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Suboxone and the nasty Naloxone blocker
  1. #1
    seenitall is offline New Member
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    Default Suboxone and the nasty Naloxone blocker

    Hello...Anyone who is on Suboxone, knows that it is made up of two parts. One of those parts is Nalaxone which is a antagonist or opiod blocker. This Nalaxone attaches to ones brain receptors and blocks any other opiods from getting in. Which means....If I am on Suboxone, don't even bother taking any Vic's or perc's...because it won't do a thing! But..but...but....The Nalaxone has to wear off eventually. What I mean is that the brain receptors have to become UNBLOCKED eventually and allow other opiates in.
    I have been experimenting(just because)....It has been almost 3 days now since I last took any Suboxone (which I have been on for 5 months now)....I have taken many 7.5 Vicodin over the last 3 days taking a couple more each time each dose every 7 hrs.....AND NOTHING!!...NO "high" effects!! Does anyone know how long it takes for the Naloxone to wear off from the brain receptors????...or am I going to be the first to find out??? Thanks!!

  2. #2
    amazonian1 is offline New Member
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    Hi seenitall,
    I dont know when the naloxone wears off, but I do know that even if you dont feel high from taking all those pills, you can still od. Be careful of what your doing. I'd hate for you to die just trying to find out when it wears off.Good Luck.

  3. #3
    seenitall is offline New Member
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    Day 4 and almost into day 5 as we speak. Haven't taken any Suboxone in almost 5 days. If anyone read my last post,.....I am experimenting on this Suboxone medication. I have been taking Suboxone for almost 5 months now...and it is wonderful!!!....Best thing that ever happened to me! I have my life back!!! Suboxone is made up of two parts....One part is like an opiate to help with the withdrawl and the other part is a antagonist(NALAXONE) which blocks any OTHER opiates from getting in to a person's brain receptors. I am trying to find out how long it takes for the NALAXONE to wear off or become UNBLOCKED from ones brain receptors. Like I said....it has been almost 5 days now since I last took any Suboxone. I have been experimenting.....and taking 7.5 es Vicodin for these last five days! Well, guess what? NO FEELING! NO HIGH!!! NOTHING!!! So obviously, the NALAXONE part of the the SUBOXONE is doing a real good job of STILL blocking the Vicodin from attaching to my brain receptors and giving me a "high"!....This is good!!!....And I am just doing this experiment to stop people from ever going back to the Vic's and Perc's after they have been on SUBOXONE. I probably will never know how long the NALAXONE part of SUBOXONE will block and stay attached to my brain's receptors ....but it's already been 5 days without feeling a thing when I took the Vicodin 7.5 (up to 6 at a time)......and I just have this feeling that it will block for atleast another week. So the moral of this story (to anyone wanting to go back to the opiate "high" after being on SUBOXONE)....Don't waste your TIME OR MONEY!!!!! YOU WON"T GET HIGH!!!! Stay on the SUBOXONE until you can work your way off it!!
    I hope that by doing this little experiment......I helped someone!!
    YOUR WELCOME.
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  4. #4
    mpvt is offline Platinum Member
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    What you have to remember is vic's and percs are very weak narcotic pain killers.Suboxone has 2 drugs in it.The first being buprenorphene,a strong narcotic.Then you have naloxone which is there for people who try and inject the suboxone.It has little effect when you take it orally in the small amount thats in suboxone.Your not feeling the high because buprenorphene is alot stronger than vic's or perc's.You have a high tolerance now.You should stop taking the vic's though or your going to end up back at square one.Good luck..Dave

  5. #5
    ginafl2 is offline Member
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    I have heard the same thing. My Doc wouldn't give me suboxone because he said it was stronger than the amount of hydro I was taking. I was taking about 10 10/325 a day. I'm now down to 2 1/2. Anyway, I don't think it's a good idea to take he vicodin.

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    seenitall is offline New Member
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    Thanks for the input!! I am trying to understand this Suboxone stuff and I really have been reading up on it and investigating. I do know alot about it and how it works.......But I was unaware of the fact that Suboxone is stronger than the Vic's!?!? Now I guess I know why I wasn't feeling anything (even after taking 14 one day) for the 5 days I tried to take the Vic's. I am not taking them anymore!...Experiment over!!....It's now day 6 and I am back taking the Suboxone......and to tell you the truth, I feel sooooo much better than the last 5 days!! ...But now I am nervous that I have taken on another problem with this SUBOXONE stuff!!???! It makes me feel great! I take 12mg a day.......Am I going to be able to kick this Suboxone "Habit"??? The Doctors never informed me about this part?!?




