[Angela H]

Hey Lazer~
The way my doctor explained it- it is an opiate 50 times stronger than morphine, which taken in VERY small doses, covers all the brain receptors that have gotten used to the opiate you've been taking. Supposedly that's what takes away withdrawal symtoms and allows you to function normally while the hydro leaves your body. Treatment is usually 1-3 months, reducing or tapering by 1 mg a week.
There's a psychological component to this treatment...learning how to live without pills, re-training your brain how to function normally without them.
When I first began treatment, I told my doctor I didn't want to be on it very long because I didn't want to get hooked on it. He assured me that if I gave it a month and tapered according to schedule, withdrawals would be minimal. So far, so good.

[Lazer]

I appreciate everyone's help but I need to understand a few things. Will Suboxone work with Darvocet? I thought it only works with Opiates. Is Darvocet an opiate? Do you take both drugs at the same time or do you completely come off one, in this case Darvocet, and just take the Suboxone? How much do you taper off-1 a day-1 a week, I will not have enough left unless I can cut down considerably before my next refill. Also I am on Klonopin, an antidepressant, a chemotherapy pill, and Synthroid. Will that be a problem? Thanks again everyone.


Larry

[mortis]

Just some advice I found somewhere else which does wonders for the leg twitches:

Hyland's Homeopathic Leg Cramps.

It's not perfect, but it does make it a lot more bareable. It has Quinine in it, though, so if you're sensitive to that, you shouldn't take it.

[mpvt]

Darvocet is a very weak opiate known as propoxyphene.Once you start taking the suboxone you won't need or want the darvocet,believe me.Your other meds should be ok.Buprenorphene (suboxone,subutex) also has 50 times the pain killing strength of morphine so you won't need the darvocet anyway.I really wish you would look into this as it could really help you out.Good luck to you and hang in there....Dave

[Angela H]

Lazer~
One thing I forgot to tell you...You have to be in the beginning stages of withdrawal before you can take your first dose of Sub. Otherwise, it can send you into withdrawals. I was tapering really fast(from 10 a day to 2 or 3), did that for 4 days. I felt awful!
Nose running, shivers, total malaise. I was miserable when I went to see my doc. He took one look at me and just knew I was withdrawing. He asked me when I had my last dose of hydro and it was half of a lorcet 10 at 8o that morning. This was about 3:30. I took 4 mg of Subutex about 4:00 and within 20 mins, felt normal. So, you could go ahead and get your appt~ make sure you haven't had any or much that day. You will feel some discomfort, but knowing it's about to be over will get you through. Also, like Dave said, Darvocet is so mild of an opiate~ you should have no problems.
Lazer~ please don't put this off...I promise it will only get worse if you keep taking the Darvocets. I thought I had control over my addiction until I bought 50 Lortab 10's on Monday and by Friday they were all gone. I couldn't believe it. I was so disgusted with myself. I had gotten to the point where I didn't want to socialize at all. I would turn my phone off so nobody could bother me. All I wanted to do was sit in this house and feel numb. My boyfriend would ask me if I wanted to go out to eat or to a movie or anything to get out of the house. It was awful. I knew I needed help.
Good Luck Lazer! I'm praying for you. Call for an appt. You won't regret it! Hugs, Angela

[Lazer]

Dave and Angela. Thanks for all of your help. I got up the courage and called the Doctor. The nurse told me that the state only allows for a certain number of patients to be treated at one time. What happens if he has no more room? I am running out of Darvocet!
Larry

[likwid-solutions]

First off I would like to introduce myself. My name is Ryan and I am 18 years old and just recently graduated high school. For the past 2 years I have used drugs recreationally. I have smoked pot nearly everyday in those 2 years and have dabbled in a few other chemicals. But when I was 17 I discovered pain killers, and over the course of the next 6-8 months I occasionally took some painkillers, nothing too much, just a few every 2 or 3 weeks. And then February 2006, I decide to take 2 Vicodin at work. WOW did that shift go by quickly. So each day I would buy a few Vicodin or Percocet and take them before my 4 hour work shift, and by time I clocked in for work, it was time to clock out.

I was a senior in highschool that spring. School was starting to become such a chore. I wasn't learning anything, the administrators were assholes and wouldn't let me cut my study hall so i could get out of school early to work. So I figured if Vicodin makes work go by quickly, I'll just pop a few before school....and that's where my addiction started.

I would take 2-3 before school, and of course school was 6 hours long and the vicodin wasn't enough to keep me going the whole time so i would take a few more. Then after I got out of school it was straight to work, a few more vicodin and it was alright.

