[JBowski13]

UT MOM, Keep It Up. I'm on a week and I feel Great.

Miles, Did you get beat up a lot when you were a kid? Never got the girl, or Maybe NEVER got Breastfed. You are so Lucky the internet can hide people like you. You know who you are, the pervert in the teen chat room. I'm surprise you have enough time to act like you care in this community and then go and gossip about MTV to 13 yr old girls. Well freak, you make me sick. And you still havent aswered why your here. So when your done eating dinner with mommy and allowed to go back to your room, tell me why your here.

[stacem30]

UTMOM,
I'm proud of you! What a great accomplishment! Every single hour, every single day we're off of those horrible drugs is a great day! Sub I think is a great choice also. I have the same story as you. I'm also a mom. I have a 12 yr. old little/BIG boy, although I'm now a single mom, who means the world to me. But I had to do this for myself. I was up to 50+ hydro #10/325's per day! Horrible! And after 10 yrs. have been clean for four months! I actually started the sub just three weeks ago because after my horrible hydro use I went to a methadone clinic to try the taper method and I was terrified to w/d myself. I spent 14 days there and had been clean 120 days or so before starting sub. The depression coming off of methadone and the cravings for me just got worse. My doc felt like this would help me start and put my life together, give me a slight boost and then we would get off of this and I would have something to look forward to. Besides what I'd become out of the hospital.....clean, but a blank slate of nothing. I didn't know what to do with myself. Had no self confidence and no umph. I was so used to needing a pill to help me do anything it was pitiful. I think if we all stick together on here and keep ourselves honest and share with each other, this will be a great thing. We'll have friends to talk to that know just what we're going through. So keep up the good work and if you need anything, just holler!
Take care and God bless,
Stace

[Hunterdog]

I am so pissed and so discouraged!

I was well on my way to recovery...12 days of being absolutely clean and then I crashed my motorcycle, breaking 4 ribs in 7 places and a radicle fracture to my clavicle. I spent two weeks in aweful pain and returned to the Norco's for 19 days to manage the pain. After the reconstructive surgery to my shoulder the pain got much better and today is day #2 of once again going cold turkey.

The withdrawals are worse than last time, even with the catapres patch. Restless legs are driving me crazy and the lack of sleep is really wearing on me.

In spite of how aweful this is, I am resolved to beat these things. I just long to be back where I was thre weeks ago.

Hunterdog

Hunterdog

[Hunterdog]

Oh yea.....one more thing.

Due to the withdrawals, I am sneezing about once an hour. That feels REAL good on my shattered ribs! YUK!

Hunterdog

[Miles]

JBowski13, I don't owe you anything. Take your neuroleptic of choice and chase it with a few glasses of 100 proof whiskey - call me when you feel human.

Stace, in simple English this time: Words and semantics are indeed powerful communication tools. Words and definitions are used to gain power over others and essentially enslave them. While I do not deny the suffering that accompanies emotional turmoil, I am troubled by the definitions of the terms we so freely use (e.g., "mental illness"). I take issue with the definitions, who gains from the definitions, and who loses out as a result of them. The use of metaphors like the term "mental illness" deprives us of our greatest freedom: autonomy (independence). Psychiatrists have mastered the use of metaphors, present themselves as scientists and explicitly deny the right of independence to those whom they choose to define and control.

As a result of psychiatric definitions, psychiatrists and the political system (through the psychiatrists) gain the power to "convict" people, incarcerate them, and subject them to involuntary "drug treatment" and other forms of dehumanization... all without a trial, judge or jury.

It is important for us to understand that that modern psychiatry and its identification of new "psychiatric diseases" did not begin by following the methods that pathologists use at dissection (cutting open people and looking for changes in the body's structure). By reclassifying non-illnesses as illness, psychiatrists have successfully elevated the power and prestige of their profession, so much so that virtually any problem in daily living falls within their discipline.

So, the power of psychiatrists depends largely on the phrase "mental illness," and terms such as "addiction," "depression," "neurosis," "schizophrenia," etc., when declared, defined and accepted as so-called "mental illnesses." Without these words, the power of psychiatrists would be greatly reduced.

