[unclenasty93]

lisa girl, Dilaudid is a very powerful, schedule 2 narcotic. It is in the same class and similar to Morphine, Fentanyl, Demerol etc.. Dilaudid is quite possibly the strongest of all the pain meds. It is 6 to 8 times more powerful than morphine. It is not something you would be on unless you were recovering from surgery or had cancer or kidney stones etc.. I crush them up, dissolve them and shoot them. It is very close to doing heroin, which I have never nor would ever touch. I was introduced to it a little over 2 years ago by an using buddy. Until that day I had never stuck a needle in my arm and I thought I never would. I had always just taken percs or vics and only orally. When he shot me up that first time it was better than anything I had ever felt in my life! My addiction to dilaudid and injecting is so much more powerful than my addiction to oral percocet ever was. To any addict out there who has never injected drugs, NEVER EVER EVER TRY IT!!!!!!!!!!! It will take you down hard!

p.s. I'm very glad to hear about everybodys appointments with suboxone doctors

[unclenasty93]

osagewoman, Do anything you can to not let your husband mix alcohol and xanax!!

[Kaidog]

It's been 59 hours since I last used, which makes this day three. Words can not describe how difficult last night was. I can't begin to tell you all how many times I got up and actuall had pills in my mouth, more correctly, holding them between my lips. Each time I would pray for the strength to resist and each time I was given that strength. I had absolutely drenching night sweats, the kind where you have to get up and change the sheets because the bed is so wet. Eventually, sleep fled from me and I got up, yet again, this time for good.

I did a bit of cyber surfing, watched a bit of T.V. but mostly just sat there in the darkness and quiet of the house, taking stock of my situation. I thought of how I have read of other's "clean date" here on this site and the whole concept of having months and months of being clean seamed so unattainable, so impossible to acheive. Here I was fighting out the ticks of the clock, one at a time, trying to stack one on top of the next untill they had become a minute.

"O.K., T.C., that's one minute."
"Now go for another."
"After 60 you've got an hour."

I would get up from the chair and grab a few pills and back between my lips they would go.

"Just a few to knock off the edge T.C."
"After all, you've got to sleep."
"Go ahead."
"Nobody does this cold turkey do they?"

Each time however God gave me the strength to resist and back into the bottle they would go. Eventually at 3:30 a.m. I felt a lot better, so much so that I was able to jump into the shower and wash away the grunge from the night sweats. I shaved, dressed and came into the office.

I am amazed at how much better I feel today than I did yesterday. Don't misunderstand, I still feel really sluggish but after what I wnet through last night, I'll gladly accept any improvement and be glad. Having danced with this devil before however, I know that the ugliness will return for another round.

In any event, I'll take my victories an hour at a time, a minute at a time if need be.

Thank you all for the posts you put-up here. They are a constant source of encouragement, even if they are not addressed to me, or to anyone in particular. They are, like I hope this post is, a windo into the heart and a portrait of one's soul.

God Bless you all.

[nymommy]

kaidog amazing...is there a reason you didnt consider the subonex..i could never do it ct..just what you described alone scares me to death..you're gonna make..keep on keeping on

[cranky]

Day four of no pills for me - I think the worse is over, just a little jittery today. I'm coming out of the fog and - it's awesome. I haven't felt "real" in almost a year -it's worth the discomfort just to get here. I've been taking my God-send Kratom a couple of times a day to deal with the physical WD - couldn't do it without - I can't enough about how much it really helps. Just wanted to tell others out there - hang in! They say the WD last "only a few day to a week, like it's nothing when every minute is painful, and each hour lasts forever. I know how very, very difficult it is, but it's do-able. More, later!

[Kaidog]

cranky:

Congratulations on the 4 days. I rmpathize with you and know how difficult it is. It's great to hear that you are feeling better.

Hang in there and stay the course.

[Kaidog]

nymommy:

I'm not sure I can accurately explain why I opted for the ct rather than some other form of "treatment". Maybe it was an anger thing. Just being really pissed at myself for having let this thing get as far out of hand as I had. Kinda like pennance I suppose. In any event, I used that anger and targetd it on the withdrawals themselves.

It has been tough, really tough but God has been faithful and so far at least, I'm clean.

It sure is weird to experience as the fog lifts from the old thinker and normal thinking patterns return.

Good luck with your own struggles.

[Lazer]

Way to go cranky. It takes a very strong person to do what you are doing. I feel I can say that we are all rooting for you.

[tigerman]

Cranky
Do you get Kratom at an herb shop or mail order?If you get it @ the herb shop,are U from the Neast,Seast,Southwest,or Northwest?After reading about it I can't believe its legal in the U.S. But it sounds like a lifesaver.
Tigerman

[LISA GIRL]

Cranky and Kaidog... Keep up the great effort! The physical part is almost over for both of you. I totally related to the pennance thing that you were talking about Kaidog. Quitting C/T for me was much the same thing. And WOW do you feel good about yourself after that. I just don't know that I want to do it that way again. If I didn't have to work I would try that again
just as a reminder to myself that I don't want to get started again. But for now, I'll try the sub route.


