[LISA GIRL]

All these questions.. I guess it just depends on the individual and how much willpower you have. Tapering can work well for some if you are on a strict schedule and are very determined. Some who try find out that they are just not able to limit themselves and are best to go cold turkey or with an aid like suboxone...

[patmamma]

I feel so horrible. I am in a lot of pain, and am sleeping uncontrollably. I have never broken a bone, (other than the teeth accident), and I just feel sick.[xx(]

I went out to lunch with my visiting grandparents and parents today, and I am exhausted. I just feel like I have been hit by a truck. Worst of all, these pills make things really back up, (sorry to be gross), so I am downing prune juice and a full on fiber diet. Yuk! I wanted to try and swim laps and lift weights and do some stomach excersizes tomorrow, then go to work, but I am totally sure i would be overdoing it and right back in bed at the end of the day feeling like ****! I am the worst patient! Just an update on the pills. I have still not finished my original bottle of 20 percocet 5's, and that is really saying something as I am up every four hours in the night. I feel in control for now, so we shall see. I am still facing the dental surgery next week, so I will really need you all to keep my hopes up for not getting used to the ease of pain relief from the pills, and to try and be somewhat strong. I do have an extra percription for 20 more perc. 5's, but I am hoping I wont need them.

Pray for my healing! I could sure use it!
Patmamma

[PaulRemski777]

DOGGY, Been on hydrocodone for 16 yrs...just went thru DETOX now 24 days dry..all legally prescribed rxs ...just want to help.

She needs to get help inpatient or outpatient,,under drs care.

She will need....

Clonodine Patches or Pills RX come in 0.1 mg 0.2 mg 0.3 mg patches.
and different doses of pills...MAX DAILY DOSE is 2.4 mg.
Clonodine is really a blood pressure med but has ancillary benefits with opiate withdrawal.

How much hydro and what strength is she on 5/500 7.5 or 10/325s
and how many a day is she taking???

Diazapam is also used to help a person OFF hydro and other opiate pain killers. Low doses of diazapam (valium) 5 mg or 10 mg will take the edge off on detox.

If she goes inpatient...take her to an ER Room of a hospital that has a DETOX unit...but make sure she knows what protocols they will follow...STEP DOWN or COLD turkey. I prefer step down..but most detox units use cold turkey protocols and hype the valium and clonodine. DO NOT GO ON A WEEKEND FOR DETOX services inpatient.

They will not give u the dr. attention she needs.

Email with other questions. God will bless you for helping your friend get off these drugs.

PaulRemski@twcny.rr.com [)]

Paul Remski; 16 yrs chronic pain patient; detox post 24 days+;

[nymommy]

allthesequestions...regarding your question about tapering...having spoke to a therapist..i've been told that if you have an "addict" personality, tapering will never work.however.....if you just picked up a bad habit, that lets say, got out of control...it may work...bottom line is if your chemically wired as an addict ( i know, harsh word) tapering is not an option.......but believe it or not, cold turkey is....in other words, having the pills in your reach, you probably wouldnt be able to control yourself........ps...i tried tapering 2 x........currently on sub...so far so good.............you will get alot of support here..i know i have

[LISA GIRL]

Paul~ Just wanted to say thanks for the great post. Doggy posted her question over two years ago and this thread has been goin' ever since! Just thought you should know so you don't expect a response to your questions to him or her. You probably didn't notice that the year on her post was 04..

Even if Doggy doesn't see it, you provided a lof of valuable information for those looking to end their addiction.

Thank you for sharing the info and congrats on your 24 days! Hope you stick around. We have a great "family" here. Lots of great people to share and encourage

Lisa

[chrish1]

Sparky, you are "getting it." Admitting the true nature of our problem and all of the lies associated with it is a step in the right direction. It becomes easy for us to lie to ourselves. Once we start telling ourselves the truth we begin to recover. I've found that recovering addicts with some good clean time are generally more honest than the "normal" people out there since overcoming addiction requires total self honesty. That is not saying that normal people are bad, it is just that recovring addicts really have no choice but to work on self honesty in order to stay clean and recover.

