[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by chrish1

Great point Coming Home. In my NA home group, we always recommend that the newcomer should do 90 meetings in 90 days. From my experience, the ones who put forth that total effort stay clean. It sounds like a lot, but it is worth it to get clean and stay clean. I got a sponsor after 30 days clean. I've had the same sponsor for about 2 1/2 years now - wow, how time flies....

Good luck everyone.

Chrish

I have always thought that 90 in 90 was way too easy for a real addict. Not near enough time to get better, not for me at least. I relapsed more than once and did almost three years in NA the first time and missed four meetings total. I was not even making complete sentences yet at 90 days. I worked the 12 steps 3 1/2 times during those first three years, worked the traditions and service concepts too. Did all levels of service work, chaired meetings, etc. I still needed more. Thankfully I have put together some real clean time again.

12 step recovery is great. It truly saved my life. Made an NA meeting last night before the debate. But for me personally it wasn't until I developed a true relationship with God through Jesus Christ that things really got better. Recovery and true faith really do go together at least for me even though in 12 step recovery they talk only about a Higher Power of our own understanding. There is nothing real about recovery for me unless my spiritual condition is right. My entire state of recovery is in direct relationship with my spiritual condition and my relationship with Christ. That is just me. Whatever works for each person is what works. God bless.

[sa2008]

Originally Posted by Doggy

I have a really good friend who is addicted to the pain killer Hydrocodone. Anyhow she wants to stop but everytime she does she gets really bad withdrawals such as sweating and shaking, can't sleep, etc. I was wondering if anyone out there has been through this on their own without going to a treatment center. If so please tell me what to do for her and how long it took for the withdrawals to go away!!!! HELP!!!!

Dear Doggy, my personal experience was that withdrawal misery lasted about 7 days. They will be rough days and it would be good if you were there to help her and to encourage her. She may get angry with you or anyone present as she may be very short tempered, frustrated, craving the drug but she MUST make up her mind and stick to her guns. The addiction can be kicked cold turkey without going through a program but the person has to be totally committed and the drug should not be available should she decide to change her mind. That is a very dangerous safety net and if she goes to the pills then all is lost. It's not easy but it can be done. I wish her God speed and the courage to stop.

[ComingHome]

YO Chrish and Nixon. Y'all got it right.

Robert - great point. 90 meetings in 90 days is meant to be a baseline (minimum), and I personally did about 130 meetings in the first 90 days. Guess what happened? I had 90 clean days after those 90 days. :-) Some can get clean and get a good baseline on just 90/90, but I needed more also.

Money Chick - congrats on your clean time. Let us know how y'all doin'.

Cominghome

[chrish1]

Originally Posted by ComingHome

YO Chrish and Nixon. Y'all got it right.

Robert - great point. 90 meetings in 90 days is meant to be a baseline (minimum), and I personally did about 130 meetings in the first 90 days. Guess what happened? I had 90 clean days after those 90 days. :-) Some can get clean and get a good baseline on just 90/90, but I needed more also.

Money Chick - congrats on your clean time. Let us know how y'all doin'.

Cominghome

That's true - 90 meetings in 90 days is a great baseline.

The most important thing is to make up your mind to not use TODAY. All we need is one day clean, today. Get a higher power, a support system, prayer, meditation, step, get a sponsor, work the steps, service work, and help others. It is a formula for success, but it must be worked with no excuses

Good luck everyone!

Chrish

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by chrish1

That's true - 90 meetings in 90 days is a great baseline.

The most important thing is to make up your mind to not use TODAY. All we need is one day clean, today. Get a higher power, a support system, prayer, meditation, step, get a sponsor, work the steps, service work, and help others. It is a formula for success, but it must be worked with no excuses

Good luck everyone!

Chrish

Just noticed your clean date and birthday. Congratulations. Three years is very cool. You should be proud of yourself. God bless.

[chrish1]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Just noticed your clean date and birthday. Congratulations. Three years is very cool. You should be proud of yourself. God bless.

Thanks Robert. I got married this year on my 3 year clean date (birthday).

Congrats to all with clean time or the desire to stop.

Chrish

[ComingHome]

Originally Posted by chrish1

Thanks Robert. I got married this year on my 3 year clean date (birthday).

