[magsj]

Nelly and Hopefull-

I recently was watching a comedy...(the sho w"Head Case") with my husband the other night and, for the first time in who knows how long, was actually gut-laughing, you know, the kind where your slapping your thigh, etc....... and I suddently realized I was truly laughing and really feeling it (tapering off of suboxone, but have much more clairty/emotions/etc. than when I was taking methadone and norco!). I said something to my husband about it later that night and he agreed that he hadn't heard my "real" laugh in a LONG time.. Anyway, it was a sweet moment. I'm definitely searching out comedies these days. On the flip side, I also watched a rather sad movie recently and was crying through the whole dam movie! I remember when on the methadone I just zoned....nothing affected me. I am learning to just let myself cry, too many years spent trying to keep it all inside.

Helz-okay, the JUNGLE? You can't leave us with JUST THAT!

Take care all,

mags

[xxhelzxx]

HA, ok. I own a logistics company and produce season is coming up, so my main customer is a watermelon grower, well he has 800 acres about 50 miles east of where my office is and asked if I would go camp at a place on his land that was heavily wooded that overlooked the whole thing. someone had been coming onto his land and stealing farm equipment on the weekends so I set up camp in the wooded area, had to be stealthy about it, red lights only and no fires and we all had Ar's and plenty of ammo, didnt need it but what the hell. We set up these things called critter cams all over the place, they are motion triggered cams. we also setup trip wires that trigger very loud sirens before we left. but we sat out there for two nights waiting and they didnt show this weekend, but when they do they will get cought on cam or trip the sirens which will send em running past a cam and get cought that way. it was hot and damp and the gnats and mesquitoes sucked. thats why it felt like the jungle. and it was alot of work, but Im a gun nutt so it was alot of fun for me. So there ya go, that was my weekend.

[hopeful32]

Originally Posted by xxhelzxx

HA, ok. I own a logistics company and produce season is coming up, so my main customer is a watermelon grower, well he has 800 acres about 50 miles east of where my office is and asked if I would go camp at a place on his land that was heavily wooded that overlooked the whole thing. someone had been coming onto his land and stealing farm equipment on the weekends so I set up camp in the wooded area, had to be stealthy about it, red lights only and no fires and we all had Ar's and plenty of ammo, didnt need it but what the hell. We set up these things called critter cams all over the place, they are motion triggered cams. we also setup trip wires that trigger very loud sirens before we left. but we sat out there for two nights waiting and they didnt show this weekend, but when they do they will get cought on cam or trip the sirens which will send em running past a cam and get cought that way. it was hot and damp and the gnats and mesquitoes sucked. thats why it felt like the jungle. and it was alot of work, but Im a gun nutt so it was alot of fun for me. So there ya go, that was my weekend.

Ha- first smile on my face all day you sound like my six year old son! actually i think that sounds like a great excursion...and distraction. Was it in TX? My parents have a few hundred acres outside of austin and we've camped out there many times...tents and all...glad you're back tho!

[xxhelzxx]

im an 12 y/o in a 35 y/o's body, no wait, im an 12 y/o in a 35 y/o's body that looks like an 18 y/o's body, yea thats it,, lol. yes it was in TX, Athens TX to be exact.

[hopeful32]

Originally Posted by magsj

Nelly and Hopefull-

I recently was watching a comedy...(the sho w"Head Case") with my husband the other night and, for the first time in who knows how long, was actually gut-laughing, you know, the kind where your slapping your thigh, etc....... and I suddently realized I was truly laughing and really feeling it (tapering off of suboxone, but have much more clairty/emotions/etc. than when I was taking methadone and norco!). I said something to my husband about it later that night and he agreed that he hadn't heard my "real" laugh in a LONG time.. Anyway, it was a sweet moment. I'm definitely searching out comedies these days. On the flip side, I also watched a rather sad movie recently and was crying through the whole dam movie! I remember when on the methadone I just zoned....nothing affected me. I am learning to just let myself cry, too many years spent trying to keep it all inside.

Helz-okay, the JUNGLE? You can't leave us with JUST THAT!

Take care all,

mags

Know what you mean about the emotions!...and music!! which was such a huge part of my life before pills and then, like you..i was just numb- comfortably or so i thought now i listen w/ my groove on- not really today though.

