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The reason I am posting is for some advice really. I read through this forum quite often and a lot of people here have a lot of experience/advice to offer. My boyfriend is trying desperately to wean himself off of oxy's. His whole addiction started about 1-2 years ago with percocets, then oxys and then fentanyl patches (2 patches on at the same time)...he has finally made the decision that he wants to quit and has weaned himself back down to 1.75pils/day of oxy 30s from two fentanyl patches...the problem is, everytime he has tried to cut from this dose for some reason, his withdrawal symptoms are the worse he's had yet, even with just taking it down to 1.5 or 1.25pills/day...so far he's been at this dose for about 2-3 weeks...part of him is very scared to let the withdrawal symptoms get out of hand too, but he has no health insurance, despite having a steady full time job, to see a doctor for all the anti-anxiety/sleep meds. The same reason has kept him away from suboxone treatments also (along the horror stories associated with doctors not following the correct taper program or induction schedule). Has anyone been in a similar situation, at the same level of detox required here, that can offer advice on what they did to fight off the withdrawal including anxiety and depression? I know everyone's withdrawal symptoms are different, but maybe if there is someone out there who has a similar history to this can let me know how they dealt...thanks everyone
He has come a long way! He should be proud. I dt off fent patches high dose.......I'm really impressed.
What I don't know is why this is so difficult for him now. How long has he been tapering?
Just wondering what is still in his system.
I'll wait til I hear back, in the meantime someone else may know exactly what's happening here.
he has been tapering since the second week on february...actually probably even since before that because he came down off the patches by valentine's day, but he was still on high dose oxys...so i would have to say for pills since valentines day and that was about 6-8 oxy 30s a day and since maybe january for patches...
I am currently weaning myself off of morphine 300Mg a day and i have gone from that amount around March 25th to 15mg a day as i sit and type this.
This is the second time i have gotten off pills after getting injured badly and having shrapnel in my back etc, pain pills will probably plague me for life. If he is on patches im guessing he is a pain mngtmnt program or has some sort of medical issues. if this is the case, he is going to have to realize that he MUST get control of this or it will own him.
He has to MAKE himself taper with a preplanned schedule, some Xanax, and a lot of "toughen up" that MUST come from him. Its either that or cold turkey, which will get his levels WAY down WAY quick. Its gonna hurt mo matter what, he can either take small doses of the sick, or take it like a train to the face. In teh last month of my drop i had 3 BAD nights, (that paled in comparison to when i went cold turkey the first time)---i took 1mg of Xanax, Smoked some MEDICAL weed, and when i laid down i took half an ambein, my gf said i was shaking all night and i remember being not happy and pretty miserable but it was SO much better than being FULLY aware and FULLY feeling EVERY shake and bad thought.
But Rome wasnt built in a day and tapering is the hardest way to do it, unless you are disciplined. Watch a John Wayne movie and be like" WWJWD?........what would John Wayne do......" Would he take more pills when he started to get the shakes, KNOWING ITS NOT GOING TO HELP IN THE LONG RUN? Or would the Duke cowboy the ???? up, take a shot of whisky, take a xanax, and ride out the storm like a bad A$$?
Trust me i know its hard, the shakes are everynight, cold sweats, ur inside feeling like they are liquefying......and he wont feel good or happy for weeks.....but in a month if he is strong, he can be free.... FREE!
Its so worth it, support your man, if he needs some soup from his fav place when he is "getting cold" go get it, sit with him if that's what he needs, or leave him alone and just bring him a constant supply of movies and magazines, and SLURPEES! OMG Slurpees are amazing, that and Ensure........Detoxing off opiates is a VERY emotional, cathartic thing, he will be like a child, he'll cry alot(im a 2.5 tour Iraq/afgan Vet and ET made me cry uncontrollably like i was 5.....)
If he plays videos games, gets him Halo or Starcraft 2 or anything that is 15-30 minutes games that will eat up chunks of his time, or movies, or walks, stay occupied.
