[LISA GIRL]

Oops Sorry, I mean NYMOMMY not NM MOMMY!

[stickyfingers]

I'm towards the tail end of detoxing off of methadone. It's been 2 weeks. My Dr. wrote me a script for Trazodone for sleep (50-100mgs) at bedtime. Working well. Trazodone is an old anti-depressant drug with little to no side effects, except for intense drowsiness. I feel a little sluggish in the AM's... but i'll take that for the sleep I'm finally getting. Seroquel is a higher priced drug that I know other people have taken for sleep with success. My doctor said it's "the most expensive sleep aid on the market." And it's also used to treat schitzophrenia. Which didn't sound appealing to me.

You should get benefit from either one. And the reason doctors love to prescribe these to addicts (i am) is because there's very little risk to getting dependent. As compared to Benzo's (lorazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, etc.) And even less risk of dependency when compared to the Ambien's, Lunesta's, etc.

Best of luck to anyone out there fighting through opioid withdrawl. Sleep seems to be a very common, long-lasting withdrawl effect. Just hang in there. It may take anywhere from two weeks to 3 months, but you will get back on a great sleep pattern. And waking up after sleeping straight through for 8 hours naturally feels like heaven. It will eventually happen for you! I try my hardest to get into a decent routine, bed as early as possible and wake up fairly early in AM, regardless is I slept or not. Of course nutrition and exercies play a huge role too. Meditation and Yoga worked well for me. Yoga really focuses on "fixing" your central nervous system, exactly what is completely out of whack during ope w.d. First couple of classes you may have intense feelings and uneasiness as you awaken and notice nerves and muscles that you've deadend for years.
Lastly, I love this board and wish I discovered it earlier. Dave makes a great point- seen him post it a couple times- "After two weeks of ope withdrawl you generally feel much better and the thought arises that you're strong enough at this point and can handle "partying" one night without falling back into addiction mode. I've relapsed a couple times due to this occurrence and know plenty of others who have as well.
I learned this other discouraging fact as well: Just because you stay clean for a month, a year, or 30 years doesn't mean that if you pick up that you're starting from square one again, as if you've never used. Wrong. If you've become addicted to a drug, then usually your brain has been changed and hard-wired differently. So your tolerance may be lower when picking up again after an extended clean time- but your "disease" has kept growing as if you never quit and it doesn't take long to get back to where you were at the height of previous abuse. Sucks. Praying for all addicts out there still using and addicts battling withdrawl as I type. Let's stop with the whole game of "numbing" ourselves, never really showing true personality, and get out there and let our voices be heard. Addicts tend to be very an intelligent and open minded. We need more of that energy in the world. Why let all these other sober dopes control everyting?

[missy28]

Please can anyone help????????????????????????
I've been on Methadone for a few years and just swapped yesterday to subutex for a quicker detox. as told I left it a long time before taking subutex after last meth dose (I actually left it 43 hours!). anyway it still sent me into worse withdrawals (so opiates must stay in my system longer than other people).
Is there anyone out there who can tell me when it will be safe to tale subutex next? I'm guessing 24 hours from when I took 1st doe (that sent me into withdrawals) but after experiencing this...I want to be sure before I take next dose. I know I feel ****py cos it's knocked everybit of meth (which I thought had all gone ) off my 'receptors'?.
has anyone been in this situation? and was it ok to take next dose?
Gladly appreciate any advice

[Lazer]

Thanks Lisa Girl. Good thoughts would help.

[Lazer]

Does anyone know if your liver is damaged by taking pills, there is a chance it can get better when you go off of them? This may be a dumb question, but I am concerned.

[mpvt]

Opiates themselves won't hurt your liver but if there's tylenol in them then "yes" you can do major damage and even develop cirrhosis of the liver.Yes your liver can recover from abuse.When I went on methadone 4 years ago my liver enzymes were through the roof but after a year of taking just methadone my liver has fully recovered.Good luck.....Dave

[Lazer]

Dave, I don't know if you can answer this question but how much Tylenol do you need to take to develop cirrhosis? I have been taking 6 Darvocet a day for about 2 years and 12 to 13 a day for the last 10 months! You scared me with the cirrhosis but I still can't stop! Is it different for everyone? I can't go without the Darvocet without reaching for more and I am not even going through withdrawal! For the last 5 months that is all I think about.

Larry

[Lazer]

Dave, I meant is it different for everyone as far as developing cirrhosis and can you come back from that?

