[HicksvilleNY]

Great news Robert, sounds like you are having a great day!


Myself, I'm the same as yesterday and not feeling all that great tonight, heading to bed hoping tomorrow is a better day

night all

[Charliez]

Robert, congratulations on a great day for yourself there is nothing like knowing all has been forgiven. The first thing I said when I came up out of the water was I am forgiven for everything I ever done ( like with a question on my face) with teary eyes and a thought of (this is so great) I could just feel it . The preacher said yes that is the promise. This good feeling will always be with you brother. Sleep well & will talk tomorrow.......

[Robert_325]

Yes ... a really great day. I have a renewed sense of energy, centeredness, compassion, happiness.... I know I will sleep well tonight. It's very hard to explain. I hope this feeling never goes away like you said Charlie. I will pray that I am able to prove myself worthy of this blessing.

Now it's back to dealing with this medication. I know we will all have a good week this week. If we just don't increase what we do then it's a step forward I think. Not losing ground is the most important thing. We just have to focus on doing our best each day without going backwards and remove our self-imposed pressure.

If something should happen and we do have a bad day and lose a little ground for the day well that will not change our over all outcome. We have the power to choose in everything we do. We will win this deal.

[HicksvilleNY]

Back to the Grindstone today,,,, have a great day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Charliez]

Afternoon, I just got back from the therapist he was encouraging. He has a couple of possibilities about obtaining a new doc. for me we will know something within a few days. I have until about the 16th. before the rafters start to shake around here. There are going to be a lot of people looking for one. The doc. I was seeing has left & they have all these people that will be looking. There is another doc. but only one & they had 200 patients at that office 100 apiece. What a deal hu? Anyways I have a couple of leads & so does the therapist so I should be alright. Hope you guys are doing good today very nice weather wise here. I am still at 14 not yet been able to back down anymore yet. My back is still acting up & that don't help any the sub. does have some pain reliever in it but that's all I get. Take care I will be checking back on here this evening...........enjoy the weather!

[Robert_325]

Charlie ... I didn't think about all the other patients the drs have in the same boat as you are. I can see that obviously creating even more of a problem with the drs leaving. I know at the suboxone.com web site there are tons of both MDs and therapists who can prescribe the medication. Of course I don't know how many of them are taking on new patients or are within a reasonable distance from you. I am confident you will be successful. They just couldn't throw all of the patients to the wolves. That would be a total drag. I am sure it will all work out fine. I understand about the back. I have several problems like lots of us that started on these pain meds with prescriptions. Been going on almost my whole life.

Ralph ... I hope you are having a good day today. Just don't put so much pressure on yourself. You might want to try what I am doing ... just a thought.

I am finding it relatively simple to stay at 6mg. I am just omitting my morning dose and not taking any until late in the afternoon. I just broke off a little corner ... first I have taken today. I will keep it at 6mg until after I see the dr this Thursday. I will knock off just a little more on Friday or Saturday.

I think for me the key is to put off that first dose of the day until as late as possible. I would like to be able to omit it entirely. I think that is what I will have to do when I go to less than 4mg or maybe even at 4mg. I will either not take any until bedtime or I will start skipping days entirely. Seems I am ok until I take the first dose. Once I do that I start wanting the rest I have allotted myself for the day. It might be easier to just skip a day every other day or even every third day. Will just have to play with it and see how it goes. I guess I can be the sacrifical lamb for finding what works when we get to a lower dose. This is going to be where it starts getting tough I think when it gets down to under 4mg. I will just take a day at a time and not get upset about it. I think we are all doing really well.

I have Bible study at 6:00 this evening. I will be back online after I get home and for a little longer until I leave.

[Charliez]

The morning is the time I need it the most. Gets my day started I have been taking something in the morning for such a long time ,that's the first thing I do . I always did feel bad in the mornings even when I was not taking anything ,so the morning dose is going to be the toughest for me I think. Something else the therapist said today that we build something like -I need it to start my day , I could never get going without it or I dread the wd's really bad he says we can build this up to be a lot more than it has to be. The power of suggestion & the power of our minds can make anything seem real or even bigger. Not saying what we are thinking is bad just was thinking about some things he had said. I know I sure am capable of doing this myself. talk later....

