[Hairyarmadillo]

Originally Posted by mimiof10

I have read several of the posts on this site and it seems you all have a common thread going. The symptoms discribed are all symptoms of depression. I am taking Lexapro and I am about to cross taper off Lexapro onto Cymbalta. I have a multitude of health problems, from spinal stenosis, neuropathy, Fibromyalgeia, migraines and Chronic Lymphocytic Luekemia. I have plenty reason to be depressed, but I had the depression years before any of the other. I cannot remember which person said they had been on ssri longer than anyone on the site, well I have been on them off and on for 35 years. I go along fine for several years and then I hit the rock hard bottom. I have learned the safest thing for me is stay on the medication. I am tapering off the Lexapro to start Cymbalta in hopes of taking fewer medications and limiting drug interactions. I will soon have to start a strong regimine of chemotherapy, as my type chromosome damage is resistant to chemo. I take no less than 10 prescription meds a day. I also take Omega 3 at the encouragment of my psychiatrist. I also work for a psychiatrist. If you are getting psych meds from your gp, let me suggest that you find a psych who does both therapy and med management. If you are seeing a therapist for counseling for 30 to 50 minutes, I do not mean that is bad, and you see the dr prescribing your meds for 10 minutes, what is wrong with that picture. I want the doctor writing my scripts to talk to me long enough to know what is really going on with me. I realize this is a w/d forum and that is what drew me here. I just wanted to add my thoughts. After 42 years of working for and with doctors I feel I have a some experience that could be of help.

In retrospect, I have grown to believe that (for the most parts) people would be better to have these types of meds prescribed by psychiatrists. I know when I was initially prescribed Paxil it was because I told the doctor I was depressed and needed them. so I got them. years down the road, after I had been off them and then had a bad reaction to another medication, a psychiatrist in a hospital told me I should not have stopped taking them (it had been months since I had taken them) because there was a reason my doctor prescribed them. I promptly told her that yes, the reason was I asked for them. Of course, the down side if gps did not prescribe is that some people with true clinical depression would never go to a psychiatrist because of some still attach social stigma to going to a psychiatrist, while asking for it from the gp is easily done through a routine visit. Not to mention the difference in cost. I do think they are over prescribed and I don't think the gps are as familiar with the medications as they should be.
You are right that the symptoms described by many people on this site are symptoms of depression. Therein lies the problem of withdrawal and staying off the meds. There is a time of adjustment within the brain after taking these meds that indeed has the symptoms of depression, which is why many people go back on them. I know I did. When the rebound depression came I decided it was indication that I NEEDED the medication and went back on. Then, within months I was back to having slower thinking, less memory, extreme apathy. Same thing happened when the negative side effects came from the SSRIs-I would tell the doctor, he would tell me that I had adjusted to the SSRI and either up my dose or change the med. True, I wasn't anxious but I was so apathetic that I was close to non-functional. Interestingly, this seems to be standard practice. After having tried 3 different medications, I am reluctant to try another. I do believe these medicines have a use and that some people do benefit from them and don't have negative side effects. I just think they need to be more closely monitored and any doctor prescribing them needs to be more well-informed both on the medications themselves and the existence of withdrawal.

[mimiof10]

Originally Posted by Hairyarmadillo

In retrospect, I have grown to believe that (for the most parts) people would be better to have these types of meds prescribed by psychiatrists. I know when I was initially prescribed Paxil it was because I told the doctor I was depressed and needed them. so I got them. years down the road, after I had been off them and then had a bad reaction to another medication, a psychiatrist in a hospital told me I should not have stopped taking them (it had been months since I had taken them) because there was a reason my doctor prescribed them. I promptly told her that yes, the reason was I asked for them. Of course, the down side if gps did not prescribe is that some people with true clinical depression would never go to a psychiatrist because of some still attach social stigma to going to a psychiatrist, while asking for it from the gp is easily done through a routine visit. Not to mention the difference in cost. I do think they are over prescribed and I don't think the gps are as familiar with the medications as they should be.
You are right that the symptoms described by many people on this site are symptoms of depression. Therein lies the problem of withdrawal and staying off the meds. There is a time of adjustment within the brain after taking these meds that indeed has the symptoms of depression, which is why many people go back on them. I know I did. When the rebound depression came I decided it was indication that I NEEDED the medication and went back on. Then, within months I was back to having slower thinking, less memory, extreme apathy. Same thing happened when the negative side effects came from the SSRIs-I would tell the doctor, he would tell me that I had adjusted to the SSRI and either up my dose or change the med. True, I wasn't anxious but I was so apathetic that I was close to non-functional. Interestingly, this seems to be standard practice. After having tried 3 different medications, I am reluctant to try another. I do believe these medicines have a use and that some people do benefit from them and don't have negative side effects. I just think they need to be more closely monitored and any doctor prescribing them needs to be more well-informed both on the medications themselves and the existence of withdrawal.

