[nymommy]

island girl~glad you have a plan..get imodium seems it is key..and of course any valium/xanax, also key...sleepin thru it will definitly give you a great head start..keep us posted

[morticia]

Island girl~ good for you keep up your faith, best of luck to you and the Thomas recipe...and im also thrilled to hear that you will be going to NA thats really a great descion im in NA next week ill be celebrating my 60 day i get a keychain you will be so welcomed there make sure you get numbers from the other girls and hopefully a sponsor im still in the myst of finding a sponsor for myself but i still go to meetings and i dial my numbers Dial them dont File them.
work the steps they really do work.
let us know how you make out keep us posted
you should be very proud of yourself i know i am proud of you



Clean Date:10/16/06

Just For Today

Luv N Hugs,
Clarkie

[morticia]

Tinkers~ how are you feeling? how's your back? is the chiro helping? i hope your ok let us know how your doing. keep us posted


Clean Date:10/16/06

Just For Today

Luv N Hugs,
Clarkie

[tinkers]

Mort

Thanks for asking the pain is sever to the point wear i can hardly walk and yet im still at work im on the phone with my doc right now as for the chiro went once and today at 4pm dident do anything yet I cant take it much more im going to crack.

[sparky]

tinkers......praying that you find relief...without effecting your recovery....stay strong and persistant with the docs so they give you solutions to ease your back pain issues without resorting to meds....thats how it started for me..... my willingness to use meds rather than search out the healthy ways...excercise...strengthening core muscles...massage...hot/cold packs, stretching.... when I was in the middle of my addiction I never thought that these remedies could actually help....another thought...I know there are pros and cons about cortizone trigger shots...but they do take the pain away...best to you

[tinkers]

Sparky

Thanks for the words I have been trying many things for the last week and none of them are working I have been on sub science april and if I had pain pills today I would use them I cant tie my shoes I cant remember a pain level this high for this long and science Im allergic to asprin, naproxin and ibuprophen it makes it very hard to deal I just hope that the chiro helps tonight or I will be in the er tomorrow I cant think straight Im going to loose my mind very soon anyway thanks is nice to hear from others in my shoes.

[morticia]

Tinkers~ so sorry to hear that your ready to crack[|)] maybe you can consider a muscle relaxer? its it your spine or the muscle or nerve, if its the nerve they have this med called Lyrica its designed for ppl that have diabetic nerve pain, i tried it put it kinda "messed with my head meds a bit" but its suppose to be a great med for nerve pain and its not a narcotic also Cymbalta is good for nerve pain, and nueronton. but those meds are for nerve pain, if its muscle there are a lot of muscule relaxers out there like Flexeral, Zanaflex, Soma, Roboxin, Norflex and a bunch of others i cant think of right now but they are all non narcotic the only thing with Soma is that its like a babituate in it. my doc is against Soma cuz its addcting, thats what he said but ive been on Soma before and i didnt find it real addciting.

Well i hope that helps a little i hate to see a person in pain that cant take anything for it but theres some alternitives, let us know how you are doing, keep us posted


Clean Date:10/16/06

Just For Today

Luv N Hugs,
Clarkie

[sparky]

tinkers..I am real sorry for your pain..I do hope the chiro can help

[Jonesing]

I started out on Soma's, before I went to the hard stuff. I liked the sleepy buzz they gave me. I could take them or leave them, without any problems. A friend of mine who would split the cost of a script with me got addicted pretty bad though. He went through about a week of withdrawals, but they were not as bad as opiate withdrawal. He had trouble sleeping, cravings, upset stomach and mild leg pains. He recovered fairly quick, but don't mention a Soma around him ! He hates 'em now. I thought about trying one for sleep, but no sense in chancing another addiction ! [8D]

J.

[LISA GIRL]

Tinkers...it seems like life is constantly throwing you curve balls. I am sorry for yet another threat to your recovery. However, we all know there is a legitimate place for pain pills and this may be one of them. It is difficult for any of us to say what we would do in your situation but no one would fault you if you do decide to dose for your pain. Don't think of it as "caving." I am not trying to encourage you....just know that you will not be a failure if you need to have a slight interruption in your abstinance...I will be praying for you!!