The "mental illness" concept is a powerful weapon in the hands of tyrants. It arms them with the coercive power to incarcerate anyone they do not like, without a trial, judge or jury. Once incarcerated, psychiatric patients can be given the "treatment" of drugs, electro-shock, lobotomy, and other forms of dehumanization to break their spirit and effectively destroy their lives.

We all should know by now that there were no witches in the days of so-called witchcraft. Hindsight allows us to come to that conclusion. However, only a few hundred years ago, the greatest minds were convinced that witches existed. Could it be that our belief in mental illness is similarly flawed?

In summary, I know you are suffering and do not want you to think that I consider you a weak person. That is certainly not my belief and I hope you understand that. It's the doctors (shrinks, specifically) and the political system that thinks that way about you, not I. Hopefully I have given you an opportunity to think about your personal situation and realize that you are not the problem - it is the Therapeutic State. That is my purpose.

Regards,
Miles

[JBowski13]

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.

Answere the question and stop your bullsh*t. Why are you on here? Stop being a quear and giving out your fag info. Go to hell and you die. I gotta go and take my neuroleptic of choice and chase it with 100 proof whiskey. Homo

[The Coach]

Miles, you have an opinion for everyone but me, why? You seem not to listen to anyone except yourself. Please try my suggestion on page 13 and then tell me about pain and addiction. Thank you for trying it, and if you are not going to try it get the hell out of here. People here need support and understanding not an asshole who believes in absolutes. There is nothing absolute in this world, not even you being an asshole, I am sure someone in this world likes you. Coach

[gretchens4]

Excuse me JB (Jason),
I am at a loss as to where you thought I told Ansfan17 percocet wasn't addciting....NEVER. Of course she is eligible for suboxone. My point was that in light of how powerful and addicting suboxone is, it may be in her best interest to taper off the percocet with the suboxone quickly or not at all. Reread my post. In no way did I say that percocet wasn't addicting.....It is in fact a much stronger opiate than the hydrocodone I was on. I fail to see how my advice was horrible in that I just gave her more than one option. Suboxone is a wonderful tool for recovery, but it IS very physcially addicting and EXTREMELY hard to taper off of.........just ask anyone who has been on it for more than 6 months. Consider the risks and benefits is my only advice. I have NO idea how the words I wrote were interpreted so badly.
Gretchen

quote:Originally posted by JBowski13

ANSFAN17, you can actually get put on suboxone. I have no clue why grethen feels percocet isnt that addicting. Of course to her, 30 pills a day compared to 5 isnt that great, but its still a problem. I was just put on Suboxone and my doc was great. I told him I'm addicted to pills for the last 5 years and nothing has worked. Once he put me on Suboxone, i told him I was nervous that I wouldnt qualify for it unless I was using harder stuff, oxycotin or heroin. He told me an opiate addiction is all the same regardless of the pill name. Go to www.suboxone.com and find the locator for your state. If your in Michigan, My doc is real good. He monitored my first two dosages, so i'm sure they'll do the same to you. Sorry Gretchen, but thats horrible advice.

[stacem30]

Miles,

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[LILYDOG]

The suboxen, or bups as we call them, are very expensive. Here in Northern Washington State, a perscription for two weeks worth was $156.00. Of course, my drug of choice is heroin, so he put me on two 8 mg per day. Your friend can probably make it on one or even a half a day. It is tru, this drug works. Can you believe in the town I live in, Bellingham Washington, one of the 10 largest cities in the state, the Emergency Room doctors have never heard of it. I have found a true lack of information out there in the world about this drug, so please spread the word. No doctor in my entire County perscribes it, the next county won't take out of county patients. We have to drive 80 miles to a doctor who has taken the training. I am writing an article that combines personal experience with facts, interviews, ect. If anyone wants to contribute, please write me. If you are willing to do an interview and are an opiate addict, let me know. I really need a doctor to perscribes to interview.

[Miles]

JBowski, Stace, and The Coach:

Civility be damned! With apologies to all other posters, I'll write this at a third-grade level so each of you angry, moonstruck, mental midgets can understand:

JBowski: Other than your own infantile self, I am your worst enemy. That is why I am here. Sleep on it.

The Coach: Here's an opinion for you... Most people with low self-esteem have earned it. Clearly, you fit the profile.

