[cranky]

Ugh - the morning of day 6. The ktatom is all gone, I'm getting more on Tues., so we'll see how it goes. I feel kinda ****py, like the tail-end of the flu, low energy and a bit groggy, although nothing like WD - more like caffeine WD. Same thing here with sleep, though, last night it felt like I didn't sleep at all, had the RLS thing and sweating going all night. I'm wondering how I'll do when my Norco refill comes in. The pain is something that's getting intense, and I'm wondering if I can control prescription painkiller intake - anyone been successful with that? I did well taking 2-4 per day for over a year before I started getting carried away 6-8 months ago and going to 6, then 8 then 12 - etc. Any thoughts? My resolve is strong, but I'm wondering if my body will betray me.

[LISA GIRL]

Cranky: Hate to tell you but I don't think that you are oging to be able to control your intake.. especially if you got carried away before. You might want to check out Uncle Nasty's post to me a few posts back. It was painfully truthful about the nature of addiction.

It sucks tht you are in pain. Since a lot of us here use purely recreationally, it is difficult to give advice to people who have a legitimate reason for use. Maybe there is someone else here who does need to continue use for medical reasons that has some insight.

Angela... where do YOU live? I am in the Denver area...

[Kaidog]

G-A-W-D this is getting tough. I am sooooooooooooo tired of the restless legs thing. I did manage a nap after church today but this restless legs thing is really getting old.

The temptation is so great to grab "just one" to take the edge off but I am trying to resist will everything I have. That coupled with the return of the arthritis and difficulty walking is really crummy.

So far I have resisted, hoping that everything will improve soon. Sure hope so.

[LISA GIRL]

Stay strong Kaidog.. I know it's tempting.. especially with that RLS!!! but you can do it and you have so much already invested. I will say a prayer for you tonight!

[LISA GIRL]

nymommy... Heading into your final 24 hours before the sub treatment.. How are you doing?

[nymommy]

lisa still going out w/ a bang actually had to order 6 more...for tommorrow (monday) i am soooo done w/ this bs..hope i'm not putting to much hope in the sub...good sign ..last nite my neighbor offered me 5 vic's..said no thanks i'm not taking them no more..just trying to cut all ties..he is clueless to my abuse..just thinks i take them recreational

[Kaidog]

Lisa Girl:

Prayers are much appreciated. I'me getting ready to hit the sack in a few and hope like crazy that the RLS doesn't return. Probably will though.

You are right. The biggest thing that is keeping me from using is the loss of all I've been through so far.

Thanks for the prayers. More your way for your upcoming victories with the sub.

[nymommy]

kaidog..your strengh is truly amazing to me..i hope last nite didnt hurt too bad..im not sure how many pills you were taking, but shouldnt there be some improvement?.....im having a problem w/ my computer, so i have to sneak and use my sons (funny i dont remember him paying for it) since he's on it 24/7, hasnt been that easy to post..be back tommorow w/ details of my appT~~~~LISA CALL TODAY ...sorry didnt mean to yell [:0]

[Kaidog]

Day 6

What a night. While the restless legs were much improved and there were no night sweats at all, I was racked my the most intense headache of my life. I took nothing stronger than aspirin to knock it down but it just laughed at that. I can't tell you all how much I was tempted to take as many Norco's as necessary to make it go away but I didn't. Not even one. In spite of no sleep at all, I feel much better today.

I have a grown son who lives at home and has some rather severe health issues. He too was up almost all night with his own issues so nobody slept at all. When I finally left the house at 5:00 this morning, he had finally fallen asleep and my wife was asleep on the couch. What a night.

nymommy: Good luck with the sub. I have heard so many great things about it. I'm excited for you as you embark on your road to recovery. Keep us posted with your thoughts as you progress.

cranky: How are things going. Today's day 7 for you isn't it? Hang in there. You've come so far over the past week and while the pain may come and go, I have found that it is impossible for me to accurately judge the severity of the pain until after a couple of weeks of recovery. I know it is a difficult situation to be in, trying to assess the pain, and deal with it while attempting to get clean. Good luck.

[LISA GIRL]

NYMMOMMY... I WILL CALL TODAY!<-----yelling back lol

I will be thinking of you today. I have a long work day ahead of me but I will be thiking of you strugging with yourself today. Just remember as A.H. said to focus on the fact that any bad feelings you have today going into w/d will be over soon. The worst is at night anyway, so it is good that you are detoxing during the day before the sub. I am so excited to hear about everything. If you can't post when you get home tonight, try to do so tomorrow morning! Good luck friend!