[tinkers]

All;

Thanks for the replies I did go to the chrio tonight and it did seem to help right now will see what tomorrow has for me. As for the pain I have 3 bad disc and I think it is all the above as for muscle relaxer I have some thing called zanaflex it dont work and I have tryed all the others I think that I have some soma some wear not sure will see what happens I hope I can make it I have had quite a few curve balls my way like lisa said but this is the worst by far I dident hurt this bad when I was in w/d thank for thinking of me.

ROB

[morticia]

Tinkers~how are you feeling today? hope your feeling a little bit better. I know muscle realaxers dont usually work for hernated disc pain, i know i have a hernated disc myself and it agravates my syatica nerve, i know your probably fighting wondering in your situation whether or not to be treated with pain meds, sometimes curve balls come up and we need them for a ligit reason, in your case i know you really dont want to give up your sobreity but maybe for your sake maybe consider pain meds just for now until your back feels better im not saying have a big party night with them and by all means im not wanting to tempt you but in certain cases pain meds are needed. and you wouldnt be a FAILUE not in anyones eyes on this board believe me you have been an inpiration to a lot of ppl on this forum , me included, but you cant go around in excusating pain either, then once the pain is subsited you can get off them and get back on the sub , have your wife hold the bottle and let her give them to you when you need them that way your not tempted to take more than prescribed, this is just a little advice i know what your pain is like it sucks its excusating, i know when i was clean for about a month i got in a car acceenent and i had to go back on pills cuz of my chest wall and for my back, i wasnt happy at all but i knew i needed them for a ligit reason. but unforunalty for me it got so out of hand that i overdid it and didnt give the bottle to my hubby like i was suppose too and then just added fuel to the fire, and i wound up in detox but i see that as a lesson to me i wouldnt be where i am today if that didnt happen . Everything happens for a reason i believe. but im not saying that will be your case im just giving you an examlpe.

your in my prayers i hope you feel better soon and what ever you decide im in your corner
let us know how your doing keep us posted
[:I]


Clean Date:10/16/06

Just For Today

Luv N Hugs,
Clarkie

[LISA GIRL]

Hey guys! STRESSSSSSSSSSSSED OUT TODAY! It's the whole holiday thing and I'm redecorating which is stressful and expensive... mostly messy. Today I took an ativan...I told my sub doc yesterday I had been under some stress lately and he prescribed me these. I don't know very much about them other than they are some type of anti anxiety med. Well I took one today...they are just 1 mg.... I don't know what I was expecting... I guess I know what I was "hoping" for. I guess I was hoping that I would get that familiar feeling of my yellow friends but that it would be "ok" or "approved" or something b/c it was prescribed by my doctor. I guess I was hoping it was ok b/c it wasn't a percocet or an opiate for that matter. Well it didn't do anything for me.. I am not sure it reduced my stress or anxiety... I feel disappointed in myself because I feel disappointed that it didn't give me any high. I have the pills here (percs) but won't take them. I know my resolve is strong for now...but it seems like I am obsessing over something "missing" in me... like my brain is hungry for pills...so...here is my question..

#1...Who knows something about ativan or the like? Am I ok to take these with my ambien?

#2...Do you think I need to up my sub level? I am currently taking 4 mg per day....sometimes 6 but mostly 4...I hate to go backwards but I seem to be obsessing over the pain meds lately...seems like I am taking pills, any kind, anything BUT percocet or opiates, trying to find an legitimate, acceptable way to get the same feeling..

Also shout out to Tinkers and Morticia! Pretty quiet around here today ... Hope you are feeling better today Tinkers...We are all thinking and pulling for you. !

[morticia]

