[stacem30]

Hi Pilot,
I have to tell you some bad news. Yes tramadol/Ultram is very addictive. Which is majorly unfortunate for me because if it wasn't, I would take them constantly. I was on Ultram for years. It's similar to a narcotic in that it produces that false sense of self worth. It makes you feel really good. The only reason I think they don't classify it as a narcotic is because it doesn't produce a euphoria. Or an itch. It definately has more of a phsychological addiction to it. If you read up on the internet about it, there's a lot of information on the drug. However instead of taking 2 ultram a day, I was taking about 8 or more. And with hydro's I was taking almost 50 per day. So I'd just be very careful. And from what info I've gotten lately on tramadol/ultram, they are getting ready to classify it as a narcotic soon.
God Bless and good luck hon,
Stace

[pilot]

Thanks Stace,
I am seeing my Dr. with this concern. I have told her that I only take two a day and would that be ok..? She seems to think so. What you said would explain why I feel "good" when I take the tramadol. Besides having no pain it does seem to make me feel good. Take care and thanks for the feedback.

[piersuzanne1]

MS]
Hi there -
I just discovered this site as I plugged in the command "how long does it take to detox from Lortab 7.5's?" Imagine my surprise/horror/delight at finding all of you other junkies! I am a married mother of three who had a disasterous hip surgery last year. I am for all intensive purposes crippled and have always enjoyed fabulous good health and extreme athletics. I have never taken a pain pill before, other than when I had my three children and my boob job! I've had dental work done, etc. and was always able to leave the pain medication alone. I am finding myself in the same position as many of you, I've been cut off meds by orthopeadic, have been farmed out to pain management, am prescribed 120 Lortab 7.5 (down from 180 Lortab 10's!!) per month, and ooops, guess what? I ran out early and am now five days into cold turkey withdrawal. It sucks! I too want to get off this crazy merry-go-round and get back to my life. I may never be the same physically with my leg and hip (they cut the muscle that runs down the length of my leg in two places and it has formed serious scar tissue), but I wonder how those with chronic pain issues get through it. So far I have tried acupuncture (not bad), but I don't dig needles, and obviously tylenol, etc. but the pain is unbelievable (and yes I believe you!) and it would help to know what some of you might have done to get through this, and oh yes, how long the withdrawals last. Let me know! Thanks, Pier

[stacem30]

I hear ya girl, it's hard and it totally sucks! However it doesn't matter if you're addicted to Lortab 5's, 7.5's, 10's or 15's, and yes they make them compounded. When you're hooked you're hooked and it's one strong hook that gets hold of a lot of people! I was receiving 360 #10 hydro's per month and would go through all of them in 2 wks or less! So I know all about it. When those would run out I'd buy them over the internet and have them delivered to my front door. Doc that was prescribing them ran a casper on me and saw that I was doc shopping and cut me off totally. Even though I just about died, or felt like I wanted to, it was probably the best thing he could've done for me. Even though that happened though I still kept getting more, but they were all on the net, just many different providers and tons of money going down my throat, so to speak. Best thing you could do for yourself if you're already on day 5 is to just go off them cold turkey because as far as the withdrawels go, you're about done physically. Emotionally/Mentally though you've got a while. But if you can tough that out, keep a positive attitude then you will beat it instead of letting it beat you! I too had a boob job, lypo suction, tummy tuck, caesarean birth, hysterectomy, tonsilectomy......damn, you name it I've had it done. So I had pain all the time. But believe me and I'm serious about this. Pain pills don't really get rid of pain. If you think about it really hard when you've got them in you, you're still in pain. It's just that they make you high so that you're mind can kinda ignore the pain. But when we take these pills, it's not letting the pain signals go from the brain to the injury so it can heal itself quickly. We mask that pain and if our body never gets to let those receptors naturally do their work, then our bodies don't heal properly. I've had dental surgery lately and let the pain go and it only lasted 1 day! If I'da taken pain medicine I guarantee it woulda hurt for 4 or 5 days. God made our bodies to take care of themselves, and heal themselves. But because some of us love that euphoric high, we want the pills which in turn messes up God's machine! You're on the right track chicky! Get on these message boards every day and develop some friendships with these people cuz they're great! And if you have extra time, look up where there are NA and AA meetings you can go to. They can actually be fun! I love going to mine! Take care and if you have any questions, I'll do what I can to help!
Good luck and God bless!
Stace

