[8monthslater]

Originally Posted by auntybiotic

I am doing a survey for my own knowledge. Please let me know how many have movement disorders, including restless legs during or after lexapro use. How long were you on lexapro and what dose of lexapro. Exactly how did you taper, what % over what period. Has the disorder continued or did the movement disorder go away. Please try and describe when the movement disorder began and what exactly happens.Thanks for any input, I am researching this aspect of lexapro damage.

Lecithin, as directed on the bottle, was recommended by Dr. Breggins in his book to help prevent the movement disorder.

I noticed my legs or body would twitch while I was taking Lex. I took it for 4 months and quit cold turkey. I continued to twitch for a while afterward, but now I don't do it anymore. I have been off for almost 1 year. I don't recall when I quit twitching though. I never had it to an extreme.

I just took my first dose of Rescue Remedy about 20 minutes ago. I'll report back and let you know how it works for me. So far, so good though. I am feeling amazingly calm.

[ivysphotomom]

for the first time since last Oct. She was the one who put me on the lexapro. She is also a very holistic MD. So she's always open to what I have to say...

I had to quickly update her on the lex story. The 20mg for 3 days last Aug., the 15mg for a month, 10mg for 3 months, 5mg for 3 days then stopped.

Then I told her that Sunday, for the heck of it, I decided to take a few hits of the Bach Rescue Remedy and Sweet Chestnut, I bought months ago, but hadn't been using. I started to feel a 'lifting' of the anxiety and dread that have been with me for months! Now I'm not sure if it's the flower essences, or the fact that I decided to bump up from 5mg of lexapro a few days ago, which I reinstated 3 months ago, up to 10mg, which is the dosage I had been on the longest last fall. Maybe both?

I have 20mg tablet I've been breaking into halves, or quarters. So I asked her for a script for 10mg tablets, so I can break those into quarters, to slowly taper down from 10mg. Then once I get below 5mg/day, I'll ask for the liquid.

She also renewed my xanax prescription. I did the math today. In 41 days, I took 55 .25mg xanax tablets. That's a total of about one and a third .25/day. Which isn't bad, IMHO. I take either a half or whole .25 in the morning, which is always when my anxiety is at it's worst. Then maybe another half of one if I have a meeting later in the day, etc. It has really helped me lately. I never took it daily, until going through all this ******************** with lexapro!

I asked her about the fibromyalgia type symptoms. She said that is usually a reaction to toxins in the body. She recommended green products, such as spirulina, or wheat grass, to help with that. Also, exercising! Moving the body around! Getting things flowing! Also, milk thistle, which I take every night.

I told her about these boards. She was very open to everything I said. Re: the flower remedies, she was very happy I was taking them. She said that for people like myself, who are somewhat sensitive (to meds) sometimes the very subtle energies from remedies like this are the perfect solution!

She said, if taking nortribilin (sp?) twice a month or so ago made me feel like a zombie, don't take it. And also, to stay away from the remeron (sp?) another psychiatrist had suggested.

I'm seeing an acupuncturist this Thursday, and saw a massage therapist yesterday. And I see my psychologist, who is using EMDR, every Thursday.

Sleep is still difficult. I have a hard time waking up, after feeling like I'm 'half' sleeping, then am really tired most of the day. Weird. My feeling is I'm not entering deep sleep. This started with the lexapro. Also, I've got those body twitches too! They're not obvious to others, but sometimes a shoulder, or leg part moves! Another weird, annoying thing. And often, a weird tickle/gag feeling in my throat. And my hands are often really shaky. Not fun either. But, no brain zaps or headaches, thank goodness.

I think it was Julia, who wrote to me on the other page about my friend's passing? It was a he. He was like my father and mentor and best friend. I totally know and understand he's fine, and relaxing, and enjoying a much needed break after a very hard worked life. And I do try to communicate with him. It's just his death occurred at a very vulnerable time in my life. And it was sudden. We were each other's closest confidantes. Each other's emotional, spiritual and intellectual support system. Kind of like soul mates. On top of my mother's sudden death 17 yrs ago (suicide) and my 32 yr old brother's death after 2 weeks in a coma after a heart attack, it's been tough.

I know a lot of people loose loved ones. We all do. But my psychologist has pointed out that my mother wasn't really emotionally present in my life, so as a child, I grew up without the security and love, I needed, to feel safe and secure, and worthy of good things. I guess I've got a process to go through, to try and heal on lots of levels. I'm just trying to be patient. Add on top of that, all the medication havoc, it's sometimes very scary and overwhelming. I'm sure you can all relate.

In terms of work (taking it easy) - I've decided this year, I'm not shooting any weddings. I'm still booking them, but I'm sending in a team of my 2 best photographers, who shoot like I do. I'll still do all the post-production work and album designs. I'm only shooting 1 hr family sessions. I've realized, after 3 yrs of shooting 30 weddings a year, I'm not seeing my 4 kids much on the weekends! Also, I just needed to do as much as I can to relieve as much stress as possible. And, I hired a studio assistant, to help me keep up with my post-production work. So I'm not making AS MUCH money, but I'm still making some money. So out of my friend's death, came a new business model. And everyone's benefitting. The brides, as I lowered my prices a bit, my photographer/friends, who are making good money, and me, who's still making money on the back end. I really am working on all fronts to get better. Thanks for your kind words, and concern Julia.

Spiritually, I think (hope) I'm on the right track. I've been reading a lot of Sylvia Browne's books. I've started praying for the first time in years. To God, my angels, my spirit guides, anyone who wants to listen/help!!! Also, another great book, is "The Instinct to Heal", but a Dr. who used to practice in Pittsburgh, my home town. I highly recommend it.

Oh, aunty, I also suffer from IBS type of symptoms. They've made me somewhat of a social phobic, as I don't want to travel far from the bathroom! In fact, this fear of suddenly needing to use the bathroom, is what triggered my anxiety 2 Dec's ago, before photographing a wedding!!! I'll look up that PRIMAL DEFENSE supplement you mentioned. Bumping up from 5mg to 10mg of lex probably isn't helping matters much lately!

