[hookedincali]

Hello all...I have been cruising through these forums for the last few days now and have gotten some really good information and motivation for casting this monkey off my back. I started using 5/500's about five yrs ago when they were perscribed to me after my apendix burst. Then 3.5 yrs later I hyper extended my right elbow ninety degress. ripped tendons, muslces, and breaking bone. The major problem was i had and have no health insurance to get the surgery needed to fix my arm. so i started on norcos with the ocassional batch of methadones thrown in there. well its 1.5 yrs later and my arm still hurts like the blazes everyday but i am beginning to think i would rather hurt then feel like sh*t everyday and spend every waking moment thinking about when my next dose is. i got up to about 5-8 norcos a day and for awhile was taking 1/2 a 5mg methadone about 4 times a day..this wednesday i bought 40 5's and the were gone in two days, that told me i needed to stop. i have recently stopped the methadone and just yesterday stopped the vics. needless to say last night was almost unbearable...i think the worse thing for me is the RLS in my arms and legs...i have sent my wife to the store for tylenol and magnessium, etc..
my question is this...i have the oppurtunity to taper with methadones and maybe vicodin. i have heard some people use methadone to taper and was wondering what the general thought was. the option of going to the doctors office for suboxone is not posible as i still have no health insurance and no job and just paid for a 5k wedding.anyways, i digress. i have read the 10% a month plan with the methadone but to me that seems like i would be catering to the desease more than beating it. any help you all could offer would be much appreciated. i have alrdy gotten so much strenght from all your stories of success and even the not so sucdessfull stories. I hope to hear from somebody soon. relapse is not an option for me. i can't widow my new wife before we have even begun our lives together. i am not a religous man but i am a spiritual one and one that beleives in family. i need to be here for mine.thanks in advance and shine on everybody

hookedincali

[iloerose]

Hooked, the best thing you have done is to post here. I'm sure you will get responses from those who know more than I. I have no experience with methadone. Just Vics. I am in day 3 of withdrawals. I posted The Thoms Recipe which many use for c/t. Take a look at it. If you can get some Hyland Restful Leg, it might help that crawly feeling, they also have a cramping formula. I got mine at a health food store they were $7.00 for 30. But someone says you can get them at walmart.
At least if you are going to taper or cold turkey get the stuff for the Thomas Recipe.

The Thomas Recipe - For Opiate Withdrawal

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I found this reading the board, but decided to post it again for those who haven't found it and for all us "newbies". Peace and good luck to all of those here stuggling with addicition.


"PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas

THOMAS RECIPE

If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

For the Recipe, You'll need:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.

2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).

3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.

4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper, Magnesium and Potassium (you may not find the potassium in the same supplement).

5. Vitamin B6 caps.

6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:

Start the vitamin/mineral supplement right away (or the first day you can keep it down), preferably with food. Potassium early in the detox is important to help relieve RLS (Restless Leg Syndrome). Bananas are a good source of potassium if you can't find a supplement for it.

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

Continue to take the vitamin/mineral supplement with breakfast.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

Thomas"


I want to say congrats on your marriage! You have support of someone who loves you! And you will have support if, even if some of us can't give answers we will be here for you!

