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Suboxone vs. Just Quitting
  1. #1
    PinkToni is offline New Member
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    Default Suboxone vs. Just Quitting

    Hey, guys. I'm Toni. I have been reading the discussions on this board all day (when I really should be cleaning my house and getting things accomplished!) and I was wondering what people's overall opinion is between taking Suboxone and just quitting cold turkey. I'm on my 1st week of Suboxone after years of taking pretty much any opiate I could get my hands on, besides >>>>>>e. I'll spare you all the graphic details and just give you the short version. It started with an abusive ex, he liked breaking my bones to take the narcotics I was prescribed. When the pain got pretty bad, I tried them myself to see what all the fuss was about. I used occasionally until I was diagnosed with ovarian cysts and degenerative disc disease before I was 30. Then I started taking vicodin daily, until my tolerance got so high that I was spending every cent I had (and some I didn't) and every bit of time I had trying to get more and stronger pills. A couple weeks ago, I decided that I didn't want to be a slave to my addiction anymore and I tried to just quit. I wasn't successful on my own and I am now on Suboxone. After everything I have read and heard, I am wondering if I am just trading one addiction for another and if I would just be better off trying to quit cold turkey again. If so, I would like to know sooner rather than later so that I won't be trying to battle 2 addictions at once a couple months down the road. I do have serious painful problems, but I gave birth without drugs, so I'm pretty sure I can handle some cramping and a sore back, too. I would love to hear what anyone has to say on the subject, especially if you have some experience. Thanks! ~Toni

  2. #2
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Toni ..... if you want to use the subs the best I can advise is to follow the instructions in the link at the end of this post. This is how I did it myself and hundreds of others here have followed the same plan. Let me know if I can help you. I've been clean over nine years after using for 35 years. God bless.

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  3. #3
    PinkToni is offline New Member
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    Thanks, Robert_325! I have read a lot of your posts and I think you are really wise and strong and caring for helping so many people get off of those evil things! I have been having a really hard time this last week, not really sure if I am taking the correct dosage and just putting myself further into withdrawals. I am so fatigued and the simplest tasks seem like climbing mountains! I swear it's not just laziness! The thing is, is that I don't completely trust my doctor, or really any doctor for that matter. Ultimately taking the pills was my own bad decision, but if I had any idea what I was getting myself into, I would have left them alone! I don't want to be dependent on Suboxone or any drug. I would love to have my life back to when I was clear-headed and sober. Blah. I'm rambling again. But what I'm trying to say is that I trust the opinions of the PEOPLE who have gone through the same struggle I am going through over the doctors who know what's best for you in theory. Or this is how we THINK it works... I would like to start tapering myself off of Suboxone as soon as it's safe and doesn't make me too much more miserable than I already am. I would appreciate anything you could teach me to help me get my life back. I have had devastating losses over the last year that I was treating with opiates and now that I'm not high all the time, reality is crashing in on me and I am having a really hard time with physical and emotional pain. Thanks! ~Toni

  4. #4
    PinkToni is offline New Member
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    I don't want to keep posting and get on everyone's nerves. I hate being alone during this. Robert_325, I have been looking at your posts on here and seeing the way that you have inducted a lot of people and I really wish that I would have found this site before I ever took that first suboxone. I think that following the Dr's instructions is what has me feeling so ??????. The good news is that I am on my fifth day without pill shopping. It feels like my 5th year! Even though I have already started and been on the subs for 5 days is there any way you can help me now without me quitting them for a few days? If I have to quit, I can after my Dr appt tomorrow afternoon. I don't want to tell the Dr that I am going to try a different way than the one she lays out for me. (8mg every 12 hrs) Like most people, I have a pretty busy schedule and I can't take time off from life to come off of medication. I have 3 girls that I would rather if they didn't know anything was wrong at all. I've just been saying I don't feel well and hiding in my room. I have had substance abuse issues in the past. Alcohol, cocaine, meth, pills, and I have never had a hard time quitting anything. (When I wanted to!) But the opiates are a whole new ball game for me. I thought if I could beat meth I could beat anything, but the physical withdrawals from opiates are like nothing I have ever had to deal with! One thing I wasn't expecting is the depression over the losses I have had in the last year hitting me like a ton of bricks! I think I was masking my pain with pills and now that I'm not taking them I am feeling the pain of losing my brother in February like it just happened yesterday. Since he chose suicide as his method of leaving us and I know first-hand how painful it is to lose someone like that, I could never even consider it. But the pain I'm feeling sure makes me wish I could just sleep for a really long time! I made the mistake of being honest with people I thought I could trust about my opiate addiction and they used it as a weapon against me to make me feel about a million times worse about my situation. So I don't have too many people I can talk to about it. My boyfriend is quitting with me, but he's not the type to talk about feelings. My mom has been wonderful! But it has really hurt that so many people that I considered close to me have used my addiction as a way to think they are so much better than me and calling me a "pill-popper," and a "worthless drug-addict." It's really hard to stay on the right path instead of just going to get myself something to make me feel better!