Congrats to all with clean time or the desire to stop.

Chrish

YO Chrish - congrats on yo clean time YO! That is a HUGE accomplishment YO. Hey-ya, you keep it up y'all, ya hear.

Listen up all you newbies: 90 meetings in 90 days. Get a sponsor, work the steps. If your not doing at least that much, you're probably not staying clean for a year or more.

YO!

coming home

[chrish1]

Where are all of the old school on this board (back from '06)?
I know some of you are lurking. Reveal yourself! :-)

Not So Clueless NJ ????? I know you are lurking for sure!

Chrish

[python134r]

Just saying hello, I have much to post but today is the 1 year anniversary of the passing of my girlfriend, Tanya 24 years old and I just feeling pretty depressed. I left flowers, photos and some thing I've written where she was found. I need to put some closure on this.
I am still fighting my own demons.....coming along, it's not easy, but I am persistent.

For those who don't know me I kinda posted my bio or pedigree back in august. I will be back tomorrow night, I need to "talk"

[melinda7.5]

Hi Phython
We are always here if you need us. so sorry to here about your girlfriend.
You are in my prayers,Melinda

[money_chick]

Python, I'm sorry about your girlfriend. Youll be in my prayers.

For those following, today is 26 days for IneedaMiracle and myself. We detoxed together, and both still clean.


chris- Ive been here since 05, registered 06. I remember Momof3, NJ, Clueless... who else? Of there are a bunch clean from those few months together. I wonder about them alot.

[basis]

Hi all,

Well, I am down to my last day of pills...today (Sat Oct 18th) so I will be withdrawing starting tomorrow. I've decided that this habit is just too expensive and dangerous for me. I am really lucky that I found a Dr. relatively quickly who could and did prescribe me suboxone. The bottle says a total of 16 mg a day, 8 mg twice a day I'm guessing that's AM and PM.

Does somebody mind telling me what else I might want to get during the withdrawal period? (I'll search other posts too), maybe cause I am using Suboxone, withdrawal symptoms will be real short term cause replacement therapy will start as soon as I am sufficiently uncomfortable. Does anyone have an opinon of what "sufficently uncomfortable" is.

Keeping my fingers crossed! This is my first time trying to quit. Been popping these pills not too long, I'd say 6 - 8 months, but on average took about 160 of oxy a day.

Thanks to anybody that supports me.

Basis (male, 37 yrs old, Seattle)

[basis]

Python134r,

I am so sorry to hear about your girlfriend's sad anniversary. My thoughts are with you. Basis

[python134r]

Money_chick, Melinda, Basis thanx for the kind words.

I am tapering off Sub and with that done the real work starts, at least for me.
Same old story, every time I relapse I forget I am an addict, stop going to meetings and isolate. Every time.

I am done. I have moved out of the area where most of my folks(support network) live so its off to a new 12 step house for me, plenty around and of course there's always the phone, great item to use when you feel like using.

Lately, I have been isolating which is a real danger for me, so I network however I can. I've realized when I get antzy[is that a real word?] I have to talk about how I feel, I have to get it out or I will use.

The pain I live with physically, is no where near the pain I cause to myself using. The pain those who love me feel and the pain of losing loved ones and friends to this disease.

I am starting to feel a little better today, all I have is today.

Basis-when you start withdrawal from the oxy start the sub, you should feel better within an hour, just make sure you are in withdrawal, say last oxy 12-24hrs.

[basis]

Python,

Thank you for your response. I am humbled by your willingness to help others (me) when you have so much on your plate.

I hope things clear up for you rapidly. Serenity is all I wish for myself and if it is something you desire, may you find it as soon as it's available.

Warmest wishes and thoughts, Basis

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by basis

Hi all,

Well, I am down to my last day of pills...today (Sat Oct 18th) so I will be withdrawing starting tomorrow. I've decided that this habit is just too expensive and dangerous for me. I am really lucky that I found a Dr. relatively quickly who could and did prescribe me suboxone. The bottle says a total of 16 mg a day, 8 mg twice a day I'm guessing that's AM and PM.