[HicksvilleNY]

I'm a morning person too,
I used to sit and read the news with my coffee and my vicodin, i needed it to start the day too.
I'm down 2 again from yesterday so that would be 6 less in a week, I think i can hold out a couple more hours and go to bed, so instead of 2 8s and 2 2s i took 1-1/2 8s and and a 2 = 14, not feeling too bad either, will see what tomorrow brings... I can't stand this stuff anymore. can't stand the way it makes me feel and what it does to me, its horrible stuff, but it did get me off the Vics. so I'm glad for that, but I want to be done with it asap,

night all, see you tomorrow

[Robert_325]

That is great Ralph. It's a lot to drop in one week but it is how I was able to take advantage of being on a higher dose in my mind. I tried to look at it as an opportunity. It doesn't represent half of what you are taking or anything close. That is what I tried to tell myself when I started anyway.

I agree with our being able to sell ourselves about anything Charlie. We are strongly influenced by the power of self-suggestion. That is why people do pep talks in sports, etc. The power of self-suggestion can turn into auto-suggestion if we do it often enough. And those suggestions can be positive or they can affect us negatively like your therapist was saying. I know I have to watch it that I don't convince myself of things that are detrimental to me or others around me. I really have to concentrate on keeping it positive at all times. I turn to God to help me stay focused on the things that are really important so I don't blow it.

It doesn't matter if we reduce our intake in the morning, afternoon, night or whatever. It's whatever works for each of individually. I think for me it really depends on what I have going in the morning. But again, what each of us does specifically is our own thing. I know it's good for us to share with each other what we do and hopefully we can all get something that helps each one of us.

I will remain at about 6mg as I am totally comfortable there as I said. I could probably cut it a little more, but I want to do it slowly as those who have been successful with this have suggested. I think we all probably try to push the envelope a little. I just want to be conservative with this and do it slowly and cautiously. Later guys.

[Robert_325]

Well I did not take any medication last night before bed so I did my first day at about 3-4mg yesterday. I was not going to reduce it any until the weekend but decided to just play with this and see how it would go. I did not really sleep very well. Wasn't sick or anything, just tossing and turning. I did sleep several hours though so that made it tolerable. I would like to keep it at no more than 4-5mg today if I can do it comfortably. If I have trouble with that then I will do the 6mg again. 4-5mg is still a small reduction from the 6mg, but not as much as yesterday. That would be 1-2mg less, probably closer to what we should reduce anyway at one time. I broke off a little piece this morning, probably 2mg. Then I will try to do less than 4mg again tomorrow. I have some appointments today so I won't be around it during the day. I think I can do this more easily than I thought. I know that I do not need to go any faster than I am going though or I will have W/Ds.

I was wondering about something. I know Suboxone has Naloxone in it and Subutex does not. I think that is the only difference. Curious to know if the prescence of Naloxone has any effect one way or the other when we try to reduce our dosage. From what I have read ( if I understand properly ) Subutex is easier to abuse. That would make it seem to me that it may be a little harder to reduce the Subutex. I don't know for sure. Just curious if you guys have read anything I have missed on this. Think I will post a question on the forum and see if I get any response. Will catch you later today.

[Charliez]

Good question I am taking the one with the Naloxone. Seems I saw somewhere where it may make a difference. Not sure though I will see if I can find anything on it also. I put a post out there about having this rash just on my lower legs and lower arms mainly & I thought it was or must be from the sub. only thing it took like a month or more before it showed & have saw where a reaction from meds will usually show around 1 week or so but this took a little longer. I saw somewhere on here somebody had asked a similar question & I was trying to find them. But now I am not so sure about where it originated I thought the sub. was the only thing different I had put into my body . Now I find out get this The government passed a law requiring cigarette companies to put this additive along with some extra kind of paper that makes cigarettes extinguish themselves called Reduced Ignition Propensity or RIP. lol also called safe cigarettes . I don't know if either of you smoke but I do & this was put into tobacco without anyone's knowledge...I noticed a big difference in taste & them going out. lately along with some other unpleasant things.....I also saw where people were reporting this rash. hu? unbelievable....

[Robert_325]

I saw your post Charlie about the rash. I didn't know anything that would help you so I didn't respond. Hope that you find out what is causing it and that it gets better.