Stace: I have never been quarantined, but the more I read from you, the more I think it might not be a bad idea.

It is nigh impossible to reach each of you with a true message of freedom and personal responsibility. Future vitriol from you will be ignored and dismissed as derangement by three piteous souls.

Miles

[Bill Mullins]

[8D] HEY EVERYONE, I WAS WANTING TO SEE IF ANYONE OUT THERE WHO HAS HAD A TERRIBLE TIME STAYING OFF OF ULTRAM(TRAMADOL). I WAS POLICE OFFICER AND BECAME VERY DEPENDENT ON IT. I WAS PUT ON IT BECAUSE IT WAS SUPPOSE TO BE NOT HABIT FORMING ACCORDING TO MY DOCTOR (WE ALL KNOW THATS A LIE). THE DOCTOR SAID IT WOULD BE PERFECT BECAUSE OF MY DUTIES AND THE DRUG WILL NOT IMPAIR MY ABILITIES TO DRIVE OR FUNCTION. WELL I STARTED CALLING IN BOGESS SCRIPTS AND FINALLY GOT CAUGHT BY MY DEPARTMENT AND THE ATTORNEY GENERALS OFFICE. I WAS THE PRESIDENT OF THE LOCAL FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE AND IN CONTROL OF ABOUT $15,000.00 BOY WHAT A MISTAKE!!!!! IM STILL STRUGGLING TODAY I'VE BEEN ARRESTED 5 TIMES AND WAITING PRISON TIME DUE TO ME VIOLATING MY PROBATION. IM LOOKING AT 7 YEARS ALL OVER ULTRAM CONTROLLING MY LIFE AND DECISIONS. ALL THIS OCCURED IN 2003 AND IM STILL SUFFERING I ATTEND NA AND AA ROOMS BEEN IN AND OUT OF DRUG PROGRAMS. SOMEONE PLEASE RESPOND AND SHARE THERE EXPERIENCE, THANKS FOR LISTENING, BILL MULLINS[:I]

[stacem30]

Milesy Poo,

each of you angry, moonstruck, mental midgets can understand

And now you resort to name calling.........quarantined? Sounds like you hit the nail right on it's head........true, you might need it...damn, wish I'da thought of that.......and for everything else you write.......I'm still laughin so very much!

And btw....Jbowski's already met his worst enemy and is off and away from it......he's beating it, so I'm sure you're nothing to him.....I'd watch out! hahahahahahaha
Stace

[CheySapphire]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi! everyone, am in alot of pain right now and I seem to hate the world at this moment, am so alone, I just want to die,this is going on day 2 and nobody has been there for me, I have cut everyone out of my life except my little kids, my head hurts so bad and I just keep crying, I going from crying to flipping out and so on,I feel so sick and so scare, I want to go into a shelter with my kids and just get away from every around here, I hate my spouse, I hate is mother, Its me maybe, I don't know, but I do know this I want to go far away from everyone and everything. those of you who have support hold on to it, because be alone and nobody understanding what you are going threw is the worst thing in the world. I just want to pull my hair out, because I feel so alone, and now what that is one problem now a days people feel so alone that they just end it all cause they have nothing left in there life to hold on to. Take care everyone I don't if I will be around to post anymore, I wish you all the best of luck, and please hold on to your support, cause am one scared woman right now and alone. Susan

Susan37 Mother of 10 and Two grandchildren and one of them live with me.




Susan37 Mother of 10 and Two grandchildren and one of them live with me.

[jmadcat101]

quote:Originally posted by Doggy

So if she is on the hydrocodone before her appointment then what? How long will it take for her to be clean without any withrawals? She is hoping to be clean within 3 weeks from the appointment next week. She is scared...very scared. She is scared to have the withdrawals. She also gets panicky when she has tried to go off of it before also no sleep unless she takes the hydrocodone before she goes to bed as well. I will be there with her every step of the way that is for sure but I am just trying to educate myself as much as possible beofre next week. Thanks again for all your help and support...especially you Mitzu. I guess I just have so many questions but I know everyone tolerates things differently.

