[Robert_325]

mommy of 3 .... Check out how many of the people having trouble showed up here following their drs' instructions begging for someone to help them after the fact. They've been taking too much and for too long. THAT'S what you are reading about. That is why I said 16mg is TOO much.

I can't fix messes in two weeks. It takes time to fix this when people mess it up. We can't perform miracles. Talk to people who are inducted according to our sub therapy plan and then follow the taper to the end. They DON'T have problems. God bless.

[suebone]

Hi Robert,

I am afraid I am another person who needs to be "fixed" after messing up. I started suboxone 2 weeks ago and just recently started reading this forum. My doctor prescribed 16 mg sub for a year. He did not do an induction, just gave me the script with no discussion of lower doses or withdrawals from subs. After a few days of vomiting, dizzyness and just feeling "out of it". I reduced my dose to 8 mg (4 mg twice daily) myself and have felt fine. The only side effect I'm having is swelling in my ankles. How do I determine, at this point, what is the right dose for me? I was taking up to 10 7.5mg Lortab a day for 3 months. I may have to stay on suboxone longer than you generally recommend because I have a long history of relapse and my husband and counselor are pushing me to stay on it long term. Thank you for any advice you can offer me and thank you for devoting your time, knowledge and compassion to those who suffer from this terrible disease of addiction.

Susan

[mommy of 3]

Robert,
I'm certainly NOT attcking anyone here....
I've just been reading ALL i can up on SUBOXONE, and what i'm finding is people are having a hard time with coming off of this medicine, and personally this scares me to death Robert....If you read what i posted last time was..."so if you follow dr's orders on SUBOXONE you shouldn't have a hard time coming off??" that is what i posted! You also have to understand I'm still new at this, i'm new at my addiction, i'm new on SUBOXONE, and of course NEVER thought this would happen to me!!!! 2mg or 16mg, i've heard many stories how people are trying to come off of SUBOXONE. If you were new to all of this too, you would certainly feel the same way i am. I'm on this web page to find support, and i would like to hear MORE positive's about SUBOXONE, i'm just saying i really haven't found it yet! I'm enjoying everything you post, and love to hear about people's recovery. Maybe i'm looking in the wrong place to find the positive for this kind of medicine, if you can help me find where i need to go that would be great! I'm still learning and want to continue to learn all i can about my addiction and the SUBOXONE i'm on.
Thanks for your attention to this, and keep up your great support for us all..
God Bless~
Mommy

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by suebone

Hi Robert,

I am afraid I am another person who needs to be "fixed" after messing up. I started suboxone 2 weeks ago and just recently started reading this forum. My doctor prescribed 16 mg sub for a year. He did not do an induction, just gave me the script with no discussion of lower doses or withdrawals from subs. After a few days of vomiting, dizzyness and just feeling "out of it". I reduced my dose to 8 mg (4 mg twice daily) myself and have felt fine. The only side effect I'm having is swelling in my ankles. How do I determine, at this point, what is the right dose for me? I was taking up to 10 7.5mg Lortab a day for 3 months. I may have to stay on suboxone longer than you generally recommend because I have a long history of relapse and my husband and counselor are pushing me to stay on it long term. Thank you for any advice you can offer me and thank you for devoting your time, knowledge and compassion to those who suffer from this terrible disease of addiction.

Susan

I would suggest you taper down by 25% of your dose until you are stabilized. You should feel GOOD on subs, not high, but good. You're probably still at too high a dose if it's making you feel badly. Drop back to 6mg each day total ... see if that helps. TOO MUCH is as bad as not enough, maybe even worse. At least you're not taking a huge dose. Here is the suboxone therapy link I suggest everyone read first. This is how I suggest doing this. God bless.

