[sillygeel]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

I have tried every patch and every type of pain medication known to man. Absolutely nothing ever really worked when I was having a REAL flare-up from one or more of my legitimate health problems. That's the bottom line.

I would NEVER want it to be said that I recommend prednisone for pain. I hate that stuff. When you previously read me saying that I was considering using some of my prednisone for my knee you have to remember that I have three autoimmune diseases.

I normally take three 800mg Ibuprofen each day for pain and inflammation due to my RA and for my Raynaud's Phenomenon. Most Rheumatologists will RX one of the injectable drugs for RA like humira or something similar. But because the Raynaud's leaves me prone to infection with meds that I would inject I can't take them. I have to keep a supply of prednisone and methotrexate, neither of which I would recommend to anyone on this forum for pain even though I use them at times. Prednisone is a steroid and methotrexate is a chemo drug. They are both bad news unless you have an illness that requires them.

Prednisone makes it difficult to maintain a decent weight, it causes personality changes (and not good ones!), it's terrible to come off of when you take if for a while ... the side effects of stopping prednisone too quickly are very painful. I would stay away from prednisone entirely unless you have a VERY good reason for taking it. And even then you really need to know how to take it or it will cause you all kinds of problems.

Taking prednisone for a couple days for normal pain makes no sense to me at all. When I take prednisone for inflammation due to RA I will take like 30-40mg for about four days, then drop by 5-10mg every 4-5 days depending on my progress. I only take it when my joints get so inflammed and swollen I can't stand it. I really suggest you stay away from it. I would NEVER take it if I didn't have the autoimmune problems. God bless.

Robert:
Sounds like you have helped many folks. I have 4 autoimmune diseases so it prompted me to seek education into nutritional science. I graduated and I too, have helped many as I am also a recovering junkie. Long-story really short "addiction and allergy ARE synonymous." From what I have read in this forum you too have the same disease as I. I am currently on 2 mg of suboxone and 3 mg lorazepam and trying to set an example to my ill patients with proper nutrition life can get better. I believe I have cured myself from an early death from my autoimmune diseases. I suffered with debilitating pain. I was a professional bodybuilder (no steroids, ever!) and did a lot of damage to my back and lower body to where I couldn't lift my leg to step that is how I started on PK then subs etc.... Today, I have NO pain b/c I did food allergy testing and found out that I was intolerant to all grains and that red meat caused inflammation which is the source of 85% of all peoples physical pain. It really is simple if you think about the chemistry of the body. In a nutshell, Alcohol is made from grain I am a recovering alcoholic thus causing a legal drug addict. You seem intelligent enough to do some research on food allergies, pain and autoimmune diseases, I bet you will be amazed at what you learn. Nutrition and genetics are cutting edge therapy! Also, try arnica oil on your knees. You can find this oil at any health food store; it decreases pain and promotes circulation. If you want some help I can provide this if you follow proper instructions. I guarantee you will feel better than ever and you may not have to get your body cut upon. Surgery used to be an emergency type of action to save ones life. Today it is used as a huge money maker for both doctors and pharmacies, and most of all kills many innocent people. I am laughing b/c I just re-read my beginning to this message "long story really short." LOL ....Changing long learned food habits is much more challenging than any drug I have done and kicked; I wish I could say the list was short;( Let's just say I am humble today. I am a work in progress. God is good.

[xxhelzxx]

well Im on my 3rd day at .25 and i was doing great till i woke up this morning with my throte about closed and on fire along with my nasal passages. (ie Im fuggin sick) Im caughing up toxic waste. neon green stuff, and ive just about lost my voice. figures Ide get sick right at the end of my taper. maybe its the flying redd a$$ed babboon flu.