[LISA GIRL]

Lazer. Is there a reason you think you have cirrhosis? I have been taking a similar quantity of percs over the past 3 years and the last time my doc did a liver panel, she said it was fine. Knock wood for now. I am not sure if there is more tylenol in what you are taking but I wouldn't worry too much about it unless you have some reason to believe you are suffering from it...?

[mpvt]

Everyone is different,I used to take 120 percocets in a couple of hours when I couldn't find anything else (percocets for me were ****,way to weak,I was a real pig lol).Like I said my liver enzymes were elevated but they did go back to normal.Who knows maybe I was 120 percocets away from having liver failure,you just don't know....Dave

[Lazer]

I don't want to keep posting and have people tired or annoyed at me but this is all new for me. I'm 47 and realize that because of my marriage, the debt I am in, among other stressors, that I take these Darvocet's for escape. I wake up feeling scared and the Darv. take that feeling away. I am definitely an addict. I count pills ( in front of my children-that's terrible they always come in the room when I am doing it-they are in there teens). I have drug seeking behavior and I know it. I just can't come off. I am sweating profusely now because I tried to wait a little longer between taking the pills, usually 3 or 4 at a time 3 or 4 times a day. I don't understand where everyone gets there pills from. I have to stretch it out and it is almost impossible to make the next refill so I call my Doctor for a fill of Darvon and just add Tylenol to it. I have to make up some story to get it but if the Suboxone thing doesn't work for me, than I think I am in trouble this time.
Lazer

[nymommy]

lazer, i am exactly your age, and also in debt..not sure of your personnel relationship w/ your spouse though...my relationship w/ my husband is awesome...except for the huge lie in my life...wish i could share it w/ him, but he has LOTS of issues with his family can't burden him right now..are you considering sub?? i actually feel that it will be my only chance...i truly want off of this s***....sometimes i wish i had the courage to just go cold turkey..anyone have any positive expereinces w/ cold turkey currently taking 5 vic's a day for 2 yrs

[stickyfingers]

During my massive run of abusing opiates I would take Norcos 10/325 as a last resort. Usually atleast 12 at a time. Acitametaphin (sp?) 325 mg per pill in this case x the amount ingested is a lot and could have posed liver problems. I was concerned and actually used the "Cold Water Extraction Method" a few times when taking 50 within 24hrs.. you can find out how to do it online. Essentially what you do is separate the hydrocodone from the Tylenol. It takes about a half hour and once done your left with a clear liquid that should contain hydrocone only. A little Tylenol may be present and you probably lose some amount of hydrocodone in the process. But you save your liver. I'd only do this method if I was taking a lot, over 40 a day of 10/325. Otherwise it's really not worth the trouble, unless you've already got liver problems. And of course the amount of Acitametaphin and Ibuprofen is different in each pill. You can really mess yourself up by eating dozens of 5mg hydro/oxycodone at a time, because they usually contain the same amount of Tylenol as the 10 mgs.

Wish everyone the best- whether high on opiates, in relief from chronic pain b/c of opiates or going through withdrawl from opiates. How could something so wrong feel so right? [8D]

[Bozzz74]

Wouldn't it be great if someone could give you a "to do" list when you were ready to start your company that would guarantee your success? Even better, what about a "to don't" list of things to avoid at all costs? Through experience, I've found there are no shortcuts to launching a business--you have to do your homework to understand your customers, competitors, market conditions and risks. But there are some principles I've found to be very effective for growing both my company and my clients' businesses whether they are startups or Fortune 500 corporations, whether they sell consumer products, professional services or technology products. What to do as a start-up?

[cranky]

I've been reading this discussion for a number of weeks, and this is my first post. I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Kratom as an effective method of eliminating opiate withdrawel symptoms. I think it's nothing short of miraculous! (no, I'm not a salesman or anything like that). My situation is similar to many people on here; successful businessman, two kids, caught up in overwhelming "dependecy" on norco (15/day) for close to a year. I've gone through wd a couple of times - absolutely horrible. I read about Kratom on a discussion group and decided to try it. No wd symptoms, or very mild - amazing. Kratom is a plant grown in Thailand and Bali, and sold as either leaves or powder. It's legal, although for some reason it's sold as "incense", but if you do your research you can find out quite a bit about it. The down side is that it's expensive (about $70 for 20 grams, which will last about a week) and it tastes horrible. But, it's virtually nonaddicting (like caffeine) and is not an opiate, although it leaves you with a nice, relaxed slightly euphoric feeling. I was reading that government of Thailand is now using it to treat narcotics addiction. Anyhow, something to try - takes away the agony of WD very effectively.

