Blessings.......Silly

Lisa Marie ... it's always a possibility that when we get clean off RX opiates we will feel our actual pain again. In most people's case however we find that as we acummulate some clean time and the detox passes us we start feeling better than before. It works out for most of us that our addiction was actually making us hurt more than our back problem or knee problem was. Does that make sense?

Addiction is painful in itself. It twists our brain into thinking we need more opiates than we really do. So what I would suggest here is that you focus hard on finishing the subs, then determine if the pain you feel is really from your back and legs or if it's from your opiate addiction and your mind telling your body that it wants some opiates. It's just difficult to determine that accurately before you're clean for a while.

Even the subs are an opiate. Your body has not been without opiates in some time. Don't misunderstand I realize that your pain is real and I'm not questioning that. I'm just asking you to think about it and decide if it's the addiction trying to make one last stab at getting you back or is it your real body pain? It's hard determining that sometimes so we need to really think about this before deciding we've got to have more narcotic medication.

It works out that some people need to continue on RX opiates for medicinal purposes. It's not a matter of addiction for them. I would never try to say who is and who isn't in that group of patients. Complete the sub taper and get clean. Then if it does work out that you do require narcotic medication you'll be able to make that decision knowing that you did it while being clean and not under the influence of opiates. Hope that makes sense.

I would take meds before I literally ended up in a wheel chair. But I would tolerate some pain (which I do daily) before taking narcotic meds again if I absolutely didn't HAVE TO. God bless.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by ingodnito

Hi Silly, Just wanted to let you know that when I read your post this morning, I was nodding my head to it. I can relate to that. It took me 4 years of horrible pain, and gazillions of pills to succumb to the pain instead of the pills. For me, I guess I'd rather feel the pain now (just to know I'm alive) then to be dead from an OD. I'll be praying for you. I so know that feeling. I've said it many times myself. 9 herniated discs and 3 types of arthritis throughout my entire body (osteo-arthritis almost guarantees I'll have more hernations in the future...not too many discs left), not to mention a rare nerve condition in my spine, that makes mobility a "pain". My doctor gave me the spine shot a few months ago, and for the first time in a very long time, its been 3 months straight with little or no pain. Have you tried that? its a non-narcotic solution for me, plus I dont have to put it in my mouth (which is a good thing). God bless. BM.

Barbara ... this is exactly what I was talking about to Lisa Marie in the last post. We've got to determine how bad the pain really is and if we're willing to succumb to it.

Many of us started out on RX pain meds for legitimate purposes. I have rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthrititis, congenital scoliosis, deg disc disease, have had five knee operations and others from sports injuries, I have Raynaud's Phenomenon and other problems that all cause pain on a daily basis. But it's just not worth taking pain meds to me.

I would personally rather deal with some pain each day and be awake than be pain free and in a perpetual coma. There are always options as to how we deal with our pain. God bless.

[tjhook]

Robert,

I am down to 1/4 of a 2mg pill (.5mg) per day starting today.....am I safe to begin skipping days now? Everything has gone smooth so far, please advise thanks!

TJ

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by tjhook

Robert,

I am down to 1/4 of a 2mg pill (.5mg) per day starting today.....am I safe to begin skipping days now? Everything has gone smooth so far, please advise thanks!

TJ

Hi TJ .... That's great! You should be proud of yourself.

Let's see how you do after four days at .5mg. When I started skipping days myself it was .5mg, but some people need to go a little lower. It depends on the individual.

Stay in touch over the next four days. We'll decide together if you're ready to begin skipping days or if you need one more taper. But you're almost there regardless. God bless.

[tjhook]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Hi TJ .... That's great! You should be proud of yourself.

Let's see how you do after four days at .5mg. When I started skipping days myself it was .5mg, but some people need to go a little lower. It depends on the individual.

Stay in touch over the next four days. We'll decide together if you're ready to begin skipping days or if you need one more taper. But you're almost there regardless. God bless.

Want to sincerely thank you and the others who take the time to help people like me.......if you are ever in Northern California you will always have free golf and or lessons any time at my course!

I will keep you updated!

[xxhelzxx]

tj I had to get down to .17mgs before I stopped. its all how ya feel. dont rush it. its coming

[sillygeel]

OMG!!!!!!!!! I had 8 calls from people working for me on my new home and I cannot move. I read all the replies and agree, my monster and monkey very well could be on my back I feel sad however, I am so close to the end of suboxone taper (am I really)? I am at 1/16 pill that is equivalent to .25 mg after 16 months of supposedly pain management. I am still on 3 mg of benzo's and I am scared to death that I do not have the strength psychically. My mind always over rides dilemma's with that I WILL continue......just weak and much pain. Thanks to everyone on this thread. I will be happy when I have something to give rather than taking! A complete stranger anointed me and I WELCOMED it I guess God has to strip my ego and render me helpless and hopeless for my faith to get stronger..........IT does get better, I remember life before illness and opiates! Blessings........Namaste LM

[ingodnito]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Barbara ... this is exactly what I was talking about to Lisa Marie in the last post. We've got to determine how bad the pain really is and if we're willing to succumb to it.
Many of us started out on RX pain meds for legitimate purposes. I have rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthrititis, congenital scoliosis, deg disc disease, have had five knee operations and others from sports injuries, I have Raynaud's Phenomenon and other problems that all cause pain on a daily basis. But it's just not worth taking pain meds to me.