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by mommy of 3

Robert,
I'm certainly NOT attcking anyone here....
I've just been reading ALL i can up on SUBOXONE, and what i'm finding is people are having a hard time with coming off of this medicine, and personally this scares me to death Robert....If you read what i posted last time was..."so if you follow dr's orders on SUBOXONE you shouldn't have a hard time coming off??" that is what i posted! You also have to understand I'm still new at this, i'm new at my addiction, i'm new on SUBOXONE, and of course NEVER thought this would happen to me!!!! 2mg or 16mg, i've heard many stories how people are trying to come off of SUBOXONE. If you were new to all of this too, you would certainly feel the same way i am. I'm on this web page to find support, and i would like to hear MORE positive's about SUBOXONE, i'm just saying i really haven't found it yet! I'm enjoying everything you post, and love to hear about people's recovery. Maybe i'm looking in the wrong place to find the positive for this kind of medicine, if you can help me find where i need to go that would be great! I'm still learning and want to continue to learn all i can about my addiction and the SUBOXONE i'm on.
Thanks for your attention to this, and keep up your great support for us all..
God Bless~
Mommy

I didn't intend to come off as giving anyone a hard time. I get frustrated here sometimes myself.

You have to understand that NEVER has anyone had significant problems who I've inducted on subs, when they have followed the suggestions I make. IT ALWAYS works. There are a ton of success stories here. But people come here and their drs have them taking too high a dose, then they get mad at me because I'm telling them they're doing this all wrong WHEN THEY ARE! They end up taking subs for too long at too high a dose then expect me to get them off in a couple weeks. THAT is what you're reading about. Read the threads, not just the most recent posts. You'll see the whole story.

I get people who jump into the induction too soon, they go into precipitated w/d, they relapse, they take 2-3 times the amount they should take, they have been on heroin for years, all kinds of stuff. It's NOT the medication, it's the process people use to do this. That's why people search the net for answers and end up here, because they've been given the wrong instructions.

Drs get instructions from drug reps. These drs haven't done subs. They only know what they are told by salespeople who ironically have a BS degree. I am only trying to get you to see that you're likely taking too much like so many others here and unless you lower the dose properly you'll possibly end up like some of these others who are struggling. I hate to see that happen, so I do and say whatever I have to do to get people's attention. This is serious business. I actually care about people here unlike lots of sub drs who want your money. Not all drs, but if they're telling you wrong then they fall into that category like the rest of them there. Check out the sub therapy link below. God bless.

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

[anotheraddict]

Hello everyone,

I wanted to let you know that I am still here and still clean. I haven't been posting much as I don't have much to say. Still taking it one day at a time.

Jean

[suebone]

Thank you, Robert, for your advice. I will try 6mg and see how that works.

Susan

[mommy of 3]

Robert~
Thanks for the insight...
I do know that the dr i have been with for the past 20 some years, has handed EVERYTHING out like candy! Like i've said in one of my blogs, i'm with a "new" dr now, who practices natural remedies, but the only one in my town who can prescribe SUBOXONE, and i find it refreshing to have found her and blessed to have found her. When i first went in, she gave me a half dose of SUBOXONE, i guess that might have been 4mg??? but that wasn't enough for me as i was at the peek of my W/D...so she gave me the other half and i stayed in her office for a hour til she knew i was fine to leave..WOW, that was a change for me (as in Dr's), so like i said i'm on 8mg twice a day, and i see he next week for a check up...she will be working on all my chronic pain, with healing therapy, such as physical therapy, and to help with all my pain, WITHOUT using Pain meds... so i'm asking do you think this is too much for me at this time?? and if so why? i've been on this for one week today...

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by mommy of 3

Robert~
Thanks for the insight...
I do know that the dr i have been with for the past 20 some years, has handed EVERYTHING out like candy! Like i've said in one of my blogs, i'm with a "new" dr now, who practices natural remedies, but the only one in my town who can prescribe SUBOXONE, and i find it refreshing to have found her and blessed to have found her. When i first went in, she gave me a half dose of SUBOXONE, i guess that might have been 4mg??? but that wasn't enough for me as i was at the peek of my W/D...so she gave me the other half and i stayed in her office for a hour til she knew i was fine to leave..WOW, that was a change for me (as in Dr's), so like i said i'm on 8mg twice a day, and i see he next week for a check up...she will be working on all my chronic pain, with healing therapy, such as physical therapy, and to help with all my pain, WITHOUT using Pain meds... so i'm asking do you think this is too much for me at this time?? and if so why? i've been on this for one week today...

