MADE IT THROUGH WITHDRAWAL TO SUBOXONE ?for the experts

[magsj]

Hi -

Thanks all of you who responded to my rather pathetic plea for help. I was so scared.

Hi Everyone,

I'm stilll here. I'll make this short. I was taking Methadone 20mg and 8 Norco a day. Stopped meth 7 days ago and was just taking the Norco but increased the dose rather substantially to make up for lack of meth. I was taking about 15 Norco a day (yeah I know too much) and stopped on 3/25 (Wed) at 10:30 a.m. I don't know how but I DID MAKE IT thru the 24 hour w/d as instructed by my M.D. By the time I got the suboxone onboard it had been about 26 hours. Took my first dose today 3/26 at 12:30, ROBERT OR MELINDA OR ANYONE ELSE -as you pointed out my doctor had me take 2mg at a time. It is now 6:00 p.m. I have taken 10mg all together. I don't want to take any higher but my legs are still kind of bad, MUCH BETTER but still hurting. Do you guys think it is worth it to cut another 2mg sliver off and take it? I WILL NOT go higher than 12 mg. Do you start out at a little higher dose initially after w/d?

Anyway, I would appreciate your input. I didn't write because I was just toooooo sick, yeah I know I'm a wimp. But I made it! WITH the help of my great husband...big guy but very tender when the s**t hits the fan. I HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO THANK HIM ENOUGH FOR BEING THERE!

I'll write more later and look for anyone else that needs an ear. I'm just worn out right now.

Mags

[melinda7.5]

Hi -

Thanks all of you who responded to my rather pathetic plea for help. I was so scared.

Hi Everyone,

I'm stilll here. I'll make this short. I was taking Methadone 20mg and 8 Norco a day. Stopped meth 7 days ago and was just taking the Norco but increased the dose rather substantially to make up for lack of meth. I was taking about 15 Norco a day (yeah I know too much) and stopped on 3/25 (Wed) at 10:30 a.m. I don't know how but I DID MAKE IT thru the 24 hour w/d as instructed by my M.D. By the time I got the suboxone onboard it had been about 26 hours. Took my first dose today 3/26 at 12:30, ROBERT OR MELINDA OR ANYONE ELSE -as you pointed out my doctor had me take 2mg at a time. It is now 6:00 p.m. I have taken 10mg all together. I don't want to take any higher but my legs are still kind of bad, MUCH BETTER but still hurting. Do you guys think it is worth it to cut another 2mg sliver off and take it? I WILL NOT go higher than 12 mg. Do you start out at a little higher dose initially after w/d?

Anyway, I would appreciate your input. I didn't write because I was just toooooo sick, yeah I know I'm a wimp. But I made it! WITH the help of my great husband...big guy but very tender when the s**t hits the fan. I HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO THANK HIM ENOUGH FOR BEING THERE!

I'll write more later and look for anyone else that needs an ear. I'm just worn out right now.

Mags

Im talking to Robert right now he said you can take two more mg today.
Robert said this is the same way he stableised...
Ill be back in a bit with more instructions
Melinda

[musicman48]

Hi -

Thanks all of you who responded to my rather pathetic plea for help. I was so scared.

Hi Everyone,

I'm stilll here. I'll make this short. I was taking Methadone 20mg and 8 Norco a day. Stopped meth 7 days ago and was just taking the Norco but increased the dose rather substantially to make up for lack of meth. I was taking about 15 Norco a day (yeah I know too much) and stopped on 3/25 (Wed) at 10:30 a.m. I don't know how but I DID MAKE IT thru the 24 hour w/d as instructed by my M.D. By the time I got the suboxone onboard it had been about 26 hours. Took my first dose today 3/26 at 12:30, ROBERT OR MELINDA OR ANYONE ELSE -as you pointed out my doctor had me take 2mg at a time. It is now 6:00 p.m. I have taken 10mg all together. I don't want to take any higher but my legs are still kind of bad, MUCH BETTER but still hurting. Do you guys think it is worth it to cut another 2mg sliver off and take it? I WILL NOT go higher than 12 mg. Do you start out at a little higher dose initially after w/d?