  5. #5
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    I will help you start tapering and getting you off as soon as you are ready. Honestly though being in your first week if you really want my opinion I would stop the subs entirely for several days, go through the w/d, then let me re-incduct you properly. I have done this with people on 32mg and re-inducted them at less than 2mg. THAT is what I would really like to do even if it would put you into a bind for a week or so. Let me know what you think. You would never have to go back to the dr again after you get one more script so we would have enough meds to do this right. And don't worry about what others try and throw in your face. Lots of people like to keep others down so it makes them feel better about themselves. THEY are the ones with inferiority complexes. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    PinkToni is offline New Member
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    I could stop for a few days and get inducted. I am worried about the few days, though. I do have to function and take care of my house and kids every day and I am really worried about the withdrawals keeping me down. My youngest is 5 and in PM kindergarten and I have to take kids to school twice and pick them up once every day. I take driving, especially with kids in the car, very seriously and I don't have anyone at all to help with that. I am at my wits end depression-wise and just starting to feel kind of hopeless and lost. I think my pill problem was only the tip of the iceberg. My Dr is having me come in every week, so I will only have 14 strips to start.Will that be enough?

  7. #7
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkToni View Post
    I could stop for a few days and get inducted. I am worried about the few days, though. I do have to function and take care of my house and kids every day and I am really worried about the withdrawals keeping me down. My youngest is 5 and in PM kindergarten and I have to take kids to school twice and pick them up once every day. I take driving, especially with kids in the car, very seriously and I don't have anyone at all to help with that. I am at my wits end depression-wise and just starting to feel kind of hopeless and lost. I think my pill problem was only the tip of the iceberg. My Dr is having me come in every week, so I will only have 14 strips to start.Will that be enough?



    Toni ...... You would likely have to go closer to several days, possibly even a week, rather than a few days to do a re-induction properly. But you have to put things into the proper perspective.

    We all, as addicts, like instant gratification. But it's unrealistic to think we can abuse drugs for years and decide to be over it all of a sudden and it's done. It takes a little time to do this right. You would likely have to get that 14 strip script refilled once if you allow me to re-induct you. If we just start doing a taper from the 16mg you are currently taking this could take a number of months easily just because simply of the very high dose you are on.

    I would induct you at less than 4 mg, that is almost a certainty. It could be as low as a couple mg. I always induct people on very low doses. These sub drs just slam a big dose of sub down you and they have you as a money train for months and months if not years. The choice is yours although I realize that first week waiting to be inducted again would be rough. You would survive though if you really want it. What if you got the flu badly? You would figure out a way to survive, deal with the kids, etc, as you would have no choice in the matter.