Now August is almost over and I am regretting I ever took a painkiller. Every painkiller I've ever taken I've bought off the street. If they are available I will snort 2 oxy 30mg immediate release a day. But I can get through the day fine without withdrawing if i just do one. But if I don't have my oxy's then It's vicodin, which I need about 40-50mg of to feel any sort of pleasure.

Sorry I am boring you with the history of my addiction, but it's probably better if I admit it to someone. Sometimes its hard to admit to yourself even that you are as addicted as your are. But the reason I am really here is I want a way out. Every day I wake up thinking about if I have the money to feel normal today, and I dread the nightime. I can make it through the day, even with my withdrawals, but the insomnia is unbearable. The last time I tried to quit cold turkey, I made it 5 days but I gave in because I wanted to sleep so bad. Last night I took 2 Percocet 10mg and thought I would have a great sleep from it, I went to bed at 2:30am and woke up at 7:30 am (I am a later sleeper cuz I work in the evenings).

I feel like this never should've happened to me, even though I have no one else to blame except myself. I just want to be free. I am only 18 years old and I have my whole life ahead of me and I don't want the rest of my life controlled by a chemical.

I've decided today to try and go cold turkey again. I've been reading other posts similar to mine, but if anyone has any suggestions, please help before it gets too worse. Does anyone have anything that will help me get past the insomnia? A lot of people tell me to walk around if i can't get to sleep but it doesn't work, because I still can't sleep when I go back to bed.

[LISA GIRL]

Ryan:

I just posted an entire diatribe but my new laptop battery died and I lost it all. I will retype it at a later date. In short, started pills (percocet.. lots of em ), became addicted, quit for 3 months and started again.

I am new here and one day soon will share my story, but I just wanted to tell you that if you made it to day 5 before you can make it all the way! I too was frustrated by the lack of sleep thing. My doctor finally gave me a small supply of ambien to help me sleep. I slept like a baby. Of course it could have just been that after 5 days with no sleep my body just shut down. But ambien rocks. Just be careful cuz it can be habit forming too. None of the over the counter stuff worked for me but ambien put me right out.

I am now back on the pills ( a story for a later date) and am reading all the posts here about some of the things to help with the withdrawal. I would love to get off these things (again) but can't bring myself to go thru what i did the last time.

Anyway Ryan you are way to young to start a life of slavery to the pills. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[likwid-solutions]

Thank you, Lisa, for your support. Like you said, I don't know your complete story, but I have been reading up a lot about Suboxone. I learned about it a few posts above in this thread and I checked out their website, it almost sounds too good to be true. It's supposed to make the withdrawals minimal. Maybe it's something you might want to check out, I can't gaurantee its success, but others seem to.

There are mulitple doctors around here that are licensed to prescribe it. As I mentioned in my post earlier, I am only 18, and I'm feeling overwhelmed right now because I want to call one of these doctors to start treatment, but I'm not too familiar with the steps needed to see a new doctor or specialist as I have never set up my own appointments(this will be the first time as an adult even seeing a doctor). I wish to see the doctor and use the Suboxone program without my parents knowing. I plan to, of course, pay for the treatment myself, but I'm not sure how much my insurance will cover, if it even covers it at all. Can anyone give me any more details about Suboxone and it's pricing?

Thanks again, Ryan

[LISA GIRL]

Good questions Ryan. Now that you are an adult your health info will be completely confidential. All you need to do is call up the doctor's office and tell the receptionist you want to see the doctor about suboxone treatment and set up an appointment time. When you go give them your insurance card and you will have to fill out some basic patient info. If you live at home see if they can refrain from sending the bills to your house (make alternate payment arrangements in advance) if you don't want your parents to see them.

I would also be interested to know about the price and whether insurance will cover any or all of it. The doc's office should be able to give you a basic idea when you call. I suppose it all depends on the insurance plan you have.

You are right that it seems to be good to be true. Can't be worse than cold turkey though. I would be interested in knowing if anyone has had negative experiences with suboxone or the like.

Looking forward to being able to get off these things again. I did it once, I will do it again. I just need to find the right way to go about it. Both of us do!

