[kindwon]

I have read a lot of the threads here and I am only starting a new thread because I need an answer quickly. I foolishly thought I was ready to come off of suboxone at 3 mgs a day. With that said I'll start from the beginning.
I've had 4 back surgeries and my wrist fused. I was given fentanyl 100mcg after my 2nd back surgery after the surgeon botched the procedure. I was taking 20 percs or tabs and while wearing a 50 or 75 patch before going for opiate therapy. I was booted from 2 pain management drs. My sub Dr. started me off at 12 mgs (4 mgs 3 x a day). I have never been told to cut down my dose. I have prompted it myself. I was at 3 mgs a day after 9 months and felt it was a low enough dose that I could stop.("YA BIG DUMMY") I took 3 mgs of xanax for 4 days. It helped for the first 2 days but the next 2 my w/ds would over take any effect it should of had.I stopped the xanax cause I don't want a problem with that. I would feel worse as the days went on. So after 10 days of no sleep and popping 10 amoidium a-ds a day. I took 2 10mg percs yesterday and 2 today.
My ultimate question is should I go to my sub Dr. tomorrow and ween off properly or will I start feeling better soon? I really am sick with myself about taking the percs but I was going to lose my mind if I didn't get some sleep. I would have gone to the sub Dr last week but he only is open mon-wed 11a-3p. On wed. afternoon I decided to tough it out.

Thanks,
A Dad of 2,husband, small business owner, and a junkie on the miracle drug

[kindwon]

Well I guess i'm going to the dr. this afternoon. I'll try starting at 2 mg and cut down 25% every 4 days. Wish I had a little input but I guess I'll see what the dr. says and check back here later.

[purpledog]

oh i think 3mg is a way too big amount to jump off.
definately go back and get some more, you are right in saying you need to drop only 25% of your dose at a time.
now you are taking pain pills again and thats not good ay.
im not exactly sure how long withdrawls from subs are, but methadone has a half life of round 24-36 hours, and you withdraw for a loooooooooong time.
and subs have a half life longer than that, so i would assume the withdrawls will be longer. but thats assuming.
sorry im no expert but i seen you asking for some feedback,
ive come down from 12mg to 2.5mg over 9 weeks.
and i plan to still drop 25% each time, till i get to tiny wee doses, then you start skipping days ive been told.
well a little info for you anyway.
you need to do it with as little hassle as possible, for your kids sake as well.
laters
purpledog

[bev49]

kindon did you say you've gone 10 days with absolutely nothing except yesterday with percs? I would think you could continue that way with nothing but you . But you have to put the percs away. That will only put you back twould have to stop the percs. Dropping off sub at 3 mgs. was certainly not a smart thing to do. It was way too high and sub is way too strong. In Europe they give it out at lower than 1 mg. and it works, which shows you how strong it is. If you chose to get of sub properly you would have to taper so much further, down to doses like .125. Tapering all the way is not my area of expertise. There are many people here (Intel?) who has done it successfully and can help. If you decide that continuing your c/t is not an option, ask for help tapering suboxone the right way. If you keep on trying to stay clean, look up the Thomas Recipe for withdrawals. It helps.

[intelmetal]

kindwon, You should go back to the doctor and get some more subs. Do NOT take anymore percs ! You must go back into moderate withdrawal and do a proper induction back to subs. I would bet you could induct at lower than 3mgs since you have gone so long. When you score a 26 on the COWS worksheet, you are ready. I would start by taking 1mg of sub and wait an hour, if you still feel bad ( be honest with yourself ) take another 1mg. This should get you out of withdrawals. Stay at 2mg split dose, 1mg a.m./1mg p.m. Try not to take your second dose after 4:00 p.m. if possible, as it will affect your ability to sleep. Get back with us as soon as you are at a 26 or higher. You can straighten this out and do a proper taper, no problem !
If you decide to ride it out ( which I don't suggest ), stop the other opiates and get the ingredients for the Thomas Recipe. Let us know which route you choose. Good Luck !
Steve

[kindwon]

Well, I may be in the twillight zone. I went to the dr. office today and no one was there. He decided to take Monday's off. So now it is open tues. and wed. 11-3. I haven't taken anymore opiates and feel like complete poop. Had to work. Don't know how I did. I thank you for your insight. I will go back on subs with the routine intel has suggested. If I have enough strength I will slap the doctor.I hope the furnace I installed doesn't explode.
thanks again,
k

[intelmetal]

kindwon, post here when you get your meds tomorrow. It is a good thing that you feel like poop, just means that you will probably be ready to induct after you pick up your subs. Let us know how you feel tomorrow.
Later.
Steve

[kindwon]

Seein' i did sleep the last 2 nights I'll be fine. There is light at the end of the tunnel. I'll post tomorrow.