Uncle Nasty. I am so sad for you. I pray that you get your addiction under control before it kills you. It sounds like you have it worse than any of us. Remember all things are possible thru God!
People talk about feeling normal. It's funny when you become addicted you don't feel "normal" unlessl you are on the pills. Then when people are off the pills they say they feel "normal again" People who are suboxone say they feel "normal" again too. I wonder if they feel closer to being clean or being high. What does "normal" feel like??? Do any of us really know anymore?

[nymommy]

lisa. ..normal for me would be not taking 5-7 vic's a day.. plain and simple..truly do not remember what that feels like, but i'm eager to know..did you get a new appt..yes i might be harrassing you into another appt..cmon we can do this together..in the mean time, i'm going out w/ a bang..3 more days..and i'm DONE..how bout you??????????

[LISA GIRL]

Keep on harassing me! I need to get in there. I did call. I got machine. I left message. Dr. called. Got machine. Left mesage. (Repeat) I did leave a message saying that they should just pick a date and time and I will be there. The sooner the better. I told the boyfriend. Now I HAVE to do it. I ate a lot of pills today though. Not sure how many.. I lost count.. Don't even feel good. I think the fun went out of them long ago when I started taking them all the time and all day long. I thought I just needed them to feel good/normal. Cannot wait to feel the REAL normal again.

So excited for you to begin the battle. You will do wonderfully I'm sure. I wish we were starting a little closer together but I have quit before and although I know it will be diff on the sub, you have a lot of people here to support you and cheer you on. You will be soooo glad you made this choice. I promise.

Too many pills=tired Lisa... Have a good night everyone!

[nymommy]

lisa..i went from my safe 5 a day..right to 7 ..some days i don't count ..who want's to know what a loser i really am..prior to this NEVER exceeded 5, maybe 6...but now ..wow! who gives a f***...actually cant wait till monday, although the part about being in moderate wd's is scaring me..after all, i've been keeping myself OUT of wd's on a daily basis..yes i'm scared.....but more looking forward to it than not (if that makes sense)...i am in awe of anyone going ct..amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Angela H]

Mommy~
Wow! You're almost there! I'm so excited about your treatment. I'm gonna be here waiting to hear how it goes. Please post everything...it's exciting to see progress! Hang in there....you're almost there!

Lazer~
I am sooooo proud of you! Making that appt. was the first step and took a lot of guts! You are awesome and are going to do just fine! Can't wait to hear all about it.

Lisa~
Please keep calling and get that appt. sooner rather than later. I'm rooting for you. Your'e gonna be just fine. I was reading one of your earlier posts about just being an opiate addict..."cuz everyone has their thing"...it amazes me how much we think alike. I thought the exact same thing many times when I was heavily addicted. The thing about it is though....as someone said earlier, it's soooo progressive. Because, let's say you're taking 7 a day now. In about 3 months, it would be up to 10 or 12 and then another month or so....15-18...and so on. And then before you know it...30-35. The thing is...where would your ceiling be? And then, the more you are taking...the harder it is to get off. 6-10 a day is hard to get off...can you imagine getting off of 30 a day? I know it can be done...but why put yourself through that? And everyday that goes by that you're still using, is another day for your tolerance to get higher and need more pills. See what a vicious cycle this is? Anyway, I'm in your corner, baby! Good Luck to you and everyone here. I'll be praying for all...please pray for me, too. Love you guys! Angela

[Angela H]

OH! I forgot....

I'M 31 days clean of Lortabs today!

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[LISA GIRL]

Angela that's great!!!! And I know you are right about the progression. So far my thinking has been that I have kept it under control, but I know that taking them at 9 am is not "under control." I WILL get that appointment made and I will stop. Thank you for all your help here. So glad to have found this forum and someone so much like me! You and NMMommy have been especially good sources of motivation! As it gets closer to the day I will be e mailing you regarding some other questions I have.. or just to babble

NYMOMMY.. I wouldn't worry too much about the mild w/d that you need to be in before the sub. I just think you should schedule it for a time you can be home. I wouldn't want to be at work or around any people for that matter. You will mostly feel cold and irritated, EDGY/Anxious at first. Well you know how you feel when you go longer than normal from taking a pill. Just know that is normal and know that it will be over soon. From what they say once you take the sub it is only a matter of time before you begin to feel ok again.. I would do it during the day. The worst of w/d comes at night it seems...those bed sweats and restless legs. You want to avoid that.. I don't have kids but I know you do,and I'm sure having been thru CHILD BIRTH this will be a breeze!

