MaisieC or Robert-Stop here please!!!

**3furrykids** · 09-01-2010, 09:57 AM

I started a thread this a.m about coming off of Fentanyl both because I want to and because I don't have a choice....Pls read the thread....you'll understand. I do hfraid of this have some chronic health issues and pain that zap some energy as it is so I am very very afraid of this process. But, it is going to happen and there is nothing I can do about it.....This is what I have access to to help......Tramadol-50mg x 8. That is actually my husband's but he has given his blessing for me to use it.......anything to make this easier. I have also heard it can make things worse....what do you think? I have a multi-vit that has most.....not all..of what the Thomas Recipe recommends. I also have Atarax 50 mg-it was prescribed to my dog for allergies- which I guess per the internet can be used for anxiety.....I would be soooo grateful fo any advice or support. I am really scared.

**Robert_325** · 09-01-2010, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by 3furrykids

I started a thread this a.m about coming off of Fentanyl both because I want to and because I don't have a choice....Pls read the thread....you'll understand. I do hfraid of this have some chronic health issues and pain that zap some energy as it is so I am very very afraid of this process. But, it is going to happen and there is nothing I can do about it.....This is what I have access to to help......Tramadol-50mg x 8. That is actually my husband's but he has given his blessing for me to use it.......anything to make this easier. I have also heard it can make things worse....what do you think? I have a multi-vit that has most.....not all..of what the Thomas Recipe recommends. I also have Atarax 50 mg-it was prescribed to my dog for allergies- which I guess per the internet can be used for anxiety.....I would be soooo grateful fo any advice or support. I am really scared.

Not to be negative but eight 50mg trams won't do a whole lot vs the w/d symptoms of fentanyl unless you're getting it refilled very quickly. You might make it a day or two, (possibly three if you're will to endure some w/d) on 400mg of trams with a fentanyl addiction of several years. It's just too strong of a drug and you've been on it for some time.

Not to be judgemental of you but being willing to take your dog's medicine is a red flag. There are supplements like Kava or Valerian Root that are designed for human consumption that would help more with anxiety. You could also try L-Tyrosine with vitamin B-6. But the w/d symptoms of fentanyl are going to be stronger than the benefits you receive from any of these.

I hate fentanyl. You've been on a high dose and I think it should only be used for terminal cases personally. It just sucks the life out of you. This is a perfect example why I feel that way. I bet you would find that if you got off the fentanyl your pain would actually lessen as your dependency to such a powerful opiate is very painful in itself. You go into w/d every few hours so you don't know what is really causing most of your pain. The pain of the w/d is probably worse than the pain of your actual physical problems.

How long will it be before you get the refill? God bless.

**yezdegerd** · 09-01-2010, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Not to be negative but eight 50mg trams won't do a whole lot vs the w/d symptoms of fentanyl unless you're getting it refilled very quickly. You might make it a day or two, (possibly three if you're will to endure some w/d) on 400mg of trams with a fentanyl addiction of several years. It's just too strong of a drug and you've been on it for some time.

Not to be judgemental of you but being willing to take your dog's medicine is a red flag. There are supplements like Kava or Valerian Root that are designed for human consumption that would help more with anxiety. You could also try L-Tyrosine with vitamin B-6. But the w/d symptoms of fentanyl are going to be stronger than the benefits you receive from any of these.

I hate fentanyl. You've been on a high dose and I think it should only be used for terminal cases personally. It just sucks the life out of you. This is a perfect example why I feel that way. I bet you would find that if you got off the fentanyl your pain would actually lessen as your dependency to such a powerful opiate is very painful in itself. You go into w/d every few hours so you don't know what is really causing most of your pain. The pain of the w/d is probably worse than the pain of your actual physical problems.

How long will it be before you get the refill? God bless.

Robert does speak the truth here, fentanyl is in my opinion terminal only. There are quite a lot of other pain management options out there if you do have chronic pain, but you've been on those for so long it really does get hard to separate what's your actual pain and what pain the medicine itself is causing. Robert is the pro here but that's a pretty scary drug to come off of, I would consider looking for a clinic for subs or even methadone, just don't let them talk you into long term care, take the smaller dose route, don't let them pump you full of that ******** either. I hope you can get through this!

**Robert_325** · 09-01-2010, 10:50 AM

3furrykids ....... If you decide you want to get off the fentanyl I can help you with the suboxone route. I would hate to cold turkey off your fentanyl situaion. Here is a link of how I do the sub therapy. I've used this for years and have been pretty successful. Let me know if you want my help. God bless.