Anyhow, I highly recommend trying the Bach Flower remedies to everyone. If nothing else, the Rescue Remedy. But I am also taking Sweet Chestnut (brings optimism and peace of mind when anguish overwhelms you and you can find way out.)

Also, my Carlson Omega 3 oil, I take twice a night with dinner, has done wonders. I've been taking it for about 2 years, to bring down a slightly high C-Reactive protein level (an anti-inflammatory agent). When I've run out, I feel terrible. Glad to know it helps w/ lex stuff too!

My TSH was good (I've got Hashimotos), at 1.2. So that's good news.

Erin, feel free to count me in your little project if you want!

Oh, one last thing. And this is the main reason I logged on here, but forgot (!)....(Sorry for another long post! I just want to relay as much info as I can, in case it helps anyone else...)

Last night, my 8 yr old daughter, who has become totally obsessed with the Blues Brothers the past few weeks, after seeing some kids in her school do a skit of this song.....got my husband to take her to Goodwill Stores this weekend, to find Blues Bros clothes. Then, she figured out how to get my iMac to videotape her, and, on her own, uploaded it to her YouTube account!!!!!

I thought maybe you all would like something to smile about! Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtPpimqqUXM

Take Care all,

~Mary

[Julia77]

Originally Posted by Augusto99

Julia77, I did have these wierd nasty thoughts before lexapro but only very randomly I think pretty much like anyone. I think they only manifested when I was upset, but now when I think about or takl to certain people I get this bad thoughts about them and it makes me sick and anxious. I just hope they go away like you said. It's almost now a sense of overwhelming guilt I have now that I even thought this stuff in the first place. Any more advice you have would be awesome. Thank you so much!

Hi, first of all, relax. You are NOT going to act on those thoughts. None of the people who ever had OCD type thoughts reacted on them. People who DO nasty things do not get thoughts, they act. So, every time now when you have this type of thoughts say to yourself 'good, this is a good manifestation I am NOT going to do it.' Next, stop resisting them.Resistance is invitation of them back to your life, acceptance is the key. Once you have another dirty thought, accept it. Remember: they do not show who you are, they come and leave. They are guests.

Look into Bach essences, I am going to look into them as well. I still have occasional thoughts, but they are not upsetting me as much any more. Remember: Lexapro increased them. When I was on Lex, I used to obsess tremendeously, I even used to escape doing certain things and stayed home many times. Well...after I tapered off, they first increased ( this is what happened to you now, and then started to vanish). I still have some of them. Remember: we all do. The difference is not in whether we have dirty thoughts or not, but how we react to them. They are 'empty', they are not trying to tell you something.
Also, think about what you thought of today - things like what to eat for lunch, what to wear for Sunday night occasion, etc. Do you think those thoughts were important? No that much. Why do you think those 'dirty' thoughts are more important. They are not.

[cookie1987]

here's part of my story.

although no doctor will admit it, lexapro definately causes weight gain. i was on it for just over a year and gained almost 50 pounds in about 4 months. no matter what i did i couldn't seem to lose any weight. i actually gained more the harder i worked at it which i have recently discovered is extremely common. i'm only 20 and 5'3" but i now weigh 170, i went from a size 6 to a 12, and i have the worse case of stretch marks my doctor has ever seen. i honestly don't think i needed the lexapro in the first place so i decided to get myself off. i half-heartedly tried to wean myself, but my dosage wasn't all that high. i'm now completely off and have been for 5 days. only side-effects i've noticed are a wooshy feeling if i move around too fast (which i must admit, is actually kinda fun ) i have no idea if this is true, but i think the side-effects of quitting are relative to how much the drug was needed in the first place.

anyway, wish me luck with my weight-loss and withdrawel!!!

[cookie1987]

Originally Posted by Julia77

Hi, first of all, relax. You are NOT going to act on those thoughts. None of the people who ever had OCD type thoughts reacted on them. People who DO nasty things do not get thoughts, they act. So, every time now when you have this type of thoughts say to yourself 'good, this is a good manifestation I am NOT going to do it.' Next, stop resisting them.Resistance is invitation of them back to your life, acceptance is the key. Once you have another dirty thought, accept it. Remember: they do not show who you are, they come and leave. They are guests.

Look into Bach essences, I am going to look into them as well. I still have occasional thoughts, but they are not upsetting me as much any more. Remember: Lexapro increased them. When I was on Lex, I used to obsess tremendeously, I even used to escape doing certain things and stayed home many times. Well...after I tapered off, they first increased ( this is what happened to you now, and then started to vanish). I still have some of them. Remember: we all do. The difference is not in whether we have dirty thoughts or not, but how we react to them. They are 'empty', they are not trying to tell you something.
Also, think about what you thought of today - things like what to eat for lunch, what to wear for Sunday night occasion, etc. Do you think those thoughts were important? No that much. Why do you think those 'dirty' thoughts are more important. They are not.

I just want to say i agree completely. i never used to obsess at all, but when i was on lex i started having thoughts of severely harming people when i got upset. i also got really paranoid like thinking that not seeing a kid in one of my classes one day meant that he had been in an accident or died. i also obsessed over the possibility of losing my boyfriend in one way or another like a break-up, or a move, or even death. eventually we broke up, but we're still very close.

i learned to accept these thoughts. the ones about hurting people weren't actually causing anyone any harm so i just let them occur. i also managed to stop worrying so much about other things, though i still got pretty upset over basically nothing.

now that i'm off the lex, even though it's only been a few days, i haven't had issues with any of the more abnormal obsessions. i still have the "dirty" thoughts, but like you said, they aren't important, and they aren't harming anyone.