hey ya Lisa~ ive been on ativan, its a anti anxiety drug you probbably wont get "high" from it cuz its only one mg i was on 2 mgs of ativan and i was done for i was so out of it , ativan xanax klonpin and valium benzos in gerneral if i recall work on a differnt part of the brain then opitates do, Im so sorry you feel stresed i know how you feel this is our first holiday without pills and it can be rough stay stronge, Lisa i know you can do it i believe in you.
With the ativan though your not really suppose to "feel it" its just designed to take the anixety away. I'm on 4 mgs of Klonpin for anixety , i take 2 mgs in the morning and 2 mgs at night and i dont even know that im on a benzo, i have an anixety d/o. and it helps a great deal. but be careful with the ativan cuz with any benzo it is addciting, and i wouldnt want to see you get addicied to another med. as far as combinmding the 2 (sub) i dont know about that because im not on sub but if your doc prescribe it i dont see any reason that it would effect your sub. When i went to detox they said i had to come off my klonopin because klonpin is highly addictive but i explained to them that i dont abuse it and that i needed to be on it , still they didnt believe me so they weaned me off that too and gave me valium instead go figure, i tell you one thing though benzo w/d sucks i was one Xanax XR before i was on klonpin and i ran out early ill tell ya the w/d was horendous i was hallucinating jumpy, anixous, the digital time on my pc ,everytime it would change i would jump 10 feet off my chair the w/d is scary, im not saying this to scare you i just want to let you know that benzo's w/d is bad and i wanted to share my expericence with you , they took me off the Xanax XR cuz it was 450.00 dollars and medicare part D doesnt pay for any benzos so klonopin was the cheapest out of all of them so thats my story on benzos. I know im addicted to it but at the same time i need it because my anixety is high i get nervous about everything i have servere panic attacks and it doesnt get me high.

Maybe now is a good time to check out NA it would be a benefit bcause you are stressed and the holidays are the worst time for ppl in recovery from what i heard so you may want to check it out, go to a meeting i'll bet you will feel better knowing theres ppl that are like us. I feel the same way you do hun, your not alone the holidays are a very stressful time but i know we can stay stronge and not reach for our "little demons" .
Lisa, im proud of you that you didnt take any perks despite the stress you did a good thing and went to your doc and told him that you were feeling overwheled. Thats a good thing. If you need any other info about ativan let me know i do know alot about benzos and if i can be of any help to you, so you dont take a perk email me or messenger me or ill check back in a while to see if you posted.
Remember im here for you, anytime

Stay Stronge you can beat this


Clean Date:10/16/06

Just For Today

Luv N Hugs,
Clarkie

[LISA GIRL]

Thanks Morticia. I am proud of my self for not taking the percs but wonder how much progress I have made if I am trying to take other things to give me that same feeling? The NA thing now is a catch 22.. yes it would probably help to some degree, to realize others are in my same position, but then I am SO busy that I would be stressing about the time away from the things I need to do that it might be worse!

I will watch it on the ativan if it is addicting. I didn't notice any decreased level in my stress. Is stress different than anxiety in medical terms I wonder?