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

**3furrykids** · 09-01-2010, 10:52 AM

I am not a good typist so I as trying to not go into everything bbuuuuttt....When I had Leukemia I did actually fight them a bit on the Fentayl.....I was taking Demerol in the hospital and planned on then taking nothing out of the hospital. They told me "fentanyl or nothing"because it was less addictive then Demerol....ugh!
For the record, I do understand-really- your point but Atarax is also known as Vistaril in human medicine and is used all the time as an anti-emetic, anti- anxiety and my dog -whom I love with every fiber of my being- hasn't needed it in 6 mos.
Refills on fentanyl? Assuming a new doc is willing to keep up the same regimen......probably 10 days. We thought my husand's ins would kick in day of hire..... It will kick in after one FULL pay period.....10 more days. When my husand gets home.....I will send him after Thomas Recipe supplies....Can someone stick with me through this?

**Robert_325** · 09-01-2010, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by 3furrykids

I am not a good typist so I as trying to not go into everything bbuuuuttt....When I had Leukemia I did actually fight them a bit on the Fentayl.....I was taking Demerol in the hospital and planned on then taking nothing out of the hospital. They told me "fentanyl or nothing"because it was less addictive then Demerol....ugh!
For the record, I do understand-really- your point but Atarax is also known as Vistaril in human medicine and is used all the time as an anti-emetic, anti- anxiety and my dog -whom I love with every fiber of my being- hasn't needed it in 6 mos.
Refills on fentanyl? Assuming a new doc is willing to keep up the same regimen......probably 10 days. We thought my husand's ins When my husand gets home.....I will send him after Thomas Recipe supplies....Can someone stick with me through this?

Sure people will stick with you. You won't get the cold shoulder because you're not stopping. It's just going to continue to get worse as life goes on with the route you're taking, whether by choice or not. There are SO MANY other options that are less serious drugs than that lousy fentanyl. But you'll get support here, don't worry. The Thomas Recipe supplies will help some and I would add Kava to it for anxiety if you don't have access to any valium or klonopin. Just a suggestion as this isn't going to be fun for you.

And I seriously wasn't judging you on the dog's medication. It just shows the state of despair you've found yourself and I truly hate to see you that desperate. I wouldn't judge you.

I would try to stretch the trams out as much as you can and still get some relief from them. You're in my prayers. God bless.

**3furrykids** · 09-01-2010, 11:10 AM

I do want to stop.....I was even starting the plan before we knew we needed to move.Doc told me to wait unti settled in the new city so I would be able to see it through. I really expected to have a new doc who could see me through with medical support. For the moment, yes, I want to minimize w/d because I have lots of health issues and I am in a new city and just overwhelmed. I will talk to new doc about stopping but it will be 10 days or so. I have 400 mg total of Tramadol in 50 mg tabs

**3furrykids** · 09-01-2010, 11:15 AM

Do you know why some say Tramadol can make it worse? I am worried about seizures? Can it happen? This was sooo not the plan...transition to new doc and a medical plan was supposed to be what happened. If I get through this before a new doc....NO WAY will I go back to Fentanyl.....How long could this go on?

**yezdegerd** · 09-01-2010, 11:21 AM

You might want to try toughing out the days and using the trams at night. Nighttime is the worst for WD. And just like in the thomas recipe LOTS OF HOT BATHS. Literally sit in there as long as you can handle and as often as you can handle. I'm not sure if this is the same for everyone but my temperature threshold is off when I come off painkillers, so make sure you can handle the heat before getting in

Best of luck, and follow Robert, he's a pro. Consider suboxone like he said also, they are cash doctors so google suboxone doctor and whatever zip you're in and start making some calls if you choose to go that route

**Robert_325** · 09-01-2010, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by 3furrykids

Do you know why some say Tramadol can make it worse? I am worried about seizures? Can it happen? This was sooo not the plan...transition to new doc and a medical plan was supposed to be what happened. If I get through this before a new doc....NO WAY will I go back to Fentanyl.....How long could this go on?

Trams can cause seizures but you have nothing to worry about with only eight 50mg pills. That is nothing to be concerned with. You're problem is going to be getting through this until you get some more meds.

I promise you that I would call my old dr and ask him to call in some hydrocodone. That is something that he can do across state lines over the phone. He can't do that with fentanyl as it's a class II scheduled narcotic where hydrocodone is a class III. It would help get you through this and the hydrocodone isn't expensive. I would get on it right NOW. You're going to be so freakin sick by the time ten days go by with your history if you don't do something. Not trying to scare you, just being realistic.

Hope he will show some compassion for you And as soon as you can handle it suboxone would be the way to go. Your new insurance will pay for it if you have decent coverage. I can help you get clean with that route. God bless.