I wish hie and YOU the very best of luck, it hard as hell i know. But if it was easy, everyone could do it, but with support and a "IM gonna do this, Charlie Sheen, I got Tiger Blood and Three Extra Hearts!"attitude he can do it...
best of luck-------Eye of the Tiger !
Last edited by Philosophist; 04-19-2011 at 07:49 AM.
thanks for your post...it's really reassuring to hear from people in similar situations who have beaten this thing...he actually wasn't in a clinic for pain, he resorted to patches thinking it was better then pills because the pills were breaking his bank and the patches lasted longer and cost less...when i found out, i nearly flipped because it's continuous infusion...i dunno if he didn't just think enough about it and made it a pure financial thing or what, but he stopped after i found out...
he's more determined then i've ever seen him to quit, and i try not to nag him and take more a supportive role, but i don't know what's appropriate in terms of a good taper...i mean i just keep telling him he's got to make small jumps every so often, even if it's .25 every week or so...i told him >> pick up everything that was available OTC for the thomas recipe if he wants...i even referred him to the thread because i think he's find it helpful/inspiring...he's come so far now i just want him to stay positive because god knows ive seen him get really down on himself and depressed...
well if he is only doing .25 a week its gonna take FOREVER, like death by 1000 cuts that will do more harm than good. IMo...
HE MUST GO THROUGH DISCOMFORT, there is NO getting away from that. Tell him to watch Requim for a Dream, Trainspotting, and GoogLe "Ben: Diary of a Heroin Addict",,,,,,,,
......Tell him , its either have 2-3 nights of relatively mild discomfort or Those three works of film will be his future...... there is NO LIFE on opiates, its doctor sponsored heroin addiction, nothing else. If he wants to have quality of life AT ALL, he must pay for it with some rough nights to come.....but i can tell he has a loving woman behind him. That is worth double its weight in gold in situations like this, knowing that at the end of the tunnel(addiction) his life will be SO MUCH better , and thus yours will be too. Its HARD i know, breaking the addiction to opiates is one of teh HARDEST things in the world, but at the endhe can stand proud and be on eof the FEW, THE PROUD, one of teh few that was strong enough to take a look at his life and say "ENOUGH is ENOUGH" and then do it...
Its like watching black and white TV for 10 years then BAM all of a sudden the world is im bright Techi-color. When you wake up that first morning and FEEL GOOD, and dont Immediately start looking for your pill bottle...
Best of luck...... i hope he is able to stay on track.
P.s. Exponential reduction is the key i found.....it not easy, but if he is disciplined like a ninja/Chuck Norris he can do it......
***timing is key during this, break the doses up into 4 times a day i did, 6 and 12 am/pm
As in.... 400mg 4x a day for 2-3 days, then go to 200 4x a day for 2-4 days(until he feels "level" on that amount)..... Then cut again to 100 mg 4x a day......
and keep going until he is living off of a TINY piece of pill a day and feeling pretty well......
Then, take the plunge, load up on Xanax, And tylonol pm and w/e to calm him into sleep. then have him sweat out the last day of so, which will be about 10% of normal at its worst.....
### everytime he cuts his dose in half he will feel like ???? for a day or so, which is the HARDEST part, he will want to take extra to kill the pain, just remind him that it'll be over soon, gve him a hug a beer/bong/xanax and w/e #####
Im not a rn or Doctor, this is just what worked for me, i hope it works for you.
I drank Ensure, (Vanilla) and ate oranges bananas and drank alot.
Best of luck<3
time the doses out and dont cheat!