I think I AM the head case at the moment...Thank God for family and friends...and definitely all of you

[xxhelzxx]

i wanted to update. I made it to day 3 on .75mg's of sub and started feeling really bad so I took a .25 sliver and it brought me back to life so I started over at 1mg the next day and feel fine now. I am still taking .5 in the morning and .5 at night. (today will make the 6th day on 1mg) Im going to drop back down to .75 friday and if I start to feel bad I will push through it this time, maybe stay on .75 for a day or so longer so i adjust a little better. what do you think Robert? sorry i didnt get on here and post when I started feeling bad and took the sliver without ya. Im a bit thick headed sometimes and always try to do things on my own. Im not use to getting or asking for help with anything so bare with me and dont hesitate to lay some stern criticism on me. I still tell myself im doing good, I just set myself back a few days.

[Robert_325]

helz ... I just want to point out that self-medicating is what landed most of us here in trouble. I'm hard headed too. That's a trait of lots of us. You need to stick to your plan and maybe be a little tougher on yourself sometimes I think.

You're talking about .25mg slivers, .5mg slivers, .5mg doses and .75mg doses, 1mg doses. We've got to be consistent on a daily basis with this. It's almost impossible to taper down/get off when we jump around.

It's difficult to make good decisions about our own using. Just some food for thought. God bless.

[xxhelzxx]

my brain is hungry, thanks for the food. so being that Ive been on 1mg for more then 4 days and I took .5 this morning Ill just take .25 tonight to make for a .75 day and go to .5 on sunday then .25 next thursday. then skip the following monday and so on. If I start to feel bad Ill just push through it. I got paranoid when it happened because I remember what it was like and how bad it was and I freaked. so Ill be more hard on myself, I said hard on. lol Ill just tell myself its better then having the flying red asses baboon flu and push myself along. Ive been working out like a mad man lately too. I have an elliptical machine, a boflex, and free weights and have been wearing them out. that helps alot. Ill get back on schedule TODAY.

[Robert_325]

Sounds good man! Just keep plugging. You've got a good attitude, you'll get back on track and do fine.

Don't push yourself until you're really sick, but don't be easy on yourself either. It's difficult for me at the very low doses as the amount you're taking is so small and I don't actually know how you feel. I've got to depend on you more than you on me at this point.

Hang in there buddy. Won't be long and you'll be done with this. God bless.

[xxhelzxx]

yea I guess I should say more then "I start feeling bad". Morning is the worst. I ache and my stomach is jittery feeling, then I am cold all day, my hands and feet, but they still sweat making me colder, my back starts to hurt, muscles not spine, and I lose ALL energy. thats what I mean by "I feel bad". a mild version of the full blone w/d symptoms I've had in the past which is why I panic even when its mild. Ill post if it comes back, as soon as it comes back. thanks again for being you.

[nelly005]

Helz...
Try if you can to change your morning schedule. Put some great music on (iPod with earphones if everyone else is asleep) Take a long hot shower...but make a morning change of any kind!! I'm sure your first thought every morning is water and pills...we've all been there (still there)
At my house I'm the first to rise and all I want to do is take meds to feel normal! Since I'm now over two weeks without any opiate, it is getting a little easier to start new mornings without wanting to cry or die!! I did start that Thomas Recipe and I don't know if just the act of taking something, but its helping. My Dr. had told me I would be suprised at how many people are on pain killers, she asked for a copy of recipe and I told her to please give copy to all of them when they decide to quit opiates! As I'm sure most of those people have tried to get off of them, but like me don't want to get hooked on something else.
In my two years of pain killers I mentioned...cryed... many times "I didn't want to take narcotics anymore!!" But was told it was the only thing to help my body pain. That's why I finally fired the pain Dr. and made my regular Dr. help me wean off. Now I'm only on Celebrex and Pristiq (4 depression), OTCs and vitamins.

[hopeful32]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

helz ... I just want to point out that self-medicating is what landed most of us here in trouble. I'm hard headed too. That's a trait of lots of us. You need to stick to your plan and maybe be a little tougher on yourself sometimes I think.

You're talking about .25mg slivers, .5mg slivers, .5mg doses and .75mg doses, 1mg doses. We've got to be consistent on a daily basis with this. It's almost impossible to taper down/get off when we jump around.

It's difficult to make good decisions about our own using. Just some food for thought. God bless.

Hi Robert- I've heard several different theories on the diff. between methadone and suboxone withdrawals...any thoughts on which is worse or does it depend purley on the individual?? I have a buddy who is looking into both treatment options, and watching me these past few weeks hasn't exactly sold him on suboxone. I told him not to do either one...but I'm no expert obviously.