I would personally rather deal with some pain each day and be awake than be pain free and in a perpetual coma. There are always options as to how we deal with our pain. God bless.

Yep. thats exactly what I said. Before it was all about the pain. Now its about staying alive and learning to cope with the pain. Mine started for legitimate reasons too. But it didnt finish that way. Even people who do not have addictive tendencies can wind up with them with pain medication. This much I do know about unfortunately.

I myself did fine today on 3mg in the morning and 3mg this afternoon. All is well with the world. No sickness, no grogginess, and I even have a little extra energy. So do you want me stay this way until Thursday? (4 days right?) God bless you back!

[sillygeel]

[QUOTE=ingodnito;241049]Hi Silly, Just wanted to let you know that when I read your post this morning, I was nodding my head to it. I can relate to that. It took me 4 years of horrible pain, and gazillions of pills to succumb to the pain instead of the pills. For me, I guess I'd rather feel the pain now (just to know I'm alive) then to be dead from an OD. I'll be praying for you. I so know that feeling. I've said it many times myself. 9 herniated discs and 3 types of arthritis throughout my entire body (osteo-arthritis almost guarantees I'll have more hernations in the future...not too many discs left), not to mention a rare nerve condition in my spine, that makes mobility a "pain". My doctor gave me the spine shot a few months ago, and for the first time in a very long time, its been 3 months straight with little or no pain. Have you tried that? its a non-narcotic solution for me, plus I dont have to put it in my mouth (which is a good thing). God bless. BM

BM, Yes!!! I had 2 nerve blocks 4 months ago and I guess it worked, I was living again and that very well could be why I cant walk now. Perhaps it has worn off. Too many questions. Is this sub withdrawal, the monster trying to convince me I need pain med's? I have no clue I just cant move and alone. I will re-evaluate my pain in the next 2-4 days as I do not do well alone in my head. I have faith that more will be revealed. Thanx tho. Sure made me feel a moment of easiness. Silly

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by ingodnito

Yep. thats exactly what I said. Before it was all about the pain. Now its about staying alive and learning to cope with the pain. Mine started for legitimate reasons too. But it didnt finish that way. Even people who do not have addictive tendencies can wind up with them with pain medication. This much I do know about unfortunately.

I myself did fine today on 3mg in the morning and 3mg this afternoon. All is well with the world. No sickness, no grogginess, and I even have a little extra energy. So do you want me stay this way until Thursday? (4 days right?) God bless you back!

As high as the dose is right now you can get by here with three days. So on Wednesday you'll reduce to 4.5mg. You'll stay there for four days and we can make a for one day's worth of medication too. Let us know tomorrow. God bless.

[ingodnito]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

As high as the dose is right now you can get by here with three days. So on Wednesday you'll reduce to 4.5mg. You'll stay there for four days and we can make a for one day's worth of medication too. Let us know tomorrow. God bless.

Just to make sure I understand...I'm taking a total of 6mg for the day. On wednesday I'm dropping it to 4.5 mg for the day correct? 2.25 twice correct? Eek..(please help me with the break down of the tablets.) 2mg is a 1/4 of the 8mg tablet, am I breaking up a 1/4 into 4 pieces to get the .25? (this is where it could get a little confusing for me.)...

Thanks
BM

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by ingodnito

Just to make sure I understand...I'm taking a total of 6mg for the day. On wednesday I'm dropping it to 4.5 mg for the day correct? 2.25 twice correct? Eek..(please help me with the break down of the tablets.) 2mg is a 1/4 of the 8mg tablet, am I breaking up a 1/4 into 4 pieces to get the .25? (this is where it could get a little confusing for me.)...

Thanks
BM

NO! Don't make it so complicated. You're taking 4.5mg just like you said. So if you cut a 8mg pill in half, that's 4mg just cut it a tiny bit over 4mg (call it 4.5mg). That's close enough for our purposes. Get it as close as you can eyeballing it. It's not that big of a deal while you're at this big of a dose. Just do the best you can. God bless.