Does somebody mind telling me what else I might want to get during the withdrawal period? (I'll search other posts too), maybe cause I am using Suboxone, withdrawal symptoms will be real short term cause replacement therapy will start as soon as I am sufficiently uncomfortable. Does anyone have an opinon of what "sufficently uncomfortable" is.

Keeping my fingers crossed! This is my first time trying to quit. Been popping these pills not too long, I'd say 6 - 8 months, but on average took about 160 of oxy a day.

Thanks to anybody that supports me.

Basis (male, 37 yrs old, Seattle)

Your dr is having you do this entirely WRONG. I am serious. You don't take your last oxy today and start in the morning on suboxone. Plus you don't know the dose you need during induction at this point. It's different for each of us. You don't just automatically take 8mg twice a day. This is how people get started on suboxone that you read horror stories about.

I do not make a habit out of suggesting that people don't do as the dr said. But you have not been given the right instruction. I would be glad to help if you want me to. But I won't intervene again unless you specifically ask me to and are willing to follow the CORRECT instructions for using suboxone. I know the right way to use this medication so it's effective and you still get off it in a short time. Let me know if I can help. I just don't want to put a bunch of time into it unless you want me to and are ready for the advice. Good luck and God bless.

[NHL 17]

Robert, I just wanted to let you know, yesterday I was reading all some of your post and it gave me the courage to detox and get clean,today is day two for me and it is a living hell.my legs will not stop shaking and I feel like I got the flu from hell. But your post and words about Christ are helping me bigtime. I just wanted to let you know what a help you are, I still have about 15 pills, my wife hid them from me and I am glad she did, I just hope I can make it to the other side.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by NHL 17

Robert, I just wanted to let you know, yesterday I was reading all some of your post and it gave me the courage to detox and get clean,today is day two for me and it is a living hell.my legs will not stop shaking and I feel like I got the flu from hell. But your post and words about Christ are helping me bigtime. I just wanted to let you know what a help you are, I still have about 15 pills, my wife hid them from me and I am glad she did, I just hope I can make it to the other side.

Thanks for posting. I really appreciate that. It's when I read a post like yours that it makes me know I am not wasting my time. YOU and people like you are why I do what I do.

I was the most fried drug addict there ever was I think. It sends a shiver down my back when I think about some of the things I did. Not just the drugs but the criminal lifestyle too. When I finally dropped to my knees and cried my ass off for some real help I got what I really needed. I have never been the same person since that day. I renew my faith every day. I ask for help again every day through Jesus Christ. That is the only way I can do this life clean. Otherwise no one wants to have anything to do with me. I have been a total bottom feeder my whole life. Nothing but a parasite. But I was given mercy, not justice. God has not let me down yet and He won't you either IF you make the commitment.

Just a suggestion. When we keep a stash hid back that is a reservation. A reservation is a relapse waiting to happen. We can't do this halfway. I know you are focused from what you've said. So have your wife throw the goofy pills down the toilet. You will feel SOOOOOO much better knowing you were strong enough to do that. If you keep them eventually you will get into them if you are an addict like me. I couldn't even sleep if I knew there were pills in my house. It would drive me nuts. God will recognize your effort and reward you with more strength for this battle if you give it to Him and throw the pills away. Why do you need them if you are stopping anyway? Throw them away. That is my one piece of advice if you listen to anything I say. That is how you get to the other side my friend. Stay in touch and let us know how it's going. Let me know when the pills are gone too. God bless.

[basis]

Yes, yes please. Robert I have read many posts here and you can refer me back to them to save you time. But your input would be appreciated.

Just to give you kind of a history on me, I became addicted to Oxy almost on purpose due to a nihilistic (stupid) streak in me.