Everything you said is so true. Most doctors do not consider that you may be apathetic due to overdose. Rather than trying a lower dose they want to change the medication. I realize there is a stigma associated with psychiatry. Insurance companies do not even treat mental health as they do other illnesses. There is a push to get mental health parity laws. I believe that would help to remove some of the stigma if we looked at mental illness as an illness and not a "condition", like we could just get over it.

I appreciate the fact there are so many support blogs out there, too. I think the more we share our experiences the less stigma there will be. We are finding out we are not "crazy", we have an illness. Like I said I have been doing this for over 35 years. It was really hard in the beginning. Even my husband was embarassed if I said anything to anyone. For some reason, I never felt embarassed. I had 5 pregnancies in three years. I only have two children. Shortly after my youngest child was born I had a mental break down and had to be hospitalized for three months and had ECT three times a week for the three months. I feel that by the grace of God I was able to function at all when I was released. I functions normally and have become extremely high functioning and productive.

I know that is a lot of history, but it helps to have the history to understand where people and there ideas originate.

I really wish the best to everyone who is trying to "cleanse" there system of these drugs. Sometimes we feel like lab rats for doctors who are not sure of the effects.

[perkyblue]

Hi everyone,
Since my last post I've had new things happening. For awhile, I couldn't sleep because my body was so tense I felt like my body was going into a huge spasm. now I feel like I need to stretch all the time. I feel weak and shaky. I can't be up for long, I tire easily. I haven't been able to work. I cry alot because of how bad I feel. Feel like I'm letting my family down. I don't feel mentally depressed for the most part but the physical is soooo bad. if I hadn't taken those 3 days worth in june, I would have been off for 5 months, when will I start feeling better? My head feels heavy and dizzy. So tired. anyone have any suggestions? never was one to exercise but I feel like I should do something to gain strength in my muscles, sometimes it takes every muscle I have to sit up. Just feeding myself was a chore this A.M. anyone else have this? I'm scared.are things going to get worse? I don't know how much more I can take. Sorry I always seem to ramble.Has anyone developed more probs after being on the lex that has emproved or disappeared after stopping the lex?

[Hairyarmadillo]

Originally Posted by mimiof10

Everything you said is so true. Most doctors do not consider that you may be apathetic due to overdose. Rather than trying a lower dose they want to change the medication. I realize there is a stigma associated with psychiatry. Insurance companies do not even treat mental health as they do other illnesses. There is a push to get mental health parity laws. I believe that would help to remove some of the stigma if we looked at mental illness as an illness and not a "condition", like we could just get over it.

I appreciate the fact there are so many support blogs out there, too. I think the more we share our experiences the less stigma there will be. We are finding out we are not "crazy", we have an illness. Like I said I have been doing this for over 35 years. It was really hard in the beginning. Even my husband was embarassed if I said anything to anyone. For some reason, I never felt embarassed. I had 5 pregnancies in three years. I only have two children. Shortly after my youngest child was born I had a mental break down and had to be hospitalized for three months and had ECT three times a week for the three months. I feel that by the grace of God I was able to function at all when I was released. I functions normally and have become extremely high functioning and productive.

I know that is a lot of history, but it helps to have the history to understand where people and there ideas originate.

I really wish the best to everyone who is trying to "cleanse" there system of these drugs. Sometimes we feel like lab rats for doctors who are not sure of the effects.

I have always been open about my depression. To look at me, one would never suspect that I have suffered with it for years. I heard so many people bashing people for getting on anti-depressants. after all, if they just stayed busy, stopped dwellin on things it would pass-HA! I have always surrounded myself with positive literature, am one of the most positive thinking people in the world, but when the depression hit, it hit. (I always assumed it was chemical, but in retrospect I see an overload of situational issues that no one could deal with and am now working on identifying situations I once suppressed so I can deal with them) You are right-depression needs to be accepted for what it is-an illness. Big difference from the blues and debillitating depression. Thankfully more and more people who are public figures are coming forward and talking of this issue.