[jca1928]

i had posted earlyer that i'm going to start the pretaper for the road back program i'm having one of those nights ware i can;t sleep and was thinking about ware it says in chapter 14 about being off the meds for more than 7 days and being close to point of no return when going back on. so ok i went off of lexapor 5mg with a realy quick taper 18 days by my dr advice.(after being on it for ten months) was off of it for 10 days got all the realy nasty side efects. then was put on efexor xr 37mg was on that for a litle over three weeks witch i would have to say were the worst three weeks of my life. now iv'e been taking (generic) celexa 10mg for last 7 weeks or almost 7 weeks. wich all my head aches and brian zap blured vision ect are gone. just that i'm so damn tired all the time doesn't seem to matter how much sleep i get. i have to force my self to get out of bead and to work every day. i'm wondering if maby i hit the piont of no return i'm stuck to stick it out for the 12 to 18 months ive read about. though it does say in that chapter to start the pretaper any way. and that it mite take longer to see a change. wich i'm going to do. just wondering if ive got my self painted into a corner here. the other thing iwas wondering about was i remeber reading something a wile ago about turning the lex pills into liquid form to help with tapering will this work with celexa and how do you do it. i was looking for it today and didn't come across it yet. there are defintley alot of posts on here. though the road back program does say to use a compund pharmace i'm not to sure ther is one around ware i live. most are the kinds that you find at your local crocery store. so most likely i'm going to have to do the 5% cut in the doses my self. i'm sort of at that point ware ive been through so much hell that i'm realy scared to make another wrong move. i realy think at this point that if some thing hapend like when i went off the lexapro and went on to the efexor xr just couldn't take it my body is so worn out from this ********************. i realy think i would down for the count so to speek. as always thanks for reading and any help you can give AJ

[auntybiotic]

Originally Posted by jca1928

i had posted earlyer that i'm going to start the pretaper for the road back program i'm having one of those nights ware i can;t sleep and was thinking about ware it says in chapter 14 about being off the meds for more than 7 days and being close to point of no return when going back on. so ok i went off of lexapor 5mg with a realy quick taper 18 days by my dr advice.(after being on it for ten months) was off of it for 10 days got all the realy nasty side efects. then was put on efexor xr 37mg was on that for a litle over three weeks witch i would have to say were the worst three weeks of my life. now iv'e been taking (generic) celexa 10mg for last 7 weeks or almost 7 weeks. wich all my head aches and brian zap blured vision ect are gone. just that i'm so damn tired all the time doesn't seem to matter how much sleep i get. i have to force my self to get out of bead and to work every day. i'm wondering if maby i hit the piont of no return i'm stuck to stick it out for the 12 to 18 months ive read about. though it does say in that chapter to start the pretaper any way. and that it mite take longer to see a change. wich i'm going to do. just wondering if ive got my self painted into a corner here. the other thing iwas wondering about was i remeber reading something a wile ago about turning the lex pills into liquid form to help with tapering will this work with celexa and how do you do it. i was looking for it today and didn't come across it yet. there are defintley alot of posts on here. though the road back program does say to use a compund pharmace i'm not to sure ther is one around ware i live. most are the kinds that you find at your local crocery store. so most likely i'm going to have to do the 5% cut in the doses my self. i'm sort of at that point ware ive been through so much hell that i'm realy scared to make another wrong move. i realy think at this point that if some thing hapend like when i went off the lexapro and went on to the efexor xr just couldn't take it my body is so worn out from this ********************. i realy think i would down for the count so to speek. as always thanks for reading and any help you can give AJ

It is generally six weeks after being off a SSRI that you cannot reinstate. You were not off for that period. I think all the symptoms are still lexapro withdrawal. You changed to effexor and then to celexa, that would still equal lexapro withdrawal.

You can crush the celexa and mix in juice to taper. The directions are printed here several times under my posts so look up my posts and you will see the directions printed at least a dozen times.

I DO NOT recommend using a compounding pharmacy........... by FDA they are ALLOWED BY LAW a 15% fluctuation in the mixing formula so the amounts in each capsule are NOT accurate enough for lexapro tapering.


Many have switched to the liquid without any ill effects. I do think the liquid is a lot more precise then the compounding of lexapro. Check with the pharmacy and find out about the FDA allowed measuring of doses AND THE 15% VARIANCE. I got my daughter's lexapro compounded so she would not have to take the liquid overseas and I was disappointed because one is a state of withdrawl everyday due to the various amounts of lexapro in the capsules.....not something anyone would want to do on vacation!

Think about this, if you should only taper by 5% of your current dose and the compounding pharmacy is allowed a 15% margin of error...........................what does that spell?? TO ME IT SAYS DO NOT HAVE LEXAPRO COMPOUNDED.

You should NOT CUT YOUR DOSE OF CELEXA again until you feel completely well for three to four weeks after the ordeal you have put the neurotransmitters thru with quitting lexapro, then switching to effexor then to celexa. You will only take two steps backwards by speeding up the tapering process. Wait until you feel stable on the celexa, that may take a month depending on your body. I am NOT a doctor so please check with a physician before following any advice given on the internet.

aunty

[auntybiotic]

As the number of compounding pharmacies increases – there are now more than 3,000 worldwide – many are calling for greater regulation to ensure quality control and pharmacist education.

“Pharmacists advertise precise and individual dosing, [but] studies show the opposite is true, ” says U.S. FDA expert Sarah Sellers. Sellers, a pharmacist, is strongly opposed to most compounding, particularly for non-essential uses such as reflavouring and kosher formulations.

Sellers concedes that “in rare cases, a pediatric patient may require a compounded product,” but warns that because dosages may not always be precise, there’s more “potential for poisonings and sub-therapeutic dosing.

Compounded medicines are custom-prepared by pharmacies in nonstandard doses. They do not receive the same safety testing that other pharmaceuticals require before they can be sold. "YOU ARE DEPENDING ON THE QUALITY CONTROL OF ONE PERSON WHEN HE/SHE MIXES THE COMPOUNDED DRUG. IF THEY HAD A BAD DAY OR ARE DISTRACTED BY A PHONE CALL...............WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU GETTING!!!! Mnay court cases are due to improperly compounded medications."

“We have seven people including a supervisor who are trained investigators,” Work said. “We haven’t the resources to do sufficient oversight”.

The absence of regulation presents some risks to patients, FDA consultant Sellers said. “The industry is making untested, unvalidated, unapproved drugs that are not manufactured under federal standards,” she said. “These drugs are experimental, and patients need to understand that”.

