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Short term treatment of suboxone ???
  1. #1
    Flash11 is offline New Member
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    Default Short term treatment of suboxone ???

    I'm a veteran hydrocodone user - originally prescribed 10 years ago and have abused on / off for about 9 years. Using anywhere from 90mg to 200mg a day.

    I've successfully detox'd once about 5 years ago going cold turkey when I was only taking about 50mg/day. That was the worst 72 hours of my life (as I am sure some of u unfortunately know)

    I have decided to take the leap.

    My questions are: suboxone is a combination drug - and opiod agonist buprenorphine AND a narcotic blocker called naloxone (Narcan). I have a pretty decent knowledge of pharmacology so here's what I understand - the opiod in subox. Is used to bind to my receptors in place of the hydro. The narcan in subox will make any hydro I take not have any effect to me (no buzz).

    Here's where I'm stumped - narcan is also used in hospital settings when patients receive too many narcotics - it binds to the narcotic and pulls it out of the patient to help improve their respiratory status. So if I just take subox over only 3 or 4 days, wont it rapidly just pull the hydro out of my system, and the opus in subox would lighten the pain of not having the hydro?

    I've read almost 100 threads and statements all over the web saying people have been on suboxone for months and months or YEARS and are having a hard time detoxing from it - and it's half-life is 8 times longer than hydro - so detox time is much longer! ( hydro Halflife is a couple hours - subox is 20+ hours).

    Has anyone tried what im about to propose? What if you take a small amount of suboxone (4-8 mg a day for only 3 days)??

    What would happen on the 4th day? Would I be detoxing off hydro then? I would have been clean from hydro for 96 hours (I was done detoxing off hydro after 72 hours last time) (also the narcan in the subox pulled it put of my blood/body)

    Or would I be detoxing off suboxone? Would I be detoxing off suboxone if I only took it for 3 days?

    What Im trying to ask is: has anyone used suboxone for only 3 days to detox of hydro? And what happened after? Was the detox pain worse? Any recommendations?

  2. #2
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    The half life of subs can be up to 72 hours. If you can taper off the hydros and cold turkey that is always best. An opiate detox actually lasts longer than three days. You usually will START feeling a little better about day four or five but the actual detox is a good week to ten days.

    And it's the buprenorphine that blocks the opiate. The naloxone is only there for people who use drugs IV to put them into precipitated w/d as a deterent to abusing the subs. If you don't shoot drugs subutex would be a better option than suboxone as it is pure buprenorphine ONLY (no naloxone at all) and also available in a very inexpensive generic.

    I don't suggest what you're contemplating. Relapse ratio will be very high doing that. The choice is yours. If I can help you let me know. God bless.
    Last edited by Robert_325; 04-01-2011 at 06:05 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  3. #3
    Flash11 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    The half life of subs can be up to 72 hours. If you can taper off the hydros and cold turkey that is always best. An opiate detox actually lasts longer than three days. You usually will START feeling a little better about day four or five but the actual detox is a good week to ten days.

    And it's the buprenorphine that blocks the opiate. The naloxone is only there for people who use drugs IV to put them into precipitated w/d as a deterent to abusing the subs. If you don't shoot drugs subutex would be a better option than suboxone as it is pure buprenorphine ONLY (no naloxone at all) and also available in a very inexpensive generic.

    I don't suggest what you're contemplating. Relapse ratio will be very high doing that. The choice is yours. If I can help you let me know. God bless.
    I guess I was looking for an easy out and a more gentle w/d. I've tried 4 or 5 times to detox and was only successful once 5 years ago (first time I ever tried to) and it peeked on day 3 --- then it was all downhill and felt better. I think everyone if different and their timeframe is different. I have a fast metabolism and thence that had something to do with it.

    Unfortunately, I was loaned three 8mg suboxone and thought I'd try the method I proposed already beginning last night. Hell, I've tried everything.

    I took my last hydro yesterday at lunch. A began feeling bad after work last night and took 4mg before bed to sleep. Still had night sweats but was able to sleep.