[LISA GIRL]

Hey mommy.. Only b/c I am extra paranoid about things myself... just a thought.. if you are using your son's computer make sure you erase or clean out your cookies (or whatever the word is ) or history on the computer! ( I am technically challenged on my computer other than the net) I know how important it is that your family esp your kids don't know about this! Otherwise it is very easy to see what web sites someone has been visiting! You probably thought of this but just a reminder

[cranky]

Kaidog - Hang tough - you are truly an inspiration to me. I don't think I'd be able to have pills in the house and not take them, even knowing that I would have to go through this hell again down the line. I'm on day 7, two days without Kratom. I'm finding that the Kratom postponed the WD, and made them much, MUCH milder but, there's no escaping the punishment. Maybe I discontinued it too soon. I also have had two sleepless nights with awful restless legs (eating bananas helps!) and just a general, miserable flu-like feeling like I want to jump out of my skin - no energy at all, but no real pain either. Thanks everyone for your support - It's more helpful than I can say. Why do we do this to ourselves? While I have a legitimate pain issue, two a day would take care of that, the rest are for "recreation" - wasn't even anything that great, so why do we get hooked on this stuff? I guess the euphoria is a nice escape from the problem of everyday life - I confess, I miss it. Well, I wish I could sleep, but no dice. More later - this sucks

[Angela H]

Mommy~
How are you? I've been thinking about you all day and waiting for you to post...let us know how you are.
You're gonna do fabulous. Know why I think that? Because you really want this and that is the trump card!
Thinking of you,
Angela

[nymommy]

angela, thanks..i do really want this...going tonite.. will try to post tonite if i can (my computer is back in action)otherwise count on me in the AM...i called the office again today, asking what to expect..they said a consultation and instructions on what to so w/ the pills..so it really all starts tommorrow~~~cranky..hang in there, why did you stop the kratom? can you start it again...to answer your question as to why we did this to ourselves, i know for me it was the boundless energy..i'm always chasing that feeling, but after almost 2 yrs, it seldom returns....Angela, when will you be off the sub??? i really hope i'm not putting to much hope in this..i know i have to do my part, but i'm hoping the sub does most of the work..~~~~~~~~~lisa, did you call today( ps.of course i deleted all history/cookies, funny you thought of that too) well 4 more hrs [:I]

[Kaidog]

cranky:

The truth be known, I've got almost 400 10/325 Norco's in a locked safe in my house. Yeah, you read that right four hundred. (All obtained legally through legit Rx). The temptation is great but I really am feeling much better today, inspite of the no sleep thing.

nymommy: Boundless energy is EXACTLY what drew me to these things. Like so many before me, the initial exposure was for some very real pain issues which still exist to some degree although nothing like a few years ago. What astonished me was the energy I got from them They allowed my rapidly aging body to perform as I once did 20 years ago and to accomplish really astonishing things for an old guy. Now I find myself 6 years later and who knows how many thousands of pills later. Been clean 3 X before. Once for even 4 months but work demands or genuine pain have drawn me back in each time. Sure hope this time is different.

Looking forward to many, many months, years of clean time.

Feeling better although still rather punky.

[cranky]

Kaidog - If you don't mind my asking, how many were you taking before you quit? I took two a week for many years, then went to four a week, then - early this year, 2-4 per day, which rapidly escalated to 8-12 per day. The last few weeks I was up to alomst 20 (wanted to "get rid of them"). What's going on with that kind of pattern - I'm not sure. I'm just wondering what threshold you're coming from - I'm an old guy too - lol

[Kaidog]

cranky:

Escalation.................... the defining term for opiate addiction! LOL.

It all started 6 or 7 years ago when I left my long time Dr., a friend actually because he was so hesitant to prescribe pain meds to me even though he KNEW I had really legitimate pain issues from on the job injuries. Broken bones and several disc problems coupled with arthiritis. Anyway, I left him and found a pain Dr. who was LIBERAL with the Rx pad, (and still is, hence the 400 pills at home).

Once I started going to this new Dr., and due to the energy the afforded me, I rapidly escalated from the 4-5 / day to 8 then 10-12 and eventually 20-25/day ocassionally 30 or so. I have always been a workaholic and the pills enabled me to once again compete with my body. Two years ago I had another serious injury, almost died really when I was in an accident and broke almost every rib and a few other bones. My crew, (I am a business owner) were amazed beyond words that I only took 4 days off of work. Little did they know that I had more than a little help.