“They basically told me I had to use it,” said Maureen MacNeill of Raleigh.

“It should be disclosed to patients they’re getting a compounded product,” Sellers said. “It’s really about informing consumers about the risks".

One product, purportedly a 10 mg hormone treatment, had no detectable active ingredient, while a drug used to prevent organ rejection had only 52% of the labeled drug present. Other products had too much ingredient, up to 135% of the labeled amount.

The results showed an 18% failure rate, which is demonstrative that the products are unreliable and the purported benefits of compounded drugs may not, in fact, outweigh their risk.

It is an unacceptable failure rate.
Excerpt from: Glod M. Prescription deaths bring call for checks; critics seek pharmacy oversight. The Washington Post July 3, 2000:

Mike McClave is a foreman for the CSX railroad in Virgina. If one of his workers is injured, he has to tell the federal government. If a train slips off the tracks, he files a report. And when an engineer has worked for 12 hours, he stops and rests. So when McClave’s 8-year old Daughter, Megan, died six years ago after a Hampton Roads pharmacy gave her the wrong medicine, McClave was shocked that pharmacists in most states don’t have to report their mistakes to anyone.

**Registered manufacturers are required to monitor and report adverse events associated with products they make. This enables drug companies and the FDA to calculate reporting rates and detect signals for serious adverse events.

Excerpts from: Keehn M. Doctor suspended over drug prescriptions. The Legal Intelligencer July 19, 2000:

A local psychiatrist who is no stranger to allegations of misconduct had his medical license temporarily suspended July 5 by the Pennsylvania State Board of Medicine amid accusations he treated patients with a drug currently unapproved by the Food and Drug Administration.

**Prescribers may be liable for injuries associated with compounded drugs, and they also may face professional discipline. In extreme cases they may face criminal violations of the federal Food Drug and Cosmetics Act.

Excerpts from: Liddane L. Custom-made medications enjoying a renaissance. Florida Times-Union January 9, 2001:

But compounding is enjoying newfound renaissance because some patients are finding that tailor-made medicine works best for them, said Dennis Saadeh, pharmacist at Park Pharmacy in Irvine CA. In 5 years since he first offered compounding, he has seen the number of compounded prescriptions at his pharmacy rise from 5 a day to 45 a day.

Excerpts from: Frierson J. Compounding controversy. Chattanooga Times Free Press. March 3, 2001:

The large drug companies of the PhRMA are, interestingly, of two minds. They offer support to the Compounders on speech and advertising issues, but express doubts about the quality control, safety and effectiveness of customized mixtures.

**Historically, pharmaceutical manufacturers have shown little interest in this issue, generally supporting traditional, medically necessary compounding. However, the unapproved manufacturing of certain drugs has reached such large proportions that it is increasingly reaching their radar screens for both competitive and drug safety reasons.

Excerpts from: Teegardin C. State drug agents looking for link between thyroid capsules, ailments. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution March 29, 2001:

The Georgia Drugs and Narcotics Agency opened an investigation and seized the specially formulated medications after at least three patients this month experienced severe adverse reactions to a thyroid medication known as T3.

Patients should be told a product is compounded, said Marjorie Powell, assistant general counsel to PhRMA. And they should know that compounded drugs have not gone through clinical trialsto measure safety and effectiveness, she said. “They really are working with what would be the equivalent of an experimental drug”.

**The Consumer Health Alliance for Safe Medications One product, purportedly a 10 mg hormone treatment, had no detectable active ingredient, while a drug used to prevent organ rejection had only 52% of the labeled drug present. Other products had too much ingredient, up to 135% of the labeled amount.

The results showed an 18% failure rate, which is demonstrative that the products are unreliable and the purported benefits of compounded drugs may not, in fact, outweigh their risk.

It is an unacceptable failure rate.

[auntybiotic]

I thought the rror was 15% but it has been changed to 20% (10% more or less in each individual dose. Can you see how a 20% flucuation daily could cause severe withdrawal in lexapro tapering where the dose must be PRECISE. Reports will show that most pharmacies do NOT FALL within the allowed 20% variance and that many compounded drugs could vary up to 45% of the active ingredient!
Pharmacy Times - November 2006


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Compounding with Commercial Drugs Can Cause Errors
Loyd V. Allen Jr, PhD, RPh

Compounding using commercial drugs as the source of medication can result in medication errors being inadvertently committed.

The standard for the allowed variation in compounded preparations is 90% to 110% of the active ingredient, as presented in the United States Pharmacopeia (USP). This range of the labeled content must be met unless there is a specific monograph in the USP with a different standard that may be either greater than or less than the + 10%.

As an example, if hydrocortisone gel USP or hydrocortisone lotion USP is compounded, the requirement is + 10%; but, if amoxicillin capsules USP are appropriately compounded, the range is from 90% to 120%. The standard for procainamide hydrochloride injection USP it is 95.0% to 105.0%, and for riboflavin injection USP it is from 95.0% to 120.0%.

Most USP product monographs, however, as compared with substance monographs, have the standard range for both manufactured products and compounded preparations as 90.0% to 110.0%.

As pharmacists, we only know that commercial products must meet either the USP or FDA specifications. What we do not know is if the tablets, capsules, etc, used in compounding contain 90.1% of the drug or 109.9% of the drug (almost a 20% difference); or even 119% of the drug, as given in the amoxicillin example above. Consequently, even though extreme care is taken during a compounding procedure, the final compounded preparation may be "out of specification" and may not meet the required standards.

For example, if a commercial product can contain 90.0% to 110.0% active drug, and compounding pharmacists are allowed a 90.0% to 110.0% variation resulting from weighing, manipulations, etc, then the overall variations that may theoretically occur are 81% (0.90 x 0.90 = 0.81) and 121% (1.10 x 1.10 = 1.21).

So, we now have a potential range of 81.0% to 121.0% that may occur if both the commercial product and pharmacy manipulations were in the low end and the opposite if both entities were working at the high end. It should be noted, however, that the USP standard does not recognize this as an option, and the range of 90.0% to 110.0% for compounding is the standard.