Anyway, I would appreciate your input. I didn't write because I was just toooooo sick, yeah I know I'm a wimp. But I made it! WITH the help of my great husband...big guy but very tender when the s**t hits the fan. I HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO THANK HIM ENOUGH FOR BEING THERE!

I'll write more later and look for anyone else that needs an ear. I'm just worn out right now.

Mags

You will be fine if you need 12mg the first few days. As soon as you are able you should split your dose in to two doses.12mg would = 6mg 2 x day.It will make it easier to taper off when the time comes.Good luck MM

[melinda7.5]

Musicman....you are the MAN...
that is exactly what Robert said...

magsj

DAY 2
your going to take 2 doses 6mg in the morning and 6mg in the late afternoon.
12 mg total for the day...

DAY 3
6mg twice a day same as day two...
12 mg total for the day....

DAY 4
4 mg twice a day...
8 mg total for the day...

please check in and let us know how you are doing...either Musicman or Robert will help...I will translate for Robert...
Talk to you in the morning...

Melinda

[musicman48]

Musicman....you are the MAN...
that is exactly what Robert said...

magsj

DAY 2
your going to take 2 doses 6mg in the morning and 6mg in the late afternoon.
12 mg total for the day...

DAY 3
6mg twice a day same as day two...
12 mg total for the day....

DAY 4
4 mg twice a day...
8 mg total for the day...

please check in and let us know how you are doing...either Musicman or Robert will help...I will translate for Robert...
Talk to you in the morning...

Melinda

Melinda,I had a good teacher ! My road gig was canceled this week so I will be in and out this weekend.Is Robert getting any closer to getting back online?

[Lost83]

Just sending thoughts your way! Hope your induction is going smoothly, all sounds well to me.

[melinda7.5]

Melinda,I had a good teacher ! My road gig was canceled this week so I will be in and out this weekend.Is Robert getting any closer to getting back online?

Hi Musicman
comcast is there this morning...he told them they are going to buy him a new computer for messing his up...LOL...Im glad im not the comcast guys ...LOL
talk to you later, Melinda

[magsj]

Hi Guys-

First, thanks so much Melinda, Musicman, Lost83, Robert etc. Yesterday I did take 12mg altogether. The problem is the f*****g back pain. I got addicted initially from just being depressed, didn't care WHAT it took at that point. I tapered off Norco twice always going back to it because of the persistent back pain. There is nothing structurally wrong with my back (MRI, etc). I don't know if it is just continuation of withdrawal or what. This is how I ended up on Methadone and Norco. Went to a pain management dr. and was put on the meth....ugh. The farthest out I have ever gotten after withdrawing is 3 weeks before going back for the "back pain". The pain is real, but I am sure I need to give it much more time away from opiates to evaluate it honestly. Anybody have the continued back pain?

Anyway, enough drivvle (sp?). I took 8mg this morning (before I read you replies) and I will take 4mg late this afternoon as you said. I will follow your instructions.

I don't know but you guys out there that have gone through withdrawal for days on end from higher usage I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DID IT, YOUR STRONGER THAN I AM. I quite literally could not have gone another hour when I took the Suboxone. If I ever had to go back to taking opiates it would have to be lifetime decision for me, never again. Maybe the memory is just toooo fresh in my mind.

Thanks again guys. Robert I hope Comcast gets you all set up! We miss you, but Melinda and Musicman have been doing a great job keeping everybody going.

I'll check back later.

with gratitude,
mags

[magsj]

Hi Guys and Gals-

About 30 min after taking the morning 8mg of sub my back pain is better, whoooo thank goodness. I highly suspect it originates from withdrawal.

Anyway, enough. I am going to read some posts today and see if I can be of any help to SOMEONE ELSE for a change.