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by hookedincali

Hello all...I have been cruising through these forums for the last few days now and have gotten some really good information and motivation for casting this monkey off my back. I started using 5/500's about five yrs ago when they were perscribed to me after my apendix burst. Then 3.5 yrs later I hyper extended my right elbow ninety degress. ripped tendons, muslces, and breaking bone. The major problem was i had and have no health insurance to get the surgery needed to fix my arm. so i started on norcos with the ocassional batch of methadones thrown in there. well its 1.5 yrs later and my arm still hurts like the blazes everyday but i am beginning to think i would rather hurt then feel like sh*t everyday and spend every waking moment thinking about when my next dose is. i got up to about 5-8 norcos a day and for awhile was taking 1/2 a 5mg methadone about 4 times a day..this wednesday i bought 40 5's and the were gone in two days, that told me i needed to stop. i have recently stopped the methadone and just yesterday stopped the vics. needless to say last night was almost unbearable...i think the worse thing for me is the RLS in my arms and legs...i have sent my wife to the store for tylenol and magnessium, etc..
my question is this...i have the oppurtunity to taper with methadones and maybe vicodin. i have heard some people use methadone to taper and was wondering what the general thought was. the option of going to the doctors office for suboxone is not posible as i still have no health insurance and no job and just paid for a 5k wedding.anyways, i digress. i have read the 10% a month plan with the methadone but to me that seems like i would be catering to the desease more than beating it. any help you all could offer would be much appreciated. i have alrdy gotten so much strenght from all your stories of success and even the not so sucdessfull stories. I hope to hear from somebody soon. relapse is not an option for me. i can't widow my new wife before we have even begun our lives together. i am not a religous man but i am a spiritual one and one that beleives in family. i need to be here for mine.thanks in advance and shine on everybody

hookedincali

I surely hope you don't use methadone to taper off hydrocodone. That's like shooting a fly with a shotgun. It's a total overkill. Either cold taper down or cold turkey if you can't do suboxone. But trust me methadone is NOT the smart thing to do with your history. God bless.

[iloerose]

hooked, if you need support or whatever, we're here for you. I'm on day 4 and this is the hardest thing i've done, but I know it's worth it. I was an isolated zombie, didn't want to go anywhere or do anything. Some of my motivation is coming back. If you can get the stuff for the thomas recipe, it will help. 3-5 days of flu like symptoms and then you're done. Then you will really be there for your family.

[bogould]

Get off the chemicals and smoke the herb God has planted for us..it will solve all of your problems..

Jah rastafari

[mottam]

hooked:
Do you have a doctor you can be honest with that will help you?
That is what made it for me.
I told my MD that I was addicted to opiates.
He helped me with clonidine, valium, and temazepam to get through the first 5days. Vitamins, Imodium, and Gatorade a BIG plus.
Like everyone told me, and I am relaying to you, you feel like ******** for ~ 1 week, then the physical stuff is over.

I am living proof it can be done, and while you may FEEL like it, you are NOT going to die. You are going to start living again. So worth it!

Good luck.

[MaisieC]

Hi hooked,

You're doing the right thing. You just need to hang in there. I agree with others that you should stay away from the methadone. It is a very strong drug, and it's not for people getting off vicodin; it's way too powerful.

Since you're already a couple of days clean, the very best thing for you to do is hang in there and gut it out. I know what you mean about the restless legs; it's a misery. But it will gradually get better. The Thomas recipe is really helpful.

If you have problems with cravings or need someone to talk to, I highly recommend finding an NA meeting near you and going. You're not making a commitment for life when you go to a meeting. You may decide to continue going, or you may go for a short while. But there's nothing as helpful as having other people around who understand. I mean people face-to-face, in addition to online.

Hang in there!

Maisie

[mottam]

hooked:
Totally agree w/ Maisie - if you are a couple days in - you are half way there.
Keep posting, stay clean. I am only on day 9, but it so much better.
ALL my physical w/d is over. The hardest part, as Robert states, is staying clean.

If I had to restart the clock on this and go through it AGAIN, then I think would lose my mind. "The other side" (being clean), even with the emotional ups and downs, is exponentially better then using - take that to the bank.

Good luck

[hookedincali]

Thank you all for your replies. My wife went out friday and got all the thomas recipe materials and it has been hell. but im on day 6 (5.5ish, last tiny dose was friday at 9am) and i think i am finally starting to see the light at the end of this dark and painful tunnel. I really believe the thomas recipe helped HEAPS. if nothing else than for the psycological aspect that you are taking something that IS GOING making you feel better. weather it has or it was just my mind, i don't really kno (or care). All i know is that the hope of the help that recipe offered was huge. As for how im doing, Last night was the worse night so far. Virtually no sleep. It was also my first night without the Xanax (1mg a night with tylenol pm for 4 nights) , so maybe that was the case. It seems the daytime flu symptoms started to decline around day 3 and 4. 2 epsom salt baths a day really helped me tho. It is nice to be able to sit there and sweat it out without feeling like your grossing up whatever couch/pillows/bed you'd otherwise be sitting on and sweating through (just be sure to HYDRATE while your sweating in these baths =).