Another potential source of compounding error in intravenous admixture programs is "overfill" that is allowed in ampoules, vials, and large-volume parenterals. For example, in a 1-mL container of an injection, an excess of 0.1 mL for a mobile liquid and 0.12 mL for a viscous liquid is allowed (10% or 12%).

For a 10-mL vial, the recommended excess is 0.5 mL for a mobile liquid and 0.7 mL for a viscous liquid. For containers larger than 50 mL, the excess may be 2% for mobile liquids and 3% for viscous liquids.

As is evident, it becomes important to accurately measure the quantity of drug required and not simply use the entire contents of the container (vial, ampoule, etc).

In the case of large-volume parenterals, when adding the exact quantity of drug, the actual "concentration" may be less than what is ordered due to the overage allowed in the 5% dextrose injection or the 0.9% sodium chloride injection. It is important to determine if the "concentration" is critical (and related to the rate of administration), or if the "total quantity of drug administered" is the critical factor.

Obviously, if USP-NF or equivalent-grade bulk substances are used, the pharmacist is starting with substances with a standard generally ranging from 98.0% to 102.0%. The Certificate of Analysis is also available to provide the assay results for the specific lots of each substance that can be used for calculations, etc, during the compounding process.

The bottom line: bulk substances are the only rational source of drugs for all compounding activities, unless they are not available. Excipients in commercial dosage forms also can contribute to compatibility and stability problems as well as elegance and compliance considerations.

Lastly, plastic disposable syringes are designed to measure the quantity of a finished product or preparation. They are not designed to measure "ingredients" for compounding. If used for compounding intravenous admixtures or other preparations, they should be checked and calibrated prior to use, because this can be another potential source of error.

Dr. Allen is editor-in-chief of the International Journal of Pharmaceutical Compounding.

This article was contributed by: International Journal of Pharmaceutical Compounding and CompoundingToday.com

[erinkj]

8months, hopefull, mary: Thanks in advance for allowing me to use your experiences for my paper. Anytime that I will use quotes or excerpts of ANYONE'S experience only you'r screen name will be used. I will not use any real names. I will have to list this forum as one of my sources also. This paper will only be read by my professor. At some point I may alter or reduce the paper in some way to make parts of it appropriate for an article in my college newspaper, as I feel the topic of "antideppressant use" is very newsworthy and consumers need to be aware of these issues. I am working on a questionair and I will post it as soon as I can. Those who wish to participate may answer the questions and post them here or, I will also post my e:mail addy so that you can send me your responce. Thanks again everyone...Peace...Erin

[erinkj]

Your daughters video is ADORABLE!

[erinkj]

First introduced centuries ago in Southeast Asia, tea has become the most widely consumed beverage worldwide aside from water and it is now cultivated in more than 30 different countries. Extensive research has been conducted on tea, specifically green tea, for its many medicinal properties.

It has been estimated that nearly 65 percent of the adult population has experienced some form of stress or anxiety, and these numbers are on a continual rise due to the busy lifestyles we have adopted. Confronted daily with the stresses of our lives, our jobs, our families, etc., we continue to search for ways to relax and reduce our stress levels. In 1998, pharmaceutical sales of anti-depressants totaled $4.79 billion dollars while sales of anxiety drugs totaled $722 million1.

Recently, much attention has been focused on L-Theanine, a unique amino acid commonly found in green tea. It has been determined that L-Theanine is a derivative of Glutamic Acid which is one of the neurotransmitters found in the brain.

Absorbed in the intestinal brush-border membrane, L-Theanine, due to its fat solubility, is incorporated into the brain via the leucine-preferring transport system of the blood brain barrier. Once absorbed into the brain, L-Theanine exhibits many positive, physiological effects.

In an experiment conducted by Hihehiko Yokogoshi, PhD and Takehiko Terashima, PhD at the Laboratory of Nutritional Biochemistry in Shizuoka, Japan, it was determined that dopamine concentrations in the brain, especially in the striatum, hypothalamus, and hippocampus increased significantly after the administration of L-Theanine. Dopamine, one of the brain’s neurotransmitters, is said to affect human emotion. L-Theanine also increases GABA levels in the brain which leads to a feeling of well-being.

The brain transmits four different categories of brain waves which are determined by frequency: Gamma (g), Theta (q), Alpha (a), and Beta (b). Gamma waves are present during sound sleep and Theta waves indicate dozing or sleeping. While Beta waves are present during an awake, excited state, Alpha waves signify an awake, relaxed state. Because L-Theanine promotes Alpha wave generation in the brain, an awake, alert and relaxed physical and mental condition is achieved which demonstrates Theanine’s effectiveness in stress management.

Unlike Kava Kava, Valerian, and St. John’s Wort, L-Theanine does not cause drowsiness or impair a person’s motor skills. Effects of L-Theanine are experienced within 30 minutes of consumption and no drug interactions are known.

L-Theanine has been shown to work antagonistically against the negative side effects of caffeine. After injecting mice with Theanine intraperitoneally or subcutaneously, Kimura and Murata reported that Theanine effectively decreased convulsions induced by high doses of caffeine and the spontaneous motor activity produced by lower caffeine doses. L-Theanine has also been found effective in reducing the hypertension and disturbance of sleep often associated with the use of caffeine.

It is conceived that a large percentage of deaths are caused by atherosclerosis, a cardiovascular disorder characterized by a thickening of the arteries. Recent studies suggest that the oxidation of low-density lipoprotein (LDL) may be responsible for causing atherosclerosis. It has been reported that Theanine may reduce plasma total cholesterol, cholesterol ester and very-low-density lipoprotein cholesterol.

It has also been known that blood pressure is regulated by catecholaminergic and serotonergic neurons in the brain and the peripheral nervous system. Spontaneously hypertensive rats experienced a significant reduction in blood pressure after being administered high doses of Theanine.

Theanine was approved in 1964 by the Japanese Ministry of Health and Welfare for use in food and is currently available in more than 50 food products including ice cream, candy, beverages and supplements.