[mpvt]

stacie is right, if your on day 5 then your through the worst part.Now comes the hard part and that's staying off them.But,as you say you have a chronic hip problem then your going to need narcotics to kill the pain.I would suggest you ask your doctor for a sustained release narcotic.They work by keeping your blood serum level at a constant.So you usually only have to take them once every 8 hours.The doctor can order ms contin (sustained release morphine) for your chronic pain and statex(fast acting morphine) for your break thru pain.Just remember, if your going to take these meds then you have to accept the fact that your going to become dependent on them(not addicted,if you take them as directed).Good luck and let us know how you made out........Dave

P.S.I have had chronic pain for 25 years and have been on most of the popular pain killers out there.I take methadone now as it's the only one that will work for me and is hard to build a tolerance to........Dave

[Miles]

It appears that many posters hold that drugs cause addiction and that loss of control is a corollary of the addiction. I need some help understanding this phenomenon.

Is addiction not a form of behavior? Does behavior not have reasons, as contrasted with just being "caused?" How can drugs "cause" addiction any more than having genitals can cause sexual perversions? Is not the word "addiction" a value judgment... to wit the behavior of smoking is now called addiction?

Addiction is a stigmatizing term that is culturally conditioned. It reflects no property of the drug, but rather a property of the culture. It is not the drug that is addictive but rather a desire to continue with the feeling produced by the drug.

Some contend that changes in the brain make ones ability to control a particular piece of behavior most difficult, and in the presence of the drug, often impossible. The sport of boxing produces minute hemorrhages in the brain. Does the boxer return to boxing because of these changes or does the boxer return to make more money?

Bottom line: There may be two kinds of human beings - those who cannot control themselves and those who can.

Miles

[stacem30]

Well Miles,
I seem to have a problem with someone coming on the painkiller addiction board and talking to those of us with the disease like we are retarded and don't know the difference. Now please forgive me if I'm wrong and being snotty for no reason because I'm typically a total people pleaser, however after many years with this disease and finally realizing the problem, a lot of emotion goes through some of us even TALKING about this and admitting we have a problem. If what you're saying is true then why is it that a doctor warns everyone before he prescribes a pain killer that they are addictive? Most of us in this forum started out with having chronic pain and our physicians putting us on pain medication. We had to take this medication for so long that eventually our bodies became dependant. There are a lot of people however who haven't HAD to take the medicine but did it for recreational purposes to feel high. I don't know about most of us on here but I will tell you that after you've been on that medicine for any length of time, you don't feel high anymore. The reason most of us stay on it, is because, as we've experienced when we've run out, your body hates you when it doesn't get it anymore and the withdrawels are HORRIBLE. So we can't function without it is what I'm trying to say. Again forgive me if I'm telling you something you already know because you've been through this. But the tone in what you wrote came across very insulting to me. Addiction is a disease just like alcoholism and everything else. It's not something you can control. That medication, the best way I could ever describe to my family of non-addicts, becomes your blood. You take that away and you can't move. If you were coming here to addict bash, please go elsewhere. We're all here to help and support each other and that really wasn't necessary and it's hurtful. And one more thing, to compare our addiction to a boxer who gets hemorages in his brain when he's bashed in the head is ludacris! Let me explain something educational to you that I learned in treatment. God created every single one of us with a certain amount of pain and pleasure receptors. However when a doctor, lets say, puts you on pain medication or we put drugs into our bodies that alter those receptors, the natural one's we're born with go on vacation, so to speak, and the addict/dependant grows new ones. When that drug is no longer being fed to those receptors in the brain, and our natural ones are on vacation, those new receptors are screaming FEED ME, FEED ME DAMNIT! It takes almost a year and can take up to three years for those new drug induced receptors to die off and our natural ones to kick back in. Thats why it's so hard for people to stay clean and sober. Our brains aren't working properly. So no, we aren't bashing our heads in, as you say because we like it, our brains are demanding it! A boxer? Give me a break or use a better analogy.
Stace