[nymommy]

~~~~~~~~~hey lisa. long time...do not up your sub dose ..i, like you am having that feeling of "want" i think we always will..it's what some might call the new "normal"..it passes it comes, i guess much like an alcoholic..we have to learn to live/deal w/ it....and WE will!..some days are worse than others...givin the time of year, i'm guessing these are the worse...mnf!

[adamshive]

Hello everyone, my name is Adam. I'm 25 and I've been either addicted/dependant on/or maybe not addicted and just using successfully the drug Tramadol for about 2 years. The worst of this "addiction" has been the last 6 months. I've been trying to get off of it, yet in no way do I have an addictive personality. In fact, I smoked cigarettes at my leisure, on and off for 10 years. Now, you may say that 10 years of smoking is an addiction, but I NEVER ONCE had any sort of craving for a cigarette, and could go weeks or months without one. It was basically a social thing that I'd only do at diners or bars. My whole family is alcoholics, and yes I've had a few drinks in my time, but am in no way addicted to it, and in fact I detest the taste of and feeling of being on alcohol and vow to never even drink it again. I smoked pot in high school a few times and had incredible adverse psychological reactions to it, never acheiving any sense of well being on it, just felt horrible "trips". I've been put on various anti-depressants, anti-anxiety and bipolar pills, and even steroid for depersonalization disorder. None of which had any affect on me WHATSOEVER.
This brings me to the Tramadol (ultram, ultracet, etc.) . This is the only pill (other than ephedra) that I've ever noticed any positive affect on me. IT WORKS AS AN ANTI-DEPRESSANT! I see no reason to get off the pill, as I don't take an ungodlly amount, maybe about 10-12 pills a day. The problem is when I run out. My legs get so restless when i sleep, that I've almost broken several toes when I kick the wall next to my bed, all while sleep. If I'm going through the withdrawl, I usually wake up at 3AM with bloodied toenails, and bruised elbows from kicking and elbowing the wall. (duh move your bed, you idiot. You're thinking). I don't think that I'm totally "addicted" to Tramadol, because it's honestly worked as an anti-depressant, and I've really been able to get my life together on this medication. So, although I do fear becoming a true true addict to this medication, I'm carefully watching and balancing my dosage. The withdrawl is tough, and is the ONLY thing that makes me feel as though I could be an addict. I can go for about a day or two without taking any pills until the withdrawl kicks in.

I have two herniated discs in my back and the medication not only helps with my depression, but also helps me deal with the pain. This has given me the ability to get a good job and keep it, so for that I'm thankful for this pill.

I find that some relaxers like diazepam, or xanax may work to calm the legs and symptons of withdraw. Honestly, maybe even a glass of wine, or a beer (remember, i hate alcohol) can calm the nerves a little. But please, umm...don't become an alcoholic because of me... Also, over the counter pills like Tylenol PM can help to calm the nerves, as well as herbs like Valerian root or chammomile. Actually, some people who are sensitive enough to valerian say it's stronger than any prescription sleeping pill on the market.

I'm happy that this site exhists, and as for anyone going through withdrawl, you're not alone.

Find someone who can help you. I was petrified to tell my fiance that I use these pills. I was so afraid the she'd leave me and call me a drug addict. But instead, she is more than understanding and helpful. I'm going to keep a very close eye on my dosage and usage, and my fiance is very well aware of how to help me. Her grandmother was very addicted to all sorts of pills. She'd clear out the medicine cabinet of any of her friend's houses whenever she'd visit. She's dead now. The grandmother, that is, not my fiance...


So, to anyone who needs help, I offer myself for support. Feel free to e-mail me. I'll even give you my phone number if you want to talk. The hardest withdraw is withdraw by yourself. Let's team up against the drug companies, and support each other.

If anyone would like to chat, my email is adamshive@hotmail.com and my AIM screenname is Adamhasamullet. No, I don't actually have a mullet.

Goodday everyone
-Adam

[abey042000]

I have to.........ROFLMFAO.

Mort, u truely are one of a kind. I've just sat here reading your posts. You have absolutely no clue about m'done espec. mixing them with benzo's. Your gonna end up killing yourself. Would u please do more research on it. Obviously, your doctor has totally misinformed you.

Nancy,
Do u honestly believe that u are pill-free? That your clean? Just because its not your drug of choice YET doesnt mean your clean. I understand that u have pain....but I read you telling other ppl to find alternatives to pain management, why dont you? These posts amaze me. I figured B-4 u were just being "innocent" to m'done. Now ur totally being hypocritical.

I truly hope u come around and when u decide to....email me. U know how! This is giving u false pride. C'mon now!

[balance]

whats up guys

I am trying to quit oc's after almost a year of use, i quit last sunday and decided to give in and do about 30 mgs of OC, last night, do you think that this means im really bad, or do i still have a hope for giving these things up, without outside help?

thanks

[gqblu]

balance...if you can quit for a week, then you should be able to quit forever. Just takes commitment and helps to have a support structure around you. Don't stress it. I would just take an inventory of you rlife, decide when you want to quit and do it. If I could, so can you.