I am a benzo (xanax) addict and have been for many years. I have performance anxiety and xanax was first prescribed to me in 1989. It did wonders and I was great with it until 2001 cause I used it "only as needed", maybe four times an year and only when giving presentations at work. Then I bumped into a Dr. who prescribed it very liberally (I am seriously at fault here too but had no idea that detox on it would be so insane)...anyways he retired and I couldn't find a Dr. who would prescribe anymore so I Dr. shopped out of desperation then hit the internet (I thought it was the jackpot at the time)...wow, so I started getting 90 2 mg zani-bars delivered to me on a regular basis. So my consumption from ~2003 to 2006 was anywhere from 2 mg to 10 mg a day. I also picked up an ambien habit. I got fired from my job (may or may not be related to xanax, xanax probably made me more comfortable confronting the CEO with some unethical stuff he did) I read Ashton took my ample supply of xanax and withdrew over about two months down to 1 mg a day then went cold turkey (I got impatient cause the tapering sucked too, I would never suggest a precipitous drop like I did though)...this was 9/06. My family was involved, I stayed with them in case of a grand mal, went insane for three days (amazing how I looked totally normal but could not even talk to a stranger without almost passing out) and stayed clean of everything, I mean everything...sugar reacted with my system cause I was so sensitive to everything. Fast forward eight months of hell to 6/07 and financially I just had to start working again and I was just too anxious, so I fell off the wagon, not making excuses, it's what happened.

Because I am "brilliant" I of course had left about 30 2 mg tabs when I quit "just in case" I needed them. Well, I am and became a benzo freak again. After many calls I found a very expensive psycho-therapist that is willing to prescribe 1.5 mg a day plus .5 mg a day clonazepam as long as I see him every week for psycho babble, we spend 50% of our time arguing over xanax, I started with him in 6/07 and continue to see him weekly to this day, I have not told him about oxy and he has never hinted that he thinks something is up. Well, that wasn't enough to make me feel secure (I was am still am very concerned about supply of benzos due to the debilitating nature of a forced fast withdrawal) but for some reason I didn't do the internet or buy from the sales people that call me every day about three times a day to this day (I think I am afraid of a "sting", I don't know, separate issue). So I asked a lady that works at a 7-11 about "pills"...well guess what happened? I found "some" xanax but a ******************** load of oxy. So here I sit today, a poly-substance abuser that added oxy to the equation almost as an afterthought. It took effort for me to get addicted and I've never been out so I don't even know what withdrawal feels like. Being a planner I set up the suboxone. This is my drug intake:

1) 80 mg of prozac (almost an afterthought, long half life and since I don't feel any withdrawal or effect I "forget" to take it sometimes for weeks)

2) Anywhere from 1 mg to 3 mg of xanax daily

3) Anywhere from 0 mg to 3 mg of clonazepam (once again does not get me high so I don't care about it like I do the xanax), but it ain't a sugar pill so I do take them at night sometimes.

4) 20 - 50 mg of ambien nightly. 98% of the time I take 20 mg.

5) Oxycontin - my usage went up like a hockey stick and only over the past 8 months or so? I went from 20 mg a day to 160 mg during that period. I am quitting cause it's a felony, insanely expensive and I never even got euphoria out of it, but I must of gotten something? My xanax usage did go down and the anxiety related to not having an adequate supply of xanax diminished when I had a large supply of Oxy. I don't snort, smoke, intravenously shoot or even chew the oxy...just swallow it. Xanax is my main problem, but I am focusing on quitting the oxy's for now.

6) Alcohol - once a weekish, just limited interest due to the pills...I quit drinking for three years when I was doing heavy xanax, I am older and I don't tolerate alcohol like I used to. I habitually enjoyed drinking a pint of scotch in 2003, now a heavy beer is not even that appreciated, I gain weight quick too when I drink...whew I am still a little vain!

7) Other drugs - nothing except other benzos or opiates. Limited interest and supply.

I am considering going back to the fellowship, I haven't done it right yet (off and on since 1994), but I'm open to listening and do learn a lot at them when I go.

That's pretty much it...Robert, would you help a loser like me? Picking up an oxy addiction as an after thought...I just can't believe myself!

Thank you! Basis

[musicman48]

Originally Posted by NHL 17

Robert, I just wanted to let you know, yesterday I was reading all some of your post and it gave me the courage to detox and get clean,today is day two for me and it is a living hell.my legs will not stop shaking and I feel like I got the flu from hell. But your post and words about Christ are helping me bigtime. I just wanted to let you know what a help you are, I still have about 15 pills, my wife hid them from me and I am glad she did, I just hope I can make it to the other side.