[girlie girl]

Angela, [:X] 31 days is awesome!!!! How did you do it? Wean or cold turkey? How bad where thw wds? You should go shopping and get yourself a present!

Girlie Girl

[Kaidog]

Angela:

31 days!!!!!!!! A Big congratulations to you! What a huge acheivement. Please, please, please tell me how it feels, how YOU feel to be clean that long.

As for me, I am 4 days clean today. My Norco's are a first cousin to Lortabs, perhaps even the very same thing just in a different color. I was doing 25 to 30 Norco 10/325 a day. I reduced my daily intake and tapered down from the 30 or so to 10 a day and then 8 then 5-6 and finally just 2 or 3. This was over the course of almost two weeks. Once I hit the 2 or 3 I stayed there for a week but knew I was just prolonging the enivitable and I just quit all together.

In any case, you should feel a huge sense of accomplishment. Congratulations again.

[Angela H]

Lisa, Girlie, and Kaidog~
Thank you so much for the encouragement and the congrats! Y'all are great friends and a great support team. Everyone on this board has been so helpful. When I was first realizing I had a problem and thinking I needed help...I came here every day and read stories. I read for weeks before I actually started posting. This forum has saved my life...because relating to other people that know what you're going through is extremely helpful. It's not like you can talk to friends at work about it...because unless you've been there or been close to someone who's been there...you don't understand. And it's not exactly like you want anyone to know either. For most of us, it's a dark secret and embarassing. For me, the fewer people thatknew, the better. Once I started treatment, I told my family. They are all so supportive and proud of me. My mother calls everyday to check on me and always tells me how proud she is of me. That means more to me than she could possibly know. She doesn't have any addiction issues, but wants what's best for me.
Kaidog~ I feel like a new person off the pills. Like I've been reborn again. Corny, huh? I was up to 10 Lortab 10s a day, but had been using recreationally for 5 years. When I realized I was out of control, I decided to try to wean off myself. Big Mistake! I don't know how people do that. I mean, I know they do....but I certainly couldn't. If I have pills, I will take them...and not reponsibly....TO GET HIGH! That was all I cared about, but I wasn't getting high anymore and it PISSED me off! The only thing they did for me by then was keep withdrawals away. It wasn't fun anymore. I had about 20 pills left and tried to wean down. Went from 10 a day to 3...2 the next day, 1 1/2 the next. I was in such awful withdrawal, I couldn't work or hardly get off the couch for that matter. I was freezing one minute- burning up the next. Nose was running, shaking, restless legs, twitches...AWFUL! So I picked up the phone and called my doctor. He saw me that day...took one look at me and asked if I was withdrawing. He could tell just by taking one look at me. I was crying and begging him to help me. He told me about Sub treatment and said he had 3 spots left (they can only treat 30 patients at a time with Sub). Didn't even think about it and told him "I want it." He wrote me a script for Subutex and I immediately went and filled it at the pharmacy. I dissolved it under my tongue and within 20 mins felt normal for the first time in a LONG time. All the withdrawals went away as well as the cravings. I noticed I was thinking clearly, which I had not done in a long time. My energy was back and I was looking forward to the future. Now I'm not gonna say this has been easy, but it's the first time in a long time that I was actually looking forward to my future. Everyday is better than the last. I'm taking very small amounts of Sub every other day (1/2 mg.). I'm planning to be off of them within a week.
Anyway, didn't mean for this to be so long. I hope I can help others because they sure have helped me. All you guys are doing great and as I've said before, don't hesitate to email or PM if you want to talk privately. I would be honored.
Love y'all! Be tough...it's all about you BABY!
Love, Angela

[cranky]

I get Kratom over the Internet, it's totally legal, only the sellers have to post that it's "not for human consumption" www.jennymacs.com and www.kratomking.com are both reputable sellers. They're kinda hippy-dippy, but who cares. I'm on day 5 norco-free, and Kratom is running low, so I'm feeling a little hinky, but nothing like straight-out WD, which I've experienced in the past, just kind of headachy. Mostly I've had problem with sinus pressure, teary eyes, etc. - anyone? I'm just REALLY looking forward to when this stuff is completely out of my system (another week?). I can honestly say that for the last two days I've had no desire for narcotics - I hope it lasts. Yes, kratom is a complete life saver - I highly recommend it for WD - it's nothing short of amazing.

