[hopeful32]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Kameron ... I remember that when I detoxed off oxy I went the better part of three months without sleep. I'm serious! I was taking thirty 30mg roxies a day by prescription plus 30-40 lorcets on top of that along with 15-20mg xanax, 6-8mg klonopin and 20 plus soma a day. I was an idiot. Had been abusing the drugs since the late 1960s. Smart huh???

I'm serious I didn't sleep for months. Then one morning I woke up and I had slept like 4-5 hours straight. The lack of sleep won't kill us unlike the pills. No sleep is a small price to pay to be rid of all the garbage from our bodies. Hang in there ... God bless.

I know you're right Robert...but I want it NOOOOOW! Patience has never been my thing- perhaps this is the Great Lesson I'm embarking upon. I thank the Lord for you everyday Robert- (well all of you here) and am so glad that you survived your unbelievable story. Much appreciation to you and Melinda...

K

[nelly005]

I was on Methadone and Norco for cervical pain, norco for 2+ years and methadone for 8 months, I found out months later methadone was addictive. I got off norco, slow taper, first and then a week of slow taper with methadone...three weeks in all of tapering....but it worked. The first few days I thought about norco 30+ times per day....desperation!!! Today maybe 5 times...but not desperation, just a longing for it. Hopefully soon just a bad memory! But the lesson will be there for the rest of my life!!
I'm so very glad to have found this group of people I felt very alone for a while.
Take care!!!!!
Nelly

[hopeful32]

update:
Haven't felt this good in three weeks...I still don't feel great, but wow! Compared to the last few days, it's quite an improvement. I guess one of the hardest things to deal with is the fact that I can only run 1/2 a mile at this point...BUT- my profession is a based on fitness. Hell, I'm based on fitness. I've been a yoga instructor for three years, a dancer (NOT exoctic, although I could probably teach some serious moves..LOL.) a gymnist, and work with the most renound athletes and physicians on the planet....And I can't run but a 1/2 mile??? Amazing!!

It's all pride though...even me spilling this out to all of you is about pride- it's one of them seven deadlies. Pride got me into pills inthe first place, so I'm really concienscious about the fk'r...it sneeks up on me real fast- I'm too competitive. I don't want to be a "Dry Drunk"...I want to be truly clean and pure...body mind and soul. The body's taking the longest...I'm 35- will be 36 in June and I hope I get my stamina back.....much love to all...Man I can ramble!

K

[hopeful32]

Helz- This is a link to an interesting and inspiring article that my fiance (a naturo-pathic exercise physiologist and organic nutrition activist) says, in his opinion, is right on. But, who knows-
You have to sustitute the word suboxone for methadone in the article, but I think the guy's a genius. Many may disagree with me on his theory of tapering, but I can honestly say that I think he's totally on. The last time I quit subs cold turkey (stopped 4mgs instantly) and landed in the ER with diladid in my arm b/c the docs think in shocked my system into viral meneingits Don't know if I agree with that bringing on the meningitis, but I do know that when I got out of the hospital ten days later, I threw away EVERY pill they stocked me with- That was the hardest time ever- It was BAD...and then about 3 days in I found a tiny peice of suboxone...it was as small as a poppy seed, not even a bread crumb. And, of course I took it. BIG MISTAKE! I felt great fo 24 hours and then had another three weeks of total misery. For me, I don't think it matters how much I take- it comes bites back no matter what.

Anyway, thought it might interest you- http://www.dpeg.org/treatment/methadone_withdrawal.htm

K- Your'e in my thoughts my friend-

[melinda7.5]

Hi kameron
I'm sure I told you when I started to exercise again I could only do about two minutes a day on the tread mill...I just keeped working my way up...
I think your doing great...
Did you get that pic???
Talk to you soon, Melinda

[hopeful32]

NO- Did you send it??? I'm gonna look right now.

Thanks for the encouragement- You Rock. Chat at you soon

K

[hopeful32]

Thanks Melinda for the pics...you lifte\ my spirits Always-
K

[hopeful32]

Man, I'm on here a lot...but it's like going to a meeting for me...so I ain't going anywhere! I'm about to go try and run a1/2 mile again. hehe...Melinda- you've inspired me

I had the best morning though- Went sailing (the term I use for garage- saling) w/ my son and had a great time with him. I only thought about how bad I still feel about 50 or 60 times all morning, which is less than it's been in three weeks.