[Hairyarmadillo]

Originally Posted by perkyblue

Hi everyone,
Since my last post I've had new things happening. For awhile, I couldn't sleep because my body was so tense I felt like my body was going into a huge spasm. now I feel like I need to stretch all the time. I feel weak and shaky. I can't be up for long, I tire easily. I haven't been able to work. I cry alot because of how bad I feel. Feel like I'm letting my family down. I don't feel mentally depressed for the most part but the physical is soooo bad. if I hadn't taken those 3 days worth in june, I would have been off for 5 months, when will I start feeling better? My head feels heavy and dizzy. So tired. anyone have any suggestions? never was one to exercise but I feel like I should do something to gain strength in my muscles, sometimes it takes every muscle I have to sit up. Just feeding myself was a chore this A.M. anyone else have this? I'm scared.are things going to get worse? I don't know how much more I can take. Sorry I always seem to ramble.Has anyone developed more probs after being on the lex that has emproved or disappeared after stopping the lex?

If at all possible when you are tired, rest!! Best thing for you. Are you taking the magnesium? This is a time where you need to lean on your family-realize that this is just like a physical illness. Don't beat yourself up for needing the time to recuperate.

[Aeroman]

Oh yes, the cloud is still amongst me. When will this end? Can I gradually have this junk lift off me so I can become myself as a better person again? I dont feel like doing anything...just the thought of having some family event this weekend gets me all feeling weird, i cant describe it. And then I feel kinda like, do i even love my family/wife anymore? Emotionless in a way, I dunno...I despair, who wouldnt? But I also have that hope that this funk of depression will pass.

[Julia77]

Originally Posted by Aeroman

Oh yes, the cloud is still amongst me. When will this end? Can I gradually have this junk lift off me so I can become myself as a better person again? I dont feel like doing anything...just the thought of having some family event this weekend gets me all feeling weird, i cant describe it. And then I feel kinda like, do i even love my family/wife anymore? Emotionless in a way, I dunno...I despair, who wouldnt? But I also have that hope that this funk of depression will pass.

I would love to hear from you when you're 18 months off ! I bet we will all be feeling like ourselves after 18 months off. Remember that it's the DRUGS, not you. Do not take anyone else's example as an idea of what things should be like since we are all so unique. However, what unites us is that we ALL recover after a significant time off those meds. It sounds like you're going through a traditional scenario of getting off those meds: physical, followed by emotional offsets by months 4-6.

I read your post and think that the pre-SSRI event described by was a panic attack, followed by surges of anxiety. Had we not gone for medications then, there are some very good herbal alternatives out there to treating all that stuff........

[mimiof10]

Originally Posted by Julia77

I would love to hear from you when you're 18 months off ! I bet we will all be feeling like ourselves after 18 months off. Remember that it's the DRUGS, not you. Do not take anyone else's example as an idea of what things should be like since we are all so unique. However, what unites us is that we ALL recover after a significant time off those meds. It sounds like you're going through a traditional scenario of getting off those meds: physical, followed by emotional offsets by months 4-6.

I read your post and think that the pre-SSRI event described by was a panic attack, followed by surges of anxiety. Had we not gone for medications then, there are some very good herbal alternatives out there to treating all that stuff........

I am all for natural cures, but remember that natural does not mean safe always. Remember poppies are natural. Depending on other conditions you may have, some herbal remedues may be more harmful than medications. Do not just take the a clerks recommendation or even the friends. Be sure to do your own research. It would be terrible to get off a medication you do not want the side effects of and get on something that may cause worse side effects. Just a thought

[erinkj]

Howdy ALL! I have ALOT to add concerning all of today's posts, however it has been a dreadfully long, busy day so; I will chime in tomorrow! ...Goodnight everyone....Peace...Erin

Also, I have come across several very interesting articles on SSRI's etc, that I will post in the morning.

[Julia77]

Originally Posted by mimiof10

I am all for natural cures, but remember that natural does not mean safe always. Remember poppies are natural. Depending on other conditions you may have, some herbal remedues may be more harmful than medications. Do not just take the a clerks recommendation or even the friends. Be sure to do your own research. It would be terrible to get off a medication you do not want the side effects of and get on something that may cause worse side effects. Just a thought

Hello! "It would be terrible to get off a medication you do not want the side effects of and get on something that may cause worse side effects." -Nothing in the herbal world would cause something even a little like what we are going through after quitting Lexapro. Nothing even close. Another story is that our way is closed now to herbs like St. John's wort, 5HTP, or Sam-e, until we are at least 12 months off SSRIs. They somehow interact together causing even a worst case scenario in terms of serotonin production.
Only a registered naturopath-homeopath can prescribe them. They must be familiar with your condition and medical history.