[The Coach]

Miles get a clue. Do you suffer from chronic pain, ever had multiple surgeies or been with someone who has? If the answer is no then meet someone who has and spend some time with them, then maybe you will start to understand. Most people do not choose addiction it chooses them. Try this and then you might understand about pain, put a handfull of pebbles in your left shoe, wrap your left calf with an ace bandage (inside the bandage put some sandpaper), wrap your halmstring and inside that put a fork every 2 inches tines facing skin, put a couple handfulls of tacks on you left buttck cheeck and then find a solid backed back brace wear that (it must be 2 sizes too small). Do this for as long as you cand stand the pain, then tellus about how we choose to be addicted to drugs. Just so you know this is the first stage of multiple disc injuries. If you want to jump to the fianl stage because you know all, then just stick a knife in your buttock and slide it down too your calf everytime you move, stand, walk or sleep. Do this for 14 years then tell us about addiction.

[stacem30]

You tell him coach! That's exactly right on the nose!
Thanks for the backup! lol
Stace

[PrincessKimmy]

quote:Originally posted by mitzu

i agree...she will not have luck doing it on her own...i know first hand of the treatment with suboxone....it is phenomenal. easy transition...no withdrawal symptoms.... a must! www.suboxone.com
good luck!

my addiction to hydrocodone lasted the most recent two years. i had been using some xanax between my hydro weeks in an attempt to stop the drugs. I struggled and struggled and just couldn't do it myself. I was on day 3 CT off hydro and xanax when that Monday morning, I looked at my husband and said "please drive me to the hospital. I need help to detox off this...i just can't do it alone." THAT statement was SO HARD to say....But it's what I needed to do.

Detox in the hospital was painless and easy. IV meds every 4-6 hours alternating IV Phenobarbital (seizure precaution) and Buprenex (the beloved buprenorphine).

If I hadn't gone to the hospital, I KNOW I would have had a seizure. I CT'd off both hydro and xanax three days before and i was freaking out! Restless legs, aches, diarrhea, head pounding, dizzy. My dh couldn't get me to the hospital fast enought...well it is a 2-1/2 hour drive.

THREE days on the IV meds and you were done being detoxed and off on your merry way. I stayed tho for about 7 days of their treatment program just to see what it was about.

After discharge from the hospital, I had 26 days clean and then BOOM! I relapsed. I had never taken a 26 day break from hydro and I wanted to see if my tolerance had left me. What a surprise....IT DIDN'T!!! Just made me feel sick. I was not on Suboxone or any form of Buprenorphine at that time.

After messing up my 26 days, I spent the next three weeks ordering like a mad-woman. I had myself a post-treatment party.

When I realized what I was doing and how stupid it was, I totally kicked MYSELF in the butt...yelled at myself "What are you thinking?" These drugs that ruined so much of my life, here i was playing with them again.

Come Monday, I got on the phone and called a local Suboxone doc and got in touch with an outpatient drug counselor. Since my relapse happened and ended, I went on Suboxone maintenance therapy ASAP!!!

Suboxone is truly a miracle medication for me in my instance. Bupe is showing me what a normal life is. Showing me how to be responsible again. I am a BETTER MOM today, not to forget that hubby says i am a better wife as well.

There is more drug stuff but i can't remember it all at one time....it'll have to be next time.....

Thank you for listening! If I can help anyone here, just give me a shout!!!