[unclenasty93]

kaidog, I am HIGHLY impressed with your resolve, however, I think you are torchering yourself to much. Stay away from the narcotics, but if you are having nights that are that god awful you should be taking something for sleep and anxiety. You would really benefit from some valium or ativan or ambien... something! You seem to be very strong and keep it up, I just don't want you to suffer when there are meds that could help you. Good luck!!

lisa girl, ya, I am pretty ****ed up right now. The good news is that I have a lot of experience with this and I have had some long bouts of sobriety in the past. I know what it takes to be clean and how to get there and stay there, I just need to do it. I have been making myself get to the gym every day and work out hard. That has helped me feel better and I am drawing strength from it. I plan on being in treatment within the next week or two for sure. Thank you for your concern

[Kaidog]

cranky:

I visited the site you linked and they indeed look interesting. What I couldn't find though is any recommendation for dosing or even how to ingest it. Leaves? Powder? Capsules? Could you elaborate a bit?

Thanks a ton.

[cranky]

I've been getting the 15X kratom - the strongest and most expensive - I take about 1/2 a teaspoon and a big scoop of sugar (the taste is really nasty), add boiling water to make a tea (I cool it off with an ice cube) and choke it down - following with juice helps. Within 2-3 minutes, physical WD go away, and it lasts 3-5 hours. With the cheaper Kratom, you need 1-2 teaspoon. 3- grams will last about a week, so it's not cheap, but worth every dime. Tomorrow will be my day 6 of going off Norcos (10-15 per day for close to a year), so it'll be a true test of whether the kratom masks the WD symptoms or just postpones them. There are a LOT of discussion groups about this stuff, specifically how people use it for opiate addiction - just google something like "kratom opiate addiction" and you can do your own research. In Thailand (the only country where it's illegal), it's used in drug treatment programs kind of methadone or suboexene is used here.

[nymommy]

angela..so encouraged by your post..i am amost there, can not wait to be a truthful sober person again..people who know me would NEVER believe i'm in this situtation..never!!. im the go to person for advice..sensible etc..yea right...i know what you mean when you say you werent even getting high anymore..only my morning pills give me that euphoric feeling that got us all in trouble to begin with! when you say you went to your doctor and he gave you the sub, what kind of doctor..and were you a patient of his prior?? i might take you up on the email invitation..as i will need support..ps i also tried tapering .if i have them i do them..plain and simple if i didn't stumble upon this website, i would have never known about sub..or alot other things ~~~~~~~~~~~lisa your next!!!!!

[LISA GIRL]

nmmomy. you are right. It is only the first ones of the day that seem to do anything.. when your tummy is empty. I have gotten so that I have even questioned if my "guy" was giving me placebos b/c my tolerance has become so high. Just counted. I have 30 pills left. That should hopefully get me thru til I can get the appointment. Maybe. Maybe not. Probably not

[Angela H]

Mommy~
He's a family practice doctor and yes I was a patient of his prior, as well as a fairly close friend. We run in the same social circle and became friends before I became his patient. Then my doctor retired, so I thought... what the hell....I'll use him. He's been giving them to me recreationally for years...and for years they were recreational. 4 years to be exact....and then one day...BAM...I crossed over.
When I began treatment and took my first dose of Sub at 4:30 in the afternoon, I had had 1/2 of a Lortab 10 at about 8:30 that morning. But that was after a really quick taper over 4 days. I just couldn't take it anymore.
Anyway, I'm excited about your treatment. I'll be right there with ya sister! Contact me anytime.
BTW...did you say you live in Louisiana?

[nymommy]

angela..that was great that he was able to precribe sub..i thought there were all sorts of regulations regarding that..it's great that your being treated by someone who has a vested interest in you....i live in new york, and if you heard me talk you would of never thought otherwise~~lisa 30 pills,sounds like alot dosent...i dont remember when you said your appt was..[?][?][?]

[Kaidog]

Day 5

Last night was difficult again. Not so much from the cravings but from the restless legs and the night sweats. Those really suck. I did manage to get 4 hours of sleep though and for that, I'm thankfull. What amazes me is that in spite of the lack of sleep, I feel pretty good.

I continue to feel the "fog" lifting from my mind and love the more clear headed, more focused thought processes.

It won't oficially be 5 days clean untill 6:00 p.m. tonight but as rapidly as I tapered down, I'm sure I was in withdrawal when I last dosed anyway. Anyway, 5 days is better than 1 and 1 is better than none.

Looking forward to many, many more clean days ahead.

[Kaidog]

cranky:

Have you finished with your Kratom? Let us know how you are doing. Congratulations for putting some clean days together.

[LISA GIRL]

Kaidog and Cranky.. Keep up the resolve! You are doing Great

NYMOMMY...I called Friday again and played phone tag with the scheduler. She's it. ( By the way I really hate that expression. Way overused ) My last message basically said give a time and I will be there. I'm really mad about me having to give up that first appointment but what can you do. I'm sure if I told my boss that it was really important than she would have allowed us to both be absent from the office for an hour. Although maybe not, she is one of my sources for the lorab. Kind of a conflict of interest!