[hopeful32]

Originally Posted by sillygeel

Robert:
Sounds like you have helped many folks. I have 4 autoimmune diseases so it prompted me to seek education into nutritional science. I graduated and I too, have helped many as I am also a recovering junkie. Long-story really short "addiction and allergy ARE synonymous." From what I have read in this forum you too have the same disease as I. I am currently on 2 mg of suboxone and 3 mg lorazepam and trying to set an example to my ill patients with proper nutrition life can get better. I believe I have cured myself from an early death from my autoimmune diseases. I suffered with debilitating pain. I was a professional bodybuilder (no steroids, ever!) and did a lot of damage to my back and lower body to where I couldn't lift my leg to step that is how I started on PK then subs etc.... Today, I have NO pain b/c I did food allergy testing and found out that I was intolerant to all grains and that red meat caused inflammation which is the source of 85% of all peoples physical pain. It really is simple if you think about the chemistry of the body. In a nutshell, Alcohol is made from grain I am a recovering alcoholic thus causing a legal drug addict. You seem intelligent enough to do some research on food allergies, pain and autoimmune diseases, I bet you will be amazed at what you learn. Nutrition and genetics are cutting edge therapy! Also, try arnica oil on your knees. You can find this oil at any health food store; it decreases pain and promotes circulation. If you want some help I can provide this if you follow proper instructions. I guarantee you will feel better than ever and you may not have to get your body cut upon. Surgery used to be an emergency type of action to save ones life. Today it is used as a huge money maker for both doctors and pharmacies, and most of all kills many innocent people. I am laughing b/c I just re-read my beginning to this message "long story really short." LOL ....Changing long learned food habits is much more challenging than any drug I have done and kicked; I wish I could say the list was short;( Let's just say I am humble today. I am a work in progress. God is good.

Sillygeel- Right on, right on, right on! I agree with everything you've said about nutrition and inflamation...gluten-free and grain-free is the way to go for ALL autoimmune dieases...I'd love to share my diet w/ you that my fiance coaches to people as a profession...he's an x-body builder as well (won title in the Texas Shreder a few years ago- also all natural competitor) and realized that nutition had a direct correlation to EVERYTHING. Most people think it's hokey and out-there, but I truly believe it's the medication making us sicker- the money is in the medicine, not the cure...

Health and feeling GREAT is ours for the taking if we just take that leap of faith and try something different and unconventional.

I'd be curious to hear what your nutrtional habits are...instead of pill poison, my passion is all things good for me...

Kameron

[hopeful32]

Originally Posted by xxhelzxx

well Im on my 3rd day at .25 and i was doing great till i woke up this morning with my throte about closed and on fire along with my nasal passages. (ie Im fuggin sick) Im caughing up toxic waste. neon green stuff, and ive just about lost my voice. figures Ide get sick right at the end of my taper. maybe its the flying redd a$$ed babboon flu.

Helz-
Are you sure it's not w/ds? You know- flu-like symptoms? I've had the red assed baboon flu...it's not as bad as you think...I got a lot of preferred seating

Hope you feel better either way

[xxhelzxx]

nahh, its some infection in my throte and nose. im getting some antibiotics today for it. im caughing up umpah lumpas. I DO have the

[tjhook]

Originally Posted by hopeful32

Man, it sound like things are very difficult for you right now...and I'll bet all of those things can be traced back to what your dealing with chemically in your body. We don't realize how different we are on meds from our true authentic self...At least that's been my experience. Your perception is YOUR reality, but once you're off the poison, miracles begin to take place.

So if you can, focus on the present and how dedicated you are to work your taper plan. The future will happen regardless, but if you're too focused on it, or too worried about the past, then you're stagnant. I think it's good to be aware of all those things, but not to get caught up in them...it can stall your recovery process, trust me.

Six months from now you could be in a completely different place in your life...great relationship w/ your woman, better job b/c you'll be thinking more clearly than you have in a long time (and people WILL notice the difference), and having that peace and fullfillment that I believe is really what we all initially wanted, but just thought it came in pill form. Imagine feeling your body's natural opiates just form the pure enjoyment of your life. We were created to feel pleasure- naturally. I thank God that he's breaking you right now...you'll be the better for it, I promise.

Brokeness is under-rated and the only true way to find authentic peace and contentment.
Hold on tight...you'll make it!
Kameron

Kameron,

Thanks for that, yeah I have definately not been me for the past few years....as many here understand that. Many of us have been used to relying on a pill to feel "good", and I am just happy that soon I will be able to enjoy feeling good naturally. Things are definately ********py right now in my life but I have a LOT to be thankful for, so I am just focusing on that and my taper plan for now......the rest will sort itself out later.

Hope all is well with you and everybody else around here....we can throw out this addiction garbage!