[Lazer]

Well, I have called 6 or 7 Doctors and either they cannot take on any new patients or you have to go through a Drug and Rehab facility before they can get you (maybe) an appointment somewhere, or have had a history of substance abuse (which I don't have). I finally got through to one and the earliest appt. is Sept. 26 and my meds are going to run out long before that. I don't know what to do now. I will go through severe withdrawal.

[nymommy]

lazer, can you confide in your primary doctor, and maybe he can prescribe enough to hold you over...my appt is tommorrow(w/ my primary doctor)..i am starting to worry about finding a doctor that will take a new patient also..hoping my doctor will help w/ that...can i ask where you live, i'm in a ny suburb i actually called a local hospital w/ out patient programs, the woman seemed to think that isn't the route i should go...i don't think she thought i was addicted enough..she basically said i would be in a group w/ hard core addicts..i'm feeling panic latley...hope my doc can help..good luck to you...

[motherof5]

my husband had the same problem- finding the doctor that can prescribe the suboxone. Your family doctor can't prescribe them- only certain doctors can and they can only have 30 patients at a time on it. if you live in CA, FL, or NY it's not a problem- tons of doctors available that can do it but we live in the midwest so it was very difficult. One place could get him in but not for 1 month and his pills were running out and he exhausted all the local doctors and hospitals. We had to go to drastic measures and send him to Dallas to "meditoxofpalmbeach" (you can look them up online) they were pricey but it is worth it. My husband has been on Subutox for almost 2 weeks (or maybe its just been a week?) but I truly believe this is his way out.

[nymommy]

what exactly goes on @ those rapid detox centers?? do you think your husband could of done it w/ sub only..if it were available?? i don't think i could leave my family that long especially now with the school year here how much was he using

[Lazer]

quote:Originally posted by nymommy

lazer, can you confide in your primary doctor, and maybe he can prescribe enough to hold you over...my appt is tommorrow(w/ my primary doctor)..i am starting to worry about finding a doctor that will take a new patient also..hoping my doctor will help w/ that...can i ask where you live, i'm in a ny suburb i actually called a local hospital w/ out patient programs, the woman seemed to think that isn't the route i should go...i don't think she thought i was addicted enough..she basically said i would be in a group w/ hard core addicts..i'm feeling panic latley...hope my doc can help..good luck to you...

My primary care phys. is a friend of mine and called me an addict and wouldn't give me any more pills. I can't blame him at all. I have been calling too many different Pharmacies and the same Doctor and she is really getting upset with me. She is my Oncologist so I really need her.

[nymommy]

wow, that stinks..short of the internet (which i haven't ventured into myself) i don't know what to say...maybe try cutting back till your appt...much easier said then done, i know...i just called a recommened doc from the subonex website...visit is 750.00 but he is taking new patients funny how i'd spend $$$ on the meds, but this made me think twice...i might get some money back from my insurance..seems like in ny this is big bussiness for doctor's i'll keep you posted

[abey042000]

Lazer~

So u have an oncologist? Are u in active cancer stage? If so, shouldnt she be giving you something for the pain anyways? You would think if she's a friend also, she could give you something so that you could honestly start a taper, to help you get through. Now, it sounds like she won't be giving you anything at all huh? At least maybe she could prescribe you something for comfort meds while going thru CT Wd, you would think. At least till u find a doc that will see you for Sub. Although I have been thru the speal with doctors, and I am a chronic pain patient. It took me a long time to find a doctor that would manage my pain levels even considerably. Thats only been of recent. I wish u luck, and id u have to resort to online pharms you can email me, and I'll get back with ya on some info. I know how it is to be in the situation your in. Hope this helps hunny.

[Lazer]

I'm on chemotherapy medication now. I was on injection therapy before this and had some bad reactions from it. That's how I increased my Darvocet to such a high level (13 a day) and that's how I got addicted. I have to get an MRI but I am too frightened to get it. I'm supposed to go every 6 months. Oh, my friend is not the Oncologist, my friend is my primary care phys. The big problem is I have OCD and I am obsessing over this which amplifies the situation even more. I take med's for my OCD but I guess I have so much going on now, that they aren't as effective. Either way I am going to have to suffer, I think, needlessly because my pharmacist is playing hardball with me and is making me wait extra long for my refill (I had mentioned this before in a previous post, she knows I'm addicted).