Everyone, keep fighting the good fight! Desire will turn to reality as long as we don't give up.

Chrish

Clean Date: 10/11/05

Drugs are a big lie. Don't believe the lie.

***HOW TO FIND LOCAL NA MEETINGS****

http://www.na.org/links-toc.htm

[unclenasty93]

Patmamma,

When a body is in severe pain and recovering from an injury or surgery, IT NEEDS TO BE PROPERLY MEDICATED. You could actually be doing harm to yourself by not aggresively managing your pain. It is a fact that you will heal faster and better if you keep the pain to a minimum. We all understand why you are reluctant to use the narcotics, but if you use the meds properly and only while the pain is intense, you will be fine. For now though, give yourself a break. You NEED to control that pain. I broke my leg badly snowboarding once, the pain was unreal. Ice Ice Ice. I feel for ya, all my best mike.

[AmyBreeze]

I started Suboxone last night, and a few other meds he put me on, but my question is has anyone that has been on the program been "required" to attend a lot of meetings? I have to go to one on Monday nights and then this 12 meetings in 12 days with NAA. I don't mind, I am going to go, hopefully, it'll help. But was just wondering if others had to do this. My doc says it's a federal requirement??

So far suboxone is good. Slept well last night. I just have problems with the saliva. He says you need to keep as much of the med in your mouth that you can because it won't work in your stomach. Also, will make you sick.

My one concern is he says is I may be on this program 6-9 months. I'm on 8 mgs a day. I take 2mg 4x's a day which is OK I guess.

It's time for work.

Thanks for listening everyone!

Amy [)]

[patmamma]

Unclenastly, Thanks for the support. I still have feelings of guilt associated with the way I used to "medicate". I actually slept withoout any meds except for advil last night, I was EXHAUSTED! I still feel ragged. My knee is swollen, and I felt more pain this morning. I am almmost to the end of my perscription, so I am trying to be honest to myself whether the pain is intense enough to merit getting the next bottle redeemed.

Thanks for all of your support!
Patmamma

[tinkers]

Amy,

Glad that the sub is working for you about the 6 - 9 months yes it could take that long the key in my opinion is to not rush things get use to not take any more pain pills and use the support systems in place I dont know if it is a fed mandate or not my doctor dont require it but they do say that sub alone with out any support might not work long term I use this board and church as my support na did'ent work for me good luck wish you the best.

Patmamma,

How are you? pain meds are here for pain ie broken bones but some of us like to abuse them and then we becoe pill heads or junkies just take them if you need to and get rid of them when your done hope it works out.

Suboxone works give it a chance!

[AmyBreeze]

quote:Originally posted by nymommy

amy..check in w/ us tomorrow....any questions..i'll be here

Thank you NY! So far so good. I am SOOOoooooooo tired though. Is this normal? I slept fine, but I'm at work trying like crazy not to fall asleep at my desk! Otherwise physically I am fine, it's just the mental thing of wanting a pill....not a craving, not at all, which is GREAT, but just habit.....

Have a GREAT day all. Thanks for caring!!!

Amy

[AmyBreeze]

quote:Originally posted by tinkers



Suboxone works give it a chance!

tinkers, your quote is SO on the money.....Suboxone DOES work!

[AmyBreeze]

quote:Originally posted by PaulRemski777



Clonodine Patches or Pills RX come in 0.1 mg 0.2 mg 0.3 mg patches.
and different doses of pills...MAX DAILY DOSE is 2.4 mg.
Clonodine is really a blood pressure med but has ancillary benefits with opiate withdrawal.

My doctor added this med along with my sub. Hopefully, it'll aide the process too. Just my two cents worth.