Most drs induct like you said. They give a patient 8mg and then another 8mg later. That is how probably 80% of the people here started. Everyone is supposed to take 16mg a day? That's what most drs RX and what the drug company says to do.

It's worked out best for us if you start with a slower induction with lower doses as explained in the sub link. It may take several hours to stabilize you from w/d but you'll stabilize at a lower dose like that then the way you did it. That's my experience at least. You start on a lower dose and begin the taper down after a couple weeks. Your opiate detox is about over then anyway. You're off everything in 6-8 weeks. You taper 25% of your dose every four days. It's simple if it's done that way from the start. God bless.

[anotheraddict]

Is it normal to struggle right around 30 days? Having a bit of a rough time, so just curious...

Jean

[MaisieC]

Originally Posted by anotheraddict

Is it normal to struggle right around 30 days? Having a bit of a rough time, so just curious...

Jean

Yes, 30 days is one of those classic difficult times. Are you in NA? Working with a sponsor?

[anotheraddict]

Thanks Maisie,

I am not in any program. I don't have the heart to drop this bomb on my family. I am sure that I will be okay, I just needed to know I wasn't alone

Jean

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by anotheraddict

Is it normal to struggle right around 30 days? Having a bit of a rough time, so just curious...

Jean

Hi jean
I'm sorry I didn't see your post...what is going on with you...
You know we can help...just tell us what your feeling...
Talk soon, Melinda

[anotheraddict]

Hi Melinda,

Don't worry about not seeing my post. I knew deep down I am not the only one who has dealt with this. I am just over 30 days now, and lately all I have been thinking about is using. My foot swelled up in epic proportions for about a week with no explanation, and all I wanted to do was get high.

The pain wasn't going away with my meds. Nothing was helping. No sleep. I couldn't put my foot into a shoe, literally. I really just want to numb myself. This sucks. It's all that I have been thinking about since the first day my foot turned into a balloon. It's back to normal now, but I still want the drugs! I am driving myself crazy here.

Jean

[melinda7.5]

Hi jean
I know it gets hard sometimes...this summer I will be coming up on a year clean and the thought still pops in my mind OH you need a vic...
your back hurts or my fibro is bothering me...But then I remember what is was like when I was addicted to those devil pills and all the money I spent on them....and what a wonderful life I have now...away from that mess...
your doing great for 30 days...this will be your first test for your self and I know you can pass it...just take it one day at a time...like Robert told me...just think about today,Because if you use tomorrow wont matter...
Hang in there...let me know how it's going and also when you feel like this post more it really does help...
I will be watching for you...
Talk to you soon, Melinda

[anotheraddict]

Melinda,

Thank you so much! Maybe it's dumb, but I guess I just needed to hear it from someone else. I am taking your advice and posting more Hey, if I can help myself and someone else at the same time, why not?

Thank you for sticking with me. I keep reminding myself that I am not alone. I gotta keep coming on here for inspiration, but if that's what it takes I will do it. I don't ever want to go back to that life. I hope you know how much your support means to me

Jean

[lilbri]

Jean congrat's on your one month clean. You know i think i would be right beside Melinda if i diden't have that back surgery in dec.Next week i will start again and befor you know it i will be right behind you. Good luck Brian.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by anotheraddict

Melinda,

Thank you so much! Maybe it's dumb, but I guess I just needed to hear it from someone else. I am taking your advice and posting more Hey, if I can help myself and someone else at the same time, why not?

Thank you for sticking with me. I keep reminding myself that I am not alone. I gotta keep coming on here for inspiration, but if that's what it takes I will do it. I don't ever want to go back to that life. I hope you know how much your support means to me

Jean

Hi Jean ... Remember that nothing is ever made better by using. You're at a very critical time right now. Almost everyone has cravings and wants to use at a month clean. You're going through the same things we all do. But you're getting on here and talking. You're doing the right thing.

I will never forget the first time I got a month clean. Notice I said the first time. I don't even remember how many times I made it to one month. I was the relapse king there for a while. I wasn't even able to speak in complete sentences yet. I really didn't think staying clean would make any difference for me at one month. My future seemed pretty bleak at that point. That was about nine years ago.