    I realize you don't know me from Adam but I know how to do this. If you will go along with me I will stick this out with you until you are totally clean off the subs. All I ask is that you be naive enough to have some faith and do as I ask for sixty days. That seems like a small price to pay for a lifetime of being clean to me. God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 10-26-2011 at 12:24 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    PinkToni is offline New Member
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    Thanks, Robert. I really appreciate it! I have decided that I am going to be clean and interdependent at all costs, so I'm sure I can make myself get through it. I've had a crazy roller-coaster of a life and if I'm still here after all I've been through, it's gotta be for something other than existing day-to-day looking for pills to make me happy. I just can't do it anymore. It's no way for anybody to live. My brother killed himself with a gun, but I know that it was really his addictions that did him in. I know if he had been clear-headed and sober he would be with us right now. He was my best friend for 29 years and I will never stop missing him, but I can't depend on pills to make me happy and help me get through life. I need to find a way to be satisfied with my life and get satisfaction just from being here. So, I'm in. I am already taking less than what was prescribed. I took the full dose the first day and I never want to feel like that again! I just don't know anything when it comes to this stuff. I don't want to be high. I want to be clear headed. I just need someone like you to teach me the right way to do this so I don't muddle my way through and mess myself up worse than I already am. (If that's possible!) I do have a couple questions, though. My bf is doing this with me. He was taking about the same amount of opiates as I was, so we are taking about the same amount of sub. Will the guidelines you set for me work for him, also? We are both very serious about being sober once and for all. We agree that neither one of us can be successful in quitting without the other one doing it, too. I have told him in no uncertain terms that I love him more than I can say, but if he isn't completely serious about quitting for good than I will have to move out and do this on my own. Letting go of my addiction has to be my number 1 priority right now or I don't see how I can stop. So, can he just follow along with whatever I am doing? I like my Dr well enough, but I am not willing to be on 16mg a day for a year or more and just trade one addiction for another. Also, how will I get the correct dose? I am working with 8mg strips of sublingual film. Do I just cut it with a razor or something? I will get 14 strips tomorrow and 28 the week after that. They are testing me before they write anything, though. Do they test the amount? I don't want to get kicked off for not having enough in my system. Also, I have severe anxiety issues that turn me into a hot mess if I don't take xanax. I am worried that they will cut me off for the xanax in my system. Eventually when my head is on straight I will consider giving up the xanax, too, but as of right now I am not abusing it and it greatly helps me at night time. I would like to do this one thing at a time because I'm in a pretty fragile state of mind and I'm afraid if I try to quit everything at once I will just end up at square one and eating morphine for breakfast again. Thank you so much for taking the time to help me with this! You must be an amazing person to take the time and energy to help so many people deal with the hardest thing they have ever gone through! I appreciate everything you have said to me and everyone else! You've given me a lot of hope that I won't end up being a worthless junkie!

  9. #9
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Toni ..... I like doing couples together getting clean. You've just got to make sure that you are both equally committed to following this through all the way! Relationships based on drug-induced behavior don't usually survive very long unless both people get clean together also. It's too hard for one to be trying to get clean while your partner is using in your prescence so I think this is awesome! Your brother will be very proud of you watching down on you!

    While your programs will both be based on the same induction process and the same 25% reductions you could induce at slightly different amounts and taper at slightly different rates. I don't do a one size fits all. That is why we are successful here and so many drs just don't get it! Everyone is a little different and you will get the attention you both need here where a sub dr that sees you monthly can't possibly advise you properly seeing you so little even if they happen to know what they are doing, which by the way, would be the very slim minority of sub drs. I obviously don't hold most of them in a very high regard.

    All you have to do is stop the subs, talk to me every 2-3 days and when we know you're getting close to being ready for the re-induction we'll start checking you on the COWS worksheet and see how you both score. Then we'll proceed forward.

    I give you my word that if you will both stick this out with me and follow my instructions to the letter you will both end up clean with tolerable discomfort. I'm promising you that if you'll just be naive enough to listen to me I won't let you down. I've done this enough times that should either of you hit a snag, and anything is POSSIBLE, I've got plenty of tricks up my sleeve to pull you out of anything that comes along in a matter of less than an hour. That is a fact not just a line. I have nothing possible to gain from this but seeing you guys successful and watching your lives change for the better. God bless.
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    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  10. #10
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkToni View Post
    They are testing me before they write anything, though. Do they test the amount? I don't want to get kicked off for not having enough in my system. Also, I have severe anxiety issues that turn me into a hot mess if I don't take xanax. I am worried that they will cut me off for the xanax in my system. Eventually when my head is on straight I will consider giving up the xanax, too, but as of right now I am not abusing it and it greatly helps me at night time. I would like to do this one thing at a time because I'm in a pretty fragile state of mind and I'm afraid if I try to quit everything at once I will just end up at square one and eating morphine for breakfast again. Thank you so much for taking the time to help me with this! You must be an amazing person to take the time and energy to help so many people deal with the hardest thing they have ever gone through! I appreciate everything you have said to me and everyone else! You've given me a lot of hope that I won't end up being a worthless junkie!





    Toni ...... You'll be fine if they drug test you tomorrow. When you go back for your next script if the dr says you don't have the dose in your system he has prescribed tell him you've been trying to taper but you're sorry and you realize he/she is the dr and you won't blow it again. He's a freakin sub dr, you can get by him on one appointment even if it annoys him one time. You'll never need to go back again.