    What you have to remember is vic's and percs are very weak narcotic pain killers.Suboxone has 2 drugs in it.The first being buprenorphene,a strong narcotic.Then you have naloxone which is there for people who try and inject the suboxone.It has little effect when you take it orally in the small amount thats in suboxone.Your not feeling the high because buprenorphene is alot stronger than vic's or perc's.You have a high tolerance now.You should stop taking the vic's though or your going to end up back at square one.Good luck..Dave
    [/quote]
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  7. #7
    justwhatever is offline Member
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    The effects of the narcotic are probably going to taper off eventually, so be prepared for that. Taking all the vics and percs on top of the meds your doc prescribed you is a bad idea, and can destroy your liver. If you want to kick this addiction, you have to remain strong, even during the most difficult parts. Keep updating us on how you are doing, but I don't think your doc would agree with you turning yourself into a self taught guinea pig. Good luck, and keep us posted--- remember, you are getting off these drugs for great and noble reasons

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    firedancer41 is offline New Member
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    I have been on Suboxone for about a year now (16mg) and this is how my doctor explained ot to me: When taken correctly very little naloxone gets absorbed, mainly b/c it can't be absorbed sublingually (sp?). Of course a little always gets in you because you do swallow some of the saliva when it's desolving under your tongue, never enough to mess up the effects of the buprenorphine though. The main reason it's in there is to discourage people from shouting it. The reason you're probably not feeling the effects is b/c the buprenorphine is already in your opiate receptors. It's like if you have ever tried to get high over methadone, it just doesn't really work. The effects of the buprenorphine wear off in about 2-3 days, which I know from experience. Hope that helped - Leah

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    seenitall is offline New Member
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    Thanks Firedancer41.....I am starting to really understand this Suboxone stuff. Let me tell you this though......I have been on the Suboxone for about 5 months now and as you have read my prior posts, I tried to see if I could get "high" on Vic's ES while I stopped taking Suboxone ......and as we know, the Suboxone never let me get "HIGH" during the 6 days that I kept taking Vic's!! At one point (after not having Vic's for 6 months), I took like 8 Vic's ES at one time to see if I could over-power the Suboxone! BUT NOTHING!!!...To be honest, I started to feel like **** by that 5th and 6th day. I couldn't take it anymore after 6 days off the Suboxone and went back to taking the Suboxone again. What a feeling!!! My body started to feel good almost within a 1/2 hour and I was back to normal again!
    I will never try that experiment again....but atleast I learned something and was able to share it with everyone else. Peace!



    quote:Originally posted by firedancer41

    I have been on Suboxone for about a year now (16mg) and this is how my doctor explained ot to me: When taken correctly very little naloxone gets absorbed, mainly b/c it can't be absorbed sublingually (sp?). Of course a little always gets in you because you do swallow some of the saliva when it's desolving under your tongue, never enough to mess up the effects of the buprenorphine though. The main reason it's in there is to discourage people from shouting it. The reason you're probably not feeling the effects is b/c the buprenorphine is already in your opiate receptors. It's like if you have ever tried to get high over methadone, it just doesn't really work. The effects of the buprenorphine wear off in about 2-3 days, which I know from experience. Hope that helped - Leah

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    vinatierisgirl is offline New Member
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    I am a Perc addict, who was put on Suboxone on Tuesday. I took five 2 mg. pills since then, my last being last night around 7PM. Being the good addict that I am, I got a refill on my Percs today. I thought I had let enough time go by that if I took my usual handful (around 10) that I would get high. Well guess what? All I have is tiredness, or nodding if you will[xx(] How long will the Suboxone stay in my system? I know these pills will burn a hole in my pocket waiting for the Suboxone to get out of my system. On the other hand, I don't want to waste my Perc's if I am not getting the buzz. Has anyone else looked into this[?] Thanks
    ~~Jen~~

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    PoppyQueen is offline Member
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    Jen, what's the point of going on Suboxone for 2 days and then trying to get high off of percs? Why did you bother with Sub in the first place? I think it's a one or the other deal. Us addicts want our cake and be able to eat it too, but I think we have a choice to make. Maybe you are not ready, something I'm grappling with but I am still forging ahead to get on Suboxone next week. I'm beginning to see the taking Suboxone alone without any other support may not be enough for some.

