[sparky]

To mvpt/aka Dave.....thanks for the kudos.....it means alot cause you were one of the ones on me from the beginning to get on sub.....I procrastinated to the bitter end...with excuse after excuse....I know alot are opposed to getting off sub to soon....but I have been monitored....and for me I'm so glad in retrospect that I am that many days OFF sub....I'm closer to being FREE of opiate addiction....

[coachdave]

Tinkers,
Bad things don't happen to you specifically, they just happen. That's part of living life. Sorry about your wreck, though. That does suck. Glad you didn't have to take narcs. It's amazing how recovering addicts are willing to take a little physical pain to avoid all the pain that comes taking just one or two narcotic pills. Personally, I know that I have been willing to endure physical pain to avoid the pain of active addiction. I don't encourage being a martyr by any stretch of the imagination. It can be a hard call, but it sounds like you did the right thing.
David

[johntrav]

I have been watching for quit a while and first would like to congradulate u all on trying to get off and stay off. I have been on anything and everything i can get my hands on for the past 5 years. I use to be a bodybuilder and had a few bumps in the road in terms of siblings death and alot of other things and started using at first because i couldnt sleep very good after my sister passed at a young age from a car wreck. she was 18 and at the time i was about 27 yrs old and was big into bodybuilding and needless to say all that is a thing of the past. I at that time was weighing a solid 250 and now weigh a unhealthy 170lbs. I dont know why ive lost so much weight,i dont work out now because i have no energy and seem to care about nothing but keeping my pill bottle full so my days are consumed with making phone calls and running to meet people to buy from.I am out of work right now because i cant bring my self to do anything!The doc has put me out for depression and one of my questions is have all of u had this same bout with depression and is it because of these pills. I have graduated to a total of around 40 or so 10's a day over my period of use and hardly feel a thing from them anymore. I am wanting to come off but really dont no where to start and so im HERE!Not to mention im scared of death of what it will be like not taking so i would appreciate any help that anyone could offer as to wear to start and be clean.Also what was you guys last straw that made u want to quit because im not sure im even there yet but feel if i dont quit im gonna possibly end up hurting my self chasing that feeling.

any responses would be mucy appreicated

[LISA GIRL]

Tinkers.. So sorry my friend to hear of your accident.. Why do bad things happen to good people? I suppose I would know if I would have read the book. But know that God has a plan, even if we don't understand it. Stay strong guy...at the risk of being cliche, what doesn't kill us, makes us stronger.

Question for the sub users.. how much sub are you taking now? How much of your d.o.c. were you taking? You know I feel much healthier and have a lot of energy, but I am still having cravings. It is not overwhelming nor all that long lasting but they are there. I wonder if my dose is not high enough. I know it is an individual kind of thing, but it just seems like this dose should be doing it for me.. I also am worried about the conditioned response of taking pills.. I wonder if subconsciously I am thinking more must be better? It feels almost like I am craving the sub but maybe I am craving the percocet.. I can't really tell.. I just know I am craving...

[Lazer]

I am taking 24mg of Suboxone. 8mg. 3X a day. I feel great, the only thing is if I don't take them every so often, I sweat profusely. Sounds like I am addicted now to them now. I don't know what to do. I asked this before but more important issues came up on the board and the questioned was never addressed. I am also taking other med's and now I have bad joint pain and red spots or rashes. The doctor said could be a drug allergy but hardly looked at them. If anyone knows me by now you know I AM FREAKING OUT ABOUT THE SIDE AFFECTS AND THE SWEATING. LIVING WITH DARVOCET WAS SO MUCH EASIER ( felt great, had energy, good moods ) BUT I KNOW, IT WOULD BE WORSE IN THE LONG RUN.

[patmamma]

Kaidog,
Well, I am facing dental surgery now, ****! They will put me out but, they have to cut my gums and open the flap up, go to the teeth tips, scoop out the irritated area, then put in a filling, sew me back up, and send me on my way. Do you think there will be any way to avoid pain pills? I am going to do it in two weeks, so I will be one month clean by then!

I feel so amazing! I cannot believe how great it feels to be clean!

Johntrav, it is very scary looking at what you have to accomplish, but not seeing the way it will all unfold. I do believe your first step should be suboxone, as you use quite a bit of pills. It will make the transition smoother than going cold turkey. Bottom line is, you totally can do it, and I believe that! I have seen it happen, you are already on your way, wether you know it or not. Just coming here is huge! Good luck, I am here if you need advise. Well, actually, I am leaving town for two days, but i will be there.
Patmamma

[LISA GIRL]

Sorry Lazer. Not sure what your question is.. Are you asking if you could you be addicted to the sub? Or are you asking about the possible allergy?