Amy

[LISA GIRL]

Amy.. THe only time i felt tired on the sub was when I had taken too much I think... I also felt kind of "off" I really need to work on my scheduled dosing as I said on the other thread. This is very important. Otherwise like we both agreed, it is just reinforcing the
"reach for a pill" mentality. Hope you have a great day. Don't worry if you feel a little weird the first few days.. It's normal..Actually I felt "high" but I think it was still the percocet leaving my system.. I really did it up before I started the sub....

[allthesequestions]

thanks so much for the answers everyone! Wow there is a lot of support here.

As far as the weaning off versus cold turkey.... I also wanted to know if it is better as far as the withdrawals. I realize will power is involved. But, if you have decent willpower and you really believe you can taper... is that better as far as withdrawals? I have noticed tapering that I still have withdrawals (anxiety, anxious, depression) or should I just take the remaining pills I have and go off cold turkey once I am out? Will the withdrawals be the same intensity as with tapering or will they be worse if I don't taper?

[AmyBreeze]

quote:Originally posted by LISA GIRL

Amy.. THe only time i felt tired on the sub was when I had taken too much I think... I also felt kind of "off" I really need to work on my scheduled dosing as I said on the other thread. This is very important. Otherwise like we both agreed, it is just reinforcing the
"reach for a pill" mentality. Hope you have a great day. Don't worry if you feel a little weird the first few days.. It's normal..Actually I felt "high" but I think it was still the percocet leaving my system.. I really did it up before I started the sub....

Thanks Lisa, I am sure you are right. I took my dose 3 hours early and now regret it! I will for sure not do that again and wait until I am home to take my last two doses. One neat thing about this doctor, well I guess it's neat is you have to bring your meds with you at each visit to make sure you're taking it right. I think that's a good thing, but that's me.

Thanks again,

Amy

[nymommy]

amy ..so glad its going well! kinda amazing the not craving thing uh? my doc is insistent that i see a therapist, so i am...it is NOT a law, at least not in NY....clonidine is something my doc will be putting me on once i start the sub taper, its suppose to help w/ any withdrawel symptons.... keep us posted~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ALLTHESEQUESTIONS~~~if you decide to go cold turkey try to get some xanax/valium..also a sleep aid..from what i read restless legs could keep you up @ nite~kaidog can give you some good advice w/ cold turkey questions

[sparky]

Amy......I am sorry but I have disagree with your concern about being on suboxone 6 -9 months....this is my opinion and what worked for me....and I got my info and guidance from a rehab clinic....If he means you should stay in the program of NA or meetings for support...yes thats a good idea....but if you are suggesting to stay on suboxone that long....you will be addicted to suboxone...sorry...I know some people have totally different ideas....maybe denial...not sure of each individual situation....but in most cases when a person was abusing opiates...its best to wean off suboxone ASAP...I weaned within 30 days.......yeh....I wanted more....but my support told me NO......don't trade addiction for addiction.....in the name of "I quit my Drug of choice".....just bite the bullet and get your addiction nipped......forever.....

[AmyBreeze]

quote:Originally posted by nymommy

amy ..so glad its going well! kinda amazing the not craving thing uh? my doc is insistent that i see a therapist, so i am...it is NOT a law, at least not in NY....clonidine is something my doc will be putting me on once i start the sub taper, its suppose to help w/ any withdrawel symptons.... keep us posted~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ALLTHESEQUESTIONS~~~if you decide to go cold turkey try to get some xanax/valium..also a sleep aid..from what i read restless legs could keep you up @ nite~kaidog can give you some good advice w/ cold turkey questions

Yeah, it's INCREDIBLE NOT to have the cravings OR the very deep depression that was always my first withdrawl symptom. Kinda down, but nothing like it would be.

Life is good....I'm getting this under control, now just have to be patient for the rest to fall there. *LOL*

Back to work....

Amy

[sparky]

Chrish1.....thanks for noticing....sometimes I feel like I am writing in a journal to myself.....this all applies to me as well....I agree coming clean is a process of total self honesty...and if you want to be free from the addiction/evil/prison/lies/self loathing/lack luster....etc....lifestyle...you have to be honest....the addictions little voice will try to mess you up but you/we/I can stay the course...daily its growth and a lesson/trial in character building...do we want to be better people, have better relationships,love, self worth....its all about knowing where we stand as an ADDICT.