    Good luck,
    PQ

  12. #12
    vinatierisgirl is offline New Member
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    Hey Poppy
    You are right, I guess I was not ready. I tried the Suboxone to get off the Percs, b/c I was sick of the way I was feeling. Not only physically, but mentally and emotionally as well. I was clean for 3.5 years and I know what I need to do to get my life in order again. I wanted the "easy way out", which was the Suboxone way to me. (I am NOT saying that it is the easy way for everyone, for alot of ppl it is the ONLY way).I know that getting and staying sober is hard work, as I have done it before. I was being lazy, and didn't want to do the work once again. I just wanted to detox rapidly and not feel the pain from doing it. I took the Suboxone and it made me ill, worse than detoxing (I think I took it too early in my withdrawal stage). In my mind the only thing that would have made me better was the Perc's (I told you I was a good addict, with the stinkin thinkin that goes with it!!)That is why I asked the question about how long it takes to get the Naloxone blocker out of your system.

    But anyway I have great news. Probaly is only great for me, but hell I need it. I woke up this morning with no withdrawal symptoms at all. No headache, no nausea, no dizziness, no leg cramps.....nothing!! I feel greatSo with 5 Suboxone and 60 Percs in a drawer in my bedroom, I have choices. But the choice I made this morning was to get up early and go to an AA meeting at 7 AM. I confessed to all of my "real friends" that I screwed up, but am back and need help. You wouldn't even believe the support network I have. People had looked up to me because I ran my program by the book when I was clean and was an active AA member. My life was great. Everything the program promised me came true. I got a great job (I still have it), I got custody of my son back, got an apartment, a car, my license back (DUI on drugs 5 years ago). I have a real life, and was going to throw everything I worked my ass of for away for a stupid pill with 512 on it. I came to realize that I CAN do it again, I just need to do the work and take out the tools that I have learned over the years and actually USE them.
    So bye bye, Suboxone, and a BIG bye bye to Percs.
    My son is alot more important to me that any pill on earth. I would die if I couldn't hug and kiss that beautiful little boy whenever I wanted to, or peek in on him when he is sleeping, or see the proud look on his face when he hits a pitch off the coach in baseball.

    Thank you for caring Poppy, I really appreciate that. I will keep you updated on my progress

    Jen
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  13. #13
    nancyjeannes.comcast.net is offline Junior Member
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    quote:Originally posted by PoppyQueen

    Jen, what's the point of going on Suboxone for 2 days and then trying to get high off of percs? Why did you bother with Sub in the first place? I think it's a one or the other deal. Us addicts want our cake and be able to eat it too, but I think we have a choice to make. Maybe you are not ready, something I'm grappling with but I am still forging ahead to get on Suboxone next week. I'm beginning to see the taking Suboxone alone without any other support may not be enough for some.

    Good luck,
    PQ
    nancy

  14. #14
    hamtramck is offline New Member
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    First time here. Been on Suboxone 2 weeks (addiction to vic's & perc's) and it is working wonderfully.

    Has anyone noticed that this medicine make one hypersensitive? I am very near tears all the time.

    Of course, the fact that my wife asked for a divorce, 24 hours after I started treatment does not help. It is hard enough to go through detox, but to have to deal (suddenly and without warning) a marriage problem at the same time is devastating. Making it even harder is that my (normally) sensitive and loving wife said she "didn't care what I was going through".

    Wow! I am in a tough situation. What makes it even tougher is that I would never, ever, dream of abandoning or leaving my wife were she detoxing -- or in need of any other kind of help. I would never have dreamed that she would go so low either.

    BTW, the divorce talk had nothing to do with my drug problem.
    I am in a tough situation.

  15. #15
    vinatierisgirl is offline New Member
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    Hey there
    First off, congrats on getting onto the treatment program. From what I hear, Suboxone is the best and sometimes only way to stay off Narcotics
    Second, I hate to be the one to break it to you. But you say the divorce was without warning. Well, being the good addicts that we are, most of the time we wouldn't even notice if the earth were exploding around us. Meaning, this probably has been coming for a long time. Spouses of addicts tend to stick around while the person is using because they don't want anything bad to happen to them while they are messed up. And alot of time it's because they don't want to feel the guilt if something were to happen. It is when we get sober, that they think you can actually "handle it" and end things. I have seen it a million times at AA meetings. People come in just getting clean, and get a little time under their belt then their signifigant other leaves. Alot of times it has to do with the fact that they no longer have control over you. You have been the dependent one and they have been the strong one for so long that they don't know how to deal with you when you can actually make some decisions concerning your own life. When we are using, the people around us tend to take control of every situation and it is hard to share that control...do you see what I am saying?

