[Baby Steps]

Thanks NY! I haven't taken any and I know I have to throw them out! I want to so bad! Also, I've only been on meds for a year and at my company I've been superwoman for 5yrs. I've always been a non stop flight! W/O drugs! LOL But I've never ever felt like this! It's hard to handle because I'm not the emotional kind however I'm compassionate and caring if that makes sense. I can't seem to find the old me OR the Hydro me???!!! CRAZY!

I don't know this me... How can I expect anyone around me to? My boyfriend just thinks it's the holiday stress and seems to buy that FOR NOW... See he has NO idea! This is def. a very very dark little secret.

I will be strong!

Thanks again NY! How was your day sweetie? Day 3 right?

[unclenasty93]

I am not a big fan of planning a date in the near future to get clean. The only way this behavior is acceptable is if you are waiting to see a doctor or check into a facility and you have an appt. set for an upcoming day. If it is just a matter of you telling yourself that this date coming up is the day to do it, it is your addiction loking for more time to use. We, as addicts, will always try to buy time. Then the date arrives and, uh oh, someting came up, can't do it today anymore, maybe next Monday. The only way to do it is to do it. It is so easy and comfortable to put it off for a few days, those days just have a tendency to turn into weeks.

Something else that GREATLY concerns me: those of you who have pills in your homes or refills available at pharmacies, NOT A GOOD IDEA!!!! This addiction is so much stronger than we are, it will stop at nothing to find a way to continue. Why put yourself in a situation where it would be so easy to use??? You may think you have enough strength to have the pills but not take them, WRONG!!! When it comes to this disease we are POWERLESS. Get rid of those pills and refills. Do not give one of the most powerful, opportunistic forces on earth(addiction) an easy way to succeed. Belive me, if you have them eventually you will more than likely use them. Protect your recovery! peace.

[Baby Steps]

Uncle: Thanks for the post and words. You do speak from wisdom I can see. Thanks. I called my very dear friend/Admin. Asst. who has cancer and is really the only one I told a little about this and she had her husband come over with her and she took the pills! I have to say... NOT EASY TO DO but I do feel a sense of relief as well. It was screaming "TAKE HALF"

So I appreciate your brutal honesty and BTW... it's nice to meet you!

I hope you have a great evening!!

[nymommy]

~~uncle..you are SOOO right about keeping pills...after 3 mos on sub i was recently tested, and almost caved..had those 2 pills for ever, never even thought of using them...then there i was holding them in my hand..i flushed them, cause i was def. gonna eat em!....there will be weak moments..then there will be unbearable moments..then your toast!!..lori~~ think about what we are saying...i was only on vic's for 1 1/2 yrs..prior to that i functioned great at work, home etc....but WITH the pills i functioned even better...and who dosent want to feel THAT GOOD!...and like you, it was my secret...my hubby knows now, but while i was using, no one really knew..again your situation is different as you do have legimate pain...but addiction is addiction...it's bigger and stronger than all of us....unfortunatley!

[nymommy]

lori~~awesome!!

[Baby Steps]

Thanks NY... And honestly it was after I read your e-mail first that I called my friend. They weren't able to get me in to physical therapy until Jan 19th! ARGH! My Dr. wants me to continue on the meds due to the pain ( I am pinned together in the hip and pelvis from that tractor trailor) until I at least get the therapy started because he said he was afraid of what would happen between the C/T and the appt. that might not work. So he thinks I'm taking them. And my pain is not just bad... it's excruciating at times to a point of cripple. They tried to give me stronger meds than that like something called hdramorph something like that but I GOT SO SICK and refused to take it. Then they gave me some patch that almost killed me so I made them just give me what hadn't killed me and that was the hydrocodones. But I can't take this either. So I ask the Dr. if there was a type of shot I could take that wasn't narcotic because my friend with cancer takes something like that and he said he'd look into it. We'll see. I have to say, I've managed so far except for the traffic. Sitting in a car (even w/the heated seats don't help) for 3 hours each way in stop and go... has been quite painful but again, I've gotten through it to this point so I guess as we say... Baby Steps and a lot of PRAYER!

Thanks so much NY!! How was your day today?

