[WDDoc]

My question: 20 hours out from last 60 mg does of oxy. sO HOW LONG SHOULD i WAIT AND HOW MUCH SHOULD i TAKE? SNEEZEING, RUNNING NOSE, NIGHT SWEATS LAST NIGHT AND CHILLS FEEL GROSS. NO PUKE OR DIARRHEA. SOME GOOSE BUMPS. Please break out the master plan for a quick detox verse a symptomless detox. I cant be drug sick aafter two weeks man that sheit is worse then 4 days of hell.
I have 2 8 mg tabs of sub for today-will get more with no prob. they are just big bucks. I ran out of 300 10 mg oxys early and am still debating just going back on subs or sticking with my pain management regimen. ya know i think i will go the subs route as i now since taking so much oxy have Crazy T wave elevations ofn my EKG , a right branch bundle block(arrhythmia) thats constantly symptomatic(thats what it was Robert) and sick hypertension(up and down not steady, in other words labial) When I say hypertension its 240 over 140 and no i am not exaggerating. My doc said if I was not as athletically conditioned I might have bleed out of my brain. Relax-no one knows why my BP goes so high even on beta blockers. But heres a secret-it does not usually do this when i am on subs only when i am on oxys or vics. Weird huh. Well feel free to add your two cents to that.

MY Opinion-
Okay so here is the thing, I can say from my own experience that it is way easier to actually taper from the subs then say like 40mg of oxy 4 x a day-which i was taking. I got down from 160-60mg a day and that was it man i was sick as fill in the blank. Subs after you have passed the breakthrough point where you dont get high off them-and believe you me if you wd yourself enough then take enough subs you will be flying like a kite-are great because why stay on it when it does not get you high? BECAUSE YOU LIKE THE WORST CONSTIPATION OF YOUR LIFE?. You might want to try this at home kids as you will be almost so stoned you will have to lay down. I felt "Too stoned" (cant believe i just said that) and like i wanted to puke. I know some of you may be thinking thats fun I promise you it wont be. When the stuff makes you high it makes you sick(way more then oxy). If your too geared up on dope and dont wait long enough this wont happen. Subs work because of whats called a ceiling effect-this is what i have been told and what I have experienced. Different people have different physiology and this different ceilings i guess but most max out at like 16-24mg. I mean 32 mg and 24 mg is just the difference in a nutty doc i think in my highly subjective opinion.

Anyway these are of course my two bit subjective experiences.

[Robert_325]

Hey Wildman! Happy New Year! Good to see you back.

So are you ready now to get off this stuff or are you still deciding if you can do it or not with your medical issues? I can't tell for sure by your post if you are just wanting an idea to get past your w/d symptoms until you go back to the pain management dr or if you are ready to really do this but just wanting to do a rapid detox rather than a slower taper.

I want to add here that if you are having these cardiac issues and your bp is spiking like you describe the rapid detox is probably going to create more stress for you than doing a slower taper. I'm sure you realize that already without me saying it but I need to do it anyway to be sure.

I'm not positive doing something that may elevate your bp too much more or cause additional amounts of high anxiety are best for you right this moment while these other symptoms are so bothersome. Have you thought about that? Not trying to talk you out of anything. I just don't want to do anything that would harm you.

I've had bp as high as what you describe and higher in fact. 240/140 is not likely to kill anyone or stroke you unless you do something to make it worsen drastically and suddenly. I just don't want to be a part of something that would do that to you. Trying to look out for you is all. I agree that it's wise to get off any drugs that are contributing to your problems as you describe with the oxy. I do think though that you need to be cautious as you proceed forward doing this while these symptoms you describe are so serious.

Tell me what exacty you're wanting to do so I can better advise. To answer your initial question though you need to be at a 26 score or above on the COWS worksheet. From the way you describe yourself and your symptoms and considering that was four hours or so ago you're probably getting pretty close by now. Update me and let me know how it's going. I can kind of walk you through this but I need to know more as I just mentioned about what your plans are so I tell you the right thing. God bless.