[Aeroman]

Originally Posted by Julia77

I would love to hear from you when you're 18 months off ! I bet we will all be feeling like ourselves after 18 months off. Remember that it's the DRUGS, not you. Do not take anyone else's example as an idea of what things should be like since we are all so unique. However, what unites us is that we ALL recover after a significant time off those meds. It sounds like you're going through a traditional scenario of getting off those meds: physical, followed by emotional offsets by months 4-6.

I read your post and think that the pre-SSRI event described by was a panic attack, followed by surges of anxiety. Had we not gone for medications then, there are some very good herbal alternatives out there to treating all that stuff........

Thanks Julia! I made that comment to my wife last night and it made her feel good as well as myself. I told her, this time next year, I am going to be a champ, passed through all this stuff. I kid you not though, I am very tempted to pick up the phone and call the doc as I am having issues functioning at work, just obsessing about my current state. I woke up early this morning quite dizzy but it has subsided. I was laying in bed while the room spun. I am thinking because I dropped the blood pressure meds 2 weeks ago, I am feeling some sort of weird symptoms? I stopped using them because I am finding ways to get my libido back....

[anti-drugs]

I can relate with the dizziness. It has come back off and on for the last few weeks. Just when I thought I was finally done with it

Month 4 has been really hard for me. This month I am experiencing a lot of wierd symptoms that really freak me out. I have a lot of racing thoughts all the time. I can't seem to get my head to stop thinking. Then if I actually want to try and do something it takes forever to think it through. I have a lot of confussion and concentration problems. My memory is slowly coming back, but it's still got a long way to go

These symptoms really freak me out. I'm constantly worrying that there is permanant brain damage and I'll never be the same again My husband is constantly reinforcing that this is all from the Lex, but it's hard to believe when it's happening to you. Has this happened to any of you around month 4? Is this the mania Aunty was referring to in an earlier post. Please help.

Anti-Drugs

[Aeroman]

Originally Posted by anti-drugs

I can relate with the dizziness. It has come back off and on for the last few weeks. Just when I thought I was finally done with it

Month 4 has been really hard for me. This month I am experiencing a lot of wierd symptoms that really freak me out. I have a lot of racing thoughts all the time. I can't seem to get my head to stop thinking. Then if I actually want to try and do something it takes forever to think it through. I have a lot of confussion and concentration problems. My memory is slowly coming back, but it's still got a long way to go

These symptoms really freak me out. I'm constantly worrying that there is permanant brain damage and I'll never be the same again My husband is constantly reinforcing that this is all from the Lex, but it's hard to believe when it's happening to you. Has this happened to any of you around month 4? Is this the mania Aunty was referring to in an earlier post. Please help.

Anti-Drugs

sounds like obsessions, not mania. Hang in there...I am but its not easy. Not sure if this has happened already but because you keep thinking of whats happening to you over and over (obsession), you lose touch of your outside world. Basically, you withdraw and become disconnected from your old world.

[anti-drugs]

Yes that's exactly how I feel! I'm constantly thinking about my withdrawals and can't seem to concentrate on anything else. If i miss speak or read a word incorrectly I automatically assume the worst. Does that make sense? Maybe that's part of the anxiety. I don't know. I just hope it passes. Thanks for helping.

Anti-Drugs

[perkyblue]

Hi everybody.
I asked my herb lady what to do about the constant tension in my muscles. they feel like they are always shaking, that tight head feeling. anyway she told me to take 2 vit b6 kand put 2 in my left pocket, apparently your body absorbs energy through the left side of ur body. also went to a chiro known as a best? anyway he adjusted me and I felt a bit better. anyone else have the severe muscle tension? what are you doing for it? I take the mag but after too much you get loose stools. I feel nauseated alot. hope everyone is staying strong and getting through such awfulness. I think we were all chosen to go through this so we can be ""therapists" for others that are going through their own private h---. I wish I could cheer myself up with my own words. such a pessimist i am, oh well. ur all in my prayers. anything is possible with god. GOD BLESS ALL

[Hairyarmadillo]

Anti-drugs I hated the obsessive thinking. I would be in the process of getting ready for work and then, out of the blue, would be thinking about things that I had not thought of for years! There were days I could not turn my thoughts off. Can also relate to difficulty in thinking and memory issues. I would start sentences and literally forget midways what I was thinking of. I have always had an extensive vocabulary but would find myself searching for the most basic words. At times, I would resort to using definitions. Fork wasn't one of the words I had trouble with, but for an example, during my seeking for words and using definitions, instead of saying for instance "May I have a fork?" I would say something like "May I have that thing with prongs to eat with?" Again, fork wasn't a word I had trouble with, but see what a long route I had to go to? But at times I could not think of words I wanted to use. Some of my happiest times that made me realize I was healing was when a big word popped out. I really felt like I had had a stroke. And typing!! It took fives times as long because I had to make my hands type instead of the instant process it usually is. When I was tired, it was worse. Again, I am not 100% at this point (approx 16 months),but there is so much improvement and I am sooooo close to normal. "I can see clearly now, the rain is gone" I promise you guys, it happens.