PrincessKimmy

***reach for the moon for if you miss, you will land among the **stars**

[nate26]

Hello,

I, like most of you reading this am also uffering through painkiller withdrawal. I havent really been on them for that long, only like a month 1/2 to two months. I have a question about the withdrawal process. I weened myself off during the past week, and during about day 4, I guess I "relapsed" and took a couple pills to get through work. Am I screwed? Do I have to start all over? how does this affect me? Thanks in advance.

[Miles]

Stace: My intent is not to insult but rather get some of you to look at your situations in a different light. Please accept my apologies for your offense at my remarks.

For example, addiction is not a disease as you allege. In medicine, the core meaning of the term disease is lesion.

Manipulating things is difficult, sometimes impossible. Manipulating names is easy - we do it all the time. Violet may be the name of a flower, or a color, or a woman, or a street. Similarly, a disease-sounding term may be the name of a bodily malfunction, or the malfunction of a car, a computer, an economic system, or the behavior of an individual or group. We cannot distinguish between the literal and metaphorical uses of the term "disease" unless we identify its root meaning, agree that it is the literal meaning of the word, and treat all other uses of it as figures of speech. In conformity with traditional medical practice, I take the root meaning of disease to be a bodily lesion, understood to include not only structural malfunctions but also deviations from normal physiology, such as elevated blood pressure or depressed red cell count.

Unlike bodily illnesses, mental illnesses are diagnosed by finding unwanted behaviors in persons or by attributing such behaviors to them. Bodily illnesses -- say, cancer or diabetes -- are located in bodies; mental illnesses -- say, kleptomania or schizophrenia -- are located in social contexts. Robinson Crusoe could suffer from cancer, but not from kleptomania.

Mental diseases are diagnoses, not diseases. Conversely, psychiatric diagnoses (however constructed) are, by definition, mental diseases (or "disorders," to use the mental health professionals' preferred weasel word).

Diseases are physical. They are diagnosed by symptoms (complaints) and signs (lesions), or by signs alone (asymptomatic diseases). They are rarely diagnosed on the basis of symptoms alone (there are a few exceptions, such as migraine headache). "Addiction" is not listed in standard textbooks of pathology because it does not meet the nosological criteria for disease classification. This is because addiction is "diagnosed" solely on the basis of symptoms. There are no signs of addiction. All pathologists agree: Addiction is not a disease.

Addiction simply does not exist: public health is trying to reduce gluttony to figures and percentages, thus arrogantly attempting to reduce human beings to quantum entities. This pathetic attempt may serve the agendas of pharmaceutical industries and opportunist politicians, but it is not reality. People are not addicted: they simply make choices based on cost-benefit, and rewards. They are not sick, and they do not need any cure by the Therapeutic State. Unloading personal responsibility on others seems to be the unfortunate excuse of a spoiled generation, that has chosen to point the finger at anyone or anything to justify its guilt for overindulgence and its legitimate desire for pleasure and joy of living. That makes today's society rabidly puritanical. We do not readily recognize this, since our new puritanism is superficially different from the old, having become more open about sex and having removed religious and overtly moral references from the discussion. Instead we have the language of health, language about the body, not the spirit. It is a self-deception.

Miles

[JBowski13]

You have way to much time on your hands. So you read one book on addiction and think your a doctor now. If you have kids, here's a warning: They're going to find out that mommy/daddy is full of ******** one day. Untill then, you keep up your opinions to make yourself feel good. have a good day Doc

[stacem30]

I totally agree w/u Jbowski!

And Miles as for all of your rambling garbage, which you do because you have nothing better to do than get on a site where all of us come together to help one another and give each other support, here's what I enjoyed most of your little non informational jargon....

Your words:
People are not addicted: they simply make choices based on cost-benefit, and rewards. They are not sick, and they do not need any cure by the Therapeutic State. Unloading personal responsibility on others seems to be the unfortunate excuse of a spoiled generation, that has chosen to point the finger at anyone or anything to justify its guilt for overindulgence and its legitimate desire for pleasure and joy of living.