Kudos to you as well....you have come a long way also

[Kaidog]

quote:Originally posted by allthesequestions

thanks so much for the answers everyone! Wow there is a lot of support here.

As far as the weaning off versus cold turkey.... I also wanted to know if it is better as far as the withdrawals. I realize will power is involved. But, if you have decent willpower and you really believe you can taper... is that better as far as withdrawals? I have noticed tapering that I still have withdrawals (anxiety, anxious, depression) or should I just take the remaining pills I have and go off cold turkey once I am out? Will the withdrawals be the same intensity as with tapering or will they be worse if I don't taper?

allthesequestions:

Personally, I'm a big believer in tapering. The degree and magnitude of withdrawals is directly proportional to the amount of hydrocodine one is taking and the length of time they have been taking them. Most people who attempt to taper, taper way, way too quickly. A good rule-of-thumb is to limit one's taper to 10% reduction per week.

As an example, if someone is taking 10 hydros per day and cuts-back to 6/day, that's a whopping 40% reduction............... which your body will obviously object to. I have heard doctors use the phrase of "The lower, the slower." Meaning the lower one gets, the slower the reduction should be.

Now............. I say all this even though I cut back rather dramatically and eventually went cold turkey. Any reduction before quiting all-together will absolutely reduce the magnitude of the withdrawals.


Clean Date = 09/12/06

[allthesequestions]

thanks Kaidog! they said you were the one to ask about this stuff. I really appreciate you responding.

I was taking about 8 darvo's a day.... I tapered to about 4 a day for 2 days, then I went to 2 a day for 2 days, now I am down to one a day. Today I took one, and tomorrow I will have one left. That is all I have remaining, so I don't want any refills. I WILL NOT GET ONE EITHER. THIS IS IT FOR ME. I have quit before and then for some reason or another my refill is due or something and I just end up with another bottle. But, NOT this time.

Does my taper plan sound good? I am already experiencing some effects as I mentioned before. Low energy, depression, anxiety. No leg tremors or night sweats at all. On Friday when I have NO pills left are my withdrawals going to be even worse, even though I have tapered? Or will I have gotten the majority of the physical w/d's out of my system and it will not be so bad then?

Sorry for all the questions... I am just scared and NO ONE knows about this.

[sparky]

Allthequestions........my addiction was a secret as well........8 a day does not seem to excessive amount to wean from....have you ever exceeded that amount.....and why do you quit and keep getting more...is it because you can't deal with the w/d?....how long have you been taking the pills....if you have tried and tried without success to either quit or taper....you may need professional help....suboxone really works....its only a segway drug ....meant only to be taken for a short period of time to get you off your drug of choice....it really works....but it is also a very strong opiate in itself....so its job is to get you off your drugs without severe side effects and to get you out of the obsessing pill taking habit...Best to you.........

[tinkers]

hi

I hate to sound like all doom and gloom but I to have tryed the taper many times and they all end the same in w/d you cant avoid it there is no such thing and I have tryed them all you play you pay w/d will happen if you are addicted, suboxone is the only thing that I have used that has stoped me from going through full blow w/d and also kept me from going back to the narcs sorry to say that but its true and i dont think any one can say any different the end result will be w/d

[Kaidog]

allthesequestions:

Once you have gone cold turkey, there is little doubt that the withdrawals will become more severe. Having said that, given your current taper, you are probably already in withdrawals so as we've discussed previously, they will be less than if you had gone from 8/day to zero without any transition.