    I took 8mg today at 1pm. I plan to take 4mg tomorrow, 4mg Sunday, and 2mg mon, 1mg tuesday and Wednesday.

    So do you think Thursday and Friday and continuing on to the weekend I'll be detoxing? And detoxing off suboxone? Since the half-life is longer, the detox will be longer .... But will it be as painful?

    I read where suboxone is used short term only over 1 week and tapered down (there's something on ehow.com) for opiate detox

  4. #4
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash11 View Post
    I guess I was looking for an easy out and a more gentle w/d. I've tried 4 or 5 times to detox and was only successful once 5 years ago (first time I ever tried to) and it peeked on day 3 --- then it was all downhill and felt better. I think everyone if different and their timeframe is different. I have a fast metabolism and thence that had something to do with it.

    Unfortunately, I was loaned three 8mg suboxone and thought I'd try the method I proposed already beginning last night. Hell, I've tried everything.

    I took my last hydro yesterday at lunch. A began feeling bad after work last night and took 4mg before bed to sleep. Still had night sweats but was able to sleep.

    I took 8mg today at 1pm. I plan to take 4mg tomorrow, 4mg Sunday, and 2mg mon, 1mg tuesday and Wednesday.

    So do you think Thursday and Friday and continuing on to the weekend I'll be detoxing? And detoxing off suboxone? Since the half-life is longer, the detox will be longer .... But will it be as painful?

    I read where suboxone is used short term only over 1 week and tapered down (there's something on ehow.com) for opiate detox



    If you can pull it off more power to you. The process I've suggested and used here for years lasts about six to eight weeks. It's been really successful and a slow but effective taper. Probably a thousand people have gotten clean with it.

    Your brain needs a little time for the receptors to heal up and start producing endorphines properly again for a good chance at success STAYING clean. Lots of people get clean but staying that way is a different deal. What is six weeks after you've been using ten years? It's nothing! Some people here have done short term detoxes and some are still clean, some have obviously relapsed.

    Give it a shot and see how it works for you. If you have problems here is a link to the system I have used so long on this forum. I did this myself and have shared what worked for me. After taking over 1000mg of oxy a day for years (was taking over 100 pills a day for some time) and using opiates 35 years I've been clean 9 years almost now. Here is the link. Check it out. God bless..

    http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  5. #5
    Flash11 is offline New Member
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    Thanks for the link! I read the whole thing - I guess I need to be careful with the half life aspect. I'm at the point where I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. Will I relapse? I don't know. I sure don't plan on it this time. I am perfectly fine with having w/d symptoms - I just wanted something to look forward to or motivate me to think I can do it - so I'm going to attempt this 1 week taper method and if I start to hurt, so be it.

    I'm getting a script for wellbutrin today too. And multivitamins. Any other supplements u recommend? I've heard of detox clinics giving "amino acids". Any recommendations?

  6. #6
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash11 View Post
    Thanks for the link! I read the whole thing - I guess I need to be careful with the half life aspect. I'm at the point where I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. Will I relapse? I don't know. I sure don't plan on it this time. I am perfectly fine with having w/d symptoms - I just wanted something to look forward to or motivate me to think I can do it - so I'm going to attempt this 1 week taper method and if I start to hurt, so be it.

    I'm getting a script for wellbutrin today too. And multivitamins. Any other supplements u recommend? I've heard of detox clinics giving "amino acids". Any recommendations?




    Get some L-Tyrosine (500mg) and vitamin B-6 to help with body absorption. You may have to go to a vitamin store. You can take about 1000mg easily a day of the L-Tyrosine. It's good stuff.. kava is good too for anxiety. And strangely enough Excedrin Migraine works wonders for headaches. Good luck.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  7. #7
    Flash11 is offline New Member
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    I've now got some wellbutrin and B6. Haven't taken any sub since yesterday morning cause I don't feel bad (yet)

    I'm pretty excited so far - but I know it's prob gonna go south quick.

    Anyone know anything about B12 ?

  8. #8
    ChrisNev is offline Junior Member
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    *edit*:

    It looks like you're not considering suboxone? if so just disregard what i've said about it



    I was addicted to hydrocodone for about 10 years too. I've kicked it cold turkey, relapsed, and went on suboxone treatment.