Robert is so right about this..Long story short I ended up with 90 lorcets a few days into recovery and I flushed them...I felt so proud..almost high from watching them go into the toilet...Being proud really helped motivate me...Throw them away...You will feell more solid about your conviction...You need total 100 percent mental commitment or forget it....Throw them away ...you will feel better about yourself and that will help your mental attitude...Good luck !

[NHL 17]

Robert, I just flushed the pills down the toilet me and my wife together.I just hope I can make it cold turkey, I see on here alot of people get help with other meds, to help with the w/d. The w/d are the worst I am in a fog and it is awful.I got to the point I was not feeling good with the pills, I was taking them just to fuction.But I knew it had to stop or it would kill me,just pray that I make it to feeling good again and thank you again for your Help.

[melinda7.5]

Hi NHL
WOW,I hope your very proud of yourself,I did that also,flushed my last vic's right down to toilet.when i did that i knew i had made it.You will be just fine in a few days,just doesn't seem like it right now.LOL,try to keep your mind busy,let some time pass...we are all here cheering you on !!!
Proud of you,Melinda

[musicman48]

Originally Posted by NHL 17

Robert, I just flushed the pills down the toilet me and my wife together.I just hope I can make it cold turkey, I see on here alot of people get help with other meds, to help with the w/d. The w/d are the worst I am in a fog and it is awful.I got to the point I was not feeling good with the pills, I was taking them just to fuction.But I knew it had to stop or it would kill me,just pray that I make it to feeling good again and thank you again for your Help.

Way to go man ! I have said this in many posts but if you can get some chamomile tea at the supermarket it will help calm you down the next few days...it will help you sleep better too.Congrats man! There are other over the counter things you can buy too.like Imodium A D .Check into it...Cool!

[python134r]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Thanks for posting. I really appreciate that. It's when I read a post like yours that it makes me know I am not wasting my time. YOU and people like you are why I do what I do.

I was the most fried drug addict there ever was I think. It sends a shiver down my back when I think about some of the things I did. Not just the drugs but the criminal lifestyle too. When I finally dropped to my knees and cried my ass off for some real help I got what I really needed. I have never been the same person since that day. I renew my faith every day. I ask for help again every day through Jesus Christ. That is the only way I can do this life clean. Otherwise no one wants to have anything to do with me. I have been a total bottom feeder my whole life. Nothing but a parasite. But I was given mercy, not justice. God has not let me down yet and He won't you either IF you make the commitment.

Just a suggestion. When we keep a stash hid back that is a reservation. A reservation is a relapse waiting to happen. We can't do this halfway. I know you are focused from what you've said. So have your wife throw the goofy pills down the toilet. You will feel SOOOOOO much better knowing you were strong enough to do that. If you keep them eventually you will get into them if you are an addict like me. I couldn't even sleep if I knew there were pills in my house. It would drive me nuts. God will recognize your effort and reward you with more strength for this battle if you give it to Him and throw the pills away. Why do you need them if you are stopping anyway? Throw them away. That is my one piece of advice if you listen to anything I say. That is how you get to the other side my friend. Stay in touch and let us know how it's going. Let me know when the pills are gone too. God bless.

Robert,
Every one of the posts I read from you give me hope, I have had years of clean time (7 consecutive) once and those were the best years of my life. This last post about reservations hit me like a brick wall. Reservations kill. Whether it kills the desire to be honest with ones self or outright kill one with an OD its the same thing in the end.
I went to a meeting this evening, I dropped alot of baggage, I felt somewhat better but for me its like taking baby steps again, I never was at this particular meeting but I shared and asked for someone to be my sponsor, even a temporary one. I was overwhelmed by the response. I am not new to the rooms but something clicked in my head. I am going to do as suggested, 90 and 90 or more, when I'm ready do some service. Like I said little steps.

I have hope, for today that's enough, I have always been there to help others, but I need to save some for myself. I must have heard that hundreds of times over the years.

Just want to say thank you for taking the time to relay to others what worked for you and truly living an altruistic lifestyle.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by NHL 17

Robert, I just flushed the pills down the toilet me and my wife together.I just hope I can make it cold turkey, I see on here alot of people get help with other meds, to help with the w/d. The w/d are the worst I am in a fog and it is awful.I got to the point I was not feeling good with the pills, I was taking them just to fuction.But I knew it had to stop or it would kill me,just pray that I make it to feeling good again and thank you again for your Help.