I know how I've stated before that I wanted to kick evrything...even coffee- haven't had it in a month....until today. I LOVE it and it makes feel good.

Is that a relapse?? Don't laugh b/c I/m serious when I ask that. I used to drink 3 triple latte's a day (9 shots) w/ 90mg of adderall and 16 mgs of subs and 5 nicotine pathches on my back. And I couldn't ever scrub the sticky stuff off from the patches, so I had all these little squares all over my body. Great for a fitness "guru"!
Anyway, my point is, I want to be held accountable before I even take an ibuprophen....it's a slippery slope and I've used coffee to get my rocks off before...But man I feel great!

Kameron

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by hopeful32

Man, I'm on here a lot...but it's like going to a meeting for me...so I ain't going anywhere! I'm about to go try and run a1/2 mile again. hehe...Melinda- you've inspired me.

I had the best morning though- Went sailing (the term I use for garage- saling) w/ my son and had a great time with him. I only thought about how bad I still feel about 50 or 60 times all morning, which is less than it's been in three weeks.

I know how I've stated before that I wanted to kick evrything...even coffee- haven't had it in a month....until today. I LOVE it and it makes feel good.

Is that a relapse?? Don't laugh b/c I/m serious when I ask that. I used to drink 3 triple latte's a day (9 shots) w/ 90mg of adderall and 16 mgs of subs and 5 nicotine pathches on my back. And I couldn't ever scrub the sticky stuff off from the patches, so I had all these little squares all over my body. Great for a fitness "guru"!
Anyway, my point is, I want to be held accountable before I even take an ibuprophen....it's a slippery slope and I've used coffee to get my rocks off before...But man I feel great!

Kameron

I know exactly how you feel about wanting to stop everything being a fitness freak. When I finally decided to check into rehab the first time I decided to not only stop the RX pills, but I stopped drinking coffee, smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, everything I could quit. I figured if I was going to be miserable anyway I may as well get it over with all at once. And I haven't smoked now in about twelve years almost.

I played competitive racquetball in tournaments across the country for 25 years, even while being a drug addict. How stupid! I could have had a stroke doing that. No telling how good I would have been playing had I been clean. Anyway just hang in there.

You'll feel so much better without any of that garbage in your system. I still seldom even drink coffee today. I bought a can 1 1/2 years ago when I bought my home I live in now and just ran out at Christmas time. I drink a little when I am around melinda as she always has the coffee turned on.

For what it's worth I wouldn't consider drinking a cup of coffee a relapse. People like us have more serious problems than that. It's good you want to stop but I would go OCD over it. Never knew anyone that was arrested for being under the influence of coffee. Have a great day. God bless.

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by hopeful32

Man, I'm on here a lot...but it's like going to a meeting for me...so I ain't going anywhere! I'm about to go try and run a1/2 mile again. hehe...Melinda- you've inspired me

I had the best morning though- Went sailing (the term I use for garage- saling) w/ my son and had a great time with him. I only thought about how bad I still feel about 50 or 60 times all morning, which is less than it's been in three weeks.

I know how I've stated before that I wanted to kick evrything...even coffee- haven't had it in a month....until today. I LOVE it and it makes feel good.

Is that a relapse?? Don't laugh b/c I/m serious when I ask that. I used to drink 3 triple latte's a day (9 shots) w/ 90mg of adderall and 16 mgs of subs and 5 nicotine pathches on my back. And I couldn't ever scrub the sticky stuff off from the patches, so I had all these little squares all over my body. Great for a fitness "guru"!
Anyway, my point is, I want to be held accountable before I even take an ibuprophen....it's a slippery slope and I've used coffee to get my rocks off before...But man I feel great!

Kameron

Hi Kameron
This place is my Na meetings also...it's here 24 hr a day and I don't have to go anywhere...LOL...
I was just wondering how did your run go...
and I think you will be fine with the coffee.
I'm sure Robert would still have that coffee,but I drank it all...