I have not heard of the "safe cigarettes" yet. What a bunch of nonsense that is. Manufacturers trying anything they can do to save their business from dying ... along with their victims. I used to smoke, have quit at least 5 or 6 times over the years I am sure. Quit a couple times for over a year. Always went back to them, but this time it has been almost ten years now. I quit in the fall of 1999 the last time. Never smoked a full pack when I smoked so it was always fairly easy for me to quit. I pray I never do it again. Don't think I will as long at it has been. I know if I ever smoke any cigarettes that will be it. I will be right back on them again. They are SO addictive. I just can't pay almost $5.00 a pack. It just blows me away what they cost now. I did smoke cigars for a short while during that ten year period, but saw how dumb that was too, that I was playing with fire smoking anything. I'm so thankful that I have managed to keep a safe distance from cigarettes since stopping.

You know it really would not be surprising if the chemicals or paper they added to cigarettes that you spoke of might be causing that rash. Would be impossible to tell when you were first exposed to it. I haven't seen anything posted about any rashes from the Sub ... of course that doesn't mean it couldn't cause them at times. We all react differently to meds as you mentioned. There are any number of reactions we could have. A rash would certainly be one of them. I agree with you though that a month seems kind of long to be taking a medication and then out of the blue a rash starts showing up. It's just impossible to tell.

Hope you guys are having a good day. My day at work ended early today. So I will be around ... will catch you online this afternoon.

[Charliez]

I was looking on the web about those cigs. And found Ohio has not yet started selling the so called safe cigs. So I jumped on my bike & rode across the bridge I live right on the Ohio river and talked with a couple of business over there about them & they knew all about them seems the places that sell them know it's just most people don't. Ohio has a higher tax than K.y. but good to have my cigs. back! There is a major difference. Those other's are nasty I know all are nasty but those are worse. Good to hear you are away from them for good! I plan to but as we always say now is not the time can't deal with to much at the same time. I figure while on the sub. I better just deal with that for now. I am still at 14m.g. today I realize for me I will just have to take it easy. It took several days to feel right just dropping the 2 but 5 months is a pretty long time to have been on it. I will not be smoking the safe one's so I will see if that is what is causing the rash . Take care & God bless

[Charliez]

Just got the news I was waiting for I have an appointment next Wednesday with a new sub. doc. shew what a relief! I was beginning to wonder. It was that same old desperation feeling I had so many times before but now I can relax knowing I have all the time I need to get myself completely clean. Nothing has changed as far as what we are trying to do but the end is not so near. And the urgency has lifted......Thank God!

[Robert_325]

That is good news Charlie. I know you were sweating it .... getting pretty close to deadling date. I'm glad you have that worry off you. Now you can relax and just concentrate on cutting back comfortably without any pressure. Congratulations and God bless!

[HicksvilleNY]

Great news Charlie!!!

for me 2 steps forward one step back.............

i guess its the way i'm going to have to do it for awhile was really happy yesterday about being 6 down,,, so tomorrow i will do better.

been really under a lot of stress here with refinancing the house, major issues with our older daughter, the sub, not a great day today,,, but tomorrow will be!


btw i smoke and knew about the paper but not the other stuff..



see you guys later on, I gotta run for chinese food...lol

[Charliez]

Thanks to both of you! I don't know how to feel sometimes when I get that much pressure off I guess it takes a little while to kick in....Around here it's the oc capital (they call it hillbilly heroin ) & what doc's there are are full up...I feel I was lucky....Talk tomorrow....I am glad I had you all to talk to during this time!

[Robert_325]

Seems like we are all finally getting to better places with this than we were a week ago. That is encouraging to me. Ralph ... I would not freak out over having a hard time maintaining at 6mg down in one day. That is a lot! I know I have not been able to do that ... haven't even tried to. We all have our stressful issues that go with life. Those have to be taken care of. We have to keep this in perspective still taking care of our day to day stuff.

