[SchnauzerTime]

Thanks for the support . I'm glad to know in a way that month 4 is hard...cause that makes me somewhat "normal" I guess, LOL. I've heard with Paxil withdrawal alot of times it doesn't get much better til around month 8. What is the "norm" for when it starts to ease up some? I've heard alot on here with Lex say around 6 months.

I'm doing better today though...the Dramamine helps a ton. I didn't sleep all day like I've been doing. I actually read all day so it's good I stayed awake and I'm eating a little more. The Dramamine is helping to get my appetite back some...so anyway, I see some hope now for me. I'll pull through this somehow (and throttle my doctor when I do!).

I don't know if I can forgive the doctors that put me on this...you are a better person than I am. I feel like shoving this stuff down their throats and giving THEM withdrawal! LOL...I'm not very forgiving going through this! But you are very sweet and that is a good view to have...when you harbor negative energy it's definatly not good for healing, very good point there EM . Hope you feel better soon and those iron pills work for ya!

[kickqueen]

I weened myslef off of Lexapro from a 2 1/2 year 20mg. dosage way too fast by tapering down over 1 month. It's been 1 month that I have been completely free of Lexapro - but definitely not free of the withdrawal issues. I'm a work out finatic and didn't see any weight gain over the first 2 years - of course, I was on Weight Watchers and working out constantly - but 6 months ago I started noticing a substantial weight gain - to the tune of 20 pounds in 6 months with diet and vigorous exercise!
Now here's the big bummer - since going off of Lex, I havent' lost a pound. I saw a nutritionist, had my adrenals tested, and found that they are in horrible shape. My cortisol levels are the complete opposite of what they should be as well. I also get shaky and dizzy right before I eat. To top it all off, I have major hypothyroid symptoms as well. Needless to say, I'm seeing an endocrinologist this Thursday.
Just wanted to shout out to all of you who haven't lost any weight since coming off Lexapro. Your body might still be in that "vicious cycle" of harboring fat, just like when you were on the pills. Get checked out - at least my your local nutritionist. He was able to do saliva testing that provided some very informative results - and gave me hope that my body CAN get back to a normal state!

[kickqueen]

Oh, and I also wanted to thank everyone for their posts. All of you have been so wonderful. This board has been such a source of strength and the information is priceless. I started reading after I weened off completely (I would've weened off more slowly if I had found the board before) and it really let me know that I wasn't the only one having problems with Lexapro. I'm far from out of the woods as far as withdrawal goes, but, again, I am so glad to have you guys!

[auntybiotic]

Originally Posted by kickqueen

I weened myslef off of Lexapro from a 2 1/2 year 20mg. dosage way too fast by tapering down over 1 month. It's been 1 month that I have been completely free of Lexapro - but definitely not free of the withdrawal issues. I'm a work out finatic and didn't see any weight gain over the first 2 years - of course, I was on Weight Watchers and working out constantly - but 6 months ago I started noticing a substantial weight gain - to the tune of 20 pounds in 6 months with diet and vigorous exercise!
Now here's the big bummer - since going off of Lex, I havent' lost a pound. I saw a nutritionist, had my adrenals tested, and found that they are in horrible shape. My cortisol levels are the complete opposite of what they should be as well. I also get shaky and dizzy right before I eat. To top it all off, I have major hypothyroid symptoms as well. Needless to say, I'm seeing an endocrinologist this Thursday.
Just wanted to shout out to all of you who haven't lost any weight since coming off Lexapro. Your body might still be in that "vicious cycle" of harboring fat, just like when you were on the pills. Get checked out - at least my your local nutritionist. He was able to do saliva testing that provided some very informative results - and gave me hope that my body CAN get back to a normal state!

Amour Thryoid is far safer then synthroid for treatment. Synthroid is a synthetic replacement and sometimes makes withdrawals worse. the amour throid is a natural replacement. I am not a doctor so please question your doctor.
I am curious as your test results for the 24 hour cortisol testing, would you mind posting them and how your doctor plans on treating this. Thanks.