TJ

[xxhelzxx]

, its some infection in my throte and nose. im getting some antibiotics today for it. im caughing up umpah lumpas. I DO have the

uhhh yea i guess i had a brain freeze. I meant I DO have the flue like symptoms but this infection should be knocked out by monday. and moday being the first dat I skip to my lue my darlings. Im getting back into musical entertaining so ive been wrighting alot and stage choreography. all rank stank dank horror show evil goodness. it takes my mind off this taper and keeps the stagnant feeling away. I feel my old self coming back.
Alla bless you all, and mozel taogh and soforth.

[sillygeel]

OK, I am doing better than I was a year ago. However, I still wake up everyday (for 2 months now) slip my little orange 1/4 sub under my tongue and wait to feel it. What the heck?? I probably go through withdrawal every night for the past 60 days (sweating, insomnia etc...). I am sooooooo stuck. Yeah, it's not like it was 2 years ago when I was taking five different colored pills in great amounts but this is just pathetic! I do not know what to do as I am almost positive that a rehab would laugh at me then show me the door! This is my deal, I take my sub in the morning, come 4-6 PM everyday I get an overwhelming feeling of anxiousness and anxiety so I slip 2 mg ativan under my tongue (3 mg if it's really bad) and whoa-la I do not care about anything (other than my dogs)! I have survived chemo, three autoimmune diseases, two near death complications in the hospital...... blah blah blah, but I can't seem to just STOP! Help, I am just killing myself slower. What's up with that????co nfused:

[hopeful32]

Sillygeel-
First of all, you shouldn't be having any daily w/d symptoms from the subs whatsoever, as the half life is 36 hours more or less and doesn't even begin to rear it's ugly head until usually two days after your last dose. That's why you only half to take one a day, and not multiple doses throughout...it stays in your system for a very long time.

However, you can still feel anxiety and panicky, etc. but they're not arising from sub w/d every night...if anything it's probably the Ativan that's created a rebound anxiety affect. I've been there too...Once we start taking benzos, our bodies don't know how to physically or physiologically deal with anxiety or fear...Why should they???- the work is being done for us by the benzo.

Robert should be able to taper you down w/out w/d symptoms if you listen to him. I DID NOT listen and stopped 3 mg cold turkey which ended up making me take a month off of work for a medical leave...not only that, but It was the hardest thing I've ever done...EVER- and I've had meningitis and an almost 9lb baby w/out ANY drugs- and I'm really small... I didn't think I was going to make it- But I did. I still wish that I'd listened to Robert b/c I'm still physically recovering from the detox (was also taking 90 mgs of adderall- ).

BTW- I tried to be admitted into a rehab facility, and yes- they did laugh. Don't get me started on rehab's and suboxone... It's way too new a drug and they have no idea about how to deal with it. I called eleven places, and they all told me that I wasn't abusing it, that I wasn't even taking the recommended dose, so I needed to go see my prescribing doc. F*** that!- he's the one who told me I should be on the poison for life...F***ing drug pushers!

You'll get there, but exercise your patience and check into this forum often...the people on here are amazing...This place saved me from myself...

Everyone Else- Love to you all and have a beautiful Sunday my dear friends


Blessings
Kameron

[intelmetal]

Questions for Robert ?

I completed day 4 @ 3.5mg yesterday & felt better than I have felt in years. I will do 2.5mg today and continue this for 3 more days as you have suggested. My 1st question for you is, Am I in the so-called "honeymoon period" or is it supposed to get better on the 4th day @ a particular taper. Today will be my 13th day on subs, started @ 8mg/day, now 1st day @2.5mg. I 1st saw my Dr. on Monday, May 4, 2009 and my 2nd visit is tomorrow Monday, May 18, 2009. I started w/ a script of 15 8mg subs, I will have 6 8mg subs leftover after today's dose, so that means I have taken a total of 9 8mg subs in 2 weeks. This leftover amount is do to my tapering, which I do not want to tell my Dr. about.
My 2nd question is about all the info I have been seeing on 21 day fast taper. Is the 21 day taper realistic or a pipe dream ?
Thanks in advance for your time, it is much appreciated ! Any tips ?
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

[xxhelzxx]