Perhaps one of the most extensively researched and documented nutritional ingredients, Theanine has demonstrated safety and efficacy in many applications such as:

v Promoting relaxation without causing drowsiness

v Improving learning and concentration

v Heightening mental acuity

v Supporting the Immune System

v Lowering Cholesterol

v Reducing stress and anxiety

v Reducing the negative side effects of caffeine

I will post more on this ammino acid later as I re-search....Erin

[erinkj]

Table 5. E vidence Supporting the E ffectiveness and Safety of I nositol in A nxiety D isorders
Design Description Comments
RCT crossover
with placebo in
panic disorder
Twenty-one patients with panic disorder were randomly assigned
to 6 g of inositol or placebo twice a day for four weeks and
then switched to the other substance24; during week 4, the
mean number of panic attacks was 3.7 in the inositol group
compared with 6.3 in the placebo group
Panic attack frequency and intensity were
significantly reduced in the inositol group
RCT crossover
with SSRI in
panic disorder
Inositol was compared with fluvoxamine (Luvox) in 20 patients
with panic disorder25; each crossover phase lasted four weeks
(dosage: inositol, 18 g per day, or fluvoxamine, 150 mg per
day); the four-week intervals were separated by a one-week
placebo washout period; overall, both drugs reduced panic
attack frequency and intensity, anxiety scale scores, and clinical
global improvement scores; no meaningful clinical differences
were noted between the two drugs
The absence of a placebo condition is
troubling but, taken together with the
previous trial, inositol appears to reduce
panic disorder symptoms in the short term;
over a one-month interval, inositol showed
effectiveness similar to that of established
SSRI medications for panic disorder
RCT crossover
with placebo
in OCD
The same research team compared inositol and placebo for the
treatment of OCD26; 13 patients with OCD who had failed
SSRI or clomipramine (Anafranil) treatments or who could
not tolerate their side effects used 18 g per day of inositol or
placebo for consecutive six-week treatment intervals; inositol
produced significant reductions in Yale-Brown Obsessive-
Compulsive Scale scores (4.6) compared with the placebo
condition (0.3); reductions in Hamilton Anxiety Scale scores
were not significantly different
Inositol appears to be highly effective
in reducing OCD symptoms but not in
reducing anxiety scale scores; participants
with OCD had failed previous treatment, so
findings may not be typical of patients with
OCD in general
RCT crossover
with placebo
in OCD
Inositol added to SSRI treatments for OCD27; 13 patients with
OCD who had not responded adequately to fluoxetine
(Prozac), fluvoxamine, or clomipramine for at least eight weeks
were given consecutive six-week trials on 18 g per day of
inositol or placebo, in addition to the SSRI medication; inositol
provided no additional benefit
The two studies on treatment-resistant OCD
suggest inositol adds no benefit to SSRI
therapy but may have positive effects on its
own; none of these short studies produced
side effects from inositol that would
suggest risk greater than that of SSRIs

[hope for the best]

L-Theanine was one of the things I was researching for my daughter when someone on another forum mentioned it for anxiety. When I came upon a warning somewhere that that people with depression should use it with caution because of the potential of lowering serotonin I abandonded the research. Just thought I'd mention it in case it turns out to be an issue.

To update, my daughter is still doing fine on her reduced dose of 4.5 down from 10mg.

The best to everyone.

Originally Posted by erinkj

First introduced centuries ago in Southeast Asia, tea has become the most widely consumed beverage worldwide aside from water and it is now cultivated in more than 30 different countries. Extensive research has been conducted on tea, specifically green tea, for its many medicinal properties.

It has been estimated that nearly 65 percent of the adult population has experienced some form of stress or anxiety, and these numbers are on a continual rise due to the busy lifestyles we have adopted. Confronted daily with the stresses of our lives, our jobs, our families, etc., we continue to search for ways to relax and reduce our stress levels. In 1998, pharmaceutical sales of anti-depressants totaled $4.79 billion dollars while sales of anxiety drugs totaled $722 million1.

Recently, much attention has been focused on L-Theanine, a unique amino acid commonly found in green tea. It has been determined that L-Theanine is a derivative of Glutamic Acid which is one of the neurotransmitters found in the brain.

Absorbed in the intestinal brush-border membrane, L-Theanine, due to its fat solubility, is incorporated into the brain via the leucine-preferring transport system of the blood brain barrier. Once absorbed into the brain, L-Theanine exhibits many positive, physiological effects.

In an experiment conducted by Hihehiko Yokogoshi, PhD and Takehiko Terashima, PhD at the Laboratory of Nutritional Biochemistry in Shizuoka, Japan, it was determined that dopamine concentrations in the brain, especially in the striatum, hypothalamus, and hippocampus increased significantly after the administration of L-Theanine. Dopamine, one of the brain’s neurotransmitters, is said to affect human emotion. L-Theanine also increases GABA levels in the brain which leads to a feeling of well-being.

The brain transmits four different categories of brain waves which are determined by frequency: Gamma (g), Theta (q), Alpha (a), and Beta (b). Gamma waves are present during sound sleep and Theta waves indicate dozing or sleeping. While Beta waves are present during an awake, excited state, Alpha waves signify an awake, relaxed state. Because L-Theanine promotes Alpha wave generation in the brain, an awake, alert and relaxed physical and mental condition is achieved which demonstrates Theanine’s effectiveness in stress management.

Unlike Kava Kava, Valerian, and St. John’s Wort, L-Theanine does not cause drowsiness or impair a person’s motor skills. Effects of L-Theanine are experienced within 30 minutes of consumption and no drug interactions are known.

L-Theanine has been shown to work antagonistically against the negative side effects of caffeine. After injecting mice with Theanine intraperitoneally or subcutaneously, Kimura and Murata reported that Theanine effectively decreased convulsions induced by high doses of caffeine and the spontaneous motor activity produced by lower caffeine doses. L-Theanine has also been found effective in reducing the hypertension and disturbance of sleep often associated with the use of caffeine.