I've just always been wired that way. I'm the kind of guy that thinks that if an ounce / gallon of Round-Up works well than 4 ounces / gallon ought to work great! I become obsessed with something and you can't pry it out of my teeth. I was that way when I fell in love with guitar as well. I spent who knows how many hours with my guitar in my lap untill I was really accomplished, (classical, semi classical and finger style).

That coupled with the fact that God has blessed me with an almost unlimited income, well............ it does have limits of course but WAY beyond anything I had ever invisioned. That's why I have a stable of some of the finest guitars anywhere in the world. I'm not sure that has anything to do with my romance of the Norcos but it SEEMED pertinent as I was typing it! LOL

Anyway, this time when I had decided to get clean again, I was taking the 20 to 30 per day. I had just returned from Europe and decided enough is enough. I immediately cut back to 10 a day, then 5, then 3 where I stayed for better than a week. It was evident to me that I was just prolonging the inevitable so I just quit. I know that the taper, even though it was really dramatic, has reduced the withdrawals but they have been a kick in the groin none the less.

I have tried to focus on the positive and channel that same pit-bull mentality that I have applied to everything else in my life to this. That's part of why I post so much I guess.

I am a 25 year old guy trapped in a 55 year old body! How'd that happen anyway?

Sorry for the novel but it is theraputic in a way I guess.

Best to you. Keep fighting. Never give up. Never give in.

[LISA GIRL]

Kaidog... Great and interesting post.. You really are an inspiration to the rest of us.

NY MOMMY... I forgot that you were getting the sub at the doc's today and starting later. I guess that is why you got the 6 pills for today (duh.) I did call the doc's today and had to leave yet another message. My last one was Friday and no one called me back. In the meantime I was approached by my boss who if you remember is one of my Lortab connections. Since I didn't know when I could get into the docs, I told her I would buy another 40 but that was IT.. that I was going to try to quit. It's really a conflict of interest having your boss being your connection. And I am still feeling guilty about cutting off an extra source of income for the two people I get them from. I know she is trying to get a down payment together for her new house and I make 2-3 times what she does. I have got to stop feeling sorry for, and owing to, people who are contributing to my demise!!! It was a bad day. Just one of those, maybe I'll just live with this days. There seem to be more and more of those lately.
[xx(]

[Kaidog]

BTW, in one hour it will officially be day 7 for me. Never thought I'd make it this far. Only seems like a month or so!

[Kaidog]

(Posting To Myself)

Officially day 7!!!!!!!!!

Now, if I can just SLEEP!!!!!!!!!!

Why of why oh why do we allow ourselves to get into these situations?

[Lazer]

Just a suggestion Kaidog. Can't you take just 1 before you go to sleep just to get a good nights rest and then wean off of the one by breaking it in half, etc. Good luck.

[Lazer]

[b]Question. I am experiencing sweating when I am taking my 12-13 Darvocets a day. I sweat if I don't take the meds after a period of time or after I take them. Any similar experiences? I sweat profusely!

[nymommy]

im baaaaack, went to my 10:00 pm appt @ 9:00 pm he took me @ 9:30, here's the funny part; sitting in the office and someone calls out my name..i was afraid to look up...yep one of my son's moms..we are actually friendly as well...she was there taking her sis-in-law i said i was there for chronic pain (more like chronic lying) this **** only happens to me..when i told my sister she was laughing her ass off...anyway, doctor was fine...gave me a prescription..told me drug store has it(seems not all have it)..going back on wed. morning@ 8:30 AM ..i need to be 12 hrs w/o...so tommorrow @ 3:00 pm.i'll take my last one...go to bed early and take my dose @ his office..he says 5-6 a day im taking is very small..feels confident i'll to well..aso suggested physco therapy..and i'm gonna do it feel really good about this...biggest bummer no wine at allhe says i should be tapered off in 6-8 weeks.~~~~~~~~~~lisa pls dont be discouraged, or it could be like i have said earlier, maybe your not ready..you will be one day, last month i wasnt ready, then something just clicked..i cant pin point it..dont get me wrong i'm scared...but im more afraid of being a "lifer"....~~~~~~~~~~~cranky my sons would be very impressed w/ your guitars..they are awesome musicians (classic rock) personally, i'd get rid of that stash you have..WOW