oddly enough i haven't had any cravings for a pill. the RLS has had my mind occupied since day one. I can deal with everything else but that RLS was/is a HUGE B****. on another positive note the pain in my arm seems to be fading. i really think that my mind was creating a lot more pain than was actually there just so i'd pop a couple more vics. I hope it continues cause pain like i was having with no way to end it is not a pretty prospect.

well i will stop babbling now and say THANK YOU to all of you who replied and indeed to all of you who have shared your stories here. That takes guts to even acknowledge this monkey on our backs, much less to kick the monkey off. all of your stories gave me good hope. but i couldn't have done it without my wife, she has been and is so amazing. She has been there judgment free and willing to drive for hours to get me meds and groceries. To all those thinking about and wanting to quit i can only say this. If you are questioning weather or not you should quit it's probably a good indicator that you should. get someone in your corner, some kind of a support. and follow the thomas recipe. i've read that people have died and all that ******** but it seems to me if you follow the recipe to the letter all your doing is following the normal doses that are written on the vitamin bottles themselves. Any thing in excess is bad. take it minute by minute if you have to...sitting there at day 1 and trying to think about day 7 was bad for me. OVERWHELMINGLY BAD. there were times i just had take it second by second. get a hobby. ANYTHING you can lose yourself in, if only for a moment. i am a musician and sitting there on the couch with my guitar really did help take my mind of things momentarily. and like i said when your taking it second by second a few moments of solace works wonders. i'm not out of it yet but i do see the light. i am AMAZED at how vibrant the world seems now. Colors so vivid. things seem brighter. keep at it guys. don't ever give up. we ALL have it in ourselves to do this. Never underestimate the primal human instinct to survive and the bodies ability to rebound back. you WILL feel better. you WILL be YOU again. YOU CAN DO THIS!
A VERY SPECIAL THANK YOU to ALL those who have beaten their own demons and continue to come here and offer their support to all of us who need it so badly. You are angels of good. TRUE examples of what CAN be. with a huge lump in my throat and chest bursting with admiration i again say THANK YOU..from the bottom of my heart THANK YOU!
I believe my email is listed on the sight if anybody here needs an ear feel free to email me. no one can take away the pain but we can all give you hope and strength.
I will update here in a few days with my status. So until then, SHINE ON...

PS. I flushed the methadones Saturday morning with my wife..HUGE spiritual experience!

[mottam]

hooked:
Great to hear!
Keep posting, and vent when you need to.

Send some of you weather over here to the east coast!

w/ds, and rain, rain, rain - blah.

Stay tough.

[hookedincali]

haha M...tell ya if you would've asked to trade weather a week i woud've thrown those 100+'s yur way in a heartbeat...but now that we're down to low 80s and high 70's....well...stay tough..i'll say hi to the sun for ya

Shine on...

[mottam]

Thanks!

Hang in there, buddy - DON'T USE.
I'm telling you - it feels so great.

I have a "person" messing with me right now that needs to be taught a lesson.
I have finally made it to a point I haven't been in years, and maybe I am over reacting a bit. This gut is pushing my buttons when I am in a battle for my life - like you. I have no plans on losing.

Stay cool, don't use, and don't let anyone ******** with your recovery.

Good night buddy.

[iloerose]

HoolkedinCali: I'm so glad to hear you're doing better and taking it minute by minute. You're day 6 now right? BIG YESSSS! It gets better day by day. I'm in day 9 and I'm feeling better than I have in years. So much more energy. I was a zombie, sitting on the couch, reading a book. Not payin' much attention to what was going on in my world. I'm NEVER going back. I had no idea, but my son, who is in Seattle knew what was wrong, knew I was f**** up most of the time and has been so worried about getting a call that his mom is dead or in the hospital with serious issues, my ex husband shared this with me when I told him.about the vics. My son knew, and me so thinking no one realized the extent of the problem. I can't believe the ******** I must have put him through. I don't know how I'm ever going to make that better. As badly as I feel emotionally right now I refuse to use, I refuse! Stay strong, you've got a good helpmate there. Life is so much better despite my having to face up. Sorry to dump, Am here if you need support or let us know what we can do.