[skyer]

Hi Hopeful and EM,

Sorry I've been a stranger. And sorry if this post is choppy but I'm very tired. Anyway, I managed to open my store. I'm happy about it and have good help...it also gives me purpose now and it's nice to do something fun, not to mention my hope that it will give me an income at some point. I couldn't do it without free rent (family-owned store front) and I'm lucky I have great help. Plus, I'm only open Fri, Sat and Sun until I get better. So far, I've had a great response. Still, it's been a bit much for me. I've had some imsomnia due to too much stimulation. I'm trying to rest Mon - Thurs, but of course there is always something to do...grocery shopping, etc. Unfortunately, I can't do it alone, yet, my fiance goes with me. That in itself breaks my heart and I wonder when I will be normal again and when I will be able to function on my own. It's been 11 months and just this week I feel like I've taken a big step back. My missing sleep is causing more depersonalization. I mean, my sleep is screwed up anyway (I think I sleep too light or miss some stage of sleep) but when I miss any sleep I'm just a mess.

I can't believe you brought up the low iron, EM. My N.D. suspects I might have low iron and I'm getting a blood test on Thursday. What do we do about it? We can't take B12, right (during withdrawal)? What are you going to do about it? I have to see how my test turns out.

Sorry you guys are feeling bad...I'm right there with you. I'm thankful for the progress I've made...happy the withdrawal depression/apathy is gone, as well as many physical symptoms, but it's hard to stay upbeat when withdrawal still beats you down everyday and you're nearing the 1-year mark. You know?

xoxo

[Aussiegirl]

Originally Posted by mcnary1under

My thanks to those who have posted what they have been going through. After just reading many posts, I feel like a great weight has been taken off to see that others share in these symptoms and that there is support. I too have been on Lexapro for 1.5 years, and have just started to wein myself off. I cut down from 20mg/day to 10mg/day, and just recently went cold turkey 4 days ago, and have been experiencing many withdrawal symptoms that are the same as what others are going through......sweating, dizziness, irratibility, trouble concentrating, and fatigue. Because of the extremness in some of these symptoms, I am going to go back on it at 10mg/day, and then proceed to wein myself off by going to 5mg/day for a while, and then reduce it (hopefully) to every other day, and see how this works.

My thanks again to all you have posted. It has been a great help. Good luck to all.

Rob

mcnary1under

Hang in there, your symptoms are common with all of us. I pretty much did the same thing as you (cold turkey after 10mgs). I've been fully off for about 4 weeks now and I'm still getting all the symptoms although the intensity is slowly, slowly decreasing. The nausea didn't start for me until the 2nd week off or so, so you may get that later on.

Welcome to Lex-World! Or should I say Lex-Less World!

Regards

[Aussiegirl]

Originally Posted by SchnauzerTime

Thanks for the advice on nausea...I'm going to order some sea bands right now...I hope they work!

Update on myself: This morning the nausea hasn't kicked in yet so that's a wonderful thing...I haven't eaten yet though, but we'll see. Normally I wake up and it's there in like 5 minutes, so this is an improvement! 3rd day off birth control pills though and bleeding heavy again, but oh well...I have to stop bleeding sometime right? LOL.

Anyways, I hope your daughter gets through this soon and I will pray for her and for you too...it's tough to watch someone you love go through this. Thanks so much for starting this forum Aunty...it's been a life-saver for me and so have you.

Schnauzertime

Have you been to the doctor yet about the bleeding?? Please go see someone, you may have endometriosis but you must get it checked out and diagnosed properly!

xx

[HolleyGirl]

Originally Posted by SchnauzerTime

How long have you been on Cymbalta now? If it hasn't been longer than 6 weeks consider going back to Lexapro and maybe taking half and half...half dose of Lex with half dose of Cymbalta to ease yourself onto it better.

Why I say this is I'm going through cold turkey withdrawal from switching from Paxil to Lexapro...the Lexapro never "kicked in" to ease my withdrawal so it's like I'm having full-blown Paxil withdrawal (I also cold turkied Wellbutrin at the same time) and I'm going through a horrible time right now. See if there is any way to ease more slowly into the new medicine so you won't get stuck with withdrawal from Lexapro.