I draw he line on my coffee...no way I'm ever going to give that up...
How did the smoking go could you quit OK with the patch ???

Hope you had a good day.
Melinda

[dezz1801]

Originally Posted by xxhelzxx

well I stayed at 1mg a little longer then the calender says. I started .75 yesterday. I feel ok today just a little low on energy. Im going to stick to it from now on and should be done by the 20th

Helz my dear...

I just wanted to tell you I'm so PROUD OF YOU. You're doing great!!!! FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE

[hopeful32]

Hi Robert-

OCD is right on and not what I want with ANY part of my recovery, At the moment I'm now enjoying my second cup of coffee in a month- sans guilt

Saw your pics and I gotta tell you- After all of the SH** you put in your system for as long as you did, I thought you'd look beat to hell...what a pleasant surprise!! You and Melinda are both so beautiful- inside and out.

Grateful for you-

K

[hopeful32]

[QUOTE=melinda7.5;235135]Hi Kameron
This place is my Na meetings also...it's here 24 hr a day and I don't have to go anywhere...LOL...
I was just wondering how did your run go...
and I think you will be fine with the coffee.
I'm sure Robert would still have that coffee,but I drank it all...

I draw he line on my coffee...no way I'm ever going to give that up...
How did the smoking go could you quit OK with the patch ???

Hope you had a good day.




Good morning beautiful Melinda! Just kickin it with my coffee
My Run was more of a brisk walk, but at least I moved. I cannot believe how tired I get from even a little movement. But, I'll get there- with everyone's support. Yes, I did kick nicotine about a year and a half ago- after smoking since I was 15 (off and on). I'm grateful to not have started that back up throughout this whole mess

It's so cool b/c even my six year old said yesterday how different I looked! and then he said that e had the best day with me ever It melted my heart to know how much he noticed this whole time.
God is good- No, GREAT!

Much love my friend-
Kameron

[hopeful32]

Helz- Where you been man? Haven't heard from you in a while...perhaps you're in the jungle again Miss you Man

Kameron

[xxhelzxx]

perhaps, haha. no ive been busy as all hell. this is my busiest month of the year at work so my ear has been duct tapes to the phone and ive been chained to the desk. Im not sleeping much and mornings totally suck, aches and upset stomach. Im very low on energy but im pushin through it. Its not as bad as when i was first on here. I was a mess then. I thank my lucky charms for this place. Its my NA as well. plus Ive found someone awesome whos going through it as well and it makes it alot easier to say the liest. I mean hell im on a very low does, .75, and its not THAT bad. Ive still been forcing myself to get on that oliptical machine and working out as much as i can take. Ive notinced that I cant go as long on the cardio as I use to. I get worn out fast but im forcing myself to do it. I even put on a little fire breathing show for my boys and their friends last night. im sure puting fuel in my moth doesnt help my stomach, lol. but its uber fun and the boys love it. Fire makes the soul smile .

[dezz1801]

Helz

Don't BS...you know you sit around and estalk on yahoo all day. Buahahaha.

Keep your head up...IT WILL GET BETTER.

[hopeful32]

Originally Posted by nelly005

I was on Methadone and Norco for cervical pain, norco for 2+ years and methadone for 8 months, I found out months later methadone was addictive. I got off norco, slow taper, first and then a week of slow taper with methadone...three weeks in all of tapering....but it worked. The first few days I thought about norco 30+ times per day....desperation!!! Today maybe 5 times...but not desperation, just a longing for it. Hopefully soon just a bad memory! But the lesson will be there for the rest of my life!!
I'm so very glad to have found this group of people I felt very alone for a while.
Take care!!!!!
Nelly

Hey Nelly-
Wanted to see how you're doin' and how your weekend's been. Hope all is well and know you're in my thoughts

[hopeful32]

What the helz? Ha- that was funny. Fire breathing huh?? You get more and more mischievous by the day!! I dig it! I should start calling you the Dragon.

Hope you're feeling a little relief and know you're in my thoughts and prayers...