Peace Out (as my son would say)

Iloe Rose

[hookedincali]

Hello again all! It is the morning of day 9 and i FINALLY was able to sleep last night, yay! I woke up this morning with a much clearer head than i have in awhile. I'm still a lil clammy but i figure it will take some time fore my body to completely adjust. The last 3 days were the malaise days..WOW..i felt like i had been massively drugged. Such a weird feeling, much better than the physical w/d's but still weird. As for cravings I have had none. Well, I thought about how good I could sleep if i took one for the last 7 nights but thats it. No daytime cravings. I feel like my next hurdle will be breaking my cycle of sitting on the couch and getting out there and getting some exercise. I took the dog for a walk yesterday morning. I think i will again today.
I want again to say thank you to you all. I am forever amazed at the impact the internet has had on our lives and i am amazed again. How a group of strangers can come together so intimately and help each other out amazes and delights me.You have all helped to give me my life back and i will be forever grateful. Shine on all...NO-LONGER-hookedincali

[mottam]

Great to hear!
Now, as I have been told and instructed, getting clean is the easy part, staying clean...
Just some advice from someone on day 15:
1) Watch out for triggers that will mess with you. Avoid them if at all possible.
2) Keep only those with your best interests around you; everyone/everything else is background noise (if possible).
3) It is great to feel alive again - be careful of the emotional roller coast you may face. Do not use it as an excuse to use. Post, post, and post if you start feeling things you don't understand and/or feel you can't control.

Stay tough - great job.

[hookedincali]

funny you should say that Mottam. The physical w/d's aren't like they were and i have thus far avoided any cravings (knock on wood), but the flu symptoms, malaise, and most importantly, the sleeplessness are not fading. Is this normal on day 10? i have slept one broken eight hour night but every other night has been 1 MAYBE 2 hours. Even at night when im so frusterated not being able to sleep i really don't want to use. but i REALLY need something to happen soon cause i don't kno how much longer my mind can take not sleeping. i dread the night. and i mean that quite literally. I have tried every sleep aid i can get my hands of in the recomended dosage and no luck. Even valium didnt work and a 10'r ALWAYS works. sorry for babbling. just so at my wits end right now with this sleeplessness. and to top it all off no sleep for over a week and finals are looming in two days, sigh.

And yes-sir-ree you are right about those emotions are all over the place. Not so much w/ anger tho, just every other emotion you can think of. How long does that usually last?

Shine on...

STILL NOT-hookedincali

[hookedincali]

ok i'm just about done with this no sleeping thing...i dont want to use or get high but eff me i need sleep and if thats whats gonna give it to me.....i mean ffs how long can this no sleep thing go on. trying to lay down and sleep while my joints are teryin to bend backwards, and the ants are runnnin over my brain is not working. I NEED SLEEP NOW. i think i'm gonna head to the ER cause i'm freakin out over this sleep thing..cant take anymore...no use tho...i just need something to ssleep. too much...Shine On...

[Robert_325]

Know you don't want to hear this but NO ONE ever died from lack of sleep but they have died from drugs. Eventually you'll get tired enough to pass out until your sleep becomes regulated over time. I didn't sleep for three months when I first got clean. It will happen if you just try to relax. I know it isn't easy. God bless.

[hookedincali]

o man...that long?!? sigh, i kno i wont use but this is nuttin me out..thanksfor the reply robert i hope it doesnt take as long for me..but i guess i waas on em for about 4yrs...damn

[mottam]

hooked:
Please be careful with the lack of sleep thing.
Robert is right - you won't die from it. However, it does impair cognitive functions, and thus your thought patterns may not be optimal.