[kindwon]

Back on subs. The Dr. started me at 2mg but I tried 1 mg. Held off and then took another 1/2 mg. So I'm gonna stay at 1.5 mg split dose if it goes well. I hadn't done my research before stopping and didn't consider my dose substantial. After finding this site and seeing the hell people have gone through I see my stupidity. Thank You everyone for the caring and insight. This was the only time I had messed up my treatment. I only did it because of the long wait between visits and the horror of no sleep for 5 days ( i think felt like a month). Gotta go play with my kids they missed me.
Thanks again,
k

[intelmetal]

Good job kindwon, So you are at 1.5mgs total for the day ? If so, that is awesome. Stay at that dose for 4 days. If you are stable at this point, I would drop to 1.25mgs for 4 more days, then 1mg for 4 days. Keep us posted as you go, so that we can make some suggestions. It looks like you have your stuff together and that is a good thing.
Steve

[kindwon]

Still stayin' at 1.5 mgs and everything is good besides a headache that i'm taking tylenol for. I'm gonna try to cut to 1.25 on saturday.
My Dr. decided to cut his 3 day week to 2 days because he's only allowed to treat so many people and it works better for him. It was just bad timing for me. He want's me to give him some printouts of threads here to help people soften their w/d off of subs. He is a good guy and now I'll take back the slappin' comment. I feel bad. I didn't tell him I stopped or that I lapsed for 2 days to get through until I could see him. I had no desire to take them besides to get some sleep. Psychosis was runnin' rampant. I have a feeling he would understand but I don't know if the protocol would require him to have me tested and re-inducted. I knew I was going back to finish what I had started. With the help of you guys(intel, mainly...no offense) and the wealth of knowledge on this forum I will do it correctly. Putting all the surgeries, prescriptions,lying,and selfishness behind me.
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[intelmetal]

kindwon, I am very happy that you decided to drop to 1.25mgs instead of 1mg. I know it is a pain in the butt to cut it up to those odd doses, but it is worth it, trust me on that. I was aggressive at first, which worked well for a few weeks, then I got stuck at 2mgs and 1.5mgs. Once I stabilized, I dropped to 1.25mgs for 4 days, then to 1mg for 4 days. It was smooth sailing from then on. I will follow your progress. Keep up the good work !
Later.
Steve

[kindwon]

Yeah i was reading your thread as you were going through your tapering to see what to expect. I think I'm getting addicted again..... to this site. HA! I haven't done the math but I think I will have enough to get off without paying the Dr. again. If not ,it isn't a big deal. I am going to try to even the splits because I have been taking 1 mg in the am and .5 around 2 pm. Sat. will be my drop day to 1.25 mg. It'll probably be easier to take 1/4 + 1/16 in the morning and repeat for pm dose. I'm going to invent a miter saw for suboxones with a jeweler loop on it. BTW Are you in construction? I thought I read that. I'm a plumber and hvac tech in buffalo. Thanks for your help. This has really helped guide me in the right direction. I have had the desire to quit for a long time. I had to get all my surgeries done with. If I did know the long half life of this drug I would have chosen the more rapid taper like you had done. I came off lortabs c/t in 1997 after surgery #1 no problem. After my second surgery, a fusion that went bad, I got off 100mcg fentanyl patches and 180 percs plus others Rx with methadone pills with a 3 week taper. Then before my 3rd (removing the rods and plates) and 4th (fusion thru my stomach) I stopped with valium for a week. Finally, I found out I had keinbock's disease in my wrist from a work injury and had to have that fused. After that healed I knew I had to stop. I had been getting subs on the street here and there but I knew I had to get real treatment. I worked for a place where 7 of us were hooked. I never went back after my surgeries. They still lie to themselves and struggle. They get subs for when they run out. I started working with my buddy of 24 years and we gotta a good little business goin. It was an employer where never enough work got done at my previous job. Now, we do crazy heating systems for good money. Everything is on the way up.