Johntrav. Welcome... I think with as much as you are taking, suboxone is definitely something you would want to consider. I went c/t the last time around but my dosage had increased and I knew what c/t would be like ,so I opted for the sub...You asked for what reason we decided to quit..for me it was having zero energy to do anything or even leave my house (except for work) Also (and probably more importantly) I was spending about $50/day on the pills. And that was just to prevent me from going into withdrawal.. I wasn't getting that much out of them anymore if you know what I mean.

Still having cravings tonight. I took another pill...that's 12 mg today. I have never seen anyone on the sub talk about having cravings..course no one got high off it either. I think the first few days I still had the percs leaving my system.. that is probably what was....in any case.. I feel sooo much better but can't understand why I am getting these cravings...


KAIDOG...Are you watching this football game? Chicago is getting run OVER!!??

[Kaidog]

Mamma-cito:

I HATE reading stuff like that. I'm convinced with all my heart that Dentists go to college for many years so that they know a thousand ways to hurt someone. That don't sound like fun [u]at all</u>.[xx(] We need a scared sh@tle$$ emoticon.

LISA:

No football for me. My wife's sister is visiting and they are watching a chick-flick so I dare not venture into the living room. Too much estrogen.

Lazer:

Hang in there. You've come a long way and while it's been a tough road to navigate, you've still covered a lot of ground.

Cranky-Kranky:

Where you iz? Check in and let us know how you're doing.



Clean Date = 09/12/06

[nymommy]

johntrav~~~~~~~~~~welcome..i'm on on sub..never took as many as you(opiates), but a problem none the less.....i understand how a loss could send you to a place you thought you'd never be..your question regarding what got me wanting to get clean..beside $$$. i hated living a lie..i'm almost month off vics..feel good, w/ no cravings at all...but you mentioned not being 100% sure you wanted to stop ( a place i've been as well)..i really think you have to WANT it..i could be wrong..lots of people have gone ct..it really depends on your personel needs...for me ct/weaning wasnt gonna work.......but the sub has...i hope whatever path you take, you find the strengh

[coachdave]

Johntrav,
It sounds as if you are definitely ready to quit. I would suggest going to a detox center for a few days if that is at all possible. That is a high dose that you are taking. I was up there as well and could never quit on my own. The meds that they will give you will help the withdrawls. If detox isn't possible, go to a qualified physician. I suggest trying NA meetings as well. I probably wouldn't have 2 and a half years clean if it wasn't for NA.

Pesonally, my decision to finally quit was when death became preferrable to waking up every day.

Lisa Girl, you will have cravings for a while. It's the nature of the disease. I find that talking to another addict when I have cravings (yes I still have them on occasion. I'm an addict!) helps to send them packing. My sponsor tells me that it is because I am sharing the burden of addiction with someone and not bearing it alone. The cravings will lessen with time. Just remember, as long as you don't use, you have been through your last withdrawals!
Much love guys! You have no idea how much you help me stay clean!
David

Just For Today

[LISA GIRL]

Dave.. I know I should know, but please tell me again... are you on maintenance, methadone or sub? Or did you go c/t? I don't think you probably went cold turkey if your usage was high as it was. Sorry.. it's just hard some times to remember everyone's story. However you do it, props for your clean time and the very valuable posts here. You have a LOT of knowledge regarding addiction and recovery..


NMMOMMY.. Let me know if you didn't get my email. I have been having problems w/ it all day.

[johntrav]

thank all of you for your responses and i am ready to quit for many reasons. I am just very scare of what it will be like because i so look forward to taking those pills or use to anyway but now i to only try and keep myself out of withdrawls because i cant get enough in me anymore to feel the high. Unless of coarse i run across some OC's but even then the dose i have to take is so much i can not really even enjoy it because i am scared im going to overdose.I just feel like everyday is just consumed by my trying to stay out of the withdrawls and thats all i can focus on anymore. I go to bed thinking about pills and wake up thinking about them. I worry when im low on them and worry when i have alot of them. I never have any peace anymore and everyone knows something is wrong with me because of the amount of weight that ive lost and thats also embarssing. Im not sure that people know whats wrong with me but it is pretty common knowledge that im on them because i have to ask everyone for them. I spend a large amount of money on them as well and also have a doc that i get them from and a few friends give them to me each month because they no my situation. I just never new u could get addicted to them,i thought i could just quit when i wanted to but one time i stopped taking them and it was awful and only then did i realize that my body was actually addicted to them. Does anyone else just sit on the couch and cant bring themselves to leave the house or go any where unless its absolutely neccessary or is it just me and is that the pills doing that to me or what? I just dont understand why i feel like total **** all the time,even when i have a lot of pills in me i wont do much because it makes the wave of calmness if fill go away sooner then if i were to just sit still.
I think i am going to look into finding a doc to put me on the suboxone but im scare i take to many pills for that to be effective on me, does anyone know if it would keep the withdrawls away with the amount that i take. I take around 400mg a day of opiates be it what ever i can get.