[jmadcat101]

In reading over your letters, I have not found anything dealing with any other time period except for the withdrawals scope.......I'm looking to narrow it down to the time between when the withdrawals end and when you go home to be with the Lord. LOL Addictions are life long issues whether they be tanning, alcohol, nicotine or other drugs. Grave clothes can be hard to shed. My fiance is addicted to pain killers. At this time, he is not chasing after them but having been married to a drug addict before you look at things differently. You learn to think like them. Let it be known that an addict must learn to trust those that love them. Not trusting us will only cause us not to trust them. Without trust the road will always be questionable. A little confrontation beats the alternative...being paired with a person who is always wondering if you are going where you say you are going, if you are seeing who you say you are seeing, if you are doing what you say you are doing, if that missing $20 really went to buy a Mountain Dew and some gas...You owe it to the person to give them the choice of whether or not they want to be there. The unspoken wonder can be deafening for both of you. Any success stories on overcoming and staying on top? God bless you all!

[Lat]

Hi Miles,

I'm new here. You seem to be attracting a fair bit of ********************, I hope you ignore it.

I am amazed on how this myth of faulty brain chemistry (without any proof) is the cause for all undesirable thoughts, feelings and behavior. As long as this myth concocted by the psychopharmacology industry remains in the realm of truth the real socio-economic, environmental and political causes can be ignored.

[stacem30]

Hi all,

Wow, it seems that Miles has created a new identity for himself or there are other non-addicted people seeking to get kicks off putting those of us down they know nothing about.

Carry on.

I hope everyone ELSE is having a wonderful day today. For those of you that are feeling down and hating everyone...pray about it. That's the most important thing to do through all of this. As a serious drug addict myself, I know that we tend to treat our DOC as our God......but it's NOT! That's the devil. If you pray.....something good always comes your way. Try this....I did and do and it helps. Say your prayers every morning before your feet hit the floor and thank God that he let you wake up and see your children or whatever you cherish most for one more day. And then thank him at night on your knees before sleeping that he let you have another full day clean and safe. For those that aren't clean yet but want to be.....pray that he'll help you find a way to fight this devil/demon and beat it, instead of letting it beat you! And then every single day keep a journal. Write down, even if it's just ONE thing good that came out of that day. For instance I woke up knowing a bill was due and they were coming to get my car......all the sudden in the mail was a refund check for me. It doesn't always work that way, or the way we want it to. It works the way God wants it to work for us. He's got a plan for each of us. And if you just let go, and let him make our choices for us and be PATIENT (my worst thing), he will make things happen. I got on suboxone and my cravings are gone. It's time to make a great life for myself....To hell with those stupid drugs beating me.....I'm a 35 year old single mother who lost everything and everyone......and I've now got my family back. I'm keeping them and holding onto all good that comes my way and making God proud of me. Because that's the only one that counts. And if you all need to talk or need someone there for you I'm here always. You've helped me so much, it's time for me to pay back.
I luv y'all!
Stace

[Hunterdog]

Stace:

Great post. You are absolutely right in stating the importance of getting hooked-up with God to get over all this. I couldn't do it without Him.

Today is day number 7 for me.......clean. Most of the worst withdrawals are gone with only a few lingering problems. I'm finally feeling like a human again and hope and pray that I can finally close this chapter of my life. After three plus years of heavy dependence, I am so ready to get it all behind me.

Like so many others before me, it all started with a very real need for pain killers due to a severe back injury. Eventually however, the back got better and the use did not decrease. Finally I came to realize how crucial it was for me to get off the Norcos. I was clean for twelve days and then crashed my motorcycle, breaking 4 ribs in 7 places and a radicle fracture of my left clavicle. The pain was aweful and I went back on the Norcos for 19 days. They did the reconstructive surgery to my shoulder two weeks ago and yesterday I got the staples out. I was originally so discouraged to be back on the Norcos but eventually redubled my resolve to get off so, 7 days ago I stopped c/t and feel as though I'm well on the way to recovery.

Anyway, thanks for the post. Your words of encouragement are always welcome.

Hunterdog

[stacem30]

Hi again all!

My girlfriend just asked me a question I know nothing about. Can you believe it?! hehe

Anyway, does anyone know how long ultram stays in your system? Although I took Utram for years, I have no idea the answer to her question. She's been addicted to them for a very long time. She's starting a new job and has to be drug tested and is worried. Although I don't think they actually check for that kind of drug in a drug test she wants to be sure. Does anyone know how long it lasts in your system???