Mags

[FreedomForMe]

Hi Mags,

Just thought I would give u a word of encouragement, In short I was addicted to vicodin 10 to 12 a day 10/325 and 7.5/750 for over 5 years I finally decided (plus I ran out and was sick and tired of paying over 500 dollars a month on them) Mar 10 it was time, I went cold turkey I have no health ins so going to a doc was out of the question, anyway had a relapse for 5 days after a week of being clean but now I am on day 6 and feel like a million bucks (ok maybe a thousand ) what I wanted to say is that my pain (had back surgery and 5 knee operations in the last 10 yrs including a knee replacement a yr ago in jan)is almost gone without taking the vicodin it is the weirdest thing I cannot believe that the painkillers that are suppose to help us actually was making me hurt more. Enough of me best of luck and please stick with the board it is always good to read other peoples experiences.

Julie

[magsj]

Freedom (julie):

Hi, thanks for the note! Hadn't heard from you since my pathetic tirade about no one paying attention to my post...ugh.

Yes, I'm an RN and I have heard about pain medication actually creating it's own pain syndrome. I can't remember the exact physiologic explanation but it is a phenomenon that I have read about. Sounds like you have had your share of pain. I haven't had any surgery, etc. and can't imagine managing the pain. So you are on day 6 opiate-free. Wow your the GIRL! Congrates. I'm on suboxone and not even there yet, though I hope to be soon. I do have insurance but it's ********py, so much of what I do I have to pay for out of pocket.......getting tough. Do you have a support base - husband, friends, this site?
I'm glad you are doing well now and your pain is better.

Keep in touch,
mags

[FreedomForMe]

Hi Mags,

My support is here I am afraid that if I tell anyone that when it comes time to get my other knee replaced no one will want me to take the drugs for pain then and I will deal with that then for now I just keep reading the boards and enjoying not having to hide the pills or when i take them. I am off to work which by the way i work 6 days a week and still had to go to work when I was withdrawing that goodness for hylands flu remedies and the vitamins in the Thomas Recipe I really think they helped.

Have a great day

Julie

[melinda7.5]

Hi Mags,

My support is here I am afraid that if I tell anyone that when it comes time to get my other knee replaced no one will want me to take the drugs for pain then and I will deal with that then for now I just keep reading the boards and enjoying not having to hide the pills or when i take them. I am off to work which by the way i work 6 days a week and still had to go to work when I was withdrawing that goodness for hylands flu remedies and the vitamins in the Thomas Recipe I really think they helped.

Have a great day

Julie

Freedom
we are all proud of you ...you have really worked hard at this....
Im so glad your feeling better...
Talk to you soon, Melinda

[magsj]

Well it is day 3 in the morning. I got your schedule Melinda that Robert gave you and thank you. Ugh, the problem is yesterday I started having bad back pain; it feels like bad muscle spasms. I was taking the 12mg of sub split in two as suggested. The pain go so bad I ended up taking 4 more mg which equals 16mg. What I learned from that is that the w/d symptoms are gone at 12mg and taking 16mg made no difference at all for the back pain. So, there is no reason to take 16mg. Today I am going back to the 12mg. I have 6mg in my mouth as we speak, yuck. So, I blew the schedule yesterday, but will get back on track today. I guess the problem is patience.

I'm kind of rambling today...sorry, my emotions are kind of all over the place right now and my thinking is a bit fragmented.

I hope everyone else is doing okay? I know helz and musicman are struggling terrribly right now. I really am not sure how they are doing it but they are. I'm thinking of you guys. I posted a note on your "sub withdrawal thread".

Robert, Melinda, Freedom, etc. thanks for touching base. Hope Robert's computer gets straightened out soon, although maybe it's a break for him.