It is conceived that a large percentage of deaths are caused by atherosclerosis, a cardiovascular disorder characterized by a thickening of the arteries. Recent studies suggest that the oxidation of low-density lipoprotein (LDL) may be responsible for causing atherosclerosis. It has been reported that Theanine may reduce plasma total cholesterol, cholesterol ester and very-low-density lipoprotein cholesterol.

It has also been known that blood pressure is regulated by catecholaminergic and serotonergic neurons in the brain and the peripheral nervous system. Spontaneously hypertensive rats experienced a significant reduction in blood pressure after being administered high doses of Theanine.

Theanine was approved in 1964 by the Japanese Ministry of Health and Welfare for use in food and is currently available in more than 50 food products including ice cream, candy, beverages and supplements.

Perhaps one of the most extensively researched and documented nutritional ingredients, Theanine has demonstrated safety and efficacy in many applications such as:

v Promoting relaxation without causing drowsiness

v Improving learning and concentration

v Heightening mental acuity

v Supporting the Immune System

v Lowering Cholesterol

v Reducing stress and anxiety

v Reducing the negative side effects of caffeine

I will post more on this ammino acid later as I re-search....Erin

[jca1928]

thanks for the onfo this stuff is so mind boggling to me it realy helps when somone is there to help you through this. and don't worry i'm in no hurry to start cutting back my dose of celexa. i just want to start taking the suplments used in the road back program to see if it helps. figure that my brain has been put through total hell and needs some help. i'm hoping that the power barley will help bring back some of my energy. and as for my dr. I thought that i found a DR. that was going try to help me get off of this stuff wich she is the one that put me on the cellexa.. the last time i was in to see her she wanted me to start taking wellbutrin with the cellexa wich i refused and she wasn't to happy about it either. the last thing a need is to get hooked on somthing els. this is all such a pain i can bairly pay the drugs to begin with and now i'm forking out a ton in suplments. though if the suplments work they are worth every penny to me. thank god that cellexa is in generic form and only runs me $4.00 for 30 days. verses lexapro that ran me $76.00 for 30 days. but i'm going stop ranting lol and say thank you very much for the help i'll probbly be posting a lot more in the near future. AJ

[auntybiotic]

Originally Posted by jca1928

thanks for the onfo this stuff is so mind boggling to me it realy helps when somone is there to help you through this. and don't worry i'm in no hurry to start cutting back my dose of celexa. i just want to start taking the suplments used in the road back program to see if it helps. figure that my brain has been put through total hell and needs some help. i'm hoping that the power barley will help bring back some of my energy. and as for my dr. I thought that i found a DR. that was going try to help me get off of this stuff wich she is the one that put me on the cellexa.. the last time i was in to see her she wanted me to start taking wellbutrin with the cellexa wich i refused and she wasn't to happy about it either. the last thing a need is to get hooked on somthing els. this is all such a pain i can bairly pay the drugs to begin with and now i'm forking out a ton in suplments. though if the suplments work they are worth every penny to me. thank god that cellexa is in generic form and only runs me $4.00 for 30 days. verses lexapro that ran me $76.00 for 30 days. but i'm going stop ranting lol and say thank you very much for the help i'll probbly be posting a lot more in the near future. AJ

You are welcome. I will try to help when I am online although I don't check in as often as I would like.

[auntybiotic]

Originally Posted by erinkj

8months, hopefull, mary: Thanks in advance for allowing me to use your experiences for my paper. Anytime that I will use quotes or excerpts of ANYONE'S experience only you'r screen name will be used. I will not use any real names. I will have to list this forum as one of my sources also. This paper will only be read by my professor. At some point I may alter or reduce the paper in some way to make parts of it appropriate for an article in my college newspaper, as I feel the topic of "antideppressant use" is very newsworthy and consumers need to be aware of these issues. I am working on a questionair and I will post it as soon as I can. Those who wish to participate may answer the questions and post them here or, I will also post my e:mail addy so that you can send me your responce. Thanks again everyone...Peace...Erin

If I can help with your article I would be happy to, again no actual names.

[COHiker]

Originally Posted by auntybiotic

I am doing a survey for my own knowledge. Please let me know how many have movement disorders, including restless legs during or after lexapro use. How long were you on lexapro and what dose of lexapro. Exactly how did you taper, what % over what period. Has the disorder continued or did the movement disorder go away. Please try and describe when the movement disorder began and what exactly happens.Thanks for any input, I am researching this aspect of lexapro damage.

Lecithin, as directed on the bottle, was recommended by Dr. Breggins in his book to help prevent the movement disorder.

Hello Aunty,
I have read back through many of these posts (and recommended others to do so as well) and I want you to know that your advise has been wonderful. The amount of research you have put into this issue is truely amazing! I know that when it is for the sake of a child, a mothers energy can be boundless, you certainly have shown that.

Per your request above, I do not have a movement disorder per say, but I have had noticed deminished balance and increase in motion sickness. I'm wondering if these symptoms are a result of Lexapro as well (I took lexapro for almost four years and the symptoms have been worse since weaning--I am now down to 3 mg) Did your daughter suffer from RLS (restless leg syndrome)? I would be very careful of the drugs that treat RLS. I understand that the side effects can be nasty.

Please keep us posted on your findings. I do not post as often as I would like, but so read everyone's to see what is helping and what everyone is trying.

Again, I commend you for your time and effort into this issue. Your findings have been so very helpful and invaluble to many. It is truely a community service and I am grateful to have benefitted from your research.

On belhalf of many who come to this site in desperation to find help and have not been supported by their MD's, we thank you for all your effort.

Thanks and God Bless,
CO Hiker

[auntybiotic]

Originally Posted by COHiker

Hello Aunty,
I have read back through many of these posts (and recommended others to do so as well) and I want you to know that your advise has been wonderful. The amount of research you have put into this issue is truely amazing! I know that when it is for the sake of a child, a mothers energy can be boundless, you certainly have shown that.

Per your request above, I do not have a movement disorder per say, but I have had noticed deminished balance and increase in motion sickness. I'm wondering if these symptoms are a result of Lexapro as well (I took lexapro for almost four years and the symptoms have been worse since weaning--I am now down to 3 mg) Did your daughter suffer from RLS (restless leg syndrome)? I would be very careful of the drugs that treat RLS. I understand that the side effects can be nasty.