I think we just have to try different things and see what works for us. That is a good thing about the half life. We won't go into real W/D changing up what we are doing from one day to the next. If we go down 2-3 mg one day, then the next day have to go back to where we were to start with, we are still down 1-2mg for the two days. We should look at the overall results, not dwelling on the results of one day. It certainly is easier on us that way. I am for anything that is easier. LOL

I have had a good day. I am about 3mg for the day so far. I will probably take more later after doing very little yesterday. Going to do another 2-3mg I think. Maybe not, will just see. Talk to you guys later.

[joshfarc]

Hey everyone...just decided to join this forum after reading different threads. I'm glad to have found such an active forum of people in the same situation as myself. I have been on suboxone for a little over a year now, taking 8mg morning and night, so 16mg a day. I started at 24mg a day, and don't remember even lowering it from 3 a day to 2. But I am currently thinking I want to start tapering off of it...I feel it changes my personality a bit, causes me to be a bit lazy/depressed...not enough to take any other drugs, lol. Having 15 months clean from any "hard" drugs...I feel that I have no mental addiction to these...which is a big step to getting off of them.

I see an addiction specialist, and here was his plan...let me know what you think...because I am ready to be drug free....100%...no prescriptions or anything.

He tells me the program will take anywhere from 5months-1year.
As of now, its an 8mg in the morning, and 8 mg at night. He wants me to then cut out 2mg, 1/4of a pill at night, so 8mg in morning....6mg at night. He would have me stay on that dose, so 14mg a day, for 3 weeks. So in 3 week intervals....then I would go to 6mg in the morning, 6mg at night......3weeks of that dose....12mg a day. Let me know if you think that this is a solid tapering program....I'd rather it be a bit quicker than that....but I need to function while I taper....college student...at that rate will the physical effects be quite minimal...to where I will sleep decent and be able to continue exercising? I've read different people's horror stories here...from trying to quit this drug to quickly, and I truly think, if you are a recovering addict and know you no longer crave drugs...getting off this medicine through a taper method is quite possible with minimal side effects. Mind over body is key....so anyway...

Glad to be here...hopefully that essay/rambling wasn't to long, and I hope everyone is doing well. I plan on starting my taper saturday(doctors appointment/every 3weeks), and would love to discuss/share anything about .....well anything with you guys.

Where there's a will there's a way

[HicksvilleNY]

well you have come to the right place... I won't speak for everyone , but we are kind of learning as we go.

this is a great little group and i think you will find its very helpful.

welcome aboard


I'm going to try and stay at 16 today, I have been sruggling a bit but confident i will get off this stuff soon

have a great day everyone

[Charliez]

Welcome josh, That's the goal to try & support each other while moving at our own speed to recovery. Sharing our experience's & just being there to genuinely care about one another. It is proven we can gain strength from each other. Good to hear you are in school & doing what you need to make it in life! People can say whatever they want about suboxone but I know for sure (without a doubt) I would not have been able to accomplish the things I have in the last 5 months without it & that's a fact , can not be disputed. So before I get down on myself I need to remind myself of that from time to time. Today I look forward to taking care of business & living my life before the sub. I did not I will confess I was feeling I had been here long enough & I was giving up on life. So today I am looking at my situation for what it is & not so much what I want it to be . Take care & God Bless

[Robert_325]

Welcome Josh. We are happy to have another person with us who is focused on wanting to get off all medications including the Sub. As Ralph and Charlie said, we just share what we are doing with one another and I know it is helping me immensely. Several of us working towards the same goal is much more effective than one person out there by themself.

I have been taking Subutex for about a month, maybe a little longer now. Dr started me at 8mg a day. I would exceed that some occasionally right in the beginning. Seemed 8mg might be a little low at first but glad of it now as I am working to get off this too. Just that much less I have to get rid of.

I found that knocking off 2mg at once was pretty easy in the beginning at a little higher dose. I went to 6mg a day from 8mg. I held that for almost two weeks. Now I am trying to get it down to 4mg. I know I am at a place now where this last 4-5mg is going to be kind of tough. It has been kind of hard to get all the way to 4 for me. That is ok. I will take it slow from this point forward. As long as I can take off something every two-three weeks, at this point, I will be off these things too in a few months anyway. I can live with that.

I hope everyone has a good day today. Talk to you guys later.