OK, I am doing better than I was a year ago. However, I still wake up everyday (for 2 months now) slip my little orange 1/4 sub under my tongue and wait to feel it. What the heck?? I probably go through withdrawal every night for the past 60 days (sweating, insomnia etc...). I am sooooooo stuck. Yeah, it's not like it was 2 years ago when I was taking five different colored pills in great amounts but this is just pathetic! I do not know what to do as I am almost positive that a rehab would laugh at me then show me the door! This is my deal, I take my sub in the morning, come 4-6 PM everyday I get an overwhelming feeling of anxiousness and anxiety so I slip 2 mg ativan under my tongue (3 mg if it's really bad) and whoa-la I do not care about anything (other than my dogs)! I have survived chemo, three autoimmune diseases, two near death complications in the hospital...... blah blah blah, but I can't seem to just STOP! Help, I am just killing myself slower. What's up with that????co nfused:

I would have to say the w/ds u r feeling is from the benzos like hopeful said. you can taper off the subs without w/ds if you do it right. you are in the right place i can tell you that. dedicate yourself to getting off the subs and listen to the people on this forum and youll be off in no time with no w/ds. when you're done with the subs you can kick the benzo's. just know that there are people here that know what the hell they are talking about. more so then most Dr's when it comes to w/ds and kicking opiats and benzo's. I dont think its courage and/or strength that you're lacking. its the fear of w/ds but you are amongst people who can get you through this with very little to NO w/ds. bring it

[xxhelzxx]

I completed day 4 @ 3.5mg yesterday & felt better than I have felt in years. I will do 2.5mg today and continue this for 3 more days as you have suggested. My 1st question for you is, Am I in the so-called "honeymoon period" or is it supposed to get better on the 4th day @ a particular taper. Today will be my 13th day on subs, started @ 8mg/day, now 1st day @2.5mg. I 1st saw my Dr. on Monday, May 4, 2009 and my 2nd visit is tomorrow Monday, May 18, 2009. I started w/ a script of 15 8mg subs, I will have 6 8mg subs leftover after today's dose, so that means I have taken a total of 9 8mg subs in 2 weeks. This leftover amount is do to my tapering, which I do not want to tell my Dr. about.
My 2nd question is about all the info I have been seeing on 21 day fast taper. Is the 21 day taper realistic or a pipe dream ?
Thanks in advance for your time, it is much appreciated ! Any tips ?

if you are going to have any w/d at all it will hit you on the 4th or 5th day of your last drop. sounds like you are doing great.

I dont know anything about a 21 day taper. It takes what it takes to make it through your taper. just keep doing what you do. you arent going to feel as good as you did but you arent going to be in hell as you would if you didnt taper but if you go back a few pages and look at the diets and suppliments that have been suggested they help you to feel ALOT better while you're do your taper. a good diet and exersize is vital in feeling good while going through this. good luck mate

[intelmetal]

Thanks xxhelzxx, Your response means so much to me. I can do this with feedback like that. I am doing lots of exersize, mostly bike riding and walking fast for several miles a day, also eating right and staying hydrated. I take 2 good multi-vitamins plus Emergen-C powdered drink mix w/ water. It has lots of good stuff in it, like B vitamins & minerals. Bananas are also helpful as a snack between meals.
IWANTOUT

to live my life and to be free !

P.S. I would like to here from Robert to. This is a shout out. LOL

[tjhook]

How is everybody doin out there?

Today is my last day at 6mg and start the first of 4 days of 4mg tomorrow, everything is going well so far.

Today I played in the local qualifier for the U.S. Open Golf Championship and played like ********..........but, I was happy today. In the past I would have been all bent out of shape and ticked off.....but I was ok with it today, mainly because I have been feeling so much better getting clean from the pills/booze.

I guess the reason I am saying this is because cleaning up has been a very positive experience for the most part...and it has made me realize how lucky I am that I didn't continue down the path I was going. If I can do it anyone can.

Take care all, hope all is well!

TJ

[melinda7.5]

Hi tj
Glad to hear you sound so positive...your going to do great...you would get a good laugh if you seen me try to golf...I went to the range and did buckets...
OH my,,,That was funny ...
Have a good night...
Talk to you later, Melinda

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by hopeful32

Sillygeel-
First of all, you shouldn't be having any daily w/d symptoms from the subs whatsoever, as the half life is 36 hours more or less and doesn't even begin to rear it's ugly head until usually two days after your last dose. That's why you only half to take one a day, and not multiple doses throughout...it stays in your system for a very long time.