    I don't advocate lying to a dr ever. But as I see it this dr is just using you, treating you like they are a freakin drug dealer. You need the meds so you guys can get clean. You can shake your head yes when you need to, tell him what he needs to hear, get your meds and think "GOOD BYE" to him forever! You won't be making anymore of his BMW payments for him. You guys will be getting clean and changing your life.

    I say you need to do the subs first, then we can work on the benzo (xanax). It's too much to do it all at once. You won't know what your symptoms are even coming from if you do it all at once. I've worked with numerous people to get off the opiates and followed it up getting off the benzos. Only other way to do that would inpatient rehab and that is nightmare that isn't necessary if you follow my instructions. Sorry I missed answering that part of your question. God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 10-26-2011 at 03:11 PM.
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    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  11. #11
    PinkToni is offline New Member
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    Thank you so much for all of your quick replies, Robert_325! I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. I wouldn't normally lie to a Dr, but it seems like the Sub docs are really only interested in taking your money and not so much about your long-term health. The doc I am going through only deals with suboxone and before they even did my screening over the phone they wanted to know about my insurance and if I was able to pay if my insurance didn't cover it. They do have a one size fits all plan in place for whoever walks through the door. Everyone is different and so are their addictions so right away I didn't trust the program the Dr outlined for me. She didn't want to talk about the tapering process or answer questions about how long I would need to stay on Suboxone. She basically just told me to toss out any other medicanes and Suboxone was gonna be my savior from here on out. Of course, as soon as I took my first prescribed dose I realized that was a crock. I think if I take minimal amounts to get through the next 2 appointments I should have enough for my bf and I to both get started with your program. I have to say that I really like seeing that some of the people you helped get off could start at 1mg or less of the stuff. Since my bf and I are both very strong-willed and really focused on getting off of this stuff for good, I think we will do well just using the minimal amount to keep us from the more nightmarish symptoms of withdrawals. I really wish I had found you before I took that first dose, but I'm thankful that I found you now. I would hate to see myself a year from now trying to get off of extremely high doses of suboxone on my own! Of course I would love to just snap my fingers and have this all be over, but I know that anything worth doing is going to take time and effort. Thanks so much for being here for me! I'm sure you have been a Godsend to a lot of people! Sorry for being so long-winded. It's hard to get my thoughts in order.
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    Katwontlisten is offline Junior Member
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    Wow PinkToni you really hit the nail on the head about feeling a lot of emotional pain when off the opiates. I have been on sub for 4 days. I feel so grateful to not have to be a slave to my addiction. But I am feeling a lot of loss emotionally. I know when I was on the pills I was always upbeat, happy and full of energy. This past August I lost somebody very close to me to a massive heart attack that was completely out of the blue. I also found out the guy I was seeing was nothing but a theif and a liar. The last 6 months with him was nothing but a lie. He was also an addict. So I know in my heart I am better off without him. But I have really been feeling the loss these last few days. But I know things will get better. Best of luck to you. Kathy (hydro free 11/3/11)

  13. #13
    ColdTurkey> is offline New Member
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    Exclamation quit in 14days with suboxone.

    Quote Originally Posted by PinkToni View Post
    ....I think my pill problem was only the tip of the iceberg. My Dr is having me come in every week, so I will only have 14 strips to start.Will that be enough?
    I've been using >>>>>> for almost a whole year now, & my boyfriend almost four years. granted we don't slam it, we smoke it but still we have a pretty heavy habit ( we spend $60 minimum daily. ) we went through $1,700 in less than a week (when i started smoking with him) I've taken suboxone/subutex on the days that i just couldn't get any H. and quitting H with suboxone is easy in my eyes if you can get your hands on it. i just turned eighteen so my parents keep a sharp eye on me & would freak if they were to find out i was using... anyways, I've never been prescribed subs & didn't think you could addicted.

    Kick you habit in two weeks! that's all it should take!!!

    i don't know what your doctor told you but getting subs on the street (harder than it sounds in the central valley, CA) people tell how to take em'. The trick is to cut the strips into smaller strips.
    -i prefer the pills (some people still have those) if you have the pill you just break off a tiny piece almost if your just scraping it off the pill and let it devolve under your tongue, you may have to take a Little more than that, you may even have to take it two times a day but for the most part you'll feel normal.
    -a whole pill should las a whole week and it really only takes two weeks when you'll feel "normal" without the subs
    -the strips are alot harder to deal with & DO NOT LAST LONG one stip may last 3 days tops so 5 strips should be all you need.
    -cut the strip into 3 parts width wise...
    -cut those three into half's, put one piece under of the half's you cut in the morning or what i do is wake up an hour or two earlier than what i normally do, take the piece go back to bed and poof no pain when you wake up. if you do wait till you wake up than you'll feel the W/D
    -take the other half when the first starts to wear off or before bed whichever comes first.
    -the most important thing is to not take more than what you need. if you absolutely NEED another piece take another half halfway through your day. but always taper down, you'll find yourself not needing as much to feel well.