Ok a long story made short. Certain family member's(especially the one that gave birth to me)really tend to get on my nerves and test my temper. Soooo, my husband said that I needed some "happy medicine" as he calls it, went to doctor and was put on Wellbutrin 150mg 3x a day. He didn't seem to really see any difference in me after 2-3 months, so was changed to Lexpro 20mg 1x a day. He noticed & so did I a change in my moods, temper, just overall be able to handle things and not fly off the handle at almost everything. But after taking it for the 4 1/2 months, all of a sudden I felt it wasn't working, all those nasty,crazy feelings started coming back! My husband thought that I wasn't feeling a high feeling anymore, he didn't realize that I never felt no high feeling in my head or whatever. So I went off of it for about 1 1/2 wks actually and my husband told me to get back on something or he was going to kill me! LOL!!! That is if I didn't get to him or anyone else first! LOL!!! Seriously though if I didn't know better and didn't have some sence, that is the way I felt and might have ended up hurting someone, instead it was always verbally that I did it. Then another doctor had given me a sample of the Cymbalta 60mg & said to take it 1x a day. But like I said during the transition of all of this all those moods and feelings have came back. I am now having these really weird feelings in my head. Like my brain doesn't want to slow down, for the first few day's I couldn't hardly do nothing but sleep, I was so sleepy all the time, but now I can't hardly go to sleep or stay asleep for thinking about things. I think I am going crazy now. All of this since Jan. Don't get me wrong, I really am a nice,careing,compassionate person. So you or anyone know what I am going through and how to fix it?

Holleygirl

[mcnary1under]

Originally Posted by SchnauzerTime

I agree with Aunty...you should at least go back to the 10mg and do SLOW tapers of 10 percent each time of your current dose with liquid Lexapro. How long have you been off the full dose of 20mg? If it's been a shorter period than 6 weeks you may have to go all the way back (or close to) 20mg before you feel relief. Did you ever stabilize at 10mg? In other words, were you sick feeling at 10mg or did you get to the point where all the withdrawals were gone? If withdrawals were gone at 10mg then go back to that dose and do the slow 10 percent tapering. I explained it a page back I think for a couple new members. If you taper too fast you will definatly get very sick and may be sick for up to 18 months.

Speaking from experience, as I'm in my 5th month almost of switching cold turkey from Paxil to Lexapro and cold turkeying Wellbutrin. I'm having extreme nausea all the time and anxiety, restless legs, nightmares, diarea...just to name a few fun withdrawal symptoms! So taper SLOWLY if you want to avoid extreme sickness and missed work, etc.

P.S. TONS of doctors say there is no withdrawal coming off these meds and that it's "safe" to taper fast...they are wrong. We are all here to testify to that!

Thank you. I switched from 20mg/day to 10mg/day about 3 months ago, and had no symptoms. I became over zealous as a result and tried cold turkey. I started back on the 10mg yesterday. After about a week or so, I am going to try to cut it down to 5mg/day and see how that works.

Again, my thanks.......its nice to talk to people who understand what I am going through.

[mcnary1under]

Originally Posted by Aussiegirl

mcnary1under

Hang in there, your symptoms are common with all of us. I pretty much did the same thing as you (cold turkey after 10mgs). I've been fully off for about 4 weeks now and I'm still getting all the symptoms although the intensity is slowly, slowly decreasing. The nausea didn't start for me until the 2nd week off or so, so you may get that later on.

Welcome to Lex-World! Or should I say Lex-Less World!

Regards

Thanks so much. I wish the Lexapro website had withdrawal symptoms on there. I have tried researching this for a while with little success, and then just by chance found this forum.

Take care.

[mcnary1under]

Originally Posted by auntybiotic

Gee reading your posts brought tears to my eyes....thanks for the warm than you and thanks for the prayers.

Rob,

You may want to slowly wean off after you reinstate the 10 Mg because the worst may be yet to come. Decreasing by 10% may take longer but in the long run you actually feel better sooner then if you reduce by 50% as you plan to do and skip days. Cold turkeying which is actually what a 50% decrease in essence is........can take 18 months of waxing amd waning of symtoms to get over. Listen to those that are going thru what you are attempting to do and please learn from their misery.

Good luck and welcome.

Aunty,
From what I have read on the posts, it sounds like you started this forum.

You have my eternal thanks. Its nice to talk to people who understand what I am going through.

[SchnauzerTime]

Guys...

PLEASE listen to me!!! If you go faster than a 10 percent taper you will have bad WITHDRAWALS. They may not kick in at first...mine didn't hit me really bad til 4 months off the meds.

McNar

PLEASE taper at 10 percent intervals...dont' taper until you feel normal and healthy again. You will need awhile to stabilize on the 10mg for now. It will take longer than a week...maybe a couple weeks to a month. Then and ONLY then, when you feel good again, taper. If you go down to 5mg, that's a 50 percent taper and you will definatly be sick. Go down 10 percent from 10mg...so your first taper will be 9mg. Stay on that til stable...then your next taper will be 10 percent of 9, which is 8.1mg and so on. Get the liquid Lex from your doctor or make your own liquid...I explained it a page or so back. Taper to 5mg if you want...but be prepared to be sick for along time...not just 3-4 weeks like people say. Those people haven't been off it for too long and I GUARENTEE when that 3rd or 4th month comes around they will be wishing they tapered slower.