[sillygeel]

Robert...I am doing this. Today I will go as far as I can with the moving. My pain is real and it is probably due to stress and more lifting than I have done since my body building days. I will check in tomorrow. Also, I would like to read up on benzo withdrawal before I tackle that ordeal. Is there a website I can read out tapering without full on seizures? I have quit cold turkey before but I was only at 2 mg. However, it was intense and crying a lot and seating and absolutely no sleep! My theory is "whatever high you get from any med's you can expect the opposite when withdrawing! i.e...uppers withdrawal=sleep, downers=no sleep etc...bless everyone, LM

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by sillygeel

Robert...I am doing this. Today I will go as far as I can with the moving. My pain is real and it is probably due to stress and more lifting than I have done since my body building days. I will check in tomorrow. Also, I would like to read up on benzo withdrawal before I tackle that ordeal. Is there a website I can read out tapering without full on seizures? I have quit cold turkey before but I was only at 2 mg. However, it was intense and crying a lot and seating and absolutely no sleep! My theory is "whatever high you get from any med's you can expect the opposite when withdrawing! i.e...uppers withdrawal=sleep, downers=no sleep etc...bless everyone, LM

Hi Sillygeel

Here is the site it it's a very good one...

http://www.benzo.org.uk

good luck Im sure you will do well...
Talk to you later, Melinda

[ingodnito]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

NO! Don't make it so complicated. You're taking 4.5mg just like you said. So if you cut a 8mg pill in half, that's 4mg just cut it a tiny bit over 4mg (call it 4.5mg). That's close enough for our purposes. Get it as close as you can eyeballing it. It's not that big of a deal while you're at this big of a dose. Just do the best you can. God bless.

Hi Robert, I've never done this before so it is a bit complicated for me. I was confused about it when I was taking 1/2 a tab....so your explanation is appreciated. (math was not my best subject).

I'll let you know how its going later. Thanks.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by ingodnito

Hi Robert, I've never done this before so it is a bit complicated for me. I was confused about it when I was taking 1/2 a tab....so your explanation is appreciated. (math was not my best subject).

I'll let you know how its going later. Thanks.

Don't let the doses confuse you. All I do is put the number of mg in a calculator and multiply the dose by .75 as that's a 25% reduction. Then I round off the amount to what can be seen with an eye pretty easily and make that the dose. So it's not a big scientific thing.

You're currently at 4.5mg so take 4.5 X .75 = 3.375mg. That is a pretty hard dose to cut your pill down to so I would just call it 3.4mg. So when you cut that you could even use the piece of the pill that's left over from this dose when you cut away 4.5mg. Some will have turned to powder so the piece you have left over should be very close to 3.4mg .... save those pieces.

This isn't really that complicated. Just think about what you're doing. God bless.

[Robert_325]

Lisa-Marie .... when you go to the site Melinda referred you to look at the Ashton Manual. Dr Helen Ashton is a reknowned authority on benzo addiction and detoxing. Her method is printed out with specific instructions. It's a long slow taper that will be basically painless if you follow it. Benzo detox can be painful, agonizing and dangerous if done too quickly. Follow the Ashton method and it will be tolerable. God bless.

[tabcat]

Has anyone else had extreme fatigue on their fourth day of tapering? Not to jump out of my own log, but there's a lot of you in here, and today I'm on day 4 of 1.5 = I've got chills, back pain, extreme fatigue, shakiness...blurred vision...it's weird. I feel really parched as well. I'm drinking lots of water, but I'm sooo sleepy. I feel afraid to lie down because I just might sleep...for a long time.

[sillygeel]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Lisa-Marie .... when you go to the site Melinda referred you to look at the Ashton Manual. Dr Helen Ashton is a reknowned authority on benzo addiction and detoxing. Her method is printed out with specific instructions. It's a long slow taper that will be basically painless if you follow it. Benzo detox can be painful, agonizing and dangerous if done too quickly. Follow the Ashton method and it will be tolerable. God bless.

God Bless us all! I am suffering tremendously with my back however, I am cutting my sub to 1/20? I will read the benzo info and hey, thanks!!

[sillygeel]

Originally Posted by tabcat

Has anyone else had extreme fatigue on their fourth day of tapering? Not to jump out of my own log, but there's a lot of you in here, and today I'm on day 4 of 1.5 = I've got chills, back pain, extreme fatigue, shakiness...blurred vision...it's weird. I feel really parched as well. I'm drinking lots of water, but I'm sooo sleepy. I feel afraid to lie down because I just might sleep...for a long time.

YEAP!! I am right there with you! Hang in there. I AM!! BREATH! GOD is good to all of us addicts! Take care of yourself. LM

[ingodnito]

Hi everyone. Thank you all for your support. I wont be returning after today. I really cannot stand the condescending manner in which I'm being spoken to. At this point, I'd rather go through withdrawals and be totally done with it. Robert, email, written messages can be seriously misconstrued if not typed carefully. Tough love isn't always the way. People are hurting in here, and not everyone understands the math. I understand youre helping a lot of people, but if you can't handle the amount of people reaching out to you, then maybe you should put a cap on it. Personally? It took everything I had in me not to say this sooner. But you can be pretty rude. And that kind of thing will chase people away. Not help them. So, having said all that...peace out.