    My opinion, is that I regret going on suboxone. It's an addictive narcotic that had MUCH worse withdrawal than hydrocodone, because it's more powerful and has a much longer half life. In the end I had wasted a lot of time and money on the treatment, and I just dug myself deeper.

    The way I see it, suboxone should only be used as a methadone alternative, and as a means to get >>>>>> addicts off the needle, and out of jail. Suboxone to treat vicodin, tramadol, and oxycodone? Way overkill.

    And for the people raving about suboxone? Ask them if they are off the drug, and for how long. Very few of them are.

    I know cold turkey is hard, and a lot of people cant stick to tapering schedules. My advice to you is to use the thomas recipe. And if you have the means, get something like clonidine, neurontin, or trazodone, to help with the symptoms.

    Currently im clean and sober, and off hydrocodone. I took a lot of hot baths, drank a lot of liquid immodium, forced myself to eat well and drink a lot of water, and I made it out okay.
    Last edited by ChrisNev; 04-02-2011 at 04:36 PM.

  9. #9
    firahs75 is offline Junior Member
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    OP,

    I would do Robert325's taper. Make sure you induct at the lowest possible dose.

    My original sub doc got me all messed up. He inducted me at 12mg for a 160mg a day oxy habit! Now, fast forward 2 years and I am hooked on suboxone. Wish I had read about Robert's taper before going into sub therapy.

    Recently, I slowly tapered down until I was stable at 0.5mg. I tried jumping off and used Kratom 3 times a day for withdrawals. The Kratom completely eliminated withdrawal symptoms and even gave me energy, then when the Kratom ran out 3 weeks later, the suboxone withdrawals were still there! I was like WTF? How long does this garbage last? Had to jump back on the suboxone train at 1mg.

    Now I have jumped off again at 1mg and I am taking ~30mg of hydrocodone a day to keep withdrawal at bay. I am 2.5 weeks off subs. I am hoping I can taper down the hydro and get past the sub withdrawal, and then detox for a couple of days from the hydros, taking kratom as needed. Bottom line, DON'T TAKE SUBS FOR MORE THAN 2 WEEKS OR SO, or you'll be hooked.

  10. #10
    firahs75 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisNev View Post
    *edit*:

    It looks like you're not considering suboxone? if so just disregard what i've said about it



    I was addicted to hydrocodone for about 10 years too. I've kicked it cold turkey, relapsed, and went on suboxone treatment.

    My opinion, is that I regret going on suboxone. It's an addictive narcotic that had MUCH worse withdrawal than hydrocodone, because it's more powerful and has a much longer half life. In the end I had wasted a lot of time and money on the treatment, and I just dug myself deeper.

    The way I see it, suboxone should only be used as a methadone alternative, and as a means to get >>>>>> addicts off the needle, and out of jail. Suboxone to treat vicodin, tramadol, and oxycodone? Way overkill.

    And for the people raving about suboxone? Ask them if they are off the drug, and for how long. Very few of them are.

    I know cold turkey is hard, and a lot of people cant stick to tapering schedules. My advice to you is to use the thomas recipe. And if you have the means, get something like clonidine, neurontin, or trazodone, to help with the symptoms.

    Currently im clean and sober, and off hydrocodone. I took a lot of hot baths, drank a lot of liquid immodium, forced myself to eat well and drink a lot of water, and I made it out okay.
    Chris,

    Did you jump back to hydro from sub and then just detox from hydro? I just find the length and intensity of sub withdrawal to be unbearable (I have tried to quit at 2 mg, 1mg, and 0.5 mg).

  11. #11
    SuzieOf is offline Member
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    I am currently on day 7 after having jumped off at 1mg. Yesterday I thought I was going to die and had to take a half of hydrocodone or 5mg. and a hot bath. I almost reached for the subs because it was the worst I felt so far and I didn't think I could go on but I kept thinking of the 6 days that I have done and I pushed the bottle away. I managed to get some sleep last night for the first time.. took 1/2 a valium but woke up every two hours and had to jump out of bed each time. I wake up to horrible leg pains but as soon as I get up it feels better. It is a struggle and I wish I had found Robert's plan before I jumped but I'm determined to see how my body feels naturally after all these years on some form of opiate. I am 62 and have chronic pain issues but this forum is a God send and I will continue. I actually got several hours of sleep last night and when I woke up I had more energy than I have in a long time so I know I made the right decision. Good luck to both of you.