Everyone Else

Read what I said to McNar. Please believe me. I want to help and not see people go through what I and others are going through...you all have a chance to do the best thing for your body and taper slowly. The fast withdrawal WILL catch up to you in time. You will get bad withdrawals if you cold turkey for 3-4 weeks...then the next couple months you will seem fine. Then in month 3 or 4, you will get HIT HARD with horrible withdrawals that usually last for cold turkey people for at least a year...go read any of the other forums about people that tapered too fast...Paxil Progress for one...those people are still sick even after a year. Please do the best thing for your body!

[elizabethmaria]

Skyer,
yes, low iron is not good - but what do you mean about what to do about it? ... I mean, well, you take iron!!.. sorry, but I have to be a little funny! .. My B12 is great - like at the highest end, and other things too - that doesn't mean much - you can have all different kinds of anemia - iron deficiency anemia, B12 def. anemia, all causing low hemoglobin/etc.. or you can just have iron deficiency, and not be anemic.. like me..
I take 324mg ferrous sulfate tablets/3x a day -- but I'm quite low! that's what I was prescribed earlier.. should take a couple weeks to begin to boost up, then you continue taking until you reach a healthy level 3-6 months -- then, a multivitamin w/ plenty of iron should be fine - unless there is something else wrong that is causing it to be lost... you don't want to take B12 unless you're deficient, I hope your doctor didn't suggest that... you should be tested first... Iron deficiency is very common in women our age - so it's not unusual - but does need to be treated...

Schnauzertime -- just concerned - are you still bleeding heavily? that's a big sign of iron deficiency - plus the dizziness, nausea, hairloss, depression etc.. seems silly that we bleed tons more when we NEED the blood, but that's what happens, I'm livin proof of that! Please consider checking it out - it could make you feel tons better - it's hard to heal if iron is low, real hard, and it's so easy to find out, just a few minutes, and they'll tell you in a couple days... It really made me go downhill... and there's no way up except supplementing til your body regains it's ability to absorb again, otherwise, it just keeps dropping... it's well known that ssri's cause anemia too...just a thought! I don't want to pester I'm just concerned!! I'm probably totally wrong anyways, usually am, but that's what I'd do ... anything for an easy fix!!

[kimberoo]

Aunty

Thanks for the reply about your daughter. I'm so sorry that she's is suffering now. It's a shame that such small variations in dosage can have such a long lasting effect on her. You are both in our prayers. Wow, the last few pages were an ode to you, how nice was that? You are so deserving of it, you have been so good to so many.

As for my good news, we have an appointment on Friday with Benny's doc to discuss the p450 testing results. How I pray that it shows that he is a slow metabolizer and.or is having an interaction. I swear if nothing comes of this I'll scream!!

Bad news is that he is getting worse than better. Today is the 23rd day on 15mg and he's been noticing increasing zaps and brain pulling types of feelings all over again. Why can't he just stabilize? What does it feel like to be stable? I'm certain it can't include the zaps and brain thingys. I'm almost thinking that he may need to start tapering again but I'm scared to go through that hell all over again with him, what if I'm wrong and he suffers needlessly.

Aunty, should he be feeling like this at this point? What do you think?

I'll let you know how Friday goes. I'll see if he'll give me a copy of the results so I can be more specific when I tell you.

Until Friday.......

Kimberoo

[kickqueen]

Thanks for the Armour Thyroid advice. Your posts have been so informative while I've been on this "journey." My Cortisol Rhythym was low in the morning (6), lowered to -1 at noon, rose to 10 at 4 p.m. and was at 9 at midnight. Not exactlly your start at 25 and end at 1 "usual." My nutritionist gave me the test, and due to the results put me on: Enzymatic's Thyroid Formula (formerly L-Tyrosine ), Enzymatic's Adrenal Stress End, Hypothalmex supplement and Symplex supplement by Standard Process, Inc. I've been on the Thyroid formula for a long time (because I know I need it), so that was nothing new, but the others were. I've been taking these for about 2 weeks and still haven't lost a pound (on a 1200-1400 cal/day diet with about 500-600 burned in cardio exercise). He also advised me to increase my protein and lower my carbs, which I have been doing - kind of the South Beach Diet way. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm seeing an endocrinologist tomorrow. And I'll definitelly make my case for Armour (thank you very much), I just hope he's the kind of doc that looks beyond the blood. My last Thyroid blood test showed that my numbers were just at the bottom of normal. However, just about every woman on my mom's side of the family has had hypo issues - usually with goiters, and I have all of the symptoms. I don't want it to come to that. I just desperately want my energy back!