If you can help, I'd appreciate it......she's sweatin...SHE NEEDS TO GET OFF EM! YIKES!

[BRDY]

I HAVE BEEN ON HYDROC FOR ABOUT WELL DECEMBER 5 2002, NOW THEY WANT TO PUT ME ON METHADONE, WILL TAKEING BOTH HELP WITH THE PAIN I'M GOING THREW OR WILL IT MAKE IT , MAKE ME WANT MORE , I HAVE NOT TRYED TO GET OFF THE PAIN PILLS I THINK I WILL DIE BEFORE I GET OFF THEM GOOD LUCK HOPE IT WORKS OUT FOR YOU ALL

CINDY STEPHENS

[stacem30]

Cindy,

May I say WHAT???? Are you talking about taking both methadone and hydro???? Please tell me no! First thing wrong with that is that methadone is a pain medication in itself. It also helps people to get off of hydro and many other pain medications because when you take methadone, you can no longer feel high from any kind of pain medication. Believe me, when I was on methadone, I tried. And because you can't feel high from pain pills on methadone, people tend to overdose and die..........ALOT! Because when they don't feel high.........what does a true addict do? Take more! Big no no! Please please please don't do methadone. Stick to any other pain medication and when you want to truly get off of the stuff.......try suboxone through a physician or have one help you and tell you what's best for you. Methadone, I was told at the hospital (recovery clinic) I was in, is the worst withdrawel ever to go through! It was total and complete hell for me......I begged to die. Don't do that to yourself. You either do one or the other. But I would talk to a better doctor if yours is telling you to do this. He's writing you a suicide script hun. Be careful and stay healthy. Hope that helped a little.
Stace

[Melia]

I'm new to this board. I've been taking pain medication for about 4 years now, always under a Doctors care and exactly as prescribed. I have cronic pain for quite a bit of joint problems. I have Avascular Necrosis, Osteoarthrits, Steniosis & herniated discs in back, the begining of osteoporosis & Fibromyalga. Sorry I'm not the best speller. Anyway, I do have pain and other medical conditions that warrent pain meds. The thing that truely sucks for me is that I am allergic to all non steroidal anti infamitory meds as well quite a few of the pain meds. I cannot take any Ibprofen, naperson, advil, Alive, Cylabex, Vioxx, or these types (I'll go into shock & stop breathing). Vicodine, Morpine, & Percocet make me itch like crazy. The only thing I can take is demoral or dilaudid. I had to stop the Demoral because it was not working any more because I was on it to long so my Doc switched to Dilaudid 4 mg 1 tab 3 to 4 day.

I want off. I went off CT 3 yrs when I was in the hospital for one my many hospital stays. I did great, I never went through withdrawal and I was getting a lot of pain meds at the time. I think I was on a durgesic patch 75 plus 125 mg Demoral IV push every 4 for at least 8 days while I was in the hospital. My Doctor kept in for for 5 days to make sure that I was okay and I was, so discharged me. He could not believe that I did not have any symptoms. What I mean by that is I did not have the shakes or leg cramping or throwing up. But my pain was ALIVE AND REAL. Now back to my desire of wanting to get stop again. Will I have have the same luck? Yesterday I took one Dilaudid. I did fine. Today I took 1 Dilaudid and I feel fine. I hurt a little more but thats it. Should be sicker is my question? If anyone has suggestions please let me know thanks.

[JBowski13]

Lat,

How are you doing, what brings you here? Just curious because your're already on Miles side. The problem is when people like us search for a site and write about our situation, whats the point of trying to persuade us that our addiction is bull********************. I'm sure theres a site for people like you. If you took the time to look for this site, use that energy and find another site. Cheers mate!!!

[Lat]

JBowski13,

I know all about addiction mate, I have the collapsed veins to prove that. I did drugs for 26 years, I know about withdrawls, they are no myth, they hurt, no "bull********************" about it.

Now what am I on about you ask!

Have you ever been put on a CTO (Community Treatment Order)? It maybe called something else in your country.

A CTO is coercive pyschiatry (forced drugging). A chemical straight jacket with horrendous side effects. Your turned into a dysfunctional dribbling zombie because others deem your thoughts, feelings and behavior unexceptable.