Don't use it as an excuse to use. Exercise your body until you tire out so much you just drop.
Almost of us in recovery are suffering from insomnia.
You can make it through - hang tough.

[hookedincali]

Well, it's day 12 and i got my second 8 hour night of sleep in the last 11 or 12 nights last night, yay. Still a restless sleep but it's sleep nonetheless, and i will take that however i can get it. I will say i was and am totally unprepared for the state i am in. I went to school for the first time since this began yesterday and today and the thing that is getting me is that i feel well enough to get around and take care of errands but i still feel sooo horrible and achy. i have on more than one occasion caught my mind wondering about taking a pill just to not feel so horrible. I WON"T of course. but i was totally unprepared for this feeling. it is so frusterating to feel so uncomfortable and ********py every second of every day since day 1. i thought once the worst of the w/d's passed i would be ok. boy was i wrong. i guess after 4 yrs of heavy usage i got awhile to go.

another thing i was TOTALLY unprepared for was the w/d's from the acetaminophen. MADNESS. after about day 6 or 7 i stopped taking the tylenol and that seems to be one of the sources of how ********py i feel. if i take two tylenol i feel better. if i take Unisom (no acetaminophen) then i don't sleep at all but if i take tylenol PM i sleep better. i have taken 2 tylenols with my morning vitamins and am going to start tapering to 1 in the morning then 2 tylenol pm's at night. then none in the morning and 1 pm at night. ijust really couldn't believe the w/d's from the acetaminophen. are these w/d symptoms normal for acetaminophen? how long do these last?

i kno we all brought ourselves to this point and i have no one to blame but myself. but jeez i am sooooooo rdy to start feeling even halfway decent. and this constant clamminess and cold sweats are killing me. i feel so gross all the time.

I'm at day 12 and i sure as hell am not going to use because there is no way i could do this all over again. and if i'm not prepared to quit again than its either stay clean and live or use and die early. easy choice right, lol?

anyways thx for all the support thus far guys. i have my wife and all of you to thank for getting me this far. sorry for babbling i'm just trying to understand why i feel so ********ty still...as always i'll check back soo nand Shine on...

[mottam]

hooked:
Glad to hear you are hanging in there.
I am going on day 18 and everything is not "right" yet. However, it is a far cry better then how I felt using, and the first seven days getting clean.

I had so much/many different pains - neck, back, my teeth (even though I have little dental work). As people explained to me, it is your mind and body getting back in sync. Stay strong - ride that ******** out.

Emotionally, I still am going up and down. However, I realize why. It will take quite a while to "stabilize". Again - a small price to pay for freedom.

Sleep: Probably everyone on this site can tell you stories of poor sleep. If you got 2 nights of 8 hours sleep in a row - you are kicking A$$!

Stay tough, stay clean, keep posting!

Kindest Regards

[hookedincali]

well the way i see it we're both on our way! And Congo-Rats on D18! the road to freedom of any kind has never easy. and i wish those two nights were in a row, lmao. talk to ya soon Mot =)

Shine on..

[mottam]

hooked:
Good attitude - this is definitely not easy, but well worth it.

The hardest part for me right now is neither physical nor emotional - it is "mental".
I have been fighting of urges by posting, reading, and posting. Everyone says they will go away (or calm down) with time. I am banking on that end result.

Until then, stay clean, and stay close.

Have a great day.

[melinda7.5]

Hi mot
I stoled this from another web site but it seems to make a lot of sence...
just in case you want to read it
Have a great day....
Melinda

Its kind of long and doesn't all apply but very interesting...

There is a natural chemical that our brain produces that is called Dopamine. This chemical is what stimulates our pleasure center and also what lets our brain inturperate what measures it needs to take for survival. So, picture if you will, the following. On one side of your brain you have a "sac" that contains the Dopamine, on the other side of your brain you have a receptor (For the rest of this post I'm going to refer to this receptor as a gate for easier explanation).