[Aeroman]

Originally Posted by Hairyarmadillo

Anti-drugs I hated the obsessive thinking. I would be in the process of getting ready for work and then, out of the blue, would be thinking about things that I had not thought of for years! There were days I could not turn my thoughts off. Can also relate to difficulty in thinking and memory issues. I would start sentences and literally forget midways what I was thinking of. I have always had an extensive vocabulary but would find myself searching for the most basic words. At times, I would resort to using definitions. Fork wasn't one of the words I had trouble with, but for an example, during my seeking for words and using definitions, instead of saying for instance "May I have a fork?" I would say something like "May I have that thing with prongs to eat with?" Again, fork wasn't a word I had trouble with, but see what a long route I had to go to? But at times I could not think of words I wanted to use. Some of my happiest times that made me realize I was healing was when a big word popped out. I really felt like I had had a stroke. And typing!! It took fives times as long because I had to make my hands type instead of the instant process it usually is. When I was tired, it was worse. Again, I am not 100% at this point (approx 16 months),but there is so much improvement and I am sooooo close to normal. "I can see clearly now, the rain is gone" I promise you guys, it happens.

"I can see clearly now, the rain is gone" I promise you guys, it happens."

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you....in times of anxiety, despair, and depression, knowing all that is temporary brings hope!!!!!

I find myself on here a lot looking for constant assurance I am going to get better...as you remember during your struggles, while in the tunnel, it can be a trying moment!

[erinkj]

Originally Posted by Hairyarmadillo

Anti-drugs I hated the obsessive thinking. I would be in the process of getting ready for work and then, out of the blue, would be thinking about things that I had not thought of for years! There were days I could not turn my thoughts off. Can also relate to difficulty in thinking and memory issues. I would start sentences and literally forget midways what I was thinking of. I have always had an extensive vocabulary but would find myself searching for the most basic words. At times, I would resort to using definitions. Fork wasn't one of the words I had trouble with, but for an example, during my seeking for words and using definitions, instead of saying for instance "May I have a fork?" I would say something like "May I have that thing with prongs to eat with?" Again, fork wasn't a word I had trouble with, but see what a long route I had to go to? But at times I could not think of words I wanted to use. Some of my happiest times that made me realize I was healing was when a big word popped out. I really felt like I had had a stroke. And typing!! It took fives times as long because I had to make my hands type instead of the instant process it usually is. When I was tired, it was worse. Again, I am not 100% at this point (approx 16 months),but there is so much improvement and I am sooooo close to normal. "I can see clearly now, the rain is gone" I promise you guys, it happens.

I get that, " searching for words" symptom during migraines frequently. It's like, I KNOW the word I want, it is right there on the tip of my tongue. But, it won't come out. My first memory of this happening or of having a migraine for that matter, was when I was 13 yrs old. My mom was sick with the flu and was lying down on the couch. She asked me to hand her a pillow. Well, the pillows on our couch were quite small so, I wanted to ask her how many pillows she wanted and no matter how very hard I tried, the closest I could get to asking that question was "what numbers are they?" VERY frustrating! 5 minutes later the left side of my head hurt so bad I thought I would die. I layed down and slept awhile and woke up just fine. For me, the migraines all coincided with the panic. The first panic attack I remember having was about a week after that first migrain...LIFE, it can be strange but, it is beautifull...Peace....Erin

[erinkj]

Originally Posted by Aeroman

I woke up early this morning quite dizzy but it has subsided. I was laying in bed while the room spun. I am thinking because I dropped the blood pressure meds 2 weeks ago, I am feeling some sort of weird symptoms? I stopped using them because I am finding ways to get my libido back....