[nymommy]

i meant to type "one of my son's friends mom" duh..long day

[mpvt]

Sweating can be caused by a number of things,sweating at night is common for opiate addicts.To much tylenol makes people sweat,12-13 darvocets isn't alot but it's enough after a few years to start making the liver sick.Be careful and try to get away from all the tylenol(apap)......Dave

[LISA GIRL]

style="margin:20px; margin-top:5px; ">

quote:Originally posted by nymommy

i meant to type "one of my son's friends mom" duh..long day

LOL. I was really wondering about that one mommy. Thought maybe they did it differently in NY. lol. So glad you are on track...I KNOW EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY what you are talking about something just clicked for you. That's how it was for me last year. One day i woke up, decided to quit, went cold turkey, just stopped. No indecision. Nothing. Then 3-4 months later I picked up a pill. That is why it is so important that when you get clean you never ever think you can try it again. I know I have said that a couple times before but I can't stress it enough. This time around I feel like I just feel like i SHOULD feel like it's the responsible thing to do. It's not so much wanting to do it, just a nagging feeling like I should. Kind of like waking up each day and going to work. You may not really WANT to go. But you just know that is what you SHOULD do. I am hoping that once you are well into the treatment your experience will encourage me. I think I'll go back and read Angela's posts again. I really think alike--good or bad.

Maybe I am not there yet again. But I really don't think I will ever be. My dosage is up lately. Looking at $1200/+ month. That's***********ridiculous. I don't care if you have millions (which I don't) there are still better things for people to do with their money.

[Lazer]

Dave, does that mean I have a problem with my Liver? Dave, you seem to be very knowledgeable about these topics. I know you are on other boards but it would be nice if you can answer some of our questions. It really helps. Thanks.[8D]

[Angela H]

Way to go Kaidog! You should be past the worst of it! We are so proud of you. What are you gonna do with 400 pills? That would be too temtpting to me! Anyway, keep up the good work...you've got what it takes!
Lisa~ You are so sweet. You'll be ready when you are ready...it's just that endless supplies of pills are never that! I thought I had access to them anytime, too, but times when my guy wouldn't return my calls or the pharmacy said it was "too early" to get a refill started happening more frequently or maybe I was taking more than I ever had before...plus there were other things I wanted to buy with my money....and never was able to because all the money went for pills. It sucked hind tit!!!!!!
Mommy~ way to go! So when do you start the sub? Did he say you cannot take your doc for 10 hours prior? Just curious. Also...most pharmacies do not carry Sub. I was only able to find 2 in my city that carry it. Lots said they could order it and it would take a week or so to come in. Did you get Suboxen or Subutex?
I'm on day 2 with no Sub...can't wait to see how this goes. I'm feeling good so far. Gonna keep a positive attitude.
Funny thing happenened yesterday...a guy I know that would occasionally call to see if I wanted to buy pills sent me a text yesterday to see if I "needed anything." I texted back "no thank you" and to my surprise he said "wish I could say that." That was a proud moment for me.
Anyway, hang tough everyone...I'm rooting for all! We can beat this guys...it's mind over matter! Now...let's go conquer the world!

[unclenasty93]

kaidog, Good job!! Now for a reality check. Yes, you certainly seem to be a strong individual, no, you are not stronger than addiction. If you want to stay clean you MUST get rid of the 400 pills you have. There is no way on God's green earth that you will stay clean for long with 400 hydrocodone in your posession. It's not a matter of how strong you are or how much willpower you have, it is a disease and it is very very very powerful. Take it from me, I have years of experience with this, you will eventually dip into that stash. I want you to stay clean, you have done amazingly well so far, get rid of the Norcos!! Keep goin strong!

[Angela H]

Lazer~
About the sweating....when I was taking Lortabs, I sweated all the time. I would sweat when I was on the pills and wake up all sweaty in the morning. It was gross. Are you sweating all the time or just upon waking? Another thing that was interesting was that I was always hot when everyone else was comfortable or cold. Did anyone else experience this? I read somewhere that opiates mess with your body tempurature regulation. I swear, it was weird...I would be burning up at work...literally have sweat beads on my face and my co-workers kept asking if I was okay. Of course I live in Louisiana where our summers seem to last forever and is not unusual to have 10 days of 100 or more degrees in a row. Anyway, just found that interesting and was wondering if anyone else experienced that.