[gqblu]

Lisa Girl,

As you stated, please take great care with Ativan or any other benzodiazepine (klonopin, xanax, valium, halcion, temazapam etc). Physical addiction to benzos occurs after two or three weeks of continual use. W/D symptoms can be as debilitating as opiate w/d but can last for a period of years. While it may feel as though the Ativan is doing nothing, with continual use it can start to change a person's brain chemistry. When the benzo is withdrawn, it can take the brain an exceedingly long time to find equillibrium again.

The key is to not use it for an extended (greater than two week) period of time. Please be careful.

[LISA GIRL]

quote:Originally posted by abey042000

I have to.........ROFLMFAO.

Mort, u truely are one of a kind. I've just sat here reading your posts. You have absolutely no clue about m'done espec. mixing them with benzo's. Your gonna end up killing yourself. Would u please do more research on it. Obviously, your doctor has totally misinformed you.

Nancy,
Do u honestly believe that u are pill-free? That your clean? Just because its not your drug of choice YET doesnt mean your clean. I understand that u have pain....but I read you telling other ppl to find alternatives to pain management, why dont you? These posts amaze me. I figured B-4 u were just being "innocent" to m'done. Now ur totally being hypocritical.

I truly hope u come around and when u decide to....email me. U know how! This is giving u false pride. C'mon now!

No Abey you don't "HAVE to." Why are you so obsessed with Morticia? Is she getting too much attention here? Too much.. what was it "false pride?" YOU are too much.. Why would you say she is going to kill herself but preface the e mail with ROFLMFAO?? Do you think that is funny? You are obviously insecure, attention starved and jealous of Morticia's progress. We have asked you nicely here to please move on. Once again (obviously you didn't get it the first 5 or so times you have been told) this is a thread of support and encouragement. Please go elsewhere. No one is interested in what you have to say.. .which is nothing....except to continually bash on Morticia. Come back when/if you can play nice although I doubt it is in your character.. I have seen your other attempts to start **** in this forum. See ya.. what's that about not letting the back door...???


P.S. Once AGAIN apologies the members here. Perhaps I shouldn't even dignify her posts with a response but I hate seeing someone who has worked so hard to support people here get treated this way.

[LISA GIRL]

quote:Originally posted by gqblu

Lisa Girl,

As you stated, please take great care with Ativan or any other benzodiazepine (klonopin, xanax, valium, halcion, temazapam etc). Physical addiction to benzos occurs after two or three weeks of continual use. W/D symptoms can be as debilitating as opiate w/d but can last for a period of years. While it may feel as though the Ativan is doing nothing, with continual use it can start to change a person's brain chemistry. When the benzo is withdrawn, it can take the brain an exceedingly long time to find equillibrium again.

The key is to not use it for an extended (greater than two week) period of time. Please be careful.

Ggblu... Thanks for the heads up.!!! I think I might be better to avoid it all together. My sub doctor seems very script happy if you know what I mean. I appreciate it with the ambien (my primary doc was not keen on prescribing me ambien) but I fear he is not taking into account my addictive nature.. which is odd as that is the very purpose of my visits. When you say addiction can start with 2-3 weeks of continual use do you mean daily use? If I were to use say, twice per week I would be ok? And again, I am trying to determine if there is a medical distinction between stress and anxiety. I am not sure I have anxiety per se...I just feel extremely stressed sometimes..Thanks again for your reply...

[abey042000]

Lisa~

For one...I have never been here to start ****. Actually i am indeed in contact with many members from this forum. Infact, we have encouraged, and supported each other thru thick and thin.

The reason I keep posting is because I feel people are being misinformed about the uses/treatment and long-term effects of m'done. I'm sure their are alot of people lurking, and what their reading here is false. Also, I cared for Morticia, and she knows that...knowing and having talked with many people that UN-fortunately got dealt the blow of M'done, I dont wish it on my worst enemy. In all honesty, I am VERY worried about YOU, Mort.

Anyways,
I will now leave it at that.

Respectively,
~Abey~

[arlenewla]

quote:Originally posted by LISA GIRL

No one is interested in what you have to say.. who has worked so hard to support people here get treated this way.

Actually, I'm interested in what Abey has to say...because frankly, she said it very well.

She pointed out that one is not clean on Sub or Methadone. One can be abstaining from their DOC on Sub or Methadone, but they are not clean. They are still on an opioid. Fact.

She also, kindly, pointed out that one can literally kill themselves by mixing Methadone and benzo's. Fact.

I would humbly suggest that if one needs time to transistion from their DOC to an opioid such as Sub or Methadone, they do it very carefully and be highly aware that the longer you stay on either, the more difficult...highly difficult...it is to get off.

If you think painkillers were a b*tch to get off of, you ain't seen nothing yet. The duration of WD and PAWS from either of these substitute opioids goes on for months, and months, and months, and months. Fact.