Thank you guys!

[nymommy]

john.sub would be fine for you..just get a good doc.the suboxone web site has a listing..chk.it out

[LISA GIRL]

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a...00010000000001

OK.. a little off topic...however...when you think things are not going too good for you..... think of this poor woman! (Tinkers I thought of you when I saw this..) What are the odds in a city the size of New York?

[tinkers]

GO BEARS!

Suboxone works give it a chance!

[tinkers]

Lisa

I know god has a plan for me, after I was hit I talked to my pastor and he was at a loss and as for accidents just happening ask my wife she thinks i have a target on my back I have been hit 4 times in 4 years what kind of plan is that? As for the sub question how much do I use well I took alot of pain killers when i started like avarege 20-30 a day I started on 3-4 8mg a day and now im on .50-1 a day so I think things are going pretty good you know you say that you have cravings i did alitte at first so being the addict i am i took some vikes and guess what they dident do **** so every one who wants to know what happens the answer is nothing at all. Lisa keep up the good work your doing great.

John,

WOW, I hear you man I have been in some pretty bad places in my life and i took all kinds of pills and they made me forget things for awhile and guess what they never whent away there were waiting for me. You said that the pills dont even do anything for you well I think that happens to us all its called addiction you now have to take them to feel normal or not to get sick well that feeling isent normal i can promise you that you should look into suboxone it work great and i think it can help you IF you are read to quite good luck.

Suboxone works give it a chance!

[tinkers]

John,

Man O man you are just like I was to the T you can get better I have and I'm getting better every day I controle my futer now not the pills and they did for many many years N/A may help you also they give you alot of good tools for you to use and to help you understand how you gat to wear you are and there are plenty of people there just like you so you know that your not alone are you married? does she have a problem too? any way look up there is help you dont have to live like that any more suboxone is truly a wonder drug well I bablin but your story is so much like mine its not funny so if you have any questions just ask.

Suboxone works give it a chance!

[LISA GIRL]

John.. Any way that you feel on the pills... one of us has felt that way before. It is the same story..give or take a few details... for all of us.. I wouldn't leave the house except to go to work and that had become a chore.. I would get off work and come straight home to take more pills.. The house made me feel "safe" or something.. I wouldn't do things that needed to be done like grocery shopping cuz I wanted to be home. Now there's nothing wrong with being a homebody, but when it takes over your LIFE, you are probably either an addict or depressed. I think I was both. I was always a very social person before the pills and they turned me into someone who didn't want to go to events ie., weddings, baby showers etc.. it was more comfortable for me to be home with my pills. I started the sub last week and my life has literally taken a 180... please try it.. you have nothing to lose.. if it doesn't work the pills will still be there.. that's how I had to look at it because I was scared to quit... wasn't sure I really wanted to quit...but I am sooo glad I did.. I know you will be too.!

[Kaidog]

Johntrav:

I replied with this post on your other thread........... not sure you saw it. You can beat this thing but it's gonna take work on your part. Find that inner strength you once directed toward the body building and redirect it toward beating this addiction.

Johntrav:

Wow. You've got quite a story to tell. It's a classic case of an addict spending everything and willing to forsake everything to get his / her fix.

Forty 10's per day is a lot of hydro........ by just about anybody's standard. Coupled with your statement that you aren't even sure you want to quit, I'd say your chances of success, if you go unassisted, are very slim indeed. That's the bad news.

The good news is that you appear to be someone who at one time had incredible dedication and who was willing to endure significant sacrifice in pursuit of a goal, (the body building). Putting this chapter of your life behind you will require just as much dedication and commitment as you ever mustered toward the body building.

The other good news is that you also appear to be a perfect candidate for suboxone. It truly is a miracle at delivering many, many addicts from the clutches of hydro addiction. It does it painlessly and effectively and instantly.

I would encourage you to investigate and to ask a few questions of others here on this board who have used it.

It can be done. You can get free. Attempting to taper and then go cold turkey is an incredibly difficult process and it is truly an ugly experience.