**yezdegerd** · 09-01-2010, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Trams can cause seizures but you have nothing to worry about with only eight 50mg pills. That is nothing to be concerned with. You're problem is going to be getting through this until you get some more meds.

I promise you that I would call my old dr and ask him to call in some hydrocodone. That is something that he can do across state lines over the phone. He can't do that with fentanyl as it's a class II scheduled narcotic where hydrocodone is a class III. It would help get you through this and the hydrocodone isn't expensive. I would get on it right NOW. You're going to be so freakin sick by the time ten days go by with your history if you don't do something. Not trying to scare you, just being realistic.

Hope he will show some compassion for you And as soon as you can handle it suboxone would be the way to go. Your new insurance will pay for it if you have decent coverage. I can help you get clean with that route. God bless.

Are you sure about that rob? I was at a pharmacy a while back and the doctor accidently gave me oxycontin instead of codone, I asked if he could call in and they said no?

If not then definately take that route, he's right, they are cheap. i think I was paying 36 dollars for 120 10/500mg lortabs, and those were watson, the upper class generics

**MaisieC** · 09-01-2010, 11:45 AM

Hi 3furry,

You are in the best of hands with Robert. Hang in there and follow his advice.

I know a lot about tramadol, and Robert is right that the small amount you have won't be of much use for your purposes. In general, using trams to get off other opiates is not a good idea, because they actually cause a more complicated addiction than the opiates alone; many people find the withdrawal off them a lot worse. But with so few pills, they shouldn't really enter into the equation trying to get off something as powerful as Fentanyl.

Hang in there, listen to Robert, and hold tight.

Good luck to you.

Take care,
Maisie

**Robert_325** · 09-01-2010, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by yezdegerd

Are you sure about that rob? I was at a pharmacy a while back and the doctor accidently gave me oxycontin instead of codone, I asked if he could call in and they said no?

If not then definately take that route, he's right, they are cheap. i think I was paying 36 dollars for 120 10/500mg lortabs, and those were watson, the upper class generics

Oxycontin or oxycodone are both a class II just like fentanyl. That is why I said to use hydros, lortabs, norcos, they are all class III drugs that CAN be called in. NO oxy though which includes percocets. God bless.

**yezdegerd** · 09-01-2010, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Robert_325

Oxycontin or oxycodone are both a class II just like fentanyl. That is why I said to use hydros, lortabs, norcos, they are all class III drugs that CAN be called in. NO oxy though which includes percocets. God bless.

i learn something new everyday. Thank you sir!

**3furrykids** · 09-01-2010, 12:33 PM

ok....with the paraplegia ....hot baths .....just gettig into it.....is gonna be tough. Not easy under the best of circumstances.

Right now I am just angry that no one over the last x no of years stopped me...... I know its
mostly my own fault but I was really ill ad I trusted them too.

I am a bit embarrased to call the doc in CA...but I will...Can w/d itself cause seizures?

**3furrykids** · 09-01-2010, 12:45 PM

Just left a message for the doc in CA. It is only 10:30 in the am there.....I will keep you posted. I am sorry too be so whiney.....Am I horrible because I don't think I can make it thru w/d...? I hear excercise is good. That is so hard- very limited options being in a w/c.-on a good day.....I have a new respect for anyone who has done this succesfully and I am only day 2 of symptoms.
I have faith in God but I am afraid He is angry that I got myself into this mess.

**yezdegerd** · 09-01-2010, 12:53 PM

You're not being whiny, getting off that stuff is a hard road, but you have options and support, you'll be fine!

**Robert_325** · 09-01-2010, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by 3furrykids

Just left a message for the doc in CA. It is only 10:30 in the am there.....I will keep you posted. I am sorry too be so whiney.....Am I horrible because I don't think I can make it thru w/d...? I hear excercise is good. That is so hard- very limited options being in a w/c.-on a good day.....I have a new respect for anyone who has done this succesfully and I am only day 2 of symptoms.
I have faith in God but I am afraid He is angry that I got myself into this mess.

That dr in CA is the one who had you on this medication, now you're on the other side of the nation and without any meds. He knows what you're going through once you explain. Don't be embarrassed. Talk to the dr's nurse if necessary but make it plain what kind of situation you are in.

They should not have any problem with calling you in a script for hydrocodone. I would ask him for Hydrodone ES (extra strength) 7.5mg or better even would be (Hydrocodone) Lortab 10/500. Try to get a month's worth in case you have any conflicts so you don't have to call him back again. Stay on this, you have nothing to be embarrassed about.

Hope this helps. God bless.

**3furrykids** · 09-01-2010, 03:22 PM

No word from Dr. yet.....pain kicking in. I don't know what's withdrawal and what is real!!!! I tm most afraid of the depression I hear will come. Any tips on the depresssion if I don't get what I need from doc?