Last edited by Philosophist; 04-19-2011 at 07:08 PM.
thanks a lot again for your advice...i think i may just show him your posts because i feel like me telling him is like advice coming from a non-addict and how could "I" possible know or understand...but maybe if he sees its coming from someone who sort of has been there and done that, he'll realize that it's do-able....i know he's so afraid to get sick...especially because he works full time and really can't miss work...that's why he was trying to do small tapers and just get a little sick each time because he was afraid if he really got sicks for like 7-14 days, he would really be screwed for work...i sort of told him what u seem to imply in terms of cutting back a million times and having all these small withdrawals versus one bigger one and just getting it over with, but he is very insistent on doing it small and slow...it's just hard for him right now to cut from where he is, probably because he has cut quite a bit already....now everytime he even attempts a small cut, he's getting pretty sick...it's weird that from the higher doses down he really got minimally sick and now that he's down to 1.5 to 1.75 roxy 30s a day, he's stuck btw a rock and a hard spot...
I totally understand both sides here.....I ct'd myself....but i missed work. If he can't miss work, and is able to taper, what's the harm? He should stabilize a few days on this dose, then lower. It sounds like he's done a heck of a job so far.
Originally Posted by sportif7
Hell i KNOW it feels bad to cut dosaeges..... I 100% feel for him. Its the worst pain ever, your body MAKES you want to kick your legs and thrash your arms and SCREAM like banshee just to get the pain away.......but its wont subside. Its like having your soul sucked out of you chest over and over.......its awful.
So if he does read this,
BE strong, i Know ur scared(i was scared to death), angry, depressed, but TRUST me the DAY you are done with your w/d its will be like your first date with your wife, the most beautiful sunset ever, and a fine wine all in one....the world will have feeling and meaning again. TRUST me i know how great it feel when a pill hits your system...its like WOOOOOOAHHHHHH..... but it gets less and less everytime...... you end up chasing the unattainable high until you OD.
Like a tumor you MUST rip this addiction from your body or IT WILL TAKE OVER.
There can be no good life on long term pills that strong........
Be strong Bro, soon it will be over then you will feel proud and strong again, but this time it wont be the drug it will be you! Dont know you but i KNOW you can.
Just gotta get determined.
I know you have a work scedule that will not allow the W/d to show.......so i though all night on it and came up with this......
1.5 to 1.75 roxy 30s a day, is what on now and stable yes?
(lets even say 1.5)
work mon-friday on his 45 mg dose..... then saturday and sunday only take 30
(he'll feeel ????ty Saturday night but be good by Sunday night. )
Then work mon-Friday on 30 mg a day......
Rinse repeat, exponentially lowering until he can get off work on a friday and be Drug free by monday morning for work.
That is so doable, it wont be easy, if he is looking for easy, he choose the wrong drug to start taking.....no easy way out unless you rich.
I am now on my 3rd day of 100% sobriety and i was taking 2-3 times a day as he is........ so ITS DOABLE. i had MAYBE a total of 6 hours of super discomfort, but my fiance pumped me full of Xanax and weed and it was a relative breeze.
Its just takes the John Wayne effect, let NOTHING stand in teh way of what you want........
Good luck you two....im pulling for you.
And yes it is hard to talk to an addict about his addiction unless you have an addiction yourself.....we seem to see you as "normies", outsiders that just dont get it, its not personal. And just liek your mechanic doesnt want you in his shop telling you how to fix cars, drug addicts dont want you telling them how to be a drug addict.......
trust me its 100% normal..... its the drugs not him.
That was a lot of time and effort for you, very very cool! Not everyday someone will work out a taper for someone to work..................
It all comes down to whether your boyfriend is willing to do what Philo....says. He's right, it's a little bit of h3ll for a long time or just jump.
I myself couldn't handle the taper, miserable!
But now it's laid out for him, and in my opinion you couldn't have a better person in your corner than Philo..... (BTW, Philo,,you've done one h3ll of a job yourself, and a great attitude, congrats)!
Sport....if ur stillout there.
Im done with my Taper, and i feel great. Its so do-able, just gotta get a little John Wayne mentality........