I'll check in later.

mags

[Robert_325]

Well it is day 3 in the morning. I got your schedule Melinda that Robert gave you and thank you. Ugh, the problem is yesterday I started having bad back pain; it feels like bad muscle spasms. I was taking the 12mg of sub split in two as suggested. The pain go so bad I ended up taking 4 more mg which equals 16mg. What I learned from that is that the w/d symptoms are gone at 12mg and taking 16mg made no difference at all for the back pain. So, there is no reason to take 16mg. Today I am going back to the 12mg. I have 6mg in my mouth as we speak, yuck. So, I blew the schedule yesterday, but will get back on track today. I guess the problem is patience.

I'm kind of rambling today...sorry, my emotions are kind of all over the place right now and my thinking is a bit fragmented.

I hope everyone else is doing okay? I know helz and musicman are struggling terrribly right now. I really am not sure how they are doing it but they are. I'm thinking of you guys. I posted a note on your "sub withdrawal thread".

Robert, Melinda, Freedom, etc. thanks for touching base. Hope Robert's computer gets straightened out soon, although maybe it's a break for him.

I'll check in later.

mags

I am back online again. Let me know tomorrow (sunday) how you're doing. No way you need to be at 16mg when 12mg is working.

The few times that buprenorphine is used for pain it's used in VERY small doses. I know some reputable drs who RX it for chronic pain that is moderate in 1-2mg doses. That is all, not any 12 or 16mg.

Buprenorphine is just not much of a pain med if the pain is really bad. We can talk more Sunday about this when I come in from church. God bless.

[magsj]

Glad to see you back online Robert!

I'm at 12mg today. Took first dose 3/26 (Thursday) at 12:30 p.m., (No. Calif. Time) so today is actually day two? I am writing this Saturday evening. I am out of the 16mg panic mode and am back to 12mg today, split in two.

I CANNOT TELL YOU HOW MUCH CLARITY I HAVE. MY GOD I HAVE BEEN LIVING IN A COMA FOR A LONG TIME! On one hand I am extremely happy to have even gotten this far, on the other hand the emotions pouring out are somewhat scary. Ugh, the GUILT NOW, that I was living like that and my husband was living with ME like that is overwhelming. I FEEL SOOO DIFFERENT NOW and I am still taking suboxone. I honestly feel like I just came out of a huge cloud. My rational brain tells me not to dwell on the guilt and shame and to look forward to the future, but my emotions tend to dwell on the guilt and sadness of the situation. At one time I was a very vibrant person, what the h** happened? Okay, enough verbal vomitus.

I am having severe muscle spasms in my back, the pain is covered up somewhat but it feels like the pain is about to explode and become uncontrollable at any minute, which scares me to death because I will not go backwards. My back feels like it is rigid, kinda like a board, hard to describe. My question is: Is this part of w/d as I suspect. Will it get better with time? I should be able to answer these questions myself due to my occupation, but when it comes to oneself, fear rears it ugly head and clouds our thinking I think.

Tomorrow is day three as best I can figure so I will stick to the 6mg am and 6 mg pm and Monday go to 4mg am and 4mg pm as Melinda instructed. Don't worry guys, I normally don't ramble this much and just will get to the point, LIFE is just toooo new and raw for me right now.

Maggie

[Robert_325]

Do the 6mg twice daily and then drop to 4mg as suggested. Let me know how you're doing. I can advise you with any symptoms you may have regarding w/d. The only thing I have trouble with are your existing health conditions. I don't have your medical file to look at. I don't know what to say about your pain issues until after you've been acclimated to the suboxone properly. Then I may have some ideas. Stay in touch. God bless.

[magsj]

Do the 6mg twice daily and then drop to 4mg as suggested. Let me know how you're doing. I can advise you with any symptoms you may have regarding w/d. The only thing I have trouble with are your existing health conditions. I don't have your medical file to look at. I don't know what to say about your pain issues until after you've been acclimated to the suboxone properly. Then I may have some ideas. Stay in touch. God bless.