However, you can still feel anxiety and panicky, etc. but they're not arising from sub w/d every night...if anything it's probably the Ativan that's created a rebound anxiety affect. I've been there too...Once we start taking benzos, our bodies don't know how to physically or physiologically deal with anxiety or fear...Why should they???- the work is being done for us by the benzo.

Robert should be able to taper you down w/out w/d symptoms if you listen to him. I DID NOT listen and stopped 3 mg cold turkey which ended up making me take a month off of work for a medical leave...not only that, but It was the hardest thing I've ever done...EVER- and I've had meningitis and an almost 9lb baby w/out ANY drugs- and I'm really small... I didn't think I was going to make it- But I did. I still wish that I'd listened to Robert b/c I'm still physically recovering from the detox (was also taking 90 mgs of adderall- ).

BTW- I tried to be admitted into a rehab facility, and yes- they did laugh. Don't get me started on rehab's and suboxone... It's way too new a drug and they have no idea about how to deal with it. I called eleven places, and they all told me that I wasn't abusing it, that I wasn't even taking the recommended dose, so I needed to go see my prescribing doc. F*** that!- he's the one who told me I should be on the poison for life...F***ing drug pushers!

You'll get there, but exercise your patience and check into this forum often...the people on here are amazing...This place saved me from myself...

Everyone Else- Love to you all and have a beautiful Sunday my dear friends


Blessings
Kameron

There you are it seems like I haven't got to say hi for ever...
I'm waiting around till 9:00 o clock till I can go get Robert at the airport...
the time just will not move...
how are you doing and how is that cute little boy...
Hope all is well...
Melinda

[sillygeel]

Originally Posted by xxhelzxx

I would have to say the w/ds u r feeling is from the benzos like hopeful said. you can taper off the subs without w/ds if you do it right. you are in the right place i can tell you that. dedicate yourself to getting off the subs and listen to the people on this forum and youll be off in no time with no w/ds. when you're done with the subs you can kick the benzo's. just know that there are people here that know what the hell they are talking about. more so then most Dr's when it comes to w/ds and kicking opiats and benzo's. I dont think its courage and/or strength that you're lacking. its the fear of w/ds but you are amongst people who can get you through this with very little to NO w/ds. bring it

OK, let's do this! Do I stop taking the 1/4 pill for 2 days then take another? I want to know when can I expect to see the end? Currently: 2 mg. sub in morning, 3 mg benzo at night? I hate this cycle. I need help. I just went to doc said I need to cut the ******** out, then hands me 60 pills WITH A REFILL?? Come on already..........HELP, I do not want to suffer, the benzos came in with the higher dose subs. one pill to help another (sounds like a song?)

[sillygeel]

Originally Posted by xxhelzxx

I would have to say the w/ds u r feeling is from the benzos like hopeful said. you can taper off the subs without w/ds if you do it right. you are in the right place i can tell you that. dedicate yourself to getting off the subs and listen to the people on this forum and youll be off in no time with no w/ds. when you're done with the subs you can kick the benzo's. just know that there are people here that know what the hell they are talking about. more so then most Dr's when it comes to w/ds and kicking opiats and benzo's. I dont think its courage and/or strength that you're lacking. its the fear of w/ds but you are amongst people who can get you through this with very little to NO w/ds. bring it

OK.........Let's do this!! I have beat harder things like dying. I would rather die trying to beat this addiction ******** than continue living for pharmaceiticals! Screw them............why in the heck would anyone make a pain killer that gives you euphoria when people in pain are suffering and need rest? Not feeling so high you could take on the world with one hand tied behind your back! (me on vicodin) (oh yeah, at least at first!) I want to be free and clear headed and strong again! Tired of fighting a a ridiculous battle. Just give me a set of directions and I will comply. I will try not to go into my past w/d's in my mind!

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by sillygeel

OK, let's do this! Do I stop taking the 1/4 pill for 2 days then take another? I want to know when can I expect to see the end? Currently: 2 mg. sub in morning, 3 mg benzo at night? I hate this cycle. I need help. I just went to doc said I need to cut the ******** out, then hands me 60 pills WITH A REFILL?? Come on already..........HELP, I do not want to suffer, the benzos came in with the higher dose subs. one pill to help another (sounds like a song?)

You ABSOLUTELY DO NOT want to start skipping days at 2mg. You'll be one sick human being if you do that. Helz never told you to start skipping days at 2mg. That would be insane!