Out of everything you said Miles, you said absolutely NOTHING, and I guarantee you Jbowski, that Miles read no book about Addiction. Had he, he would know that in fact, it is classified as a disease. You wouldn't tell someone with cancer to just quit hurting or to get better. What an idiot! I'm sorry......actually no I'm not. Please take yourself elsewhere. Maybe to a "save the whales" message board and tell them how stupid they are, because we really have no interest in anything you have to say. Keep coming on here and we'll report you. Have it your way. Because unlike you, we all like to get together in fellowship and help others. It makes us happy. I'm so sorry for you, you must be a very miserable person with no friends who has nothing to do than get on an extremely important recovery forum and tell everyone in your own special roundabout way, how stupid they are. What a sad man you are. I sincerely hope you find happiness somehow. Maybe one day you'll find it in helping people, not hurting them.
Stace

[JBowski13]

Hay Stacem, if you have time, look at the other posts this guy did. I bet you hes that guy on the cell phone who talks loud so everyone can hear him. I dont know if I should feel sorry for this guy or be amazed how big of a nerd he is. Pills were my hobby, now i'm on suboxone. So maybe now my hobby can be to study this joke. Later

[stacem30]

Hey Jbowski!

So what other posts has written besides the two on this page? I replied to both of them. Let me know if you know of more than two. We can report him and get him off here. I've saved the two recent ones to turn in.
thanx,
stace

[ANSFAN17]

Hi Everyone....

I am so glad that I found this forum. I was searching the web with the key words "Weaning off painkillers", and found this forum. I have read alot of the posts here and feel compelled to write and join in for not only support, but to offer any, if I can. Although I don't see how at this point and time.

To give you sum background, I recently admitted to my self that I am an addict. At this point in time i am taking about 4-5 percocet 10/325 or percocet 10/650 per day. Sitting here at my computer wrting this I can recall a day and time when a regular Vicodin would make me so queasy I could't imagine taking one. I was originally perscribed Vicodin for kidney stones. To flash foreward 2 years, the only conclusion that I can come to while looking back, is that I self medicated for a horrible rollercoaster of a relationship that ended with a terrible breakup after nine years and coming out of the closet.

Im 30 years old and my life in a terrible state of dissary. I have gained probably about 40 pounds. I really have no desire to go out with my freinds anymore because I am so disgusted with myself. I've become so unenergenic and sedentary that it is incredible. The list goes on and on, It all seems to be a chain reaction originating from painkiller abuse. I am just a shadow of the good looking, bigger than life fireball I was always known to be.

The have gone without my pills when I have run out before. And it was the absolutly the horrific and haunting. I thought I was gonna either going to have a heart attack or stroke at anytime. Not that this doenst worry me while I continue this abuse to my body. Iam trying at all costs to aviod the withdrawls if possible. I think that will be the major hurdle.

Can anyone give me some info about this Suboxone. This is the first time I've heard of it. How do you go about getting it? Whats the cost. etc???

Thanking all of you in advance
Be Well
Anthony

[gretchens4]

Hello,
I am glad you found this board. I am presently taking suboxone and it does work to get rid of w/d and cravings. However (and I know you probably don't want to hear this), your use of percocet is very low in the scope of addiction. I was taking up to 30 hydro 10/325 a day (3x the tylenol level). For me it was life and death. I have learned that suboxone is a VERY strong and powerful opiate. It would cause you far more w/d if you went on it than 40-50 mg of percocet. It's incredibly strong. If you did use it to get off the percocet I think you should just do a rapid detox, not maitenance. If you do a search on suboxone you can find a doctor that prescribes in your area. I would think long and hard about it though, it is trading one addiction for another, and you are still at a manageable level of percocet. Maybe for you tapering off the percocet would be better maybe a 1/2 a pill every other day. I hear you about being a shadow of your former self....that is totally me!! The sub has helped with that, but it's still a lot of work. Good luck!
Gretchen

[JBowski13]