Lots has changed in the last nine years. I honestly never thought I would live this long. Every day you put behind you clean the easier it gets. Today the thought of taking even one oxy literally disgusts me. You'll get there if you give it enough time.

The hardest part for me was the fact that I have Rheumatoid Arthritis, deg disc disease, Raynaud's Phenomenon, had five knee operations, a foot surgery, scoliosis, the list goes on. That is all real and legitimate pain, so I was justified in taking those meds. I could go to the dr today and they would RX me whatever I asked for in a second. But it's not worth it to me. The day I fill a script for pain meds I'm history. That's the bottom line.

My left knee is so swollen right now it's almost half again it's normal size. I can't even bend it and it hurts like hell right this second. But using narcotic pain medication is OUT!!! I can't do it or I am right back to square one.

Don't use NO MATTER WHAT! Problems get better as long as we don't give in to them. Hang in there. God bless.

[anotheraddict]

Hey guys! Thank you for stopping by and offering your support

Brian,
I am glad to see that you are still chugging along in your quest to be free again. I am all too familiar with post-op pain, and I know how hard it is to get off of the darn things. You can do it, though When I am at 60, I look forward to congratulating you on 30, ok?

Robert,
I am sorry to hear about your knee. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers

Thank you for your kind words and encouragement. I had a rough time recently with a horrible flare where my foot looked like a balloon for a week. But, the greatest thing happened. I took a pill as I was to the point of literally screaming in pain. When that pill wore off, I didn't have any urge to go get another one. I didn't even think about it. I did not get high, nothing like that. I was able to not hurt as bad. I did not take the full dose I am supposed to, though either. I do not need that. So, I have gone from taking meds 3X a day at least every day to maybe taking 1/2 a pill when the pain is just too excruciating.

I have given this a lot of thought since then. I know that I am at risk, and I can manage most times without the pills. But, I don't think that I should consider this a relapse. I consciously made the decision to take a piece of a pill as the pain was very bad, and I did not continue taking them afterward. They are not in my possession, I must ask if I need one. I don't want to look weak, so I evaluate myself very harshly before even thinking of asking. If I think that I may even slightly be looking for a buzz, then I cannot have the pill. I don't care how bad I hurt. If I am seeking a buzz, then I am asking for trouble.

While I may not be able to control my condition, I can control my response to it. In addition, I spoke with my PM doc about how best to use my TENS unit to combat the new pains I am having. I am hoping to manage my flares with the TENS and not ever have to touch a pill again.

I know some people will tell me I am not clean and sober. If that's the way that you think, I cannot change it. However, I think that motivations have a lot to do with being clean and sober. I think most of you guys here understand what I mean. I don't mean that I think I can go back to where I was before. I have made it so that I cannot go back there. Ever. I have detoxed too many times.

Jean

PS: By the way, last month was the first month that I did not run out of pills. I actually had some left over They are safely locked away from me, but I was proud of myself...

[Robert_325]

I would never judge you or try to take your inventory. I mistakenly thought that you had completely stopped the pain meds and was trying to offer support.

If you require a pill or part of a pill to manage your pain that is your call. You know if you need it vs just wanting it. I simply misunderstood. I hope the best for you. I've certainly been there where I had no choice with medications.

I can see by your signature that you're involved in NA. Basic text around page 98-99 talks about using meds during times of need. If that is what it takes for you then it's fine. Just be careful. That is between you and God certainly not me. Good luck and God bless.

[anotheraddict]

Robert,

I do appreciate your help, really. I don't want to come across as though I am taking them on a consistent basis, though, either. This was the first time since March that I broke down. I am taking this 100% seriously. It's not a game, it's life and death. The only reason the pills are even in the household is that I cannot afford the ER trip should my pain become too bad.

Just a little perspective, I was literally screaming last night as it hurt so bad. I do not make the decision on my own to take the meds anymore. I have asked my parents to put them away and told them I may only have what I ask for if they can tell I am not bs'ing them. They are locked away in a safe that I cannot open. This is for my own safety. I am not strong enough to have them and take them under my discretion.I don't know if I will ever be, but I will deal with whatever may come.