[Charliez]

a site I ran across plenty of interesting reading........http://www.erowid.org/pharms/buprenorphine/

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by Charliez

................I put a post out there about having this rash just on my lower legs and lower arms mainly & I thought it was or must be from the sub. only thing it took like a month or more before it showed & have saw where a reaction from meds will usually show around 1 week or so but this took a little longer...................

Charlie ... I was reading on www.webmd.com about Subutex and Suboxone and ran across information that said a rash was a possible side effect of both medications.

If you go to webmd.com and hit Suboxone, it will come up. Click on the first link .... "Drug results for Suboxone." Then just click on side effects and you will see what I read. It did not sound like a potentially fatal reaction or anything, but it is listed. All they did was mention it, did not go off into a long drawn out deal. It did not say you should immediately stop taking it, but did say you should tell your doctor. Just wanted to pass that along to you. You might want to read it and decide what to do for yourself. Good luck!

[Charliez]

Thanks Robert, I will check it out. Man I feel better today. I was sweating it pretty bad there for a couple of weeks I called there today to see what all I should bring & to confirm & got more good news she said they would bill my insurance & that I will only need to pay the copay which is around ten bucks. God answered me once again. I heard this older fellow testify at church that God had never let him down. You guys know I had this coming up & that time was closing in on me I had asked for help with my situation ,all I asked was for everything to turn out alright. I did this several times . I wanted to tell you all about my experience maybe it will help someone else .All you have to do is ask. Take care!

[HicksvilleNY]

Thanks for the link Charlie ,, interesting... also some scary stuff in there too.

all the more reason to get off of this stuff..

I'm back at 16 2 days in a row, and feel like i could use more,,,,, this is giving me a run for my money man,,,i really need to buckle down here and get my head in the right state to give it another push,,,,, i'm am feeling desperate,panicky and afraid,,,,

how did i get in this mess

[Robert_325]

We are all in the same place Ralph pretty much. I may be at a lower amount than you, but I am struggling at that amount just like you are at your amount. The only difference in us is that my dr started me at a lower dose than yours did you. Had I been started at 16mg like you I would be flip flopping around trying to reduce at 16mg instead of trying to get to 4mg like I am. I am fighting trying to get down lower than the 5-6mg level I have been hanging at. I was just lucky with my original dose that was prescribed.

We are all doing very well I think. The main thing is that we are all focused on reducing the amounts we are currently taking. That is what is important, that we continue to do the best we can and we will be successful. I know we will. Hang in there guys. God bless!

[HicksvilleNY]

is it just me or is there a sort of speed effect to this stuff?

i know when i take it at work I really work fast...hmmm

anyway I agree with you, its just hard at times for me,
as I'm sure it is on everyone.....


lets see what tomorrow brings... one day at a time they say...

I just feel a sense fo urgency, i guess I need to slow down and do it the right way, I'm again planing on 16 again tomorrow that way I have friday and the weekend coming up. I seem to do better then,

Thank god I have you guys to talk to, otherwise I would go nuts.

see you guys tomorrow, have a great night!

[Charliez]

You sound good though Ralph like maybe you felt better about everything today. That's why I really liked perks & oc's for the super energy plus no pain & the sub does me the same way ( but not so well with pain ) just like with those if I lay around I can do that all day and just be lazy & feel as though I have no energy but if I really get started on something & get the blood pumping look out I don't know when to stop. But the full opiates eventually quit doing that & I just felt bad all the time they say that is what happens ,then you just need them to keep from getting sick . I wonder if the sub would be the same ? Probably so. I remember what the therapist said though , I told him about wanting to get off the sub & he said I am only half way through with repairing the damage done by abuse-but it is my choice he says quiting now would be harder than waiting . I don't know about that but I have never dealt with something that supposedly repairs damage. It's hard to believe much because everyone has done this so much differently. I would rather just get away from it & I told him that. He said quiting now would be about 50% as much wd as it would have been before taking the sub. don't make much sense to me really.....seems the longer one is on anything the harder it would be to stop. Take it easy Robert talk tomorrow...God Bless all!

[Robert_325]

Hey guys! You should look on the Featured Drugs forum. There is a JERK on there ... toyotaluver2000 who is trying to sell drugs to people. I can't believe it. Would like to choke his sorry ass!

He was on there. Cool! Drugs.com deleted all of his posts and banned him. What a piece of garbage!