ANSFAN17, you can actually get put on suboxone. I have no clue why grethen feels percocet isnt that addicting. Of course to her, 30 pills a day compared to 5 isnt that great, but its still a problem. I was just put on Suboxone and my doc was great. I told him I'm addicted to pills for the last 5 years and nothing has worked. Once he put me on Suboxone, i told him I was nervous that I wouldnt qualify for it unless I was using harder stuff, oxycotin or heroin. He told me an opiate addiction is all the same regardless of the pill name. Go to www.suboxone.com and find the locator for your state. If your in Michigan, My doc is real good. He monitored my first two dosages, so i'm sure they'll do the same to you. Sorry Gretchen, but thats horrible advice.

[LILYDOG]

I know about addiction, etc. Partner and I both are, in and out of being clean.
My issue now, as well as my question is this:
Boyfriend has compound fracture in leg. ER and surgeon will perscribe no pain meds due to his addict status.
Now, it seems to me there was recent either an actual change of the rules or a very strong suggestion made to the medical community to not do this. Just because a person is an addict, with a real injury that [u]pain meds would be perscribed for as a matter of course whether patient was considered to be an addict or not. </u> That the practice of withholding pain meds when the need was clear, was found to be cruel, punitive and morally suspect practice of medicine. The info I read also went on to say that addicts, due to their tolerance to opiates, should actually be given higher doses because that is what is required to manage pain. This was all written by a group of physicians that challenged the DEA on writing pain perscriptions and they won. Anybody know what I am talking about and where I might find a copy of that paper?
TextTextTextOh, and how did I become an addict? Car wreck, caused further problems. into chronic pain, sent to pain doc, perscibed methadone. As my tolerance went up, I would mention it to him, his answer was to lower my dose. I learned to keep my mouth shut. Then, one time when I ran out of meds early, he gave me an UA which came up clean, and he kicked me off program.
I went to my regular MD, he was great, but retired. I decided with newest doc to come off the methadone. That was okay until I went into my first major pain flare-up, I went to doc, he reacted perdictablly by lowering my dose of Ultram. So, I hit the street. I don't want chronic pain, I did not chose it to take a lousy 12 mg. methadone a day

[Miles]

Holy Neuroleptics! The rage indeed runs amok among some posters - perhaps dosage levels should be reevaluated!

Stace, I have written published articles on addiction that say much the same thing I say here. If I missed any of the literature that "classifies" addiction as a "disease," then perhaps you can provide me with a cite to enlighten me. Otherwise, I find your elementary writings and those of JBowski13 most nescient on the subject of depression. If you wish to wallow in your delusions and attempt to "help others" (your words) with misinformed tripe, so be it. I chose another means to accomplish the same end in spite of your lack of tolerance for science and discourse.

Here is something to ponder before you launch your next rage at those with differing viewpoints from yours: Using a poll surveying the nation’s health, Parade magazine concluded that depression is “the third most common ‘disease.’” Yet when the respondents were asked, “What is your greatest personal health concern for the future?” they did not even mention depression. They were concerned about cancer and heart disease. Even though people have accepted the categorization of depression as a disease, they are not afraid of getting depression because they intuitively recognize that it is a personal problem, not a disease. They are afraid of getting cancer and heart disease because they know these are diseases - true medical problems - not just names.

Get back to me with your answer to this question and we will banter some more if you wish: is your depression outside your control? If it is, please explain why.

Miles

[aldee]

quote:Originally posted by dejeneration

I would love to join. I am not a mom but I do live at home taking care of my 5 year old brother, so you can say I am a surrogate. I would love to chat and get feedback, I am addicted to painkiller - pill of choice is vicodin, but with no job and no insurance they are hard to get. That is a good thing. I would love to join your group, just let me know. Is there a chat function that we can chat somewhere? Hope everyone is doing well.

J

[JBowski13]

Hey Miles, you have to tell me your purpose for your posts on here? Are you addicted to pills, once were addicted, or an addiction specialist trying to spread your knowledge. From my stand point, he just seem like a person who doesnt belong here. If not, i'm sorry and it wont happen again.