Thanks for the vent session.
k

I'll post saturday or sooner

[kindwon]

I've been feeling fine besides a dull headache so I think I wanna cut my dose down tomorrow. I'm kinda anxious to see what I feel like with a drop in dose. Tell me what you think.Another thing, I'm having trouble 1/4ing the 2mg-erz. Any technics? I user a flat razor like in a box cutter and that was crumbing them up.

[intelmetal]

kindwon, I say go for it ! It is a reasonably small drop and subs have a long half life, so you should be fine. When I used to get headaches during my taper, I would take an Aleve. It is an OTC medication and it works on sub headaches. Also, if you do not suffer from anxiety try a cup of coffee, the caffeine helped me.
By the way, I am a carpenter by trade, became a home builder and all.
Later.
Steve

[Bailey46]

Hi Kindwon,

I just wanted to stop by and say congrats on how far you've come!!

I've been reading or should I say devouring all the posts on here concerning suboxone/subutex. I hope to start within the next week and don't want to stay on it longer than 2 months....

There are so many conflicting stories, so I try and read only the successful ones!



Anyway, thank you for posting and helping out those who are just about to begin

[BlackKats]

The very best thing that you could have done is go back, and start the taper the right way. Good for you! I have been off subs for 18 days, after being on them for only 52 days. Do the 25% reduction every FOUR days, as instructed. Towards the end, I found it a lot easier to take a quarter of one 8mg pill, and crush it up. That way you can equally divide any kind of dose you want to. 1mg, .50 mg, .375mg, .250 mg, .175 mg, .125 mg, ect. I found that getting as close as you can to the proper dose is critical. This stuff is so dam powerful, that even the slightest mis-dose can screw things up. Anyway, thats my two cents. Good luck to you!

Gary

[kindwon]

The best i could do was a small 1/4 of a 2 mg and a bigger 1/4 for afternoon. My approximation would put that at about 1.25 mg. Of course today I feel alright.

[purpledog]

hey k just a bit of info from kiwi.
some of us had to go thru a clinic, and we only dose once a day. there are many who get by on the once a day thing.
im not overriding what anyone says, just so you know its possible, therefore you dont have to half and already teeny tiny amount.
just a thought
you are going real well
i gotta try and catch up to you.
my next drop will be tomorrow. to 2mg. wooo hooo.
good on ya
purpledog

[BlackKats]

Like Pdog says, Stay the course. See this thing out to the end! The last part of sub taper is the worst. I speak from a one time experience. We don't wanna talk about possible W/D's, but we all know that they are gonna be there, in one form or another. Once you get down to it, the last part of any project is the hardest. Think about that.
Make no mistake, after you take your last dose, you are gonna feel something. In my case, it was a little bit of everything. Don't be afraid of the ending, my friend. W/D's are xxxx deleted profanity xxxxx But if you complete the sub taper program to the end, you will have minimal symptoms. A few days of feeling kinda p00py, but nothing major. Keep on doing what your doing to the end of this thing, and you'll be fine.

Gary

Originally Posted by purpledog

hey k just a bit of info from kiwi.
some of us had to go thru a clinic, and we only dose once a day. there are many who get by on the once a day thing.
im not overriding what anyone says, just so you know its possible, therefore you dont have to half and already teeny tiny amount.
just a thought
you are going real well
i gotta try and catch up to you.
my next drop will be tomorrow. to 2mg. wooo hooo.
good on ya
purpledog

[kindwon]

I'm no too worried 'bout the w/d later in the taper after the hell I suffered when I stopped at 3 mgs. I know it's gonna suck and it is gonna drag on but I'm determined to get off of these things. Even if I could I wouldn't changed my experience. I think that my brain needed time to heal after the long use of opiates.

[kindwon]

I have been taking the bigger half of a 2 mg sub. I figure that is close to 1.25 mg. There really hasn't been too much of a difference in how I feel. I only get a nagging headache in the afternoon. Nothing that some tylenol can alleviate. So far so good. Next drop will be tomorrow to 1.00 mg. Will post again. Wish me luck.

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