How long have you been on benzos? And what benzo are you taking 3mg of? You also need to start tapering off the benzos. The sub/benzo combo can end up causing a drug interaction resulting in respiratory depression. You don't need the benzos if you're doing the subs properly.

You reduce your dose by 25% of the total daily dose every four days so long as you aren't suffering w/d symptoms. That 25% becomes a smaller number as your daily dose reduces. You don't begin skipping days until you're down to AT LEAST .5mg maybe less depending on how you do.

If you want me to work with you I'll walk you through this. I was traveling yesterday but I'm back. If you're willing to follow my suggestions I'll help you end this sub business, but I need you to follow what I say to the letter. Got to be naive enough to do what I ask. God bless.

[xxhelzxx]

YOOoooo. sorry if im hard to understand. my A.D.D. makes me skipp around subjects. ill send you a decoder ring so you can read my posts with ease. OK so I skipped my .25mg dose yestrerday with no problem, by no problem i mean i felt a little drained, back muscles hurt, and my stomach was bubbling, i took an amodium around lnch and drank some pepto last ngiht, cleared it up. today i feel fine. i drank a gallon of coffee and have 5 5hour energy drinks to keep me bouncing around my office. 5 x 5 = 25 so i have an extra hour or energy today. lol, I dont really have 5 of those things. i have 12. . so i skipp 2 days starting tomorrow.

[tjhook]

Originally Posted by melinda7.5

Hi tj
Glad to hear you sound so positive...your going to do great...you would get a good laugh if you seen me try to golf...I went to the range and did buckets...
OH my,,,That was funny ...
Have a good night...
Talk to you later, Melinda

As a part time golf instructor I will just say this..........head still, relaxed grip, center the ball in your stance and swing full and hard.

I would suggest a 6 pack of beer while golfing but for people like us I will suggest cursing a LOT

Thanks Melinda

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by tjhook

As a part time golf instructor I will just say this..........head still, relaxed grip, center the ball in your stance and swing full and hard.

I would suggest a 6 pack of beer while golfing but for people like us I will suggest cursing a LOT

Thanks Melinda

I used to shoot about 81-83 but it's been a few years ago. If you saw me play now you'd recommend a quart of scotch over a six pack. God bless.

[tjhook]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

I used to shoot about 81-83 but it's been a few years ago. If you saw me play now you'd recommend a quart of scotch over a six pack. God bless.

81-83 is not bad at all my man.....I know a lot of players at the club who would love to shoot those #'s.

As for the scotch....I would suggest vodka as an alternative.....at least I would here in Northern Cali where it is HOT right now!

Scotch in the winter, vodka in the summer as a rule of thumb

[xxhelzxx]

i played dodgeball with golf balls once. i dont remember the score

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by tjhook

As a part time golf instructor I will just say this..........head still, relaxed grip, center the ball in your stance and swing full and hard.

I would suggest a 6 pack of beer while golfing but for people like us I will suggest cursing a LOT

Thanks Melinda

That was funny ...I will give that 6 pack a try next time...
Have a good day, Melinda

[tjhook]

Originally Posted by xxhelzxx

i played dodgeball with golf balls once. i dont remember the score

LOL remind me not to try that game

[nelly005]

Geez, all this talk about golf I feel like I'm talking, no listening to my husband. We have the senior qualifier coming to our club in July...I hope we're out of town. LOL

Hey TJ we're in the same area? N.Ca, Do you give women lessons. I've played off and on for a long time but I think I'm hopeless!? My husband would be the happiest man on earth if I could play for real, vacations would be more fun too! He plays to a 9.

Helz, again I can always visualize your antics....you still have the great legs of a cheerleader, but now I see them covered in welts!! OUCH

Note to all, I woke up yesterday, got busy and around noon I realized I had forgot to take my morning Tylenol...I swear no pain or a lot less!!!! Two weeks ago I would have thought I'd go crazy if I wasn't able to at least take something!! The healing has begun!

Beth

[tjhook]

Originally Posted by nelly005

Geez, all this talk about golf I feel like I'm talking, no listening to my husband. We have the senior qualifier coming to our club in July...I hope we're out of town. LOL

Hey TJ we're in the same area? N.Ca, Do you give women lessons. I've played off and on for a long time but I think I'm hopeless!? My husband would be the happiest man on earth if I could play for real, vacations would be more fun too! He plays to a 9.