Hi guys-

Trying to keep in touch. I have a question for Robert, Melinda, Musicman. Per Robert's schedule I am to decrease the suboxone 12mg to 8mg today (4mg and 4mg). This is day #4. It's early morning here and upon waking this is the first day I really feel stable, back pain is decreased this morning so far. I think I sent Robert an email with this question, but no sure it was sent successfully. Should i go ahead and decrease to 8mg today or do you think I should stay at current 12mg for one more day. I'll do what you recommend. I'll try to wait until I hear from someone.

Melinda-sound like you work too much girl, 6 days a week? yeee gads! How are you doing Musicman? I hope things are going well!

I'll check in later.

Thank you everyone.

Maggie

[Robert_325]

Go ahead and start at the new dose. Relax. This will all work out fine. You will probably find that after you have some time clean and off your pain meds that your pain will actually improve. Addiction is painful in itself. This usually happens with the majority of people who get clean trust me. God bless.

[musicman48]

Hi guys-

Trying to keep in touch. I have a question for Robert, Melinda, Musicman. Per Robert's schedule I am to decrease the suboxone 12mg to 8mg today (4mg and 4mg). This is day #4. It's early morning here and upon waking this is the first day I really feel stable, back pain is decreased this morning so far. I think I sent Robert an email with this question, but no sure it was sent successfully. Should i go ahead and decrease to 8mg today or do you think I should stay at current 12mg for one more day. I'll do what you recommend. I'll try to wait until I hear from someone.

Melinda-sound like you work too much girl, 6 days a week? yeee gads! How are you doing Musicman? I hope things are going well!

I'll check in later.

Thank you everyone.

Maggie

Hi Maggie.I am doing great.Thanks for asking.Glad you woke up feeling somewhat normal.This new taper should not be a problem for you. I am watching your progress.Sounds like you are doing fine ! MM

[magsj]

Go ahead and start at the new dose. Relax. This will all work out fine. You will probably find that after you have some time clean and off your pain meds that your pain will actually improve. Addiction is painful in itself. This usually happens with the majority of people who get clean trust me. God bless.

Thanks Robert, I'll decrease to 8mg today. Yeah well, "relax" is not in my genes....hehehe.

Take care,
mags

[magsj]

Hey-

Feeling find today (day 4). Decreased to 8mg (4 and 4) as Robert ordered (hehehe, or shall I say suggested).

My question now is:

How long do I stay at 8mg.

What is the schedule from here?

I had to laugh at Robert's response to someone today "go to the doctor, nod yes or no appropriately and keep you mouth shut about us" HA! This is exactly what I have done and plan to do.

I'll check in tomorrow.

mags

[Robert_325]

Hey-

Feeling find today (day 4). Decreased to 8mg (4 and 4) as Robert ordered (hehehe, or shall I say suggested).

My question now is:

How long do I stay at 8mg.

What is the schedule from here?

I had to laugh at Robert's response to someone today "go to the doctor, nod yes or no appropriately and keep you mouth shut about us" HA! This is exactly what I have done and plan to do.

I'll check in tomorrow.

mags

Stay at 8mg for about ten days to two weeks. Then we will determine if you're ready to taper down again. You want to give your brain a little time to heal so you can get some endorphines produced naturally. You also need to get past the worst of the original opiate detox and with what you were taking it could take a little while. Methadone lingers a long time. After a little time then you'll start the standard taper of 25% of the total daily dose of suboxone every four days. Just keep me posted how you're doing over the next week. We'll get you clean I promise you. I won't abandon you. You'll have to give up on me to lose. God bless.

[ddosher]

Stay at 8mg for about ten days to two weeks. Then we will determine if you're ready to taper down again. You want to give your brain a little time to heal so you can get some endorphines produced naturally. You also need to get past the worst of the original opiate detox and with what you were taking it could take a little while. Methadone lingers a long time. After a little time then you'll start the standard taper of 25% of the total daily dose of suboxone every four days. Just keep me posted how you're doing over the next week. We'll get you clean I promise you. I won't abandon you. You'll have to give up on me to lose. God bless.