Frankly, my teeth ache when I see someone post a *clean* date while on Methadone or Sub.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but there is huge difference between abstaining from one's DOC while on a an artificial opioid and being clean & sober...as in abstinent from all opioids and other mood altering drugs. Fact.

Sub & MMT are bandaids. Effective for a bit. But when you try to pull them off, you'll find there is still a wound underneath. The wound that remains are the same issues that brought us into active addiction in the first place.

So, while you may be able to live in fantasy, you can't bull-sh*t an old bull-sh*tter. Been there, done that myself. No longer live in my own bull-sh*t.



Arlene F.
Exodus from MMT; 12/25/02
There is no easier, softer way; if nothing changes, nothing changes

[morticia]

hi ya Lisa~ I see what you posted earlier, thank you on my behalf, she needs to geta life and move on obviuosly, she is very insecure, hateful, and jealous why would i even bother with April anyway, to all those who have to read Aprils (abeys) comments, i apologize.

Lisa~ how are you doing with the ativan? like ggblu said you should only be on it for a little while that way you dont get hooked on it. but it does have its benefits too, as you were asking last night about whether stress and anixety, are the same? well, stress can lead to anixiety and anixiety can cause stress so the same no, catch 22 yes, its an endless cycle, but im sure once the holidays are over you will feel better i always do, remember that this forum is about ppl with addiction,support encouargement and is filled with all sorts of differnt personalities. This is the hardest most stressful time for all of us in recovery so we all have to be a big support to each other and not judge each other, but support each other. and ill be the first to admit im an addict and always will be, but i will be a recovery addcit, hey guys i celebrate my 60 days this week at NA!
im so happy with life! Special thanks go to all my friends here who have supported me through my addiction, i couldnt have it without yas, all of you know who you are, so a BIG thank you


Tinkers~ hang in there i'll be praying and pulling for ya, how are you doing? hope your feeling better today keep us posted.
[:I]




Clean Date:10/16/06

Just For Today

Luv N Hugs,
Clarkie

[abey042000]

Welcome to the board Arlenewla~

I dont know how long u have been reading posts here, but I'm glad u chimed in when u did. Finally someone who knows first hand what I've been trying to get across here. Obviously, most people have been misled regarding this opiate. Maybe u could share some of your intelligence with these people. I just can't get over how someone can pronounce themselves as clean and attend NA when that's not the case at all. Isn't this misleading/hypocritical while attending?

Wow, me jealous of Mortica? Not the least bit. I would never step a foot in your (Mort) shoes. I dont care how much pain I am in, espec. if I'm wanting to get clean of my DOC. WHY, would u start an opiate thats stronger then the last DOC.

Mort, I just hope u can research, or use these posts to educate urself espec. using benzo's with it. Their have been many ppl die from the combination. U can continue to us any excuse here, but the facts still remain.

Respectively,

[nymommy]

abbey...will you really please leave it at that??? you bring such a negative energy here....sub..meth we are all just discussing options..and looking for support..which you clearly have none too offer...bye bye now...

[nymommy]

abbey..you posted you were 90 days clean...how did you do it??? cause that must be the RIGHT way.....tell us again

[LISA GIRL]

Arlene and Abey.. .. I appreciate your post and yes any information related to the dangers of methadone and/or benzos or a combination thereof are welcomed. The problem I have with Abey's posts (or should I say YOUR post Abey as not to speak of you in the 3rd person on a public board) is the tone in which they are displayed i.e., lots of sarcasm, judgment, etc...There is no detection of sincere concern for her welfare. I do believe that for the lurker, knowledge is key. However to continue to rant about how she is not really clean and only fooling herself etc etc is not helpful information for anyone. Asking if she has told her NA group that she is on methadone is not meant to help any lurker but rather to make her feel poorly about herself.


I personally do not consider myself clean. I consider myself clean from percocet which was my aim. When it is time for me to taper from my transitional drug suboxone, I will do so not expecting for it to be easy...For now I do appreciate that I am taking something that is not getting me high. The battle that my mind has with these drugs is much harder than the one my body will have. To that end, I do consider myself a success albeit not "clean." I guess I just cannot understand why one would devote so much time to try to take a little bit of pride stemming from that success to another.

Anyway, all of this drama pales in comparison to very serious issues of other addicts here... TINKERS.. please let us know how you are doing...We are thinking and praying for you!

Sparky... How is the suboxone treating you this time around... have you noticed any difference in your physical reactions or mental outlook?

Arlenewla...I have seen vague reference to PAWS in other threads. Could you provide some explanation as to what that is? I am sincerely interested. I read just a small bit about it early in my program but don't remember much about it. Thanks.


Everyone...Have a pain and craving free night. Love you guys and gals!