Helz, again I can always visualize your antics....you still have the great legs of a cheerleader, but now I see them covered in welts!! OUCH

Note to all, I woke up yesterday, got busy and around noon I realized I had forgot to take my morning Tylenol...I swear no pain or a lot less!!!! Two weeks ago I would have thought I'd go crazy if I wasn't able to at least take something!! The healing has begun!

Beth

Hi Beth,

I have given many women lessons, and many of them have come to me because their boyfriend/husband plays and they want to learn. Usually this results in the boyfriend/husband getting mad at me

I am in the Fresno area....don't know where you are located but if you are ever in my area I will make sure to give you a discount for being part of the site

Hope all is well!

TJ

[hopeful32]

Does Frisbee golf count?? I'll take you all on...just bring it!

Melinda...I've missed you too the past few days. My little one's doing great- thanks for asking. I'm soooo much of a better mother these days..and I have to say, I was a pretty F***ing great mother before, but now- WOW! What a difference!

I know you're beyond ecstatic to have Robert there...please tell him hello for me. I need your physical address and the wedding date- don't worry, I won't be crashing- Can't speak for Helz though, so be careful

So Helz- Man, can you believe how far you've come?? I'm thrilled for you my friend...your strength is impressive...your humor is contagious and your man-makeup is high quality sh**...basically, you rock.

Beth- So sorry I have yet to send you your info again to your correct e-mail. I had 748 e-mails to go through the past week since going back to work, but I WILL get it to you. I'm usually more on the ball- but I'm just doing what I can do right now.

TJ and Intelmetal and Sillygeel- I'm proud of all of you for having such an amazing desire to be clean...it's better than you could ever remember...I was a long time vic addict- I've heard it called "Synthetic God" cause it makes you feel so invincable (can't spell)...Hang in there...you'll all be better than ever...Just read back at the posts on this forum if you ever have doubts that THIS PLACE WORKS! Saved me and countless others.

Quick update:
Work is great- getting back into my groovaliscious bad self really fast. By "bad", I mean "good"- I'm trying to stay hip. HA!

Love to you all my dear friends...

Kameron

[sillygeel]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

You ABSOLUTELY DO NOT want to start skipping days at 2 mg. You'll be one sick human being if you do that. Helz never told you to start skipping days at. That would be insane!

How long have you been on benzos? And what benzo are you taking 3mg of? You also need to start tapering off the benzos. The sub/benzo combo can end up causing a drug interaction resulting in respiratory depression. You don't need the benzos if you're doing the subs properly.

You reduce your dose by 25% of the total daily dose every four days so long as you aren't suffering w/d symptoms. That 25% becomes a smaller number as your daily dose reduces. You don't begin skipping days until you're down to AT LEAST .5mg maybe less depending on how you do.

If you want me to work with you I'll walk you through this. I was traveling yesterday but I'm back. If you're willing to follow my suggestions I'll help you end this sub business, but I need you to follow what I say to the letter. Got to be naive enough to do what I ask. God bless.

Robert,
OK I take 2 mg of sub in am around 4PM I take 1 mg ativan, then 2 mg ativan until I fall asleep. (14 months ativan)......upon waking it begins again, everyday for 14 months subs now;( Initially the doc put me on 4 mg 2 X daily because of opiate abuse, now I supposedly take subs for chronic pain. I cleaned up diet and fasted for 2 weeks and I had a spiritually awakening! I have NO MORE PAIN so, I have no excuse for using. However, because of my past chemo, anathesia from 12 surgeries since 2001, my system is so erratic. I want, for myself, to be clean from addictive substances. This is one hell of a pickle to say the least. I hate it! I have absolutely NO trust in doctors. I forgive all of them as they know no better and most have not ever taken these drugs (who really cares) So with that YES, please guide me through this as I need to get back to living again as these autoimmune diseases could rear their ugly heads and kill me before I do what God wants me to do; to help others get well nutritionally! I must add, if you can be as simple as possible I would surely appreciate that gesture as I feel pretty toxic at the moment! Before I send my complaint about my suboxone dealer (doctor) should I count the little pieces I have left? How many will this take to taper successfully? Hey, thanks............Lisa-Marie