    i've used this method once before & it worked to get me physically better, clean & sober my boyfriends used it like three times. i admit we've both relapsed but two drug addicts together it's bound to happen. perhaps you'll have better luck. you might have to go cold turkey like i am (spent suboxone $$ on H & now cant get subs)
    -Loopy.


    *I not a doctor, just giving my advice. this has worked for me. hope it works for anybody else who needs it.
    Last edited by ddcmod; 11-10-2011 at 10:17 PM.

  14. #14
    Brycen is offline Banned
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    I thing physical therapy is a very good treatment in this scenario really help to recover and heal i have had the same issue last year and physical therapy really helped me...

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    jaypbarb666 is offline Member
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    Toni, I think honestly that you're attitude about subs is all wrong. First off, it is not "trading one addiction for another." I hate when people say that. Subs are FDA approved for helping addicts stay clean, not get high. Your body can get dependent on subs, but you should know that dependence and addiction are very different. I also noticed you commenced Robert for helping many people "get off those evil things." Suboxone is not an "evil thing" and you should look at is as a helpful tool in keeping you clean. It does not treat addiction as addiction is an incurable disease. It will merely help you feel alright physically and arresting your addiction is up to you.

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    jaypbarb666 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katwontlisten View Post
    Wow PinkToni you really hit the nail on the head about feeling a lot of emotional pain when off the opiates. I have been on sub for 4 days. I feel so grateful to not have to be a slave to my addiction. But I am feeling a lot of loss emotionally. I know when I was on the pills I was always upbeat, happy and full of energy. This past August I lost somebody very close to me to a massive heart attack that was completely out of the blue. I also found out the guy I was seeing was nothing but a theif and a liar. The last 6 months with him was nothing but a lie. He was also an addict. So I know in my heart I am better off without him. But I have really been feeling the loss these last few days. But I know things will get better. Best of luck to you. Kathy (hydro free 11/3/11)
    I understand what you mean about not feeling like your upbeat, happy, energized self since you are on subs instead of full-on opiates, but you should also understand that wasn't real. I always thought it was weird they were called "downers" cause they always made me feel motivated to do things, especially at work. You will feel normal again soon though. I like to always remind myself that each passing second I'm getting closer to my true freedom. And of course not being high for the first few days in however long you were using for is going to make you feel a little lethargic.

    Also I just noticed you are from Michigan. I live in the downriver area, there are tons of good meetings around here. What part do you live in?

  17. #17
    Katwontlisten is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Jay. Hope everything is going well for you. I live in Central Michigan but I was born and raised in Detroit for the first 18 years of my life. I really miss the big city but I have 3 kids and I feel much safer having raised them in a smaller community. I bet there are lots of meetings and support groups down in your area. You are really fortunate to have them available. I noticed a few people in the N.A. group I found weren't super supportive of the Suboxone. What they don't understand is that without the sub I wouldn't have been able to stop the opiates. I have been doing some reading on people who lack endorphins and I am wondering if maybe that isn't part of my problem?

  18. #18
    jaypbarb666 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katwontlisten View Post
    Hi Jay. Hope everything is going well for you. I live in Central Michigan but I was born and raised in Detroit for the first 18 years of my life. I really miss the big city but I have 3 kids and I feel much safer having raised them in a smaller community. I bet there are lots of meetings and support groups down in your area. You are really fortunate to have them available. I noticed a few people in the N.A. group I found weren't super supportive of the Suboxone. What they don't understand is that without the sub I wouldn't have been able to stop the opiates. I have been doing some reading on people who lack endorphins and I am wondering if maybe that isn't part of my problem?
    I would definitely not want to raise kids in Detroit lol, that is a bad area no doubt. That is weird I've never met anyone at meetings who weren't supportive of suboxone use. In fact, I don't believe I've ever met someone who got clean from opiates without subs. I don't know whether there are people who have low endorphins, maybe you just need to find something you love doing that releases them. I am a strongman competitor and whenever I set a new personal lifting record I feel amazing the rest of the day.

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