Robert:

I really wish that I had done my homework before I jumped off at 8mgs. I hope you do understand why at 21 days I would be reluctant to go back on. I certainly would never recommend my way to anyone...it has just been a series of financial circumstances that I am unable to just go back to the Dr. at $100.00 a crack plus the cost of meds. I spoke to the Company that makes Suboxone and they told me that each Dr. was allowed to put 2 patients in a program to get the drug for free. My Dr. knows of my struggles but had never mentioned that to me. There must be others that he thinks are worse off. I will be here to help convince those that they should never put themselves through this if at all possible. Like I said, there were many times in this last 21 days that I would have done anything to feel better but it was always a financial thing. At this point I see no point because I do believe that I have gotton through the absolute worst and it is just a matter of time before me brain feels better. Thank you Robert for being here. You are agood man.

[melinda7.5]

Hi guys-

Trying to keep in touch. I have a question for Robert, Melinda, Musicman. Per Robert's schedule I am to decrease the suboxone 12mg to 8mg today (4mg and 4mg). This is day #4. It's early morning here and upon waking this is the first day I really feel stable, back pain is decreased this morning so far. I think I sent Robert an email with this question, but no sure it was sent successfully. Should i go ahead and decrease to 8mg today or do you think I should stay at current 12mg for one more day. I'll do what you recommend. I'll try to wait until I hear from someone.

Melinda-sound like you work too much girl, 6 days a week? yeee gads! How are you doing Musicman? I hope things are going well!

I'll check in later.

Thank you everyone.

Maggie

Hi mags
I just wanted to say Hi ... I will be back wednesday night to see how you are doing ...
would everyone see how guitarman is doing till I get back...I think he might need some cheering on...
Talk to you later, Melinda

[magsj]

Hi mags
I just wanted to say Hi ... I will be back wednesday night to see how you are doing ...
would everyone see how guitarman is doing till I get back...I think he might need some cheering on...
Talk to you later, Melinda

Is guitarman musicman?????

mags

[Lost83]

Hi Mags,

I am glad you are stable and feeling well! Good job!

Lost

P.S. guitarman is not musicman.

[magsj]

Thanks for checkin in Lost. Hope things are well with you

Really nothing new to report here, still hangin in there at 8mg of sub. Battled back pain/spasm today much of the day. Frustrating because now that I have such clarity there are things I want to do but can't....ugh, but I am afraid this is going to be the case for months to come. I am just hoping that in time, after getting off the suboxone, that the back issues with get better. Don't know if it's w/d or ? Time will tell I guess.

Kinda down today.......

Hope everyone is well. Hang in there Helz, we both have a long way to go but we'll get there together okay?

Maggie

[Robert_325]

Thanks for checkin in Lost. Hope things are well with you

Really nothing new to report here, still hangin in there at 8mg of sub. Battled back pain/spasm today much of the day. Frustrating because now that I have such clarity there are things I want to do but can't....ugh, but I am afraid this is going to be the case for months to come. I am just hoping that in time, after getting off the suboxone, that the back issues with get better. Don't know if it's w/d or ? Time will tell I guess.

Kinda down today.......

Hope everyone is well. Hang in there Helz, we both have a long way to go but we'll get there together okay?

Maggie

Maggie ... You'll start getting better now that you're at 8mg. Give yourself a little time to heal. Remember this is a process and not an event. You're in a serious detox right now. The subs are keeping you from feeling it all but your body is going through major trauma from the methadone even though you had it at a reasonable dose. That is a tough detox. You understand that as a nurse.

I have dealt with back pain my entire life. I have had congenital scoliosis problems since birth and started developing lots of deterioration in my lower back from that and all the impact and stress of high impact sports like football, racquetball comptetitively my entire life, etc. I also have RA so have I've had serious joint pain for a long time, my whole life basically.