You can help yourself by getting some comfort drugs to help with the side effects of withdrawal. They are:

1. Imodium to help with the trips to the little boy's room.
2. Something to help with sleep.
3. A good multi-vitamin. (No Flintstone Vitamins)
4. A B-complex vitamin, (for increased energy).
5. Clonodine (a blood-pressure medication) helps with withdrawals. It is usually prescribed in a patch (Catapress), worn on the upper arm.
6. Although I've never tried it, I am told that Valium helps as well. I didn't attempt using it as I'm too aware of my addictive nature and was afraid of liking it too much.

Remember, cold turkey can be done but it is difficult. You will generally feel like s**t for 3 or 4 days, will have difficulty sleeping and will probably experience restless legs (at night) and maybe even night sweats.

Always keep in mind that it will get better! After day 3 or 4 or 5, you should feel better each day. Although you'll feel pretty crumy for a spell, know that it will pass.

Lastly, if you stumble and relapse, know that it does happen. There are some who just can't do the cold turkey thing and there are others, like chrish, myself and others, who fed on the discomfort and realized that they were engaged in a fight for our very souls.

If the cold turkey thing proves to be too difficult, consider the suboxane. As I'm sure you've read here, there are many, many people who have had their lives transformed and restored to them by using it.

Either way, please keep us posted as to your progress.

We are all cheering for you.



Clean Date = 09/12/06

[Kaidog]

And where is my lead-paint baby Angela???????????????????????

Clean Date = 09/12/06

[patmamma]

Hi everyone!
I am on day 3 of having to take pain meds for my broken leg. I am taking about 5 a day, (because of the night time dosage, when I wake up in pain). I am being careful, of course, but I was wondering how long you take these nasty things before you will have to go through withdrawls when you stop? I am almost out, and I think I will just switch to advil when they are gone. Prob. tomorrow afternoon.

Then, next week, I have dental surgery from hell, and will be in pain for 3-5 days. So then we get back on the pills and start all over again.

What do you all think about the time it takes to have physical w/d? You know I am a cold turkey girl, I really dont care about the pills, I dont want to take them until I have to, and I dont think i am really mentally addicted, (denial?) I just worry about the physical part.

[chrish1]

Kaidog / Sparky - Keep spreading the message; the message of hope.

Chrish

Clean Date: 10/11/05

Drugs are a big lie. Don't believe the lie.

***HOW TO FIND LOCAL NA MEETINGS****

http://www.na.org/links-toc.htm

[AmyBreeze]

quote:Originally posted by Kaidog

allthesequestions:
5. Clonodine (a blood-pressure medication) helps with withdrawals. It is usually prescribed in a patch (Catapress), worn on the upper arm.

If the cold turkey thing proves to be too difficult, consider the suboxane. As I'm sure you've read here, there are many, many people who have had their lives transformed and restored to them by using it.

Either way, please keep us posted as to your progress.

We are all cheering for you.

Clean Date = 09/12/06

Kaidog, I am on suboxone and two other meds for my treatment, one being clonodine. I know if you take too much, well I've heard anyway, of suboxone you get sleepy, but I am finding when I add my clonodine, I get REAL sleepy. I'm can take it up to 4 times a day, but will only take now in the evenings because I didn't think I'd make it through work yesterday without crashing at my desk. Last night took it at bedtime and was out like a light. I takeit in pill form. ANYWAY, was wondering if it made you tired? I am going to talk to my doctor today about maybe my dose of sub is too high. I take 2MG 4x's a day.

Also, what is anyone's opinion on NOT taking the sub if you don't feel like you need it. I've only been on it 24 hours, but feel great. I don't want to stop completely, but thought about taking it less often than the four times????? Will ask dr that too, but wanted to know someone on the boards thoughts. Everyone on here has been such a lifesaver.

So for the rambling it's early and sorry for any typos. In a hurry to get ready for work.

Have a GREAT day!!!! []

Amy

[tinkers]

Amy,

Glad to hear that you are doing so well. As for stoping or decressing your sub it is probly the only thing keeping you feeling good I (opinion) would not stop but take less I personaly lowered my dose from 3 8mg a day too 1-.5 a day and still feel the same hope you keep feeling good.