[unclenasty93]

baby steps,

You are very welcome. I am so glad that what I said helped you. That is kind of how I am on this forum, honest, straight forward, assertive, and full of good old tough love You showed a lot of courage by giving them your pills, GOOD FOR YOU!! That is an act of someone who wants to be clean. I am always happy to help in any way, don't hesitate to call on me for anyting. Pleasure to meet you too. mike

[Baby Steps]

Thanks Uncle... That is why I came straight online when I got home. I knew I couldn't do it and I needed you and NY to remind me. However, flushing wasn't an option... I would never be able to do that with 120 pills LOL so they sat here until I remembered my friend who is on tons of meds as she has stage 4 cancer my pills are like sugar pills to her but I knew she knew what I was struggling with so I called her. I could've called anyone trust me I'm sure I could have made a good fortune somewhere for that much meds but No Way! I would never be a part of anyones hell!

I look forward to chatting with you too Mike! Peace and Thanks for the Tough Love!

Lori

[unclenasty93]

nymommy,

That's what is so dangerous about addiction, even after long stints without pills, like 3 months, it is there waiting and strong as ever. I'm glad you didn't take those pills, nicely done. mike.

[Baby Steps]

Yea NY... I'm with Mike!! Good Job!!! Uncle... does that craving really last forever? I don't know if I could live like that forever. Can I have some advice from you or anyone else that has any craving hints.

Thanks again and Peace to you too!

Lori

[gac]

as i have been through this myself all i can sugest is to reduce dosage over 2-3weeks,also see gp to try and get diazipam to help her relax and take her mind off things,also they will help her sleep bettert at night,but be carefull for how long she uses diazipam as the can be addictive so i sugest no longer than 2weeks,making sure she has plenty of the right fluids ie food supplement drinks.please dont take my word on this as everybody reacts different to medication.try and get her GP to put her on a DHC and DIAZIPAM DETOX REDUCEING EVERYDAY THEN GET PROFESSIONAL HELP WITH COUNCLEING TO SUCCSEED IN IDENTIFIYING HER NEED FOR HAVING TO TAKE THEM.ONCE AGAIAN IT IS ONLY A SUGESTION ,IT WORKED FOR ME WITH THE RIGHT CARE AND ALOT OF WILLPOWER TO CHANGE,BEST OF LUCK BUT TRY TAKE HER TO A GP FOR MORE ADVICE OK

[nymommy]

i know that i'll never be safe...and lori, i think it's a life-long struggle ( hope i'm wrong)...after 3 days w/o sub..i took 1/2 of pill today, because i was struggling way too much...i'm traveling soon and hoping my "jump" will be easier on a sandy beach!!

[Baby Steps]

OOOH NY I'm soo jealous! a SANDY BEACH???? Where are you going girl!? That will be a great place to relax! OMG Are you serious about the lifelong?? and qa: hello and who are you referring to? How are you?

NY: When are you leaving?

[tamara02]

Hello,Everyone!!!! Just 4 more days until Christmas, And I'll be doing it w/o the darn hydros,its not bothering me so much since I started on the sub almost 2 months ago,Its really nice not to have to use up your whole day looking for pills ,counting pills,spending tons of money on pills ,etc...the mental part is still hard,though... Well I just wanted to say Hello and Merry christmas!!!just in case I won't get a chance to see my computer for a few days.take care ,Tamm Lisa,Mort.where are you guys,i MISS yA'LL,HOPE ALL IS WELL,LOVE YA...

[Baby Steps]

Hello Tamm, nice to meet you! I have a question, even though your on the sub you still have the urge or thoughts? I thought that was suppose to take that away. I hope you enjoy your Christmas holiday and we'll see you when you get back. Me? I really wish I could fast forward through it this year. I haven't even put up a tree for the first time in my life! I almost wish I had done this earlier or later because it's gonna be hard to escape everyone this time of year! Argh. But I guess it's the price I have to pay. Anyway, take it easy and Have a Great Holiday!!!

Many blessings!