Hope all turns out well for you.
thanks so much for all your input...again it really means a lot...right now he's trying to work on a taper to morphine extended release from the roxy's...10 mg pills...1-2....he's starting to feel the mental effects more then the physical and he is so scared to get sick...thats what is really holding him back is his fear of being so sick and uncomfortable...i told him i'd get all the stuff on the thomas recipe for him and go see his primary doc for some ambien/flexiril/xanax to go with the recipe (he has no insurance but i offered to help him with the costs)...but i can see the fear in his eyes and it breaks my heart...im gonna send him the link to this thread now so he can read your thoughts...
just wanted to say thanks to everyone because i sent my BF the link to this thread and i think he was really touched by the outreach and support...
just wanted to update you all...my bf was able to cut down to 1-1.5 these last two weeks, but has really been struggling to stay at that level, let alone taper again...he had a real breakdown this week and we decided together, that medical help from this point on would be the best route...he was able to taper down his doses pretty well that we're going to book an appt for next week to see an addiction medicine specialist for suboxone treatment...i've heard so many stories on this site about different experiences with the drug, but being a healthcare provider myself, i feel my bf has at least me on his side to advocate for correct use of the drug...most people have indicated induction is the most critical part and then it's all about the proper taper...i told him it was very honorable for him to admit he needs the help to kick the habit...thanks again everyone for all the support...let me know if you have any other kind words or similar experiences/advice
Just be sure to come back to the site when he is ready to induct. You want to use the least amount of suboxone possible to stabalize him. Don't let the Dr. set his dose! That is the best advice you are going to get!
I was trying to respond to another post but my computer kicked me out and now i cant find the post. But i work in a pain clinic and am also on suboxone cuz of being addicted to oxycontin & percocet for 9 years, opioids are out of your system within a few days, and you can take suboxone before you are in bad withdrawal state, i took a perc 30 at 8 am this morning and then took an 8 mg suboxone at 11 am and i was fine, minor back pain but thats it. You cannot take the percocet after the sub or it wont work, unless you take subutex which has no naxalone in it so the perc would still work. Suboxone is very addicting and is also a narcotic, and the withdrawals for suboxone are worse than getting off the percs or oxy's. Its worth it in the end though, and saves a lot of money. The new op oxycontin is not as strong as the old ones, and they purposly made them so you cant snott them (unless you cook it first) and i work in pain clinic so all this info has come straight from pain management doctors. The only drug that stays in your system for a long time is weed, about 30 days and the urine tests can tell exactly how much meds your taking. There has been a lot of false-positives in urine testing in massachusetts and if you eat poppy seed bagels you will fail a test for opiates. I was on subs for 2 years, stopped them and started with the oxy's again for about 3 weeks, taking either 7 perc 30's a day or 5 or 6 oxy 80's a day and just restarted on suboxone 8 mg 3 times a day and it doesnt work as well after youve relapsed. If anyone is trying to get off percs, suboxone is much better than methadone. Either way your replacing one addiction with another and for the person that said you cant snort suboxone, you can you just dont get as high. Suboxone still gets you high just not like bangin an 80 would. Oxy's will ruin your life and drain your bank account, i wasted over $25000 on them. Its not worth it, then once a doctor knows that, your medical records are screwed cuz they say drug addict so when you do really get hurt and need pain meds, you wont be able to get them (unless you find a really sympathetic doctor) which is hard to come by now.
so tomorrow is the big day for him...he's scared but determined...i called the doctor beforehand to speak with him about his philosophy on induction and taper...i told him based on what i had seen/heard many doctors induct too high and even though it's FDA approved for 24mg a day, no one really needs to be that high...he sort of agreed and stated he gets a lot of patients who were not put on the program correctly, but also stated me has heavy heroin users in the clinic as well who do need high doses...
Originally Posted by ddosher
i would love more then anything for my BF to induce with robert, but i'm not sure he's gonna go for it...it took so much for him to go to the doctor and admit the program and ask for help, he's even telling me now "not to tell the doctor how to do it..."