Clean Date = 09/12/06

[sparky]

JohnTrav.....you found this sight.....big step....you are wanting help...I was like you....obsessing about pills, worrying about running out and then having w/d...timing everything in life around those evil pills....it is a disease...you are an addict.....with as many as you are taking I would highly suggest suboxone as others on this board have also said.....it is your segway miracle drug to get off your opiate pill cycle....it is scary because you fear w/d so much...but suboxone works....either find a reputable doctor...who does'nt try to rip you off money wise (they are out there)...let him monitor when you start, how much to take, and when to start weaning....there are many different opinions about when and how long to stay on suboxone...but I believe the sooner you are weaned off suboxone the sooner you are truely free of opiates..because suboxone is a very strong opiate also....it just segways you into getting off whatever you were hooked on in a smooth way....really...

Lazer...what does your doc say about these side effects...have you asked if they are compatible with sub...also how long have you been on your 24mgs of sub...just curious

Lisa girl....hmmmm cravings.....are you sure you are not taking subutex which does'nt have the ingredient in it to keep cravings away...they are similar drugs....maybe your cravings are mental associations????auto response type thing

ny mommy....glad to here you are on sub and its going good....how is everything else....did you let go of your secret???

Coach Dave...did you do sub...to come clean.......since you are a personal trainer.....I have been off sub 18 days and about 41 off vikes......when will I get my real energy back....I know about those excercise endorphines being important....what would you recommend as a scedule to get back into the gym....

Thanks to all...and best to all in quest to free yourself of this evil, cunning, seductive....thing called addiction

[coachdave]

I took subutex. Suboxone wasn't out when I got clean. In fact, subutex had just started being used at the t/c where I went. I'll tell you guys, my thinking when it came to cravings was that I never wanted to go through withdrawals again. Just the thought of how bad I felt helped me control the cravings. Also, I talked to people (other addicts) about the cravings. I didn't isolate myself the way that I was before. Sparky, I'm not a personal trainer, but I can tell you about starting to exercise... it doesn't matter what type you do, just start slow. As an addict, I have the tendancy to jump into whatever I'm doing with both feet. Patience is the way to go...One of my favorite recovery sayings is "Easy Does It". It will take time for your body to purge all the toxins out of the system. It took me a few months before I even knew what normal felt like because I had abused my body so badly. I jumped back into exercise like I had never taken a break,and I paid for it. Don't rush it, but start exercising in some manner. You will feel better for it.

Just For Today

[LISA GIRL]

Sparky.. I am taking suboxone not subutex but I think that a lot of what I think are cravings are indeed habit, conditioned response.. just like old Pavlov and his dog...I get home from work.. I want a pill.....maybe I'll just pop some calcium when I get home and try to fool my unconscious self.

Also I think the personal trainer you are thinking of is Uncle Nasty...Hey U.N. aren't you in the Denver area? Maybe come spring I'll hire you to whip me into shape!

I thought the naloxone in suboxone was only there to prevent you from shooting it up or something.. I didn't know that was the ingredient that prevented the cravings.. are we sure about that?hmmm..
guess I'll look it up.

I don't know where all of you guys are today but it's cold and snow is BLOWIN' in Colorado.. Have a good night.

[johntrav]

tinker, thanks for your reply and as for my being married i am and she too is on them as well.She only does around 100mg a day and has done so for about 3 yrs or so.And yes it is all my fault because i discovered a pill that i first started taking to sleep because of what happen to my little sister and then one night took a few too many and found out only then how good they made u feel. I no that may sound stupid but as i say i was bodybuilding at the time and never done anything like that.I never drink alcohol(my moms is a alcoholic) i had never taken any pills or done anything like that or new anything about drugs at all and look at me now.I only gave her the pills because i was just amazed that a little pill could make u feel so good and make everything better.So i not only have to worry about my sobriety but hers as well, because it is my fault!I feel really bad about about that but whats done is done and if i could take it back i would.Im going to find a doc and try the suboxone but i am worried that if it dosent work nothing will help with the withdrawls because it blocks everything and i am concerned about that.So between the two of us we knock out about 50 or so 10's aday and it has cost me so much money i dont even like to think about it and have almost went through all my savings since being put out of work for depression.My savings being my only income for the past 5 months that i have been on leave. I most likely will loose my job when i return so i really am gonna have to do something,cant afford it anymore even if i wanted too.

To all, Thanks guys for your kind words and help and i am glad i found this place and have read from page 1 to the present before ever replying so i do and have read about each and everyone of you and you all do sound exactly like myself and what ive went through.I have quit before cold turkey back a few years ago and was taking much less then and it was an awful experience and do not wish to do it again if i can help it.Whats so sad is that i would spend my last dime to keep those feelings away and almost have so thats where i am now.Im almost flat broke,more addictted then ever and just dont have the resources to continue my addiction and am scared of what i may turn to to get them when my funds or resources run out.THAT REALLY REALLY SCARES ME!