Now, in a normal, non addicted brain, Dopamine is released naturally after say a good meal or sex. In the normal course of things for instance, if we eat a steak dinner, the sac will release the normal amount of Dopamine, let's say one squirt. The gate opens, receives the Dopamine, we feel good and everything is as it should be. Now, drugs also release Dopamine only at a much higher level, so while a candy bar might release one "squirt" of Dopamine, drugs release up to 100 times the normal amount of Dopamine. So, when we first begin to use, we swallow a pill or shoot some Heroin, 100 squirts of Dopamine gets released causing the Euphoric feeling that leads us to use again. The problem now though is that after a while, that one gate cannot open fast enough to accept the unusually high amount of Dopamine that is being supplied, so being the amazing organ that the human brain is, it simply grows another gate to help it accomodate. So, now we have 2 gates that are open and want to be fed. So instead of needing to only take 1 or 2 pills a day, suddenly we find that we need 3 or 4. Now 200 times the normal amount of Dopamine is being released and the process continues, these 2 gates need help so the brain grows another, and another and another........Now we find ourselves needing 6 or 7 pills a day.

While this is happening our brain is led to believe that it now HAS to have this chemical to survive, just as it knows that it needs food and sex to live and to reproduce. It know thinks that without drugs it will die, for you see the brain doesn't know what we are giving it, just that it MUST have it or die. So, with continued use, our tolerance grows due to the extra gates that we have open, that need to be fed and fed on a consistant basis. So, as opposed to the normal brain that has it's one normal gate, an addict may have 20 or 30 gates now. This is why we can take drugs in a high enough dosage that it would kill a normal person but for us it is the amount that we need just to feed all those gates and keep ourselves normal.
So now, we deciede to quit. Easy enough, right?, I mean, just stop swallowing the pills and all will be well (ever been told that?). Well, as you know, it's not tht easy and the reason why is when we suddenly take that drug away,stop feeding those gates, our brain goes into panic mode, it thinks it is dying. So, what follows? 7 to 10 days of extreme sickness (WD). Our brain is sending out distress signals just like it would if we quit eating (think for a minute what a human will do if they get hungry enough and then you can see why addicts will do things they never thought themselves capable of to get what they need.) Now, after the first few days, the brain begins to realize that it is not going to die and we start to physcially feel better. But that is by no means the end of the problem.

Think of those gates for a minute, wouldn't it be nice if when we quit they disappeared and everything went back to normal? Unfortunately, that is not the case, the addicts brain is forever altered. Those gates NEVER go away, we will always have all those extras. Now, this is where it is so difficult in early recovery. Ok, so we have quit taking drugs, we feel a little better, BUT now we eat a candy bar, the normal amount (that one squirt) of Doapmine is released, BUT ALL of those extra gates open to receive it and our brain starts to scream "IT'S NOT ENOUGH", which of course it is not, we have 30 gates opening, expecting to be fed and they get one little blast instead of what it is used to. This is why in early recovery anything that releases Dopamine needs to be reduced or eliminated if possible. Of course we have to eat, we can't eliminate that of course but have you ever noticed when you first got clean that you found yourself overeating or craving right after a good meal? We crave after we eat because those gates are open and we may overeat trying to satisfy the need for excess Dopamine. That is why it is a good idea to avoid sweets or products like NyQuil, because they contain sugar and alcohol, which "teases' those gates unnecessarily.

Now, while those gates never go away, the good news is that after we are clean for awhile, they do become less sensitive. Eventually even though they are still there, fewer will open and things return to as close to normal as we will ever be able to get to. So, basically we have them, they are laying dormant and if we get say a good 6 months to a year clean time, they pretty much leave us alone. BUT, how many times have you heard an addict say that they were clean for a while and thought they could just use recreationally now and control it? Of course we can't control it, once we take that first pill (or whatever) again, the HUGE amount of Doapmine is released and ALL of those dormant gates are wakened and our tolerance is just as high as it always was. We don't have to build it back up, we pick right back up at the amounts that we are accustomed to. Or how many times have you seen someone who never had a drinking problem get clean from pills and then become an alcoholic? They think that if they are not taking their DOC they will be ok. But remember, our brain doesn't know if we are feeding it Vicodin, Heroin or whiskey. All it knows or cares about it is the end result that the substance produces.