You are the man!!! I am so impressed!!!

OK the tea that musicman mentioned is helpful. Immodium AD is good for diarrhea. It has an opiate base and will help you but won't hurt your recovery. Drink gatorade as you will get dehydrated from the diarrhea and gatorade is loaded with electrolytes. Get some exercise no matter how much it hurts. Just go for a walk. Don't have to run 5 miles or anything. But exercise helps to start your body producing natural endorphines and that will help with your overall well being.

None of us felt high off the pills anymore. They were killing us. That can't feel good. You just turned a HUGE corner ditching those pills. Doesn't it feel good??? I bet your wife is proud of you big time! Keep posting and we will be here for you I promise.

Remember that when all else fails you can drop to your knees. Just got to be humble and have faith when you do that. It's very serious and it doesn't work unless we are serious too. Christ says in the Sermon On the Mount "... ask and you shall receive." It may sound corny but isn't that simple??? All we have to do is ask. He promises us that He will be there. He hasn't let me down yet. I will keep you in my prayers too. He always answers mine. Good luck with this and God bless.

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by python134r

Robert,
Every one of the posts I read from you give me hope, I have had years of clean time (7 consecutive) once and those were the best years of my life. This last post about reservations hit me like a brick wall. Reservations kill. Whether it kills the desire to be honest with ones self or outright kill one with an OD its the same thing in the end.
I went to a meeting this evening, I dropped alot of baggage, I felt somewhat better but for me its like taking baby steps again, I never was at this particular meeting but I shared and asked for someone to be my sponsor, even a temporary one. I was overwhelmed by the response. I am not new to the rooms but something clicked in my head. I am going to do as suggested, 90 and 90 or more, when I'm ready do some service. Like I said little steps.

I have hope, for today that's enough, I have always been there to help others, but I need to save some for myself. I must have heard that hundreds of times over the years.

Just want to say thank you for taking the time to relay to others what worked for you and truly living an altruistic lifestyle.

Thanks for your post. I appreciate this one too! This is a cool night. I was going to go to an NA meeting at 8:00 and I haven't stopped typing in three hours. So I didn't make it. But this is just as good of medicine reading these good news posts. I am very happy for you. You did good dumping your baggage and getting a sponsor. Having been there before you know how important that is. And 90 in 90 is good too. I missed four meetings in three years at one point. 90 days of meetings daily wasn't enough for this "pickle". I can never be a cucumber again. And reservations do kill addicts every day. That is why I rant about it like I do sometimes.

Saving some of that help for yourself is a good idea. I couldn't agree more in fact. I try to help others on this web site but don't think for a second that this doesn't do me more good than anyone who reads the posts. I get so much for myself by participating. And I need that on a daily basis, either here or somewhere else. But I need the constructive activities to be successful in recovery.

I've never really thought of myself as being an altruist before. But thank you that is cool. I try to be selfless when I can but I have to admit that part of this is for me too. Keep us posted how you are doing. I'm really interested to hear about it. Good luck and God bless.

[Robert_325]

Wow dude! You sound almost as bad as me. I truly understand the benzo thing. NOTHING was ever as bad as a benzo detox. I did suffer seizures, electric shock syndrome, etc. The shocks were so bad they would almost knock me down sometimes. It was so painful. But I made it and am now benzo free too. I was taking 15-20mg of xanax and 6-8mg of klonopin a day. Did that for over 25 years. That is soooo freakin stupid. I still don't believe that I did that to myself. You need to get off the benzos. I think you said that you read the Ashton Manual??? That is probably the best benzo detox plan available. But a taper off xanax should be done with valium or at least klonopin as they have so much longer half lives than xanax. The half life is why it's so difficult to detox off xanax. It's gone in less than 12 hours where with valium it's more like 50-70 hours. Klonopin is a little less than valium. That is what Dr Ashton says in the Ashton Manual too.