Blessings:
Kameron

[hopeful32]

Originally Posted by xxhelzxx

yea I guess I should say more then "I start feeling bad". Morning is the worst. I ache and my stomach is jittery feeling, then I am cold all day, my hands and feet, but they still sweat making me colder, my back starts to hurt, muscles not spine, and I lose ALL energy. thats what I mean by "I feel bad". a mild version of the full blone w/d symptoms I've had in the past which is why I panic even when its mild. Ill post if it comes back, as soon as it comes back. thanks again for being you.

Helz-
Man I KNOW exactly what you're talking about with the panicky feelings followed by the immediate need to take something. After I threw out all of my meds...I panicked and went thru every drawer and bag and peice of clothng I owned...like a total wild woman on the look for any sight of an orange crumb...and then something inside me just told me to give it up and surrender to what I was feeling.
I think we become so fixated on feeling those old w/d's that it propells us into acting irrationally or not commiting to our plan. You DO have that choice and you're stronger than any w/d symptom...These are the times to be hard on ourselves...HA! I said it too--

Stay strong my friend
Kameron

[hopeful32]

Originally Posted by nelly005

Helz...
Try if you can to change your morning schedule. Put some great music on (iPod with earphones if everyone else is asleep) Take a long hot shower...but make a morning change of any kind!! I'm sure your first thought every morning is water and pills...we've all been there (still there)
At my house I'm the first to rise and all I want to do is take meds to feel normal! Since I'm now over two weeks without any opiate, it is getting a little easier to start new mornings without wanting to cry or die!! I did start that Thomas Recipe and I don't know if just the act of taking something, but its helping. My Dr. had told me I would be suprised at how many people are on pain killers, she asked for a copy of recipe and I told her to please give copy to all of them when they decide to quit opiates! As I'm sure most of those people have tried to get off of them, but like me don't want to get hooked on something else.
In my two years of pain killers I mentioned...cryed... many times "I didn't want to take narcotics anymore!!" But was told it was the only thing to help my body pain. That's why I finally fired the pain Dr. and made my regular Dr. help me wean off. Now I'm only on Celebrex and Pristiq (4 depression), OTCs and vitamins.

Nelly-I like it! changing behavioral patterens is totally under-rated and can truly trick you into distraction....maybe not so much at first, but eventually it happens.

K

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by hopeful32

Hi Robert- I've heard several different theories on the diff. between methadone and suboxone withdrawals...any thoughts on which is worse or does it depend purley on the individual?? I have a buddy who is looking into both treatment options, and watching me these past few weeks hasn't exactly sold him on suboxone. I told him not to do either one...but I'm no expert obviously.

Blessings:
Kameron

I always suggest a cold turkey with the Thomas Recipe first. Then if that doesn't work I go with the subs. Methadone shouldn't be used unless it's a LAST resort.

The thing about what you see on the forum with subs is that most of the people show up here after their drs have RXd too much for too long ... as in 16mg or more and often they show up here on them for two years or longer. They are NOT people who use the subs from day one like I suggest on the sub therapy link in Featured Drugs at the top.

I've NEVER had anyone who followed my instructions exactly as I say who had any problems with suboxone. NO ONE. But I get everyone who has had problems elsewhere then they come here for help. That's okay but you can't judge suboxone based on a bunch of people who've done it the wrong way and I'm now trying to get them off. Make sense?

Methadone and subs are both a drag if you use them for months and months or longer and then abruptly stop. W/D can last a month easily. But if you do the subs from day one like I ask people to do it they WON'T have ANY significant w/d symptoms I promise. I've done this with too many people. God bless.

[hopeful32]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

I always suggest a cold turkey with the Thomas Recipe first. Then if that doesn't work I go with the subs. Methadone shouldn't be used unless it's a LAST resort.

The thing about what you see on the forum with subs is that most of the people show up here after their drs have RXd too much for too long ... as in 16mg or more and often they show up here on them for two years or longer. They are NOT people who use the subs from day one like I suggest on the sub therapy link in Featured Drugs at the top.

I've NEVER had anyone who followed my instructions exactly as I say who had any problems with suboxone. NO ONE. But I get everyone who has had problems elsewhere then they come here for help. That's okay but you can't judge suboxone based on a bunch of people who've done it the wrong way and I'm now trying to get them off. Make sense?

Methadone and subs are both a drag if you use them for months and months or longer and then abruptly stop. W/D can last a month easily. But if you do the subs from day one like I ask people to do it they WON'T have ANY significant w/d symptoms I promise. I've done this with too many people. God bless.