    Good luck with everything

    Jen
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    hamtramck is offline New Member
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    Jen, thank you for your thoughts. I do see what you mean? I will say that things are getting better day by day.
    Regards

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    suboxone4life is offline New Member
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    Hi everyone, I mean Hi...not HIGH

    I too am wondering about sneaking a pill every once in awhile.
    For example, I was thinking....... Why can't I stop the suboxone for a few days, take 1 week to enjoy the pills (oxycotin) and start the suboxone back on the weekend. I read a few posts where someone tried it and didn't get high so he went back on suboxone, but he didn't explain if he went thru any WITHDRAWALS when he went back on. If you have any opiates in your system, you will go into EXTREME WITHDRAWALS FAST. If you don't get a high from the pills, that could be the lease of your problems. Imagine going thru those withdrawals all over again. Anyway, thats the only reason I haven't tried 3 weeks on sub and 1 week on Opiates. In a way, it would be the perfect world. To have the ability to get a buzz and then jump back to suboxone to the rescue !

    Suboxone user

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    PoppyQueen is offline Member
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    Man, if that ain't junkie thinking, I don't know what is! Itmight work if you go an entire week between the Sub. and the Oxy. What're you gonna do then?

    It sounds like you're not ready to quit. I've been on Sub two weeks and I think of my old Vics here and there; I miss them mostly when I'm in pain. I'm hoping that the longer I stay on Sub the less I'll think about the Vics. They were the most fun for me when I was drinking with them. But I'm in my fifties and it's time to grow up and move on in a positive way.

    Good luck, you ole junkie, you! (me too)

    PQ

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    heybaby is offline New Member
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    HEY SEENITALL, i myself have 'seen it all" too..specifically about pills, i know about all of em, and i have been on and off suboxone for a cpl yrs now, and i always go back to "my drug" which is, oxys, percs, vicodin, etc. the answer to your question, is YES after u stop suboxone, it will still effect the way u react to other opiates. it generally takes 5-8 days to be able to get the "high" again. dont even bother til 5, cuz its just a waste. ...and..it of course is better to just go off totally, but i can never do it, so im not gonna preach that to u..but, theres your answer! hope i helped...feel free to ask me anything else on this subject, and i will try to help.

  20. #20
    fasthack_m is offline New Member
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    Pardon me but I hear a lot of whining about Suboxone. I have been a hard core user: Darvon>Hydrocodone>OxyContin>Fentanyl(Spe cial warm memories, oh the sweat patch that it is!)>Methadone<Suboxone. I have died for 6 seconds from Fentanyl OD, then brought back to the living by nasty Narcan. I would have to say that Fentanyl is my yin n yang.[}] To tell you the truth I kind of landed on Sub because I keep running out of Methadone to early (you know addicts are funny that way). Anyways I have fallen in love all over again. You see for the addict with a sweet tooth for Bup, Suboxone is yummy![^] I haven't felt this good since Fent and I plan on staying on Sub the rest of my life or until something more delicious comes about. I suffer from degenerative disc disease 6 level fusion so I pretty much have a menu to look at. Strange that my choice would be Suboxone, oh well. Do not, I repeat do not run out of it early! You will be sorry come the 3rd day.[xx(]

  21. #21
    Methodummy is offline New Member
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    Default Suboxone Question

    I was taking 24mg od Sub a day for the past 6 months. I am out but have 10/325mg of Vics. Do you know If this will keep me from withdrawls from the Sub? I wont be seeing my Dr for the Sub until another 1.5 weeks.

    "Oh what a tangle web we've weaved" Once you get involved in Opiates, it NEVER leaves you. That's the good thing about Sub, if you have insurance or can afford it. It allows you to live a normal life without being high. It does make you very edgy though (at least it does to me).I have three older Sisters............all Opiate addicts. I'm the youngest and, well......It finally found me too. It has torn this family apart. We use to be tighter than the Rabi on the corner. Not anymore.