[stacem30]

No doubt J,
Miles you need to figure out if you're actually bringing anything into this forum besides animosity. If you're answer = no. Then get out. And if you're an addict......please tell us your probs and maybe we can help, IN ENGLISH.

[CheySapphire]

Hi! everyone, sorry Haven't post but I have been, working and then coming home and trying to cleaning my house the way it should be. I haven't done good, tryed to cut down took only three yeasterday.am starting to hate myself and am also starting to get anger not with anyone else but myself, cause this is my owne fault nobody else.I wish I would blame beable to blame someone but can't, I guess I just need to deal with it. gtg Susan I hope everyone else is doing better then me. see we got some new members welcome and good luck with your goal. Susan

Susan37 Mother of 10 and Two grandchildren and one of them live with me.

[riveraesch]

hope i get this rite this time its the 3rd time .i found this site last nite.stayed up all nite and read it.ive been trying to get this in since 9am keep doing something wrong.i type slow one finger.spelling aint so good eather.im 45 been getting high for 34 yrs.ive done it all from atoz. last 13 years shooting 20 bags of heron a day.54 days clean. it aint easy .listen to stace methodone is luqid hand cuffs. kickin is no joke i been there . feel like gettin hit by a truck .it rots your teeth and takes the calcum out of your bones ive seen young people with cains from it. im not gonna write to much this time .in case it doesnt go thru again.peace onelove. esch bronx n.y.

[UTMom]

My first day on suboxone...I am amazed how well this drug works. After many unsuccessful attempts to taper or quit ct, I am in absolutely no torment of withdrawals.

My story is the same as everyone else's...never meant to get up to 150 mg of hydro a day(10mg X 15pills). I don't "look" like an addict (whatever that is), I'm a mom, a wife, a homemaker with a wonderful husband, have a great life...except for the fact that I've been leading a double-life, lying to my husband, my friends and myself. Except for I'm ruining my liver, running the risk of over-dose, spending a fortune and planning everything in my life around pills. First thing when I get up, last thing before bed. Oh, and the familiar horror of running out and having to go into withdrawal, swearing I'll never use again.

So last week, I finally made the call to a dr (addiction specialist) who prescribes subox. I have no idea how the subox works, but I truly have NO withdrawals, NO cravings for pills. I am so scared and have NO idea if I can do this or not. I've been on/off pills for most of my life and I am sick and tired of them controlling me. I have been using to live, and living to use.

My dr is combining the subox with out-patient therapy at a local hospital (12 hrs./wk). Thank God our insurance covers majority of expenses as his first visit was $250 and $50/wk thereafter; the subox co-pay was $50 for 30 x 2mg.

My dr will be amused to learn drug addiction is not a disease, as imposed on us by our all-knowing, wise resident expert on everything. Sorry, didn't mean to offend, but sir, you are just WRONG. Addiction is a three-fold DISEASE, mental, spiritual and physical. VERY PHYSICAL.

My dr told me studies have shown individuals prone to addiction have fewer endorphine receptors in the brain than those not prone. When the addiction prone individual takes an opioid, the receptors "wake up", i.e., we feel as if we're finally normal, alive, peaceful, creative, part of the human race, etc. IT'S NOT AN ISSUE OF BEING GOOD/BAD, STRONG/WEAK, we're simply physiologically different. Short on dopomine receptors. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT.

Thanks for letting me talk. My big secret is finally out and a huge load has been lifted. I told my husband tonight...he was so wonderful, said he's completely supportive, glad I told him, what can he do, etc. I'm pulling for everyone here struggling with the same thing. Now there's hope for getting free at last without having to go thru the hell of withdrawals.


Sometimes our misery must become our ministry.