Yes...makes total sense. Damn I wish I would have found you when I was trying to make MY decisions about getting on suboxone..but I had a doc that seemed he knew it all.....of course he told me that he had never had any kind of addicitve behavior himself throughout his entire life...red flag perhaps.

Now I see what you've been saying all along...in and of itself, suboxone can be a great tool...but people need to go into knowing all of this be BEFORE they get too far in and then decide to stop. BUT, No turning back now...I'm amazed tho that you were right when you said two weeks would not be sufficient...I've ended up getting an additional week an a half off work more than what I originally intended. You DO know your stuff my friend

In Him-

K

[hopeful32]

Originally Posted by xxhelzxx

yea I guess I should say more then "I start feeling bad". Morning is the worst. I ache and my stomach is jittery feeling, then I am cold all day, my hands and feet, but they still sweat making me colder, my back starts to hurt, muscles not spine, and I lose ALL energy. thats what I mean by "I feel bad". a mild version of the full blone w/d symptoms I've had in the past which is why I panic even when its mild. Ill post if it comes back, as soon as it comes back. thanks again for being you.

Helz- This is a link to an interesting and inspiring article that my fiance (a naturo-pathic exercise physiologist and organic nutrition activist) says, in his opinion, is right on.
You have to sustitute the word methadone for subs in the article, but I think the guy's a genius. Many may disagree with me on his theory of tapering, but I can honestly say that I think he's totally on. The last time I quit subs cold turkey (stopped 4mgs instantly) and landed in the ER with diladid in my arm b/c the docs think in shocked my system into viral meneingits Don't know if I agree with that bringing on the meningitis, but I do know that when I got out of the hospital ten days later, I threw away EVERY pill they stocked me with- That was the hardest time ever- It was BAD...and then about 3 days in I found a tiny peice of suboxone...it was as small as a poppy seed, not even a bread crumb. And, of course I took it. BIG MISTAKE! I felt great fo 24 hours and then had another three weeks of total misery. For me, I don't think it matters how much I take- it comes bites back no matter what.

Anyway, thought it might interest you- http://www.dpeg.org/treatment/methadone_withdrawal.htm

K

[LongKissGoodNite]

Robert,

New here and long time big time oxycontin user, considering going suboxone route may 11 need someone to talk to. W/D symptom is my primary concern as I have a fulltime job. I think Sub route is a good idea because before finding my DOC opium not a day sober since 15 years old and probably need a few weeks of not using illicit substance .. I see the importance of not snorting the subs I need to get that MO out of my daily routine.

The opiates were, like subs i hear, a double edge. They kept me from drinking, crystal, coke, and weed (sounds benign but owing to mental disorder weed makes my life UNMANAGEABLE)

But now its time to stop, my financial life is a WASTE LAND. OC80s are so expensive in more ways than one, if you knew what ive been spending your eyes might pop out of your head.

Anyway I cant seem to PM you how do I ask you questions? I see you are the guy to ask.

[hopeful32]

LKGN-
I think you're in a GREAT position here IF you listen to Robert, which I am woman enough to say I did NOT...and am still paying the price for, as I quit subs cold turkey after way too long of eating 'em like candy. You may want to scroll up an read what Robert says about using subs for a very specific time right after getting off your DOC...things the drs. don't tell us. As I've said and thought many times, I wish I would have found these amazing and caring individuals before I tried to do it on my own...Always been a rebel though
It's a miracle you found this forum, as the members here are some of the most solid human beings you'll ever come across. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers, but you can do it...

[hopeful32]

Also- truly helps me to check in frequently even if I don't write anything...Experience, Strength and Hope...gotta have it!

K

[hopeful32]

Helz...did you taper to today like your calendar states? You may have revises it since then, but just wondering how you were feeling?

k

[hopeful32]

Originally Posted by xxhelzxx

well tomorrow I start tapering so I made myself a calender to go by. look at it and tell me if you think its correct Robert.

Wow! That's f'n awesome! I may use it to balance my check-book

[xxhelzxx]

well I stayed at 1mg a little longer then the calender says. I started .75 yesterday. I feel ok today just a little low on energy. Im going to stick to it from now on and should be done by the 20th

[hopeful32]

Originally Posted by xxhelzxx

well I stayed at 1mg a little longer then the calender says. I started .75 yesterday. I feel ok today just a little low on energy. Im going to stick to it from now on and should be done by the 20th

Point is- you're making progress. Nice work

[hopeful32]

quick update-
I FINALLY slept after four nites w/o sleep...only for 6 hours, but I feel soooo much better. I tried sleepytime, hot showers, meditation, valarian root, and melatonin- NOTHING HeLPED! Then I tried Kava Kava and it seemed to do the trick. It's amazing what sleep deprivation can do to your emotions and state of mind. I'm so blessed to have been given additional time off work- takes a lot of stress of my healing, and then I can hit the ground running when I return...or at least a swift stride. MAN! What a journey this has been...
You're right Helz, not everyone can say they've killed a killer.