[stickyfingers]

I would try to taper down myself and see if I can kick on my own. I would also try and locate some outside help.... therapy, NA meetings, etc. I've been down the road of most people on this thread. Essentially wasted four years of my life due to opioid addiction. 26-30. I finally went on methadone program for a few months- it helped me straighten things out, but methadone withdrawl is no fun either and I essentially feel like I'm back to square one. Fresh into sobriety. I've only been off the methadone for 10 days and haven't really slept at all. Never tried the Suboxone route, but have read good things. Ultimately you have to really want to kick and regain control of your life.... Suboxone shouldn't be thought of as a quick fix. It's going to take a lot of time and commitment. It's worth it though. I went 30 days completely sober about a year ago and felt serious improvement after about 2 weeks. I saw and felt the joy of sobriety. I know it exists and is the only thing that's keeping me going at this point. I haven't "slept" more than a couple hours a night since stopping the methadone 10 days ago. I could get benzos off the street, but I know that i'm around half way to doing this right and not having to then kick the benzo. Sleep may seem like it'll never happen again now, but eventually it will come and it will feel like a new drug on its own. Hang in there warriors! There's no such thing as a free lunch.

[chrish1]

You are correct Stickyfingers... there is no quick fix. Suboxone will help the initial stopping of opiates, but will not control the urges long term. It will control the urges for a while, but I also recommend getting the proper spiritual/mental treatment after the Suboxone helps you stop - NA meetings/program and outpatient programs will educate you on your problem and will help you to quit long term (5+ years down the road). Addiction is tricky, as you all know, so make sure you get educated and treat the issue that made you subject to addiction in the first place.

I have stopped using opiates and all mind altering substances for almost 11 months now, and I have done it though the NA program and effort educating myself on addiction. It CAN be done. There is a life outside of substance abuse, and it is greater than even you can imagine. I know this from experience.

Good luck all.

Chrish

Clean Date: 10/11/05

Drugs are a big lie. Don't believe the lie.

***HOW TO FIND LOCAL NA MEETINGS****

http://www.na.org/links-toc.htm

[mortis]

Hey. I know I posted a suggestion earlier... at that point, I wasn't really up to typing anything longer. Technically speaking, I think I was/am dependent rather than addicted, but when it comes to getting off, especially after 20 months (which is how long I was on HIGH doses of oxycontin... they had to put me on 3 times a day instead of two because it would stop working after 8 hours and after 10, I'd be in withdrawals), the difference is really pretty minimal. Your life has been structured around taking pills at certain times of the day, of taking others whenever your pain levels get above bareable, etc. And, of course, you are at constant risk of withdrawl. I'd sleep late and wake up feeling AWFUL. My boyfriend would literally run away from me and stay the hell out of the room for at least 30 minutes til my pills kicked the w/ds.

In any event, I've been on a taper for a few months. Last Thursday was my last pill. I was fine for about 36 hours... and then w/ds hit. Tapering, especially very slowly, is supposed to prevent that. It didn't. After a while, nothing you can do will keep you from going through it.

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. After about 18 hours, I started to feel a little better. I still feel like ****, though, and I'm 4 days in. At least I can climb one flight of stairs now without feeling like I'm dying. But I have to stop on the first floor to get from the basement to my room on the second floor because my heart is racing and I'm exhausted and out of breath.

I got through it pretty much using Hyland's homeopathic stuff. Their Calms Forte to knock me out (I only got about 2 hours off of it, but ANYTHING is better than nothing). And their Leg Cramps stuff for the leg twitches. For me, that's the worst part. And it didn't fix it, but it made it ... I don't really want to say bareable, nothing can do that. But survivable.

I'm wondering, though, if anyone can give me an idea of how long it'll be before I have my energy back. This Sunday, I'm moving back to school and I'm moving to a 4th floor room. No elevators. I have help, but as it is, I'd be amazed if I get to the room ONCE without exhausted, forget moving up there. If I'm not going to be much better, I'm going to seek more help, but I need a little advance notice.

The good news is that since this was all through a doctor, my family and my friends know about it. They've been pretty supportive... But I know how MUCH I liked the narcotics and I could see myself going down the path of abuse far too easily. It's willpower stopping me and almost nothing else. I wonder if they'd be quite as supportive and helpful if I were going through this from an unsupervised addiction. I know my boyfriend would... would my parents? That thought terrifies me. I'm also afraid because I'm still IN pain and I don't know how to get up mornings I'm hurting without taking something for it to get me moving. I've got a hard semester ahead of me and I'm taking the LSATs and applying to law schools. It's a lot to do, and with all that pain... I don't know if I can do it. It would be too easy to fall into getting these pills from somewhere else and going back to where I was.