Thank you for not judging me. I really hope I haven't let anyone down. I am so upset with myself for taking what I did...

Jean

[anotheraddict]

I am stepping away from the board. I do not feel as though I can help others get clean when I am not technically clean myself. Thank you.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by anotheraddict

I am stepping away from the board. I do not feel as though I can help others get clean when I am not technically clean myself. Thank you.

Jean .... why would you do that???? There is NO reason to leave the board. That is what this place is for. Let the members here help and support you! Saying you have to leave because you're not technically clean is like saying I can't go to a church until after I've become a Christian. You're welcome here always. Talk to me! God bless.

[brndout]

Hi -This is Linda I just want you to know that the relationship you have with this forum is symbiotic- it helps you and you help it. It doesn't matter if you have had to take some pills to help with pain. You are further along then someone else down the line and so on. If we all waited until we were perfect there would be no one on here .Except Robert , of course --kidding Robert seeing if your still on your game - Don't leave the board or I'll have to cause I can't quit smoking and I'm a control freak with an anxiety disorder- I could go on and on-I really could Linda

[melinda7.5]

Hi Linda
Did i tell you about chantix.They should pay me for how much I talk about them.But it works good...when I get stressed I smoke a cigarette and then another..and then I'm in trouble,so I call my doctor for a refill. Its like the sub meds for smoking...
you don't even want or think about a cigarette...

Hi jean
There are other people around here that are still using.
just keep us close to you don't run away...
Hang in there...
Talk to you later, Melinda

[brndout]

Hi Melinda - I have seen you mention it but I am a very strange smoker(?) I could never do the patches as they are too strong .I can go two days without a cig if I am not stressed but can go through a pack and a half in an evening if I am I never smoke during the day at all only after 6.00 or so. Would Chantix work on that kind of weird habit? Linda

[melinda7.5]

Hi Linda
I really don't smoke all the time...When I get stressed I go buy a pack and get myself in trouble.and then I take the chantex and it makes me stop.
Robert does not like cigarettes. so I'm sneaking when I smoke...LOL
It takes me about five days and I don't want to smoke anymore and then I'm good for a few months...

Robert told me to ask you if you are eating those cigaretts..LOL

I think you smoke just for a stress release also...
We just need to find another stress release thats all.
Talk to you later, Melinda

[brndout]

Well I'll give it a try since it works for you and we seem to be stress smokers. Well I am assuming that Robert is on his game since he is wondering if I ate my cigarettes , unless he didn't even read my post and then it makes me wonder -what is he eating? Love you guys ! Linda

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi -This is Linda I just want you to know that the relationship you have with this forum is symbiotic- it helps you and you help it. It doesn't matter if you have had to take some pills to help with pain. You are further along then someone else down the line and so on. If we all waited until we were perfect there would be no one on here .Except Robert , of course --kidding Robert seeing if your still on your game - Don't leave the board or I'll have to cause I can't quit smoking and I'm a control freak with an anxiety disorder- I could go on and on-I really could Linda

[Kissy1979]

Hello! I have been going through all of the posts on here, trying to decide something for myself. 2 years ago I had a terrible accident, and injured my back severly. I have been on percocet fo a year and a half, and honestly don not take it as prescribed. I dont usually take them during the day, but mostly at night before bed, due to pain. I am supposed to take 8 throughout the course of the day. I am 29 years old, and mother of a 4 year old son. I am having surgery soon, but wanted to check this out to see if my body is still going to be addicted after the surgery. I am sooo scared of what could be. As I said before, I try not to take any during the day, but at night I am up to 6 to get me to not feel pain, but the doctor will not up my milligrams, even though I think my body is becoming tolerant, since I take the percocet at night evey night. Sorry such a long post, but I am frightened of the possible outcome and could use some advice.

[melinda7.5]

Hi kissy
are you saying your not going to have the pain after the surgery...
If so then you can just taper off the perc's or are you worried that you will be in to much pain after the surgery and the pain pills wont work...
let me know , Melinda