What med were you on for you BP? Many of them are calcium channel blockers which need to be tapered off. This recent symptoms can be due to stopping the BP med. Were you by any chance on Clonodine? Also, does your dr know you quit taking it? Not sure if you are aware or not but, calcium channel blocking med's are also used as "mood" med's! Clonodine especially. They effect brain chemicals. Let me know please! ....Peace...Erin

[erinkj]

Science News
How Anti-Depressants Create New Brain Cells
ScienceDaily (Mar. 14, 2007) — Antidepressants increase the presence of a growth factor in the brain, which then leads to a proliferation of new cells, according to a study by Yale School of Medicine researchers in this week’s Proceedings of the National Academy of science
The study describes for the first time the molecular mechanisms and the identity of the protein, vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF), which underlie the actions of antidepressants on new cell growth and behavior.
“One in five Americans have depression, yet the neural mechanisms underlying depression and the actions of antidepressants remain unknown,” said Ronald Duman, senior author and professor of psychiatry at Yale. “These findings provide important, fundamental, and new information on the actions of these highly prescribed drugs. The data also has implications for understanding many stress related disorders.”
Duman and Jennifer Warner-Schmidt, a former graduate student at Yale now at the Rockefeller Institute, found in a rodent study that VEGF levels are increased by chronic administration of either of two major classes of antidepressant medications. Conversely, blocking the effects of VEGF prevents new cell birth in response to the medications.
Duman said recent studies demonstrated that stress decreases the expression of VEGF in the hippocampus, a region of the brain involved in the control of emotion, mood, learning, and memory, and this could contribute to the atrophy and loss of cells caused by stress and depression.
In prior groundbreaking research Duman found that antidepressants increase the expression of growth factors in the hippocampus and other regions of the brain. Duman also found that antidepressants increase the birth of new neurons in the hippocampus.
According to Duman, future studies could look at VEGF and related pathways for genetic mutations that might contribute to depression, or make a person more susceptible to depression. VEGF signaling also could provide targets for the development of novel, faster acting, and more effective therapeutic agents.

[erinkj]

Popular Antidepressants Boost Brain Growth, Hopkins Scientists Report
ScienceDaily (Dec. 20, 2005) — The beneficial effects of a widely used class of antidepressants might be the result of increased nerve-fiber growth in key parts of the brain, according to a Johns Hopkins study being published in the January 2006 issue of the Journal of Neurochemistry.
The study on rats, led by Vassilis E. Koliatsos, M.D., a neuropathologist at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, found that selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) increase the density of nerve-impulse-carrying axons in the frontal and parietal lobes of the neocortex and part of the limbic brain which control the sense of smell, emotions, motivation, and organs that work reflexively such as the heart, intestines and stomach. “It appears that SSRI antidepressants rewire areas of the brain that are important for thinking and feeling, as well as operating the autonomic nervous system,” said Koliatsos.
Axons are long, filament-shaped extensions of neurons that, together with myelin, are the main constituents of nerves. Axons conduct chemically driven nerve impulses away from the cell body toward a narrow gap known as a synapse. Among the chemicals involved are such monoamines as norepinephrine and serotonin, which, at the synapse, are transferred to another neuron.
Antidepressants, such as Prozac, Zoloft and Paxil, have long been thought to exert their clinical effects by increasing synaptic concentrations of serotonin and norepinephrine, enhancing or stimulating their transference.
“But our findings -- that serotonin reuptake modulators increase the density of nerve synapses, especially in the front part of the brain - may offer a better explanation of why antidepressants are effective and why they take time to work,” according to Koliatsos.
For example, antidepressants increase synaptic monoamines within hours, and the regulatory effects on receptors are complete within a few days, yet clinically meaningful results from antidepressants usually require a two- to four-week delay.
“This disparity between simple pharmacological effects and clinical experience might be due to the time it takes for serotonin axons to grow,” Koliatsos said.
“For the patient, this hypothesis provides more tangible evidence of a real effect in the brain,” he added.
In the Hopkins study, Koliatsos and his team gave either the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor fluoxetine (Prozac), the selective serotonin reuptake enhancer tianeptine (a drug approved only for human use in France) or the selective norepineprine reuptake inhibitor desipramine, a so-called tricyclic antidepressant, to groups of rats for four weeks and studied anatomical patterns of serotonin stimulation on various parts of the brain. The results showed that fluoxetine and tianeptine, but not desipramine, increased the density of serotonin axons in the frontal and parietal neocortex and certain limbic cortical and subcortical areas.
One possible explanation for this action is the brain-derived growth factor (BDNF). BDNF is regulated by levels of serotonin and is known to be a prime candidate for causing serotonin axon growth, Koliatsos said.
In general, the relationships between brain serotonin concentrations and BDNF expression are very complex, but previous studies have suggested that both higher (such as caused by serotonin reuptake inhibitors) and lower (such as effected by tianeptine) concentrations of free serotonin might induce BDNF expression in such brain regions as the frontal and parietal cortex.
The researchers caution that since a previous study failed to show a correlation between tianeptine treatment and BDNF levels, further investigation of the complex regulations of BDNF by antidepressants is needed.
Funding for this study came from the National Institute of Mental Health.
The study is currently available at the Journal of Neurochemistry Web site:
http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/j...?ref=0022-3042

Adapted from materials provided by Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions.