[nymommy]

i'm new here, although i've been lurking...currently taking 5 vic's a day for 2 yrs, most i've ever taken was 7..i know i cant do this anymore, nor do i want to...never had any pain, never had a drug problem just love the superwoman feeling....but i need to stop..my family does not know ( great husband..awesome kids) rehab not an option,thinking about subonex..i guess i'm to scared of wd's..question: am i eligible for sub even though i'm not taking that much let me clarify, i'm definitly addicted.no doubt...just looking for the easy way out, although i'm 100%%% commited..i have to much to lose not to be. any info would be helpful...ps tried weaning, no self control

[unclenasty93]

nymommy, 5 vics a day is a small amount, but the addiction is the same. We all deal with the same fears and behaviors regardless of our dose. Suboxone would be an option for you, or you could try going to detox. On 5 vics a day you would not have all that rough of a time and even if you did they medicate you and control the symptoms. I was in your situation a few years ago, I was taking about 5 percocets a day. I actually stopped that amount with no detox meds and I felt pretty decent. You will not have terrible withdrawl coming off 5 vics a day. Just remember though, that addiction is a PROGRESSIVE illness and it WILL get worse if you don't treat it now. Good luck, keep asking all the questions you want.

[nymommy]

thanks for your reply. when you say detox, do you mean in or out patient? in patient not an option as i have a young teenager and have been preaching the evils of drugs...my other child would simply be devasted w/o me home..no can do..i have an appt w/ my regular doc on 9/6 he will at least refer me to a doctor who can prescribe the sub..i do work, but hey i'm willing to pay the piper...so funny, knowing the end is near i'm taking more than my usual 5 a day...i KNOW this is a progressive disease is this typically covered i have excellent insurance which i'm graTEFUL for

[LISA GIRL]

UNCLE NASTY

When you say you quit the percs w/ relatively little difficulty what dosage were you taking? 5 of the 5mg or 10s? I have lost concept of what a lot of pills is in a day. I try to stay most days at no more than 6 of the 10 mg which of course is 12 of the 5 mg white round ones. On the weekends though I sometimes take as many as 12-15 of the yellows and once I really felt bad and was worried I might OD. What is the normal usage of most people here? I quit last year cold turkey with about 5 days of hell although I only really noticed it at night when I was trying to sleep. I would like to try the cold turkey again but am thinking my dosage has increased too much to do that so I am looking into the sub. Is there a daily dosage that when taken regularly it is suggested not to do it cold turkey???

[nymommy]

hi lisa girl i'm new here, and have lot's of questions too...going to my primary doc in a couple of days, hoping he can refer me to someone that can prescribe sub i'm done w/ the lies, and all that goes with this bs..i'll will keep everyone posted on my hopeful recovery..you seem to be @ a relatively low dose if tapering dosent work, maybe sub will...i have tried everything, but cold turkey...i admit i'm looking for an easier way out..............

[Angela H]

Nymommy~
Welcome! Take it from me....Sub works. I've been on it 2 1/2 weeks now. I read your concerns about only taking 4-5 pills a day and were you eligible. Yes, you are. That's what I was taking....5-6 Lortab 10s a day for like 4 months. Then it went to like 8 for a while and at the highest, it was 10, but only for 3 days. That's when I decided I needed help. Because I knew 10 would turn into 12 and 12 would turn into 15 and so on....I was screwed! Plus, I couldn't afford them anymore. I never had any money because I spent it all on pills. The nice thing now is that I can actually go shopping for clothes and fun stuff....that I denied myself for so long because I was a slave to the pills.
Subutex took away ALL the withdrawals and made me feel normal for the first time in a LONG time. Wow. I forgot what normal felt like.
I'm not gonna lie and say I never have any cravings, but they're fairly mild and usually easy to forget about. Just try to stay busy and focus on doing all the things you wished you could have done while you were so doped up and couldn't.
Good Luck! Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. I know it's scary, but believe me....there's a better life on the other side. And you will feel so much better about yourself and your self-esteem. Good Luck. Angela angela71104@yahoo.com
ps. I also live in Louisiana

[Angela H]

Lazer~
Where are you? You haven't posted in a while. Post so we can see how you are. I've been thinking about you. Have you started the Sub treatment?