  12. #12
    SuzieOf is offline Member
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    Flash - it's too late now but if I had seen your thread before I would have advised that if you are going to do this then wait until you were in hydro withdrawal and then take as little as possible of sub. like .5 mg. that would be cutting an 8mg. pill into fourths and then one of the fourths in half and then half again. You would be so surprised at how little it takes to control hydro w/d's. You could always take another .5 if needed. Then you could taper off that and you wouldn't have so much sub in your system. I know it's too late but thought I would put this here in case someone else is thinking of doing what you did. You don't know how much sub you will need unless you are in withdrawal.

  13. #13
    quitwhining is offline New Member
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    You people are ridiculous. I smoked 20 30mg oxycodones a day for years and it never took me more than a week to get through withdrawals whether I did it cold turkey which is a nightmare or the preferred method of taking suboxone for 3-4 days. All you need to do is wait about 18-24 hours since the last time you smoked and take about 4 mg of suboxone a day for the first 3-4 days, you will feel a bit anxious and have cravings for a few more days after that but then ur done. Im telling you its all in ur head and being on suboxone long term is completely unecessary its all part of the health industry making more money off you I dont care what your doctor is telling you. I've done this numerous times and been clean for weeks/months. I relapsed many times sure but its not because I wasn't back to 100% normal because trust me after the week of very mild withdrawals symptoms thanks to the suboxone and another week or so of mild depression you will be fine. Anyone who says otherwise is just making excuses for themselves. Thats what drug addicts do we make excuses to stay on drug whether we think we want to get clean or not. Its all about willpower and realizing its all in ur head, youve programmed ur self to think this way for however many years its hard to adapt to being sober I get it. I'm not trying to piss anyone off here or put you down this is honestly the best advice I could give anyone to get clean.

  14. #14
    numbOne is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by quitwhining View Post
    You people are ridiculous. I smoked 20 30mg oxycodones a day for years and it never took me more than a week to get through withdrawals whether I did it cold turkey which is a nightmare or the preferred method of taking suboxone for 3-4 days. All you need to do is wait about 18-24 hours since the last time you smoked and take about 4 mg of suboxone a day for the first 3-4 days, you will feel a bit anxious and have cravings for a few more days after that but then ur done. Im telling you its all in ur head and being on suboxone long term is completely unecessary its all part of the health industry making more money off you I dont care what your doctor is telling you. I've done this numerous times and been clean for weeks/months. I relapsed many times sure but its not because I wasn't back to 100% normal because trust me after the week of very mild withdrawals symptoms thanks to the suboxone and another week or so of mild depression you will be fine. Anyone who says otherwise is just making excuses for themselves. Thats what drug addicts do we make excuses to stay on drug whether we think we want to get clean or not. Its all about willpower and realizing its all in ur head, youve programmed ur self to think this way for however many years its hard to adapt to being sober I get it. I'm not trying to piss anyone off here or put you down this is honestly the best advice I could give anyone to get clean.
    Quitwhining, don't stir the pot. Your post is paradoxical: First you call everyone rediculous then close by saying you don't want to piss anyone off?

    Although there is some truth to what you write, and we are all of course different - some credibility is immediately lost in your post when you state "i relapsed many times." Most people here are trying to get off and stay off. Our bodies and minds need time to heal and it has been proven time and time again that the BEST chance of success with that is a slow and steady taper.

    You might consider alternatives if you choose to live clean. Best of luck to you and PLEASE be careful with the advice you give on here. Your troubles with addiction may not have progressed to a level where you can fully appreciate the power of this disease. Hopefully it never does, in the meantime please eductae yourself on how it has impacted other lives.
    Kfp1422 likes this.

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