Kameron

[Robert_325]

Kameron ... I remember that when I detoxed off oxy I went the better part of three months without sleep. I'm serious! I was taking thirty 30mg roxies a day by prescription plus 30-40 lorcets on top of that along with 15-20mg xanax, 6-8mg klonopin and 20 plus soma a day. I was an idiot. Had been abusing the drugs since the late 1960s. Smart huh???

I'm serious I didn't sleep for months. Then one morning I woke up and I had slept like 4-5 hours straight. The lack of sleep won't kill us unlike the pills. No sleep is a small price to pay to be rid of all the garbage from our bodies. Hang in there ... God bless.

[tired2]

Hi Helz
Glad you are doing well I like your calender not there yet ...Robert has gotten me from a bad induction at 16 mg down to 4.5 . I can't wait to put all this behind me .I started sub back in mid May .I do not want to stay on these long. I even got back on my elliptical for 15 min. wow talk about sweating ..now I need to get my butt back to the gym

Most off my life has been taking something just never shot up....later in life it was for pain due to several surgeries. Mostly after back surgery and knees. Well I was put on every pain pill up to morphine ,thank's to PM doctor who got me hooked ... I went to detox it wasn't for me . I left after a week ,I got tired of standing up and telling everyone my name and I'm a drug addict and alcholic (I don't drink) great for myself esteme . What they don't tell you is you still get w/d which I had gotten diahrrea before I left on day 6 it was horriable .I had them and chills ,sweats etc after I got home. So I went back to PM doctor in a panic to get pills but he would only give me Vic's 7.5 two every 4-6 hours .That was over a year and half ago .Oh and the shrink for klonopin

My last visit to the PM doctor he did a drug test and lied...I only found out b/c I asked for my records ...so much for honesty .Well it opened my eyes to do something . I made up my mind I'm done this has to STOP. My shrink can perscribe Subs so that's what I went on...only wish I had found this site first I would not have had p/w or gotten sick later due to the Naloxone .

So I took my husband and marched myself into the doctor and got him to give me the Subutex .All thank's to Robert I never would have known that was my problem.

I like the part off altering morning schedule is a great idea ...trick the brain. I have stopped other drugs and the minute I would wake thats the first thing I would thing off..

Well sorry for rambling on and on

Good luck your doing great.

[nelly005]

I cancelled my appt. today with new Dr. that thought I should start on Suboxone. I told him I have been off all opiates for over two weeks, I'm sleeping 6-7 hours a night and no other w/d symptoms but a little lethergy. He said that neurochemically, after long exposure to opiates, many patients do need neurochemical treatment. Does that make sense or does he just need new patients??

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by nelly005

I cancelled my appt. today with new Dr. that thought I should start on Suboxone. I told him I have been off all opiates for over two weeks, I'm sleeping 6-7 hours a night and no other w/d symptoms but a little lethergy. He said that neurochemically, after long exposure to opiates, many patients do need neurochemical treatment. Does that make sense or does he just need new patients??

YOU are the one making sense here. That upsets me when a dr tells someone doing well on a cold turkey to start using subs two weeks into this. I am a sub advocate but NOT when a person is being successful without it.

You're sleeping, you've got two weeks clean. Why in the world would you want to pick up subs now? I think the advice you received sucked. Some people might need a little time for the brain to heal as you described but not everyone and it certainly doesn't appear you're one of those people. Good luck and God bless.

[hopeful32]

Originally Posted by nelly005

I cancelled my appt. today with new Dr. that thought I should start on Suboxone. I told him I have been off all opiates for over two weeks, I'm sleeping 6-7 hours a night and no other w/d symptoms but a little lethergy. He said that neurochemically, after long exposure to opiates, many patients do need neurochemical treatment. Does that make sense or does he just need new patients??

Nelly!! That's great news my friend There are thousands of people who wish they would have ridden-out their original detox (me being one of them) instead of getting on subs or methadone, especially with such a great sleep pattern and a little time behind you. You're doing well...no- you're doing great!!

Kameron