Lori

[unclenasty93]

baby stepper,

I had 2 years clean back in 2001 and 2002, and my cravings seemed to go away once I had been clean about 5 months. Now, they still came back once in a while, but it was NOTHING like it had been that first 5 or so months. During those first 3 or 4 months of sobriety, we are very fragile. We crave a lot and sometimes the cravings are fierce, we also think about the drugs all the time(obsession). The busier you can be during these first few months the better. Idol minds and boredom are not safe in early recovery. The good news is, it will leave you. One day you will find that you no longer think about drugs, obsess about drugs, crave drugs, etc... This is freedom. You are never cured of this disease, like cancer it only goes into remission, but if you are diligent and careful you can keep it in remission forever. So, do the cravings go away, never 100%, you will have cravings the rest of your life, they just will hardly ever come around once you have been clean for a while. The cravings also get weaker. The ones we have during the first few months of recovery are a SOB, the ones you may have after being clean for 5 years will be so mild and infrequent, they won't cause you any grief. see ya.

[Baby Steps]

Thanks so much Uncle for the info. Not exactly what I wanted to hear but at least I am better aware of what to expect and for that I Thank You and everyone on this board for your help and support through this VERY difficult time.

Day 7... Pray for me. I am feeling extremely nauseus today. And yes, cravings are overwhelming and I have to lead a company Christmas party today... Yikes. I'll let you know how it goes...

Have a Wonderful day all!!

Many Blessings,

Lori

[LISA GIRL]

Uncle Nasty (Mike) You snowed in??? I am so glad to have another day off work so I can prep for Christmas....and it's still snowing! ...at least over here in SE Denver/Aurora...

Tammy...I'm here! Just haven't posted as much lately....busy with work, Christmas, remodeling, etc...

Lori... Hang in there.... When I first started on the sub I had few cravings, but now at like 2 1/2 months, I am craving more than ever...not bad...kind of just like wanting a piece of cake...easy enough to say no, you just have to do it...and Mike is right...staying busy helps and they (the cravings) are fleeting....I just hope they do become more infrequent as time goes on.

I hope everyone has a pain and craving free day... I need to get my ass out of bed and get some work done!...We are having a giant blizzard here in Colorado and everything is closed, tons of people stranded at the airport, it's a mess!

[sparky]

Yeh, Lisa you picked up on that one....I did get the vikes, knowing I had the sub to start again....to tell you the truth it hasn't been anything special...in fact its made me more agitated and just pretty sick of the whole addict in me....so actually i will run out of vikes today and will start sub soon there after....when I say Jan 2 as a goal to really get back on track to healthiness and my life...after all this holiday hussle....celebrating...I want to quit alchohol as well.....and honesly once off opiads I wonder how I will get back my sleep pattern naturally.....this has all become such a chore...people are growing bored of this "same old" bull.....gosh I just gotta look at the good in my life ....being grateful for all the positives that are so being clouded out by this pain in the butt addiction......I wish you all the courage needed to get past your addcition too....

[sparky]

hi again....some are talking about sub and cravings...I think the sub does take away the physical cravings....because I never have had the awful w/d feeling of craving my next vike...but I don't think the sub works on the mental which really is the hardest to beat...my mind ...does a number on me and says the vikes will help this or that...the addiction lying to me once again....its like I keep searching for this unattainable happiness...which will never be found in a bottle of vikes.....its like I avoid the work that really needs to be done on my spirit and self worth as a person....just don't understand why I can't just be a content person in life....God..where is that humble, graceful person I want to be......the stresses of life just take over........thanks for listening

[LISA GIRL]

Sparky... I think it is wise of you to wait til after the holidays to quit again. I know that there is always an excuse...always something coming up.... and people told me that too....so I set a date.. here on this board...actually Tinkers had me commit to it ... I set it a few weeks off so I could party like a rockstar til that date..lol...well you know, you were here... I still didn't feel like I was really ready but since I had put a date on the board, I felt commited. The mental addiction is very hard. I kind of naturally have weaned my sub down to 1 2mg pill per day....but it's kind of like having a guy break up with you...someone you really cared about and knowing you can't have them anymore...you just feel kind of sad and lost...personally I am in no rush to get off the sub. I will not feel empowered or if I have "won" if I get down to zero opiates..from where I am now..... Right now my life is in control, I am not spending tens of thousands of dollars on getting high (actually I am not GETTING high) , and I am getting things done I have been putting off for years...I have freedom....and that is good enough for me.