Please keep us posted on your findings. I do not post as often as I would like, but so read everyone's to see what is helping and what everyone is trying.

Again, I commend you for your time and effort into this issue. Your findings have been so very helpful and invaluble to many. It is truely a community service and I am grateful to have benefitted from your research.

On belhalf of many who come to this site in desperation to find help and have not been supported by their MD's, we thank you for all your effort.

Thanks and God Bless,
CO Hiker

CoHiker,

Thanks for the info. How are you tapering presently off of the three MG? What will your next reduction be? How long are you waiting inbetween tapers. The motion sickness and diziness are lexapro withdrawals. As you get lower in dose you may want to try Dramamine Non Drowsy formulaa to get you thru the motion sickness symptom.

I appreciate your words of thanks for sharing my research on lexapro..........I never realized when I started this post that it would be nearing a million hits........just goes to show how many others are having similiar problems getting off of lexapro with withdrawals.
[i] will bring page 188 up for newcomers, thanks for remembering the page.

I will try and check in more regularly so let me know if I can help in any way.

aunty

[auntybiotic]

Originally Posted by auntybiotic

Anti-depressants don’t increase the production of anything over the long term…in fact it is well known that in the long term they decrease levels of neurotransmitters such as serotonin.
Since physicians, therapists and counselors are trained and get their information from the standard medical establishment…do you really think they know the truth…no one is saying that they are not caring individuals--but they don’t know the truth anymore than the people who prescribe the medication to you. If fact most of them think we’re idiots because we doubt and ask questions. The fact is that we do not know the long range effects lexapro or any antidepressant on the human body and mind…many are now thinking that the longer you are on the antidepressants, the more profound these changes may be…In fact we don’t know the exact mechanism of action of many psychotropic drugs.

It is my belief that lexapro is one of the most difficult antidepressants to get off of. The reason for this is its long half-life (24-32 hours), the diabolic symptomology associated with withdrawal and the length of the withdrawal symptoms. Lexapro causes changes to gastrointestinal function due to reacting on the numerous serotonin receptors in the gut… In layman’s terms this means that regardless of the food you eat--absorption of the vital nutrients is impaired. If nutrients cannot be absorbed in sufficient quantities and associated quality…all biochemical pathways in the body are affected negatively. Chronic fatigue, sleeplessness, aches and pains, depression, anxiety, are all signs and symptoms of these deficiencies. In my belief, Lexapro also has a profound effects on brain neurotransmitter production and function as it is one of the the most selective SSRI on serotonin reutake regulation.. thereby creating havoc in what is called the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis…which accounts for the chronic fatigue. Lexapro down-regulates serotonin receptors in the human body possibly causing the long lasting aches and pains associated with withdrawal. Lexapro withdrawal or cold turkey is insidious because, left untreated; these symptoms can last literally for up t0 18 months.



Nutritional treatment is essential in the recovery and withdrawal phase of any type of drug or alcohol dependency. To clarify nutritional treatment, consider the following statement:

The body on lexapro, or any other mind altering drug or alcohol, is like the house that has been damaged in a storm. If you were repairing the house what building materials would you need? You would need lumber, sheet rock, shingles, and etc for the major supplies…these are the equivalent of the bodies need for protein, carbohydrates, and fats. How would you hold everything together?…nuts and bolts, nails, and screws—these are the equivalent of the bodies need for vitamins and minerals. To make the repairs we need the proper tools to cut the lumber and fit it into place…one would need the saws, the equivalent of the bodies production of enzymes…these are made from the proteins we eat…one can draw analogy after analogy to explain the necessity for nutritional treatment to facilitate one back to health…only one thing needs to be clearly understood…you put back into the body the things it needs to come back to health.

Any nutritional therapy should be adhered to for at six months, regardless of how you feel. Just like it takes time to alter profoundly the body’s biochemistry with drugs…it takes time to repair with proper nutrition. Proteins, complex carbs, and essential fatty acids are necessary building blocks for repair and return of proper function of organ systems and brain neurochemistry. Vitamins and minerals are “co-factors and co-enzymes” which work on the building blocks to do repair and rebuilding. Additionally, it is always counter-productive to move from the complex to the simple… start simple and move to the level of complexity that works for you…remember all patients are unique in the way they process nutrients and in their ability to maximize therapy.

The following nutrients are suggested those who wish to detox:

You must come off lexapro slowly—rebound hypertension may occur since lexapro had antianxiety effects on the body…especially if you already have high blood pressure.

Phenergan 25 mg tab…one every 6 hours for nausea and cramps, dramanine for dizziness and nausea if a Rx for phenegran is not available. Imodium A/D works well for diarrhea. Primal Defense by Garden of Eden works for cramping.

Calcium taken before bedtime, at suggested level on bottle, will help with sleep. The calcium will also help the excess weight to come off.

It is suggested to remove all red meat from you diet. Red meat has chemical components that increase inflammation and pain. Fish, chicken, eggs are good sources of protein.

· Increase your intake of raw fruits and vegetables…you get little or nothing from canned foods…fresh fruits and veges are loaded with fiber which help bind and remove toxins from your body…they also normalize gut function
Stay off candy, and other sugar heavy foods

Drink lots of good water, green teas are good for the antioxidants and anti-inflammatory properties…no cokes or soda waters.
Nanoi juice seems to help with the depersonalization caused by lexapro withdrawals at about the three month off mark.

Bach Flower essences, help with anxiety, hopelessness, obsessive compulsive actions, excessive worrying. Google Bach Flower Essence for the exact essnce for your symptoms.

Potassium supplements help with the Restless Leg Syndrome that seems to occur in those withdrawaling.

Tart Cherry Capsules by The road Bach seem to help many with sleep and anxiety issues.
When capable you must start exercising…swimming is best because it is low impact exercise…yoga…tai chi…walking daily…detoxing or otherwise…exercise is a normal component of good health

Supplements: Some need less and some more…remember the efficacy of all nutrition and supplement use is