CTO's are given under the guise that undesirable thoughts, feelings and behavior are a result of biochemical imbalances in the brain. Psychiatry claims all deviant behaviors are bonified pathological medical diseases and can be treated. After 5 decades of research and theories there is still no proof that any mental illness has any biochemical, medical or pathological cause.

I was put on a CTO for 4 years, my life was turned to hell. I am now an activist in the psychiatric survivor movement fighting for human rights.

Now, I can see that viewing *substance addiction* as a mental illness and a disease with biochemical imbalances of the brain as it's root cause can be beneficial to the addict. This theory lift's the social standing of the addict because the addict is now viewed as suffering a real disease. I'm sure every addict would prefer to be seen in the favorable light that they are genuinely sick rather than just "junkie scum".

My "so called" disease is called schizophrenia, the same flawed theory that my deviant thoughts, feelings and behaviour are caused by a real biochemical imbalance or disease of the brain is also applied to my diagnosis.

So you see both addiction and schizophrenia fall under the theory that our behavior, thoughts, feelings are caused by biochemical imbalances.
The difference is, people with schizophrenia lives are turned to hell because of this theory. It may have some benefits to the addict though.

As a psychiatric survivor we have a lot to lose as long as this unproven faulty brain chemistry theory persists. We want the proof, unfortunately when the truth comes out the addicts (real disease)
defense will be blown.

Wheres the proof JBowski13???

[stacem30]

Well howdy again Miles!

Shizoprenia? Yep I believe this about you. Try again......only better next time.
Stace

[CheySapphire]

Hi! everyone it is susan and relaspe, and I don't care anymore, I losed my granddaugher in probate court yeasterday, because my stupid daugher and her worker told me that it was up to me to let Jolena go with maria god I wish I didn't let her take her on the week-end, well now how I feel is I don't want nothing to do with my daugher, and ect, am hurt angry and I relaspe like a fool, why why why and why, I have bee do nothing but praying.god I love that little girl more then life its self.but my daugher is so stubborn everything has to be her way or no way. thanks for listening.


Susan37 Mother of 10 and Two grandchildren and one of them live with me.

[mpvt]

Hang in there Susan,you can try again later.There is no shame in relasping.Take care of the other things that a bothering you now and work on the other later.Be strong, you can do it......Dave

[Miles]

Lat:

How refreshing to hear from someone who has been through hellish psychiatric coercion and survived! I am proud of you and the wisdom you have attained during your ordeal. You have better stated what I have tried to state throughout my postings. Your point about the social benefit to the addict by being "diseased" is right on the mark!

There are a few miscreants on this site that will jump all over you and me for our beliefs as they have done already. Some cannot understand, some refuse to, and some are too "wasted" and "brain-fried."

Stay strong mate!

Regards,
Miles

[Hunterdog]

Miles:

I've got to confess that to sum degree I am on the fence with respect to what you have posted here on this site. I guess that my difficulty in agreeing with all you have said is that you have left little room for any gray area.

Without question, the Phychiatric community has done little to help society. They indeed have labeled too many "afflictions" as disease. However, with respect to one's drug dependency, there is without question a point where, although self inflicted, the body, not just the mind, becomes physically dependent on the drugs. Whether it stems from an altered brain chemistry of just the presence of the drugs that screw up the way in which the brain functions, the result is none the less, an altered brain. In my book, that is the point at which I would label it a disease. That is to say, once any part of the body does not function as created, I would then and only then call it diseased.

Withdrawals are very real as is the dependency experienced by anybody who has used certain narcotics for any length of time at all. Yes, the origins of the dependency are almost always, if not always a character flaw or a weakness if you will.

Actually, that may not be true once I think about it more clearly. I know that in my case, the physical dependence cane as a result of taking the medications exactly as prescribed for very real, very severe pain. However, at some point, there is an inevitable change that causes physical dependence and it is at that point that I think it not entirely inappropriate to call it a disease.

Just my two cents. My intent, as I believe yours is, is not to be argumenative. I myself am just coming to grasp the magnitude of my problem and to attempt to get my arms around how best to deal with it.

Not an attack in any form. Just my thoughts.

Hunterdog