    I stopped Sub yesterday and just took 2 10/325mg Vics and yep. you guessed it............notta ting!

    tanku

  22. #22
    mpvt is offline Platinum Member
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    Vics are useless even without buprenorphene.It's going to take about 4-5 days before you really go into withdrawls and that's when the vic's may help. I wouldn't take any now as the blocking effect of the buprenorphene will stop the vics from being effective.One you are in real withdrawls then you'll need a bunch of vic's.Good luck to you and have you tried lowering your buprenorphene dose.The saying with buprenorphene is less is best.Good luck.......Dave

  23. #23
    Methodummy is offline New Member
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    Default Thanks for replying Dave

    We'll see what happens. I'lll post again on Monday or Tuesday.

  24. #24
    Methodummy is offline New Member
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    Default Acetometophin OD??

    Hi All,

    I am wondering if anyone is knowledgable about taking too many vics per day and the effects of acetometophine (sp?) OD. I feel mino pain around my liver area and I wonder if this is in my head or if someone truly has liver toxcicity, will they feel minor pain in the lkiver area. OR if this will go away after I stop takin them. I was on Vics for years and took anywhere from 12-22 per day. These were the 10/325 mg pills. So 20 vics @ 325mg acetometophine equals 6500 mg's of tylenol/acetometophine. I had my liver checked regulary and it was as normal normal can be.....this was when I use to take vics. I havent had any for about two years now and then last thursday I got a perscription. I know 4000 mg / day is what they say the max is per day but I have had days when I would have 8500 mg/day of tylenol/acetometophine.

    So to sum up my question, if you have liver toxcicity, will you experience minor pain in the liver area after taking vics?

    Does this make sens....not sure if I am explaining this properly??

  25. #25
    mpvt is offline Platinum Member
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    How long are you going to be on the vicoden???If it's a short time then I wouldn't worry to much.....Dave

  26. #26
    Methodummy is offline New Member
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    Default Vics---Concerned about the acetometophine (sp?)

    Thanks for responding Dave! I have a script of 120 10/325's. I dont plan opn getting anymore due to the fact the Sub has built up my tollerance. I have to take a ******************** load just to get a buzz. I never take more than 15-20/day at the most. I am just concerned because they say you wont have anyt major symptoms until the 3rd or 4th day after taking too many......as it pertains to liver toxcity. After going off Sub and then the next day of taking vics, I basically wasted a weeks worth of vis because the Sub blocked it. BUT, it still helped me going into awefull Sub withdrawl..........soo I dont really look at it as being a waste. My problem is that I dring Milwaukees Best Ice beer and that combined with Vics.........that isnt so good for the old liver.

  27. #27
    mpvt is offline Platinum Member
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    Drinking beer with all that tylenol man you're going to blow out your liver.I wish you the best of luck.....Dave

  28. #28
    Stella Blue is offline New Member
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    I was on Sub for 5 days (I could only get 5 tabs) and I relapsed due to pain.

    The vics didn't work at first, as you said. But eventually they did and it was sort of unpleasant. I was dizzy as hell almost to the point of blacking out and I think I puked. Not fun. If I remember correctly it took about 4-5 days for me to feel them though, maybe a week.

  29. #29
    Lee Durham is offline New Member
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    My wife wanted a divorse from me after 24 years because I was addicted. I felt sorry for me and said what you did. THen realized... I have to do this for me, then.. if that was the problem. We will get back. ADN that's what happened. Now it's been 28 years and the last years since the addiction have been the greatest. There is hope- BUT- don't force it and concentrate on getting yourself together, thenyou can work on the two of you. Praying helps- I have weird stories about how that helps.. and I'm not a holy roller either. Good Luck Man ... and if it doen't work out... (Your best revenge is happiness...)

  30. #30
    hbco2 is offline New Member
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    buprenorphine (sorry spelling) has a long half life in the body... even tho PART of it is an opiate... it ALSO partially antagonizes the receptor just like naloxone.

    Naloxone has a short half life, I can't see an emergency dept giving a patient something that would have long lasting effects like that. If you inject naloxone into someone who is not taking opiates it would be cruel and unusual punishment. They would experience severe pain. As would a person who OD's and gets too much naloxone... even their body's own natural opiates won't bind receptors... resulting in severe pain.

    So my point is that I think the partial mu 1 opioid antagonizing properties of buprenorphine is what is causing your problems... it can stay in the body something like 20 days. Maybe that is more the problem than the naloxone...

    Just something to think about....

    so maybe you problems are from the antagonist characteristics of Buprenorphine (spelling?)

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