[PrincessKimmy]

quote:Originally posted by gretchens4

Hello,
I am glad you found this board. I am presently taking suboxone and it does work to get rid of w/d and cravings. However (and I know you probably don't want to hear this), your use of percocet is very low in the scope of addiction. I was taking up to 30 hydro 10/325 a day (3x the tylenol level). For me it was life and death. I have learned that suboxone is a VERY strong and powerful opiate. It would cause you far more w/d if you went on it than 40-50 mg of percocet. It's incredibly strong. If you did use it to get off the percocet I think you should just do a rapid detox, not maitenance. If you do a search on suboxone you can find a doctor that prescribes in your area. I would think long and hard about it though, it is trading one addiction for another, and you are still at a manageable level of percocet. Maybe for you tapering off the percocet would be better maybe a 1/2 a pill every other day. I hear you about being a shadow of your former self....that is totally me!! The sub has helped with that, but it's still a lot of work. Good luck!
Gretchen

OMG!!!!! WHERE IS MY POST??? I wrote a super-long, really great reply and when I uploaded it, it disappeared into CyberSpace!!! oh ********.....i'll try again later. Right now, I'm gonna go cry!

PrincessKimmy

***reach for the moon for if you miss, you will land among the **stars**

[Miles]

UT Mom:

If your doctor/addiction specialist "will be amused to learn drug addiction is not a disease," then his/her license should be revoked. He/she has already demonstrated a serious lack of understanding of medicine by telling you that individuals prone to addiction have "fewer endorphine receptors in the brain." Ask him/her to cite that research for you and then tell me what he says. I want to look up that one!

Psychiatrists and their allies have succeeded in persuading the scientific community, courts, media, and general public that mental illnesses are phenomena independent of human motivation or will. The core concept of mental illness, to which the vast majority of psychiatrists and the public adhere, is that diseases of the mind are diseases of the brain. The equation of the mind with the brain and of mental disease with brain disease, supported by the authority of a large body of neuroscience literature, is used to render rational the drug treatment of mental illness and justify the demand for parity in insurance coverage for medical and mental disorders.

Diseases are physico-chemical phenomena or processes - for example, the abnormal metabolism of glucose (diabetes). Mental diseases are patterns of personal conduct, unwanted by the self or others. Psychopathology is diagnosed by finding behavioral, [u]not physical</u>, abnormalities in bodies. Disease qua psychopathology cannot be asymptomatic. Changing the official classification of mental diseases can transform non-disease into psychopathology and psychopathology into nondisease (i.e., smoking from a behavioral habit into "nicotine dependence"). In short, medical diseases are discovered and then given a name, such as acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS). Mental diseases are invented and then given a name, such as attention deficit disorder.

I do not imply that distressing personal experiences and deviant behaviors do not exist. Anxiety, depression, and conflict do exist and are in fact, intrinsic to the human condition, but they are not diseases in the pathological sense.

Addiction is behavior, not disease. Brain cancer is disease. Alzheimer's is disease. It is a breach of human dignity to medicalize non-diseased persons and smacks of Nazis eugenics. Freedom-loving people throughout the world should find that most troubling.

Miles

[stacem30]

Miles,
Why don't you get a flippin life and leave us alone. No one EVER asked you for your opinions, yet you so frequently give them. You aren't helping anyone. I will suggest to you once again, which I can see clearly now, you won't take me up on, to go to a site in which you would be more helpful. Because all you're succeeding in doing is making those of us in need, feel like we know nothing. No, I'll take that back, because NO ONE has that power to make us feel anything but ourselves......especially not you. You use a lot of big words to make yourself look good, and instead you look to be a complete idiot. However you're right, addicts do not have a lack of receptors in their brains. We create new receptors by our using the drugs. This in turn causes cravings when the drugs are no longer being used and our natural receptors that God gave us are in retirement. But you have absolutely NO RIGHT to be on here preaching to us. You've obviously found a group of misfits, which is what we are, and proud of that too, I might add, In which you feel you can boost your LITTLE ego and make yourself look good. Problem is you only look good to you! Take a hike buddy! And have yourself a wonderful and productive day of ego boosting elsewhere.
Stace[]