Take it one day at a time Sparky and for God's sakes, stop putting sooo much pressure on yourself.. you did that the first time around... you are only human....and if you need to stay on the sub a little longer to prevent a relapse so be it! You don't need to be superwoman!! Sometimes we all need a little help..hope you are not beating yourself up.. you will get there...We are all wishing you the best!

[Tom OC]

As a noobie, I have a question. I have 6 fractured vertabrae, and a bunch of herniated disks in my back. For the last 6 years, I have taken 120 mg (40X3) of Oxycontin/day. I finally got enough physical therapy to where I can deal with the back pain, so I started withdrawing from the OC, over a period of 1 month. Then I asked my doctor for a less potent narcotic (Hycrodone-60mg/day). One more month and if was down to 1 pill in the morning. During the whole time I had mild withdrawl symptoms, but nothing off the wall.

When I stopped taking the last pill (10 mg hydrocodone), the sh** hit the fan. I have all the symptoms of stage 4 narcotic withdrawl. I don't get it, because for the last week I was only takin 1 tablet, in the morning. By noon, I would have metabolized it, leaving no opiate in my system. Is this just psyco-somatic? It sure feels real.

[nymommy]

~~lisa you are soo right..do not pressure yourself sparky..i've been struggling too..in my head i'm like..oh, i gotta get off this sub..i gotta do it by such and such etc...so i stopped for 3 days, well not good!!!..i held 2 vic's in my hand, and was gonna cave..no doubt...so instead i started back on a 1/2 a pill again...your right, when you say the sub dosent help the mental part ( in the beginning it does)...so now it's up to us...i'm guessing it's gonna be hard..i'm not good w/ struggling...but i'm worse at being a liar..addict and all that goes w/ the pills...for the 20 mins of euphoria, i'm not sure it's worth it...stay strong...

[gr8ful1]

I just discovered this Site by Googling "Ultram - Tramadol" and here I am.
I was hooked on Vicodin, Lorcet, Percocet and Klonopin - I was taking about 70-80 painkillers per day.
I ended up coming off "Cold Turkey" in jail (you don't think I could take that many without doing something illegal do you?)
SLEEP, or rather lack of it, was a major problem. I hate to discourage anyone, but coming off that stuff isn't pretty.
Coming off benzo's and opiates with no medical help at all, was hell.
I felt weak, tired, but sleep never came. I don't know if this is posible, but I don't think I had one minute of sleep for 3 weeks.
Looking back on it, being in jail was a good thing. I was a walking zombie and couldn't have done anything on the outside anyway.
The jail doctor gave me clonodene (spelling ?) which I think was supposed to keep me from having a heart attack.
Not hungry - no sleep - weak. I could only stand up for short moments at a time.

I stayed in that Jail from October to February 1997-98. Even after all that time I still couldn't sleep through a whole night. I got some strength back and began to WANT to eat by then, but the sleep -
that was the last to come back. It [u]</u>DOES[u]</u> come eventually. It just takes that terrible four letter word: [u]TIME</u>

Now, back to the reason I was looking for Ultram. I'm hooked on that now! Ever since medication can be purchased "on-line" it is easier to get. I was told by the doctor it wasn't addicting - Bull! I find that most doctors seem to know little or nothing about addicts or addictions.
I want to "taper off" but I know me too well, I've never tapered off of anything. What kind of withdrawel am I looking at. I know it really isn't an Opiate, just acts like one. I'm taking about 20 per day - coming off couldn't be as bad as the "real" opiates, could it?

I work from home, so I don't have to try and look good - thank God.
I know this was a topic a while back in this forum, but I just thought I would throw this into the ring and see who responds. I can really identify with Sparky and Doggy's friend. I just don't think there is an easy way to come off of this stuff!