Peace
K

[clarice11]

I am new to this thread and can relate to many of the situations posted. I am currently going back and forth between methadone and subz.
I started taking 'done in '99 and was on it for 4-5 years. I had my own doctor. Then I was thrown in jail and forgot to mention had a pretty heavy benzo habit at the time too. So, went thru excrutiating withdrawal. The COs in the prison realized I was coming off something heavy because of my withdrawal symptoms so they put me back on 3 mg of xanax to reduce the withdrawal. I currently live in a very conservative state: Pennsylvania and back then had just moved back here. I was in jail for 11 mos and then sent to rehab. I went and got clean for the 1st time in my life. Afterwards I was mandated to a recovery house in York, PA for 1 year and did my time with flying colors. Afterwards, moved to Philly in '04 and eventually relapsed because I stopped the meetings and isolated myself (we addicts are infamous for that). This went on for 2 years and I eventually got on the subz, 3/8mg a day. They were great although the 1st few days were hell and I couldn't get out of bed. Eventually however I adjusted and felt GREAT.
Currently tho I am in a lot of pain because need a hip replacement which is really unusual for someone my age. And the subz weren't doin' it 4 me tho after 4 1/2 years still on 27 mg a day. So my pain doc put me on 'done and I am now so depressed and lethargic, don't want to do ******** except lie in bed and watch TV with glazed eyes. I worked my way down to 30 mg because I think the subs are much better 4 my well-being. However, the methadone does help with the pain. I have never heard of waiting 72 hours to switch over. I have heard if u r down to 30mg of meth to skip the next day's dose and the day after start the subs. 72 hrs seems very extreme.

[Robert_325]

I GUARANTEE that if you skip 24 hours off the dones and then do the induction with suboxone you'll go into the worst w/d of your life. That is a promise! I've been doing this a long time. NO WAY you do that after 24 hours unless you want to feel like road kill. I suppose it's possible that you could be the exception out of millions of people and it would work for you but I SERIOUSLY doubt it.

Who told you to take almost 30mg of suboxone a day for four plus years?? I am SOOOOO tired of the ignorant drs who do this. Did your dr give you those instructions or did you decide for yourself you needed that amount? I'm not trying to judge you I just need to know for myself who made that call so I know what I'm getting into here if you want help with this. You may not want my help with anything and that's okay too. But if you're now at 30mg of methadone and want to make the switch it's a good time to do it.

I want to say one thing here and I mean this with all due respect. You need to decide which program you're going to participate in and stay there. You can't be jumping back and forth between suboxone and methadone. That's crazy! It could be that you need the dones for pain management. Let me know if you need or want any additional help. God bless.

[hopeful32]

Clarice

You're centainly not alone here...and are in great company for support, wisdom and a LOT of great advice from recovering addicts who've made it through to the other side....Your in my thoughts and prayers- and one more thing: LISTEN TO ROBERT

Blessings-
Kameron

[hopeful32]

Helz

What kind of fuel did you put in your mouth anyway??? Is this an experts only trick or could I impress some of my neighbors? LOL

K

[hopeful32]

Robert

How long should anyone wait before switching from dones to subs to avoid w/d's and why does it matter...just curious-

Kameron

[Robert_325]

Kameron

Helz

What kind of fuel did you put in your mouth anyway??? Is this an experts only trick or could I impress some of my neighbors? LOL

Kameron
____________
Robert

How long should anyone wait before switching from dones to subs to avoid w/d's and why does it matter...just curious-

Kameron



Kami ... first I would recommend you get a little more clean time before you start blowing fire at your neighbors. Just a thought! Would hate to see anyone catch on fire, especially YOU!


The deal with the methadone switch to subs is that methadone has a VERY long half life. It lingers around forever. It can be a couple days before a person even goes into w/d when they stop methadone. So if you start on subs too soon the methadone hasn't even had time to start its w/d symptoms from hitting yet. This is when precipitated w/d happens.

It's really serious when a person switches from methadone to suboxone. It's probably the most difficult drug to switch from. It can be done without danger of precipitated w/d, you just have to allow time for the w/d symptoms. That's why I always tell people to use the COWS worksheet and be sure they score a 26. That won't happen in one day I promise, at least I've never seen it happen in one day. Hope that helps. God bless.