As far as the suboxone goes and when to get started ... you need to have a COWS worksheet. COWS is clinical opiate withdrawal scale. This tells us when our detox w/d symptoms are severe enough to begin the suboxone without going into precipitated w/d. Check the following link for the worksheet.

http://www.suboxone.com/pdfs/OWR.pdf

You MUST score above a 26 accumulatively off all the questions. You've got to be honest about this though or you are just hurting yourself. You do the induction right and take the right dose this will be a breeze I promise even with your history. I abused everything for over 35 years. Was doing 30 30mg oxy a day along with the benzos and subs worked great for me. I was on sub and off it in six weeks and had no w/d symptoms at all once I began.

Look over the worksheet in detail. I figure you will probably have a couple questions. So reply again when you finish with the sheet. Let me know if you have any questions. If we are going to do this I will need to hear from you almost every day. Lots of these sub drs just pass out the medication and think we are all the same. But this is done on a case basis. Thats why I need to hear from you so I tell you the right things to do. And I am here daily. I won't miss your posts. I will look for your reply after reading the COWS sheet. God bless.

[basis]

Thank you Robert! The COA will be extremely helpful. I had no idea that there was something like this but it totally makes sense that there is!

That kind of hurt that you were "impressed" with my benzo usage...lol...but since you've been through it I suppose you understand why the opiate withdrawal is lower on my concern scale. We'll see how I feel about that after I go into w/d though! Totally new territory for me.

I have a feeling you already know this, but I was thinking of spiking my xanax intake as I start to become uncomfortable with w/d. I've decided against that though and will keep it at the minimum dose to keep true benzo w/d at a minimum. A little disconcerting as the w/d symptoms on paper are somewhat similar but it will be interesting to see if I can tell the difference between them. I will be very honest and clinical about this w/d, I have no back-up stash of opiates the way I did for benzos. I have no desire to precipitate withdrawals though. I have taken suboxone once, a dealer gave it to me with some ativan and told me it was "an opiate", I looked it up on the pill identifier and figured what it was. Believe I took 4 mg (1/2 a pill) and I don't remember it being a very pleasant experience. I really forgot what it did, I think I was just tired and it lasted forever it seemed like, so I hear you about the long half life of Sub from experience.

One huge thing to my detriment is that I have never been disciplined enough on xanax to keep my dose consistent. I am definitely better than I was in 2003 when I had zani-bars all over the place and popped 2 mg at a time (instead of .5 mg now) but I still haven't instituted the discipline of taking the benzo at the same time each day, I told my shrink I did, but I usually take 1 mg in the morning first thing, then .5 mg as needed throughout the day, I'm sure it woudl make life easier on me if I wasn't going through intra-dose withdrawals.

OK, thanks again for looking out for me and we'll see how this goes. I'm out of opiates as of two hours ago and from experience know that I'll be fine when I wake up...inexplicably I've uncharacteristicaly skipped ambien the last couple nights...part related to work (had to pull an all nighter), partly due to increased opiate activity over the past couple days and being so dead tired that ambien was actually not needed cause I fell asleep working.

Thanks again, makes me feel better that I have an experienced person sort of "sponsoring" my detox...sorry for the incorrect nomenclature, whatever the case appreciated!

Basis

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That would be COW...not COA...thanks!

Basis

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One last comment about benzos and Dr's. I know this from experience and also from reading posts around here and the Ashton related site's forum www.benzo.org.uk, why is it that it is so hard to find a Dr in the US who will agree to a valium taper. Some of them seem to look at valium as though it's Schedule I drug and klonopin like it's aspirin. What gives? Totally made me lose faith in Dr's level of interest in tranquilizer withdrawal. Alprazalom and lorazepam are both in the top ten most prescribed medications in the US (don't quote me on that but I know they are up there) and Dr's appear ignorant about w/d syndrome here in the US. I never found a live support group for bezo w/d. I knew from on-line about the grand mal potential, depersonalization etc etc heavy issues with benzo cessation so it hurt 9for the first month felt like everyone I ever cared about had passed away, it was like a sense of manufactured grief from the w/d) but I wasn't surprised by it when it hit. Sure would of been nice to have a support group to meet with to tell me I'm not crazy. How many people who got a benzo prescribed to them for say grief or anxiety or fear of flying ended up getting hooked and tried to quit only to slam into incomprehensible w/d? I don't know, just ranting, wrong forum and audience. Sorry, I'm here for opiate w/d, benzos make me mad though!