I can only live in this moment - One Day At A Time

[unclenasty93]

gr8ful,

what's up? Ya, jail is an awful place. I have never been there for as long of a time as you were, but I have been there on 2 different occasions in horrible withdrawl. Both times I was bonded out and when I got home and got those opiates in me the relief was like nothing I have ever felt before. What a terrible place to put human beings! I can't tolerate the fact that addicts are put in jail and treated like criminals. Typically the only type of crime we have committed is trying to obtain pills. This society needs to learn something about this disease and realize that addicts need TREATMENT not punishment. I am very passionate about this topic and can go off on quite a tangent, so I'll stop. You said it right, though, doctors don't know DICK about addictions! OK, to answer your question about ultram... I have never withdrawn from it, but the staff at a detox I was at a few years back said it was very rough to come off of. It isn't an opiate but it binds to opiate receptors just like they do. It is very similar and therefor causes the same miserable wd's. I actually can't believe that it isn't even a controlled sub. I enjoy the high it produces, it is a little different but nice. Anyway, that would be my guess, you can probably expect the same wd's as the opiates. peace. mike

[gr8ful1]

I just have to write one more time.....

I've just been reading through this forum. It's better than an NA meeting.

I'm just like, or have been through, or done, everything I'm reading!
Fear and anxiety if the Doctor doesn't call in my Vicodin refill or making up stories to get a refill before it's due. People who can't sleep (through all the W/D, that is the one thing I hated the most). I eventually figured how to get a clean copy of a 'script', made unlimited copies and just wrote my own perscriptions under all different names (thus the jail time). Couldn't do that today. Jersey went to special paper that has embedded graphics that can't be copied.
I think maybe the whole country did.

My wife of 25 years just died of Lung Cancer this past Memorial Day.
She smoked for 40 years - why was I surprised? I sold the house in New Jersey and moved to an apartment in Pennsylvania (for some God awful reason - figured it would be cheaper than Jersey). Now,living alone for the first Christmas and New Year without her.(I've spent many holidays alone in my life and it didn't bother me - but this one's different) The Ultram/Tramadol actually does dull some of my pain/grief. She knew what I was doing (pills)and was not very happy about it. She didn't lecture me or go after me to quit but it was never mentioned and if it was - It was again pointed out that she still didn't approve.

I've ranted long enough - I'll keep reading this forum everyday - I certainly am not unique.


*** Always Put Off Until Tomorrow What You Shouldn't Do At All ***

[gr8ful1]

Thanks unclenasty93 for the encoragment .
I kinda thought that would be the case.



*** Always Put Off Until Tomorrow What You Shouldn't Do At All ***

[beerbaron2002]

ya acutally i just with through going cold turkey from 160 mg of oxycontin a day, plus 22.5mg hydocondons, i had been doing this straight for a little over a year. i stopped 2 weeks ago, the withdrawals were really bad, but from what you have said it doesnt seem like she is that far into it, plus they are only hydros, so she is certainly gonna be better off than i was. what i faound out that works really well with withdrawals and going cold turkey is to basically suck it up for the first three days, it sucks trust me i know, i was vomiting uncontrolably the whole time. but its only 3 days just keep telling your friend that. i personally think that treatment is a waste of time, if you do it alone you have a lot more will power than most people. anyways after three days she should be fine, see it all depends on how much and how long. i have withdrawn from vicodin tons of times, and it would only last 3 days MAX, the OC's were a whole different world, much worse. but after 3 days if she still doesnt feel normal, basically what i did was go out and party for a week straight or so. i know im gonna get a lot of flak for saying that, but it takes your mind off the withdrawals, and getting completly blasted lets you actually sleep, so go out get drunk and have fun, its only temporary. the drinking is because she is gonna be depressed so i hope shes not suicidal, but the depression part is after the 3 days and can last a long time, so keep her busy and dont let her run back to her ex or something stupid like that. IT SUCKS BUT ITS ONLY TEMPORARY

[gr8ful1]

beerbaron2002

I wish I knew how to detox myself from a year of Vicodin and feel better in 3 days.
How long was/is your detox from Oxycontin?

I would pay a fortune if I could withdraw from opiates in 3 days!


*** Always Put Off Until Tomorrow What You Shouldn't Do At All ***

[unclenasty93]

beerbaron,

who is the "she" you are referencing to in your post??

Also, you talk about "willpower", one thing people don't realize is that willpower does not work when dealing with a disease. Telling an addict to not use and just have some willpower is like telling a diabetic that instead of using their insulin they just need to have some willpower. Diseases need treatment, willpower does not apply.

You are right about the 3 day rule. It does seem that withdrawing from most opiates is only real terrible for about 3 days. Be careful, though, the post acute wd's can hang around a couple weeks and those can be unpleasent and cause relapse. peace. mike.