[LISA GIRL]

John.. If you are serious about wanting to try the sub, I would call as soon as possible. Depending on where you live, you might have difficulty getting in right away.. I guess if you have read all the posts from the start, then you know this. I wouldn't worry about the sub not working.. you might have to start at a high dose, but I have never heard of it not working for anyone.. at least with the physical withdrawal. Believe me you are not the first one to take the amount that you do..you will do great!

[johntrav]

Hi lisa, i have found a list of docs in NC and plan to call tomarrow. I too am worried about getting in and plan to beg them to hurry me through.I have methadone on hand that ive purchased on the street but only use it when i cant find anything else and it scares me to have to take because of everyone killing over from it. Do u know if they are taking something along with it?why is so many people dying from the methadone or methadose what ever it is i do have them. They look like a big waggon wheel and i have bought them along the way just to have in case i need them and have used them occassionally.I cant take not having nothing at all and its sad that i risk possible death and take the stuff anyway but i just cant stand the feelings i have when i run out.I feel like im loosing my mind and have considered just running myself into a wall or something just to get away from the cravings(thats how bad my craving are anyway)i imagine everyones is the same regardless of there dosage.

Thanks lisa

[LISA GIRL]

John.. Good luck tomorrow... Let us know how it goes.... Will your wife be starting sub with you? You will really not believe how much better you will feel. Really!

[Lazer]

IF I AM STILL NOT FEELING WELL WITH RASHES, A LITTLE DIZZINESS, WANTING TO SLEEP A LOT, LOW ENERGY, ETC. WHEN COULD I START TO EXPECT TO FEEL BETTER AGAIN? IT'S BEEN 2 WEEKS OF THE FIRST 3 ON 24 MGS. OF SUBOXONE. THE FIRST WEEK I WAS ON 8 MG. OF SUB. THROWING UP EVERY DAY. I WAS ON 13-15 TABS OF DARVOCET A DAY. SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT HERE UNLESS THIS IS WHAT IS SUPPPOSED TO BE HAPPENING AND IS THE WAY I AM SUPPOSED TO BE FEELING.

[nitetripper]

i was on subs for about 4 months ,and i felt awesome, and they lasted a whole 24 hours instead of 6-8 as the lortbs did for me .. but ill be honest its just changing seats on the titanic.. its still opiods and it was hell getting of them also .. thers just no easy was out of this im the kind of addict who doesnt like the witdrawal symptoms and when it came to cut back i couldnt do it .. with pain killers you just have to face the suffering and withdrawals.i was doing 30 tabs..10's a day for years i cut down the subs to now i just take a few tramadols a day to take the edge off and i feel sic all over all the time . im going to na meetings to stop using pills altogether because i also have the compulsion and obsesion to use and if i dont get rid of that ill never stop ... EVER !

[unclenasty93]

johntrav,

Something I read in your post worried me a bit. You said that you need to also worry about your wifes sobriety because her using is "your fault". Not true at all. Your wife is an adult and is responsible for her own actions. She is also responsible for her own recovery. You didn't "force" her to try pills, she "chose" to. Unless they are holding a gun to our heads, nobody "makes" us do anything. We are adults with free will and we need to own our behaviors. So please, please, do not feel fault for her addiction, she chose to try the pills and she also has "chosen" to continue using. It is a little bit of a dangerous situation the two of you have, you enable eachother. I was in your exact situation with my ex-girlfriend, and it is so much easier to keep the addiction going when you have someone to do it with. You both need to do whatever it takes to get clean, and you can't do it for the other person you have to do it for yourself. I know it pains you greatly to see her addicted, especially when you blame yourself. Just remember that unitl you deal with your own addiction, you will not be able to be as supportive as you would like for her. peace.

Lisa Girl,

Let's Do It!!! Anytime you are ready I would love to train you. "Whipping" people into shape is my speciality I haven't been working much lately, for obvious reasons, but as soon as I get clean I will dive back in. What part of town are you in? Do you belong to any healthclubs? I have been certified for about 4.5 years and I love it. Nothing is better for addicts in early recovery than excercise, nothing! mike. (the uncle)

[Kaidog]

Day 36:

1/10th of a year! There were so many times that I never thought I'd make it this far. The cravings come and go........... but with ever decreasing frequency.

Thank you all for your words of encouragement over the past 5-1/2 weeks. They really have helped.

Clean Date = 09/12/06