[tinygood2]

quote:Originally posted by abey042000

Lazer~

So u have an oncologist? Are u in active cancer stage? If so, shouldnt she be giving you something for the pain anyways? You would think if she's a friend also, she could give you something so that you could honestly start a taper, to help you get through. Now, it sounds like she won't be giving you anything at all huh? At least maybe she could prescribe you something for comfort meds while going thru CT Wd, you would think. At least till u find a doc that will see you for Sub. Although I have been thru the speal with doctors, and I am a chronic pain patient. It took me a long time to find a doctor that would manage my pain levels even considerably. Thats only been of recent. I wish u luck, and id u have to resort to online pharms you can email me, and I'll get back with ya on some info. I know how it is to be in the situation your in. Hope this helps hunny.

Would you be able to email me with some online pharms? In sam situation right now - very tough. Tinygood2@hotmail.com

[LISA GIRL]

I guess I don't understand the reasoning of regulating the doctors who prescribe suboxone to 30 patients at a time? I was gearing up to make the call and now worried that I may not be able to find a doctor as easily as I thought. Also, did I read in here you have to be already a couple days into the w/d before you start taking the sub? I was thinking of quitting on a Friday afternoon and then being able to start the sub on Sunday or Monday so as to have the least impact at work. I can suffer at home by myself over the weekend. Do you have to go to the doctor office to get the sub or is it prescribed and you can take it yourself after a couple days off the meds?

[nymommy]

as someone previously posted, finding a sub doctor depends on where you live..i live in ny, i've reached a few some were taking new patients,all were very expensive 750.00-1000.00 yikes

[motherof5]

my husband had to off hydro at noon on sunday and start going into withdrawls- they saw him at 2pm on monday and started his treatment- he was able to come home the next day- but if you do live somewhere where you can find a doctor taking on new patients good for you! cuz the detox center I had to send him to was a whole lot more money- I wish they would have more doctors trained and able to do this in the midwest- its a huge problem out here! The Doc in Dallas said he has seen alot of patients from Nebraska. Good luck everyone!

[cranky]

I would urge anyone who is trying to get off of opiate addiction to try Kratom before going to a detox center. It's a plant that's grown in Thailand and Bali - you can purchase the crushed leaves and make it into a tea. It attaches to the receptors in your brain (the alpha and muu receptors, if I recall correctly) and reduces or eliminates WD symptoms. It's legal, fairly inexpensive compared to drugs (about $150 will get you a good quality Kratom that will last about 2 weeks), and best of all, you can use it at home without having to give up confidentiality. I've tried it and, although it doesn't take away the psychological urge (although some people say it does for them), it pretty much eliminates physical WD symptoms. Plus, it's not an opiate drug, so, unlike with suboxene, you're not just trading one addiction for another. You can gradually reduce the amount of Kratom you're taking, it's only as addictive as coffee. Worth a try!

[nymommy]

went to my primary doc today, as sympathic as he was, he had no clue what to do w/ me..referred me to a shrink, who i researched and can not prescribe the sub..so looks like i'm on my own in finding someone

[LISA GIRL]

NMMOMMY... Sorry to hear you did not have more luck with your primary doc. Made me smile though when you said "he didn't know what to do with me." as I had the exact same experience with my primary. Probably b/c she is an OBGYN and not much experience in that area. She gave me a card for some counselor who was not even an MD.

I made the call today to a local doctor I found in the Suboxone directory. Had to leave a message. Hopefully I will have some luck there. If he has an opening will have to MAKE myself go to the appointment. It seems like quitting is a really good idea when I'm really messed up on the pills but most of the time the thought terrifies me.

I live in the Denver area so hopefully won't have as much trouble as you Motherof5, but imagine it will be harder than if I lived in NYC or a bigger city. What does the $750-$1000 cover? How long does one stay on the suboxone? That's a lot of money but I would cover it easily in a month if I quit the pills. Funny how money isn't enough of a motivator to get off the pills but enough to question spending it to get help.


CRANKY...what type of pills were you doing when you used the Kratum...? I guess I'm just hesitant as haven't ever heard of it and have heard so many good things about the sub drugs...and why are you cranky?? lol.