**Robert_325** · 09-01-2010, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by 3furrykids

No word from Dr. yet.....pain kicking in. I don't know what's withdrawal and what is real!!!! I tm most afraid of the depression I hear will come. Any tips on the depresssion if I don't get what I need from doc?

Keep calling until they talk to you. At least the nurse needs to talk. This is a bunch of nonsense. You'll make it through the night, though uncomfortable, but the goofy dr should take care of you. God bless.

**3furrykids** · 09-01-2010, 04:16 PM

God Bless my husband....He is home from work....going to the store and just pulled out a lollipop he had hidden for when I looked bad but he says it is THE last one.....I will take half now....half later. Just spoke to doc office again.......they promised to call by the end of their day....8 pm my time. Thanks for bring soo good to me today Robert.

**3furrykids** · 09-01-2010, 04:38 PM

Another question.... I am having a bit of a change of heart....How long woould a suboxone process take? If I call around tomorrow, do you think I would find someone to get me in quickly?

**yezdegerd** · 09-01-2010, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by 3furrykids

Another question.... I am having a bit of a change of heart....How long woould a suboxone process take? If I call around tomorrow, do you think I would find someone to get me in quickly?

There are [B]A LOT[B] of suboxone doctors, being a cash deal make sure to call around to as many as you can, but most will get you in same day, easy money for them. Get you hooked then charge you to get you off

**3furrykids** · 09-01-2010, 05:10 PM

Anybody still here?

**3furrykids** · 09-01-2010, 05:12 PM

So you are not a fan of suboxone?

**3furrykids** · 09-01-2010, 05:49 PM

Robert......

Doc called back. They were compassionate and called in a month Norco/Lortab. They were also compassionate in the way they spoke to me.......Very kind.

My husband has a federal job and fantastic benefits- when they kick in!!! - it DOES cover substance abuse -both in and outpatient.I still can't believe this is happened to me. I feel stupid that I didn't see that I was addicted.

With all my health issues, I just don't think I can de doo wd by myself.....Thanks for all you have done today......

3furrykids

**Robert_325** · 09-01-2010, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by 3furrykids

Robert......

Doc called back. They were compassionate and called in a month Norco/Lortab. They were also compassionate in the way they spoke to me.......Very kind.

My husband has a federal job and fantastic benefits- when they kick in!!! - it DOES cover substance abuse -both in and outpatient.I still can't believe this is happened to me. I feel stupid that I didn't see that I was addicted.

With all my health issues, I just don't think I can de doo wd by myself.....Thanks for all you have done today......

3furrykids

See???

I told you they would help you. Now decide if you want to continue or if you want to get clean and reassess your pain.

After all the time on fentanyl there is no doubt in my mind that you would find that your pain is MUCH less without the pain meds.

I can help you with using the subs properly. Relax tonight and let me know what you think. I'm very happy this all worked out. It's amazing how God looks out for us when we really have faith. God bless.

**3furrykids** · 09-02-2010, 02:27 AM

It is 3:30 am and I have taken- since about 8 pm last night- 2 Lortab and I don't feel great. Robert, how would you expect me to be feeling? Should the Lortab take care of all of it or would you expect some symptoms?

**Robert_325** · 09-02-2010, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by 3furrykids

It is 3:30 am and I have taken- since about 8 pm last night- 2 Lortab and I don't feel great. Robert, how would you expect me to be feeling? Should the Lortab take care of all of it or would you expect some symptoms?

In your post last night you said that the dr sent you norcos. Now you're mentioning lortab. They are both 10mg of hydrocodone but the norco has 325mg of acetaminophen and the lortab has 500mg of acetaminophen. Even though the acetaminophien is just tylenol it makes the hydrocodone stronger when mixed in with them. Lortabs have more of a "punch" to them than norcos. So look on the bottle and see if it says 10/325 or 10/500.

Regardless you're accumsomed to fentanyl which is one of the strongest painkillers there is. Neither will be equal to that. I was just trying to tell you the strongest medication the dr could legally call in for you due to the way they are scheduled by the DEA as class II or class III narcotics. Class III drugs can be called in and hydrocodone like you received fall in that class.

You're probably still going to feel a little uncomfortable but NOTHING likie it would have been had you been without anything. Which pills did he send you? God bless.

**3furrykids** · 09-02-2010, 09:01 AM

It's Norco.....Until you pointed it out, I thought it was one and the same.......I don't know why they chose one over the other. Did not even realize til now that there is a difference.. What if I just take an extra tylenol? Would that help? I can't tell if the pain I feel is real or caused by w/d. Once, I got up and in the shower, I felt better.

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