[xxhelzxx]

YEA, i cant emphasize enough, "EXPERT ONLY". Ive been doing it for years and was tought by someone who had done it for years. I dont recommend trying to impress your neighbors or youll end up on youtube with your face on fire running down the street, . By fuel I mean fuel, I cant go giving out my secrets now. I just have this hunger to do stuff that make most people say "that dude is F'n crazy", lol, I even go so far as to run with scissors and play lawn darts at night .

ok anywho, I feel a little better today, still feel drained but its not getting worse which is good. I still feel sick in the mornigs(aches, stomach, no energy). I started .5 today. closer every day.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by xxhelzxx

YEA, i cant emphasize enough, "EXPERT ONLY". Ive been doing it for years and was tought by someone who had done it for years. I dont recommend trying to impress your neighbors or youll end up on youtube with your face on fire running down the street, . By fuel I mean fuel, I cant go giving out my secrets now. I just have this hunger to do stuff that make most people say "that dude is F'n crazy", lol, I even go so far as to run with scissors and play lawn darts at night .

ok anywho, I feel a little better today, still feel drained but its not getting worse which is good. I still feel sick in the mornigs(aches, stomach, no energy). I started .5 today. closer every day.

That dude is F'n crazy! I'll buy into that one!

So you're hanging in there helz. I'm glad to see that, haven't talked to you in a while. So are you still doing each different dose on the taper every four days or are you going a week? Seems I've kind of lost track of you the last couple weeks or so. Let me know if I can help buddy. God bless.

[hopeful32]

Helz
Okay, Okay...NO fire breathing- GAW! I'll just stick with magically pulling a nichel from my son's ear... If I'm feeling really crazy, I'll use a quarter- lol.
I've always been too much of a risk taker- like the majority of the people on this site I'm sure. If someone says not to do something...guess what-

I AM here to change the "my way" attitude, and I trust you and Robert. But...I'd dig seeing your fire show someday for myself- don't worrry, it'll be BYOF- Ha

Serioisly though I'm SOOOO glad you're feeling a little better...You're in my prayers every night and throughout the day...I think God knows who I mean by "helz" You're soooo close, and let me tell you- the other side is more amazing than I ever remember...and that's only after three weeks. I'm sure it doesn't help that it's your busiest season for work- but your strength is your asset....and I'm not talking about your "18 yr old body strength"..

Did Deep and you'll find it-
K

[xxhelzxx]

yea im sticking to your every 4 days taper. I just got hung on the 1mg a litle longer then i wanted to. I started .75 on thursday and I started .5 today. Im uber busy at work so it passes the time. I really dont have time to think about feeling bad untill i get home then it hits me and its sooo hard to get up in the morning. but i try to stay busy at home as well hence the fire breathing.

[hopeful32]

Robert-

Thanks for taking the time to explain how the dones and subs work...man I feel blessed to be where I am right now. It's like everything reminds me of how grateful I should be. Slept for 6 hrs last night- so not bad considering, and have worked out the past three days. It's truly the only time when I feel like my old self...shopping helps too But, I've had issues with shopping before, so I'm staying away from stores...sounds pretty sad hugh?

Before my current postion, I was a personal shopper and did some modeling (worst industry ever) got completely obsesssed with clothing and image, etc....it's another deamon that I've been fighting for years..I'm trying to peel back the layers one at a time...some of them are very very heavy. I have a degree in psychology, and about six years ago, applied to Dallas Theological Seminary for Biblical Counseling- But then baby and divorce...and life happened. My point is that I know how screwed up I've become and that I also have the ability to peel those layers back and get to the core of who God intended me to be...tatoos and all

You Rock Robert and tell your precious wife hello-
Kameron

[nelly005]

I can vouch for methadone lasting a long while in the system, on my last 3 days of tapering I was taking a total of 10mg a day (took it in thirds) I think it took two to three days to start the full W/d symptoms. All done now with the w/d "flu" I thinks it's worse than swine flu!! Even my laziness is going away....yea!! I have gotten used to a hot bath and sleepytime tea before bed so I'll keep that up for a while. It sounds like everyone is doing well these days, but I'll still be here reading and commenting since this is also my NA.

Nelly