[auntybiotic]

Originally Posted by anti-drugs

I can relate with the dizziness. It has come back off and on for the last few weeks. Just when I thought I was finally done with it

Month 4 has been really hard for me. This month I am experiencing a lot of wierd symptoms that really freak me out. I have a lot of racing thoughts all the time. I can't seem to get my head to stop thinking. Then if I actually want to try and do something it takes forever to think it through. I have a lot of confussion and concentration problems. My memory is slowly coming back, but it's still got a long way to go

These symptoms really freak me out. I'm constantly worrying that there is permanant brain damage and I'll never be the same again My husband is constantly reinforcing that this is all from the Lex, but it's hard to believe when it's happening to you. Has this happened to any of you around month 4? Is this the mania Aunty was referring to in an earlier post. Please help.

Anti-Drugs

Look in Bach's Flower Essence in CHERRY PLUM. It will help the racing thoughs and constant worrying and any sucidal thoughts that may pop up...very safe and amazing. Google online and read more. You can order it thru any Vitamin Shoppe at about $8.00 a bottle.

[Aeroman]

Originally Posted by erinkj

What med were you on for you BP? Many of them are calcium channel blockers which need to be tapered off. This recent symptoms can be due to stopping the BP med. Were you by any chance on Clonodine? Also, does your dr know you quit taking it? Not sure if you are aware or not but, calcium channel blocking med's are also used as "mood" med's! Clonodine especially. They effect brain chemicals. Let me know please! ....Peace...Erin

I am on 3 (booo, I know). Lotrel, Diovan, and Tekturna. Doc didnt know, I wanted to do it temporarily to see if I got a better libido, hehehe.

[anti-drugs]

Hairy & Erin, Thanks for the reassurance! It is very frustrating at times but I'm glad to know I'm not the only one going through this. Your posts made me chuckle,(because I can relate). I needed that.
Thanks,
Anti-drugs

[anti-drugs]

Originally Posted by auntybiotic

Look in Bach's Flower Essence in CHERRY PLUM. It will help the racing thoughs and constant worrying and any sucidal thoughts that may pop up...very safe and amazing. Google online and read more. You can order it thru any Vitamin Shoppe at about $8.00 a bottle.

Thanks I'll look into that. I'm not big on herbal remedies, but I'll give it a shot.

Anti-drugs

[Aeroman]

i started back up on the blood pressure meds. Past two days I have been feeling HORRIBLE. My breathing has been tough, the dizziness is there but not as bad anymore, tension headaches, and anxious/tense feelings. I am soooo close in calling my shrink. But then, I keep telling myself, this is only temporary. I dont know about any of you but my symptoms tend to be more pronounced in the morning...the evenings tend to bring me some peace. I kid you not, I felt pretty good on Lexapro but I care for my marriage so much, I wanted to taper off it to get my libido back. Part of me thinks now I should of added Viagra to the Lexapro and taper slow off Lexapro.

I was thinking maybe my shrink could give me something to help with the withdrawals until its all out, not sure. i need to be that functioning man I used to be, especially for home and work. Maybe even a small dose of Prozac? I dunno...just venting.

[Aeroman]

Originally Posted by anti-drugs

Yes that's exactly how I feel! I'm constantly thinking about my withdrawals and can't seem to concentrate on anything else. If i miss speak or read a word incorrectly I automatically assume the worst. Does that make sense? Maybe that's part of the anxiety. I don't know. I just hope it passes. Thanks for helping.

Anti-Drugs

you almost have to accept your obsessive thinking for the time being as it will sooner or later stop. The book I have been reading from Dr. Claire Weekes has helped a lot...she states that the more you try to stop thinking about it, the more it will snatch on. So, for now, just say "Ok, I got withdrawals and I think about them...but I know my tired mind will eventually heal and let go". Something like that.

Yesterday and today have been the toughest ever in my life - I have never been so depressed before, I mean, VERY depressed to the point of thinking the worst. And I am not like that!!!!!!! Come on, this is only temporary!

[wherethehellami?]