I have had five knee operations, a foot and an elbow operation, lots of ortho ops over the years. I also have serious Raynaud's Phenomenon secondary to the RA. I know legitimate pain. It's what really got me started on all the pain meds by prescriptions. Plus all the pain obviously caused stress hence all the benzo scripts for 25 years. I really allowed it to get the best of me for a long time.

I think that if you are like me and almost everyone else who gets clean from opiates as you get totally clean and have all the meds out of your system for a while your body will start naturally producing the endorphines again and you will likely feel better. I know you understand the pharmacology part of this being an RN. Just hope this works for you like it does for most of us.

I bet your pain will at least be more tolerable as mine is today. I take no narcotics ever and wouldn't unles it was for surgery or an emergency. I still have the autoimmune diseases like Raynauds, RA, as none of this just goes away. But I can deal with my pain today with things like Ibuprofen or Naproxen, moderate exercise, but I haven't had any opiates in a long time now. I make it just fine and it will probably happen for you too at least it will improve. Hang in there. God bless.

[magsj]

Maggie ... You'll start getting better now that you're at 8mg. Give yourself a little time to heal. Remember this is a process and not an event. You're in a serious detox right now. The subs are keeping you from feeling it all but your body is going through major trauma from the methadone even though you had it at a reasonable dose. That is a tough detox. You understand that as a nurse.

I have dealt with back pain my entire life. I have had congenital scoliosis problems since birth and started developing lots of deterioration in my lower back from that and all the impact and stress of high impact sports like football, racquetball comptetitively my entire life, etc. I also have RA so have I've had serious joint pain for a long time, my whole life basically.

I have had five knee operations, a foot and an elbow operation, lots of ortho ops over the years. I also have serious Raynaud's Phenomenon secondary to the RA. I know legitimate pain. It's what really got me started on all the pain meds by prescriptions. Plus all the pain obviously caused stress hence all the benzo scripts for 25 years. I really allowed it to get the best of me for a long time.

I think that if you are like me and almost everyone else who gets clean from opiates as you get totally clean and have all the meds out of your system for a while your body will start naturally producing the endorphines again and you will likely feel better. I know you understand the pharmacology part of this being an RN. Just hope this works for you like it does for most of us.

I bet your pain will at least be more tolerable as mine is today. I take no narcotics ever and wouldn't unles it was for surgery or an emergency. I still have the autoimmune diseases like Raynauds, RA, as none of this just goes away. But I can deal with my pain today with things like Ibuprofen or Naproxen, moderate exercise, but I haven't had any opiates in a long time now. I make it just fine and it will probably happen for you too at least it will improve. Hang in there. God bless.

Robert-

Ugh! I am quite familiar with Raynaud's Syndrome and RA. My first job was as a nurse in a dermatology practice. This is NOT a fun disease to deal with. Kudos to you for being able to handle this (particularly RA) without opiates. Not to mention your ortho surgeries!

I really AM fortunate, I have had no major surgeries, no broken bones and structurally my back is fine. My battle has been depression and hypothyroidism that has proved hard to manage; run the gamet of depression treatment, 9 ECT treatments (years ago), a plethora of anti-depressants, etc. Now I just take Cymbalta. The depression has gotten much better since stopping Methadone 2 week ago and the Norco. I knew this was a no-win situation, opiates and depression of course do not mix. I also know that opiates can cause their own pain-syndrome and I do have hope that things will calm down in time. One thing I would like to point out is that I haven't worked in 5 years; disability for the depression. I could have never done my job diligently while taking opiates and I am glad I never had to. I would love to go back to work part-time as soon as I feel competent to do so.

Thanks for reminding me that my body is detoxing underneath the sub. My mind is clear and I want to do things, but I am still a bit worn out.

Your a great cheerleader for the cause Robert. Thanks for your words of wisdom.

Hi to everyone else out there. How goes it Helz? Musicman? Freedom? Hope every one is doing well.

mags