[nymommy]

hi angela, thanks for the encouragement...oh, i definitly know 5 will turn into more, and i also cannot afford it..i just hope my doctor knows who to send me too...last january i went to him , told him the situation i was in, he felt i could taper..he gave me 30, told me what to do and i'm sure you can figure out the rest. so as of now he thinks i'm off of them, he's really cool so i'm sure he will try to help me w/o judgement..this forum is sooo helpful. most people perceive addicts as low lifes hiding in alleys.. well here i am in surburbia w/ my suv trying to hide all these lies..i cant bring myself to tell my husband he would be devasted...9/6 is my appt, as back to school approaches i hope my life does as well

[actiqachiever]

This is to Drugquestion...if you are getting high from your methadone treatment then your dose is WAY<WAY<WAY to high. The correct dose of methadone takes away the physical symptoms of opiate withdrawl and helps to get rid of the cravings. It allows you to lead a normal life without the up and down of being high. I know a lot of people at my clinic who exacerbate teir physical symptoms to get a higher dose...but that is just playing the game....the game that as a methadone patient you are trying to heal from. I'm not trying to be preachy. I myself have been on methadone for about a year and I was starting to feel the effects of the medication..told my couselor and we REDUCED my doese by a few milligrams until I felt normal. On a correct dose of meth you are supposed to feel normal..not high or euphoric or anything else...just normal and free from the craving of opiates...there...that's my two cents(which is all I have left after paying for the methadone!!!!!!) Love ya' all!!!

[nymommy]

sorry angela i wanted to ask you, do you have trouble sleeping? cuz, that's an issue for me now, and i've read on the sub you can't take anything for sleep..i currently take xanax when i'm having a problem thanks

[actiqachiever]

totolyozmtoo-I am on methadone too, and I am so glad that you found out the peace of mind that comes with it!!!! I know people have some pretty bad opinions of Meth, but I have my life back! For the first time in 4 years I am happy. I like myself and the people around me. It is a blessing not having to worry about where you are gonna' cop and it is so nice not having to dump all my pills out to count them to figure out how many days(or hours) I have left before I need more. I have money now...not to mention self-respect! I'm NEVER dope sick and I don't ever have to fear that I will be!!!!It has given me the hope of getting my life back and I am in the process of repairing the damage I did when I was using! Much luck to ya!!!!!![:X]

[Angela H]

Nymommy~
I don't have trouble sleeping...but I take Seroquel at night and I think that definitely helps. Also, my doc gave me a very low dose of Ativan (.5 mg) and I take it at night if I feel I need it.

[LISA GIRL]

CHRISH.... I have been poking around the boards for a few days now. Reading here and there. Hope one day to sit down and read all 131 pages. In any case I just wanted to say that I have seen many of your posts. I am sure that many people stop in here for support and either get it, quit the meds and dissapear or fail and fade away. I think it is awesome that you are clean and still here posting, giving encouragement and motivation. I am sure you are not the only one, but like I said I have only been jumping around and kept seeing your posts. Boards like this are helped immensely by those who are not only here for help but by people who do help long after they have someone of a grip on their own problem. God Bless you for your work here. I am 38, live in Colorado and am addicted (wow that ouches to type that word) to percocet. I have a great job which unfortunately allows me to afford an obscenely expensive habit. I hope one day I will be able to be clean for almost a year also and then able to help others the way you have. GOD BLESS!!

[Lazer]

Angela, I posted but no one responded. I am dizzy and nauseous and think I have liver damage. I am back at 13 Darvocet a day. Has anyone taken so much? I had a Kidney taken out due to a malignancy, and lung surgery from the spread of the cancer. I feel lousy and want to cry. I am scared! I have OCD, Panic disorder, and hypochondriosis. They are supposed to get back to me on Tuesday about the Suboxone.
Larry

[LISA GIRL]

LAZER... I don't know you or your history but in answer to your question about anyone having taken so much I can with great confidence say yes there are many who have taken so much and much more. I am unfamiliar with OCD and your other problems, all I can say is I will say a prayer for you. Hang in there and good luck with the suboxone. Let me know what you think. I am psyching myself up to contact a doctor about that myself very soon. God Bless

[nymommy]

angela, whats seroquel?? i know of ativan sleep is a BIG concern of mine..does the sub help w/the restless legs everyone speaks of....i take sleeping very seriously as i have a job and a family that counts on me i'm also from a very old school background ( italian) that makes me feel guilty if i'm not feeding/cooking etc... although i am not old fashioned @ all..i guess it's just in my genes

[LISA GIRL]

NMMOMMY.. I don't know of seroquel but when I quit for a while last year my doctor gave me 10 ambien to sleep. I had already gone thru the worst of the w/d (5 days in) so I was probably past the worst of it but I LOVED the ambien. Fell right to sleep and woke up without the slightest hangover or fog. She would not give me more as they can be habit forming but after the 10, I had no problem sleeping which surprised me cuz I have had sleep issues in the past which is part of the reason I started on the percs. Nothing else worked for me. I would also know if the sub helps with the restless legs. That was the worst part of the w/d for me the last time around.