Originally Posted by Hairyarmadillo

Anti-drugs I hated the obsessive thinking. I would be in the process of getting ready for work and then, out of the blue, would be thinking about things that I had not thought of for years! There were days I could not turn my thoughts off. Can also relate to difficulty in thinking and memory issues. I would start sentences and literally forget midways what I was thinking of. I have always had an extensive vocabulary but would find myself searching for the most basic words. At times, I would resort to using definitions. Fork wasn't one of the words I had trouble with, but for an example, during my seeking for words and using definitions, instead of saying for instance "May I have a fork?" I would say something like "May I have that thing with prongs to eat with?" Again, fork wasn't a word I had trouble with, but see what a long route I had to go to? But at times I could not think of words I wanted to use. Some of my happiest times that made me realize I was healing was when a big word popped out. I really felt like I had had a stroke. And typing!! It took fives times as long because I had to make my hands type instead of the instant process it usually is. When I was tired, it was worse. Again, I am not 100% at this point (approx 16 months),but there is so much improvement and I am sooooo close to normal. "I can see clearly now, the rain is gone" I promise you guys, it happens.

Hairy,

I know what you mean concerning the memory and vocabulary issues. I'm at about month 14 after my incident with cutting back too quickly and I'm still having short term and even long term memory problems (mostly short term though). My question is if you've seen a neurologist about these problems...and this is directed to everyone on here...has anyone received a brain scan or neurological assessment? I don't have health insurance right now but if I did I would definitely get examined.

[kafka]

hey everyone. i posted a while ago about trying to quit lexadont, so here's the update:

i have been off of it for 5 days now. the withdrawal symptoms hit me hardest during the evening, at which point i start to feel very dizzy/anxious. i took a .25 xanax (been trying to avoid any extra drug use if at all possible), and it helped a little.

here's what i've been feeling:

heart flutter? almost, like i feel my heart beat is a bit off. i'm certain that's attributed to anxiety?

headaches

loss of appetite

DIZZINESS/VERTIGO. the worst. if i go for a run, this remedies this. also drinking beer seems to help. i know, i know.

and again, sleep issues.

anyone else have these same symptoms?

i'm so ********************ing bound and determined to rid myself of this drug. i know i can do it.

[erinkj]

Originally Posted by wherethehellami?

Hairy,

I know what you mean concerning the memory and vocabulary issues. I'm at about month 14 after my incident with cutting back too quickly and I'm still having short term and even long term memory problems (mostly short term though). My question is if you've seen a neurologist about these problems...and this is directed to everyone on here...has anyone received a brain scan or neurological assessment? I don't have health insurance right now but if I did I would definitely get examined.

I have had 2 CT scans and 1 MRI (without contrast) since January with a complete neurological work up. (I have not had my serotonin or other brain chemicals tested though. That kind of testing is hard to come by, very few dr's do that) The reasons behind my scans and tests were due to increase in frequency and severity of migraine accompanied with stroke like neuro symptoms. ALL of my scans were clean and clear...granted, in my case they were looking primarily for bleeds and/or swelling in the brain which is about all a CT will show but, they did what is known as a 4 slice MRI ( when they do an MRI in "slices" they get a 3D picture of brain sections, like if you cut a tomato into slices) this test also was very clear and no abnormalities were found. And to my utter amazement, they actually saw a brain in my skull . Even though the tests were ordered due to migraine, the Dr was aware of my SSRI history (Remember that migraine is closely linked to conditions of panic, anxiety, depression and so on) so, they look for ANYTHING unussual....They found nothing wrong. Don't let the worry get to you, the memory problems are only short term and most likely due to chemical changes taking place in your brain ie: healing from withdrawals. The entire endocrine system is so very complex that it is much like a line of dominoes. When you knock over one domino, it sets off a chain reaction causing all of them to fall over! Many of the chemicals in our brains signal the production of our hormones. For example: If certain chemicals are to high or to low they can signal the HPA that you have to much or not enough testosterone thereby effecting the production of that hormone. (not saying that is happening, it is just an example) However, low testosterone levels in men are associated with depression, anxiety, fatigue and...you guessed it, memory function. As well as a host of other equally unpleasant symptoms.... I know...Why can't our brains be easy? If you opt to spend money out of pocket for any testing, I highly recommend that you have your hormone panels done via saliva method. Sounds goofy, I know...MEN never think of this angle but, we all know that SSRI affect brain chemicals which affect hormones which affect EVERYTHING else! My husband is 45 yrs old and going through andropause (google that) we have been dealing with the hormonal aspect for 2 yrs now so, believe me; I know what I am talking about! I hope that helps any....Peace...Erin