Now, we are getting clean, the WD's are over, we are not using any other substance but yet we are miserable, can't sleep, are depressed, anxious, etc, etc....Now, why is this, it's not fair, right?, I mean, we did what we were supposed to and yet we feel so ABNORMAL and it seems to last forever. Well, the reason for this is simple, when we were growing all those extra gates and training our brain to rely on a unnatural chemical, we ACTUALLY, PHYSCIALLY altered the chemical makeup in the brain. So, now we may be clean but we are left with a bunch of synopsis (sic),and receptors that are in essence "misfiring". We feel the way we do because our brain in no longer functioning normally. This does eventually heal but it is not a quick process by any means. Our brains have to repair all the damage we did when we went in and rearranged it's furniture so to speak. Usually this takes anywhere from several months to a year. The longest time belonging to those whose DOC is opiated based, such as Vicodin, Percocet, Oxycontin and Heroin. This is why such extreme caution has to be use in early recovery and also why so many addicts relapse.

It take so long to feel normal again that most of us give up and return to the drug induced normality that they are used to. I mean, how long can you go through living everyday just not caring about anything? Most can't get through that. BUT, if you stay strong, have a support system and be patient, one day you discover that you can smile again and while it may only last a few seconds, it is a real feeling and you can being to hope. There is life after drugs....gotta give it some time tho! (:

[mottam]

melinda:
Thanks - that is spot on.
I have been over-eating since I got clean. Lobster, King Crab, Filet Mignon, Carvel extra thick strawberry shakes every night, etc.

So, now at least I understand the physiological reason why. It still sure is scary!

I am going to copy and paste this piece into a Word doc and keep it around to remind myself why I am feeling like this.

I definitely can see why so many of us relapse. It is such a strong urge that requires so much self control. I did it to myself, but man that sucks.

Maybe it is time to step up my recovery with more counseling - whether formal (private), or informal (NA - some group). This is such a fight....

[melinda7.5]

Hi mot
we all did it to are selves...but we didn't mean to...so give yourself a break.now we know...It did not take me a year to get better it really only took a couple of months...
but my exercise did help and I think it's OK to eat king crab for a little while
you need to have some fun and that is good clean fun I have enjoyed you talking about eating
I really do think life is about the little things...they really are what is important.
Have a great day...
Melinda

[hookedincali]

wow Mel thx sooo much for posting that! That really does help to alleviate some of the frusteration i have been feeling. At least now i kno WHY i am feeling this way. and why my sex drive has been in over drive. soo many questions answered. It won't take away the discomfort that we have brought on ourselves but at least i know im not some freak who has been doing things wrong. thx so much! how long do you expect the clamminess and sweats to last usually? does anybody kno? or is it vastly different for each person?

Shine on all!

[mottam]

hooked:

I think all this craziness varies from person to person.
Today, it crept up from behind me and slammed me over the head.

Anyway, we make it through - right?
Just don't use.
I'll be ********ing damned if I am losing this time around.
It is my fourth attempt - my first serious one.

As long as we have each other to lean on and learn from, we should be OK.
I honestly believe that.

On another note - what another ********ty day in NJ. We have had "Seattle" weather ALL SUMMER LONG!

Stay tough!

[Debpurpletiger]

Originally Posted by hookedincali

how long do you expect the clamminess and sweats to last usually? does anybody kno? or is it vastly different for each person?

Shine on all!

Withdrawing from Opiates is a HARD thing to do. The first 2 weeks are usually hell. After that, the physical symptoms go away but the mental "cravings" can last for months!!

One thing I have learned, is that a "craving" feeling WILL subside if you just ride it out for 20 minutes. Do something you enjoy for that 20 minutes and you really will see that it will subside. Of course, since the mental stuff can go on and on, you will probably have your fair share of 20 minute cravings.

Remember, tho.....keep at it because it WILL get better....with time. Good job and good luck!