[carolleah]

Today I went to see my therapist and she explained to me that you can recover from depression. This discussion was in the context of the how's and why's of getting off antidepressants. I have come to understand that for many people the drugs are lifesaving and help them cope through tremendous ordeals, unlike for me they were a nightmare with side effects and causing the worst two years in my entire life. From everything that I had read, I came to understand that depression is a lifelong illness and one is vulnerable to more depressive episodes after experiencing just one. She explained to me that this is no longer the thinking. It was the old medical thinking that depression was a forever thing always waiting there to strike. She explained that people recover and go on with their lives. BUT I believe that you have to have all of the elements in place to not have it happen again, such as a support system, one sponsor that you can turn to at times of desperation, etc. I would like to discuss in another email devoted entirely to it what has helped me, though I still struggle daily and probably will for another year since I tapered so quickly.....It's funny, I had a discussion with my young son today who has been through so much tragedy in the last two years because of the chaos in my life. We talked about antidepressants. He felt that it was wrong of me to encourage all people on the drugs to get off. I explained that the drugs take away your ability to cry and to feel empathy. He responded that that may be what people need for a short amount of time until they could grow.....I agreed with him. And now understand that it is wrong to encourage people to get off these drugs. They need to come to a decision like that on their own. But I have to tell you that today I cried three times. Once when my therapist gave me the name of someone who is willing to be my mentor. Once when taking my son to the hair salon to get his hair dyed. And lastly, doing a daily good deed of donating a book to a good cause. The feeling of being choked up and able to cry was unbelievable. It gave me the encouragement that the struggle is worth it, especially since a year seems so so far away. Well, have to go now. Take care all and will write again tomorrow!

[kickqueen]

Your post really hit home. One of the first things I realized when coming off Lexapro is that I didn't cry for over 2 years. I started on Lexapro when my son was diagnosed with cancer. I didn't even cry at some of the funerals of children I attended. I didn't cry when my son was getting chemo or having surgery. I never realized how Lexapro would numb the other good, healthy feelings that we need to express.....I DO cry now when I thank the Lord that our son is in remission...

[Aussiegirl]

Originally Posted by SchnauzerTime

Guys...

PLEASE listen to me!!! If you go faster than a 10 percent taper you will have bad WITHDRAWALS. They may not kick in at first...mine didn't hit me really bad til 4 months off the meds.

McNar

PLEASE taper at 10 percent intervals...dont' taper until you feel normal and healthy again. You will need awhile to stabilize on the 10mg for now. It will take longer than a week...maybe a couple weeks to a month. Then and ONLY then, when you feel good again, taper. If you go down to 5mg, that's a 50 percent taper and you will definatly be sick. Go down 10 percent from 10mg...so your first taper will be 9mg. Stay on that til stable...then your next taper will be 10 percent of 9, which is 8.1mg and so on. Get the liquid Lex from your doctor or make your own liquid...I explained it a page or so back. Taper to 5mg if you want...but be prepared to be sick for along time...not just 3-4 weeks like people say. Those people haven't been off it for too long and I GUARENTEE when that 3rd or 4th month comes around they will be wishing they tapered slower.

Everyone Else

Read what I said to McNar. Please believe me. I want to help and not see people go through what I and others are going through...you all have a chance to do the best thing for your body and taper slowly. The fast withdrawal WILL catch up to you in time. You will get bad withdrawals if you cold turkey for 3-4 weeks...then the next couple months you will seem fine. Then in month 3 or 4, you will get HIT HARD with horrible withdrawals that usually last for cold turkey people for at least a year...go read any of the other forums about people that tapered too fast...Paxil Progress for one...those people are still sick even after a year. Please do the best thing for your body!

Schnauzertime

Oohh please don't say that! I have already been off for 4 weeks (is that too late to go back onto the lowest dose?) - Aunty??

I can't get the liquid lexapro here, so I