[WDDoc]

I never got sick. I actually got stoned off of 6 mg of subs. Anyway that was a nice surprise. I am going to pain management to get my refill for when i get off the subs so that i have something in case of emergency. I am handing it over to my wife only to give to me if i am 8/10 on pain. I am down to 4mg on sub with no WD symptoms-oaky my head is FUBAR really bad. Severe depression-but no physical signs of WDs. I take 4mg in the am and thats it. I have been on this does for three days and after tommorow am going down to 2mg. I have done most of the tapering 2-3 days at a time tops. I was on subs for a LONG time and then was on the oxy for a few months again and now on subs so i have only been on the subs for a short period now. I dont want that long protracted WD syndrome. So here is my plan.

I am at I think day 8:4mg(not sure how i got here)
Day10: 2mg
Day 14: 1 mg
Day 20 1/2 mg
then every other day at half mg, then every thrid day after a week , then stop.

My cardiac symptoms ARE going hey wire but not in the way you would expect! MY HR is so low all the time. Once in a while my BP spikes high as hell but it is usually at night. I HAVE REAL PROBLEMS AT NIGHT. My heart rate drops so low that I have had to stop taking all my beta blockers which i was scared to do but more scared not to with a heart rate of 40bpm. Now without the beta blockers my hr is around 58-68bpm and my bp osscialtes between 103/60-169/110. Thats all folks. Do I think about getting high? Maybe a little-whats hard for me is my screaming ********** of a wife who could give a ******** less about withdrawals or detox and heart conditions and just expects me to do everything. I think she has her own addiction: me doing everything.

[Robert_325]

WDDoc ... that actually sounds like a pretty good plan to me. You're allowing at least four days between reductions which is good. The only thing that I see maybe causing a little trouble is the amount you're planning to reduce by each time. It's my experience that reducing by half of your dose will catch up with you. You might be ok doing it once, even twice, but then it often comes back to bite you. That is why I always suggest the 25% reductions rather than 50%. We are all a little different and 50% may work for you. But if you have any w/d symptoms I can tell you now without reading a post then that you should slow that taper to the 25% reduction each time. I don't like a 50% reduction. Good luck and God bless.

[WDDoc]

I am at day 1 of 2 mg, its night time, and I am really stressed. I am looking for anything: Chocolate,suger, I quite skoal at the same time-man i could use some dip tobacco. Thats okay I just look at my face and thank god its still there. Anyway-other then being strung out of my mind-just emotional-I have not had any physical WD symptoms. No matter what I always get WDs in the AM when I wake up. Does not matter how much I take or if i take it at night-which i dont anyway. Sleep is so F'ed up. That post with miles and you and musicman was something special. I never seen so many big words,not even in college. You know what they say: big words cover up little egos. Anyway. I am going nuts but hanging in there. I had an almost symptom free day from my cardiac symptoms which makes me believe it was the opiates all along. I think the subs are just milder. I inducted at 8mg dropped to 6-4-2 over about 10 days. So why do you think i test negative for everything? And how do i get my significant other to do the dish's? Seriously it is hard to get any support from anyone. You and This forum are my ONLY support network. I don't feel like I fit well into the NA paradigm.(guess I wass feeling a little insecure) HAHA

[Robert_325]

Nothing I can do about this Miles guy. Like musicman said, Miles just thrives on attention. What a joke. Miles can ream me all he wants (I just consider the source) but he needs to leave the others on this forum alone. That pi$$es me off. I don't care in the least what he says about me. I won't lower myself to his level.

I don't know what to say about who does your dishes either. lol Guess I don't have the answers for everything. Sounds like a therapist issue to me. lol

What all are you testing negative for? Bloodwork or what? I will be out most of Friday with dental surgery. I've been in SO much pain lately I can't stand it anymore. I just don't discuss my pain issues here very often unless they are MAJOR. Now it's my turn to hurt for a day or two badly. Been going on daily since Thanksgiving. I can't even sleep tonite as I am a wuss thinking about my morning having someone cutting up the inside of my mouth. I will survive and I WON'T take any freakin pain pills.

I will be back late Friday or Saturday. Hang in there. This will all work out. Take care my friend. God bless.

[WDDoc]

Get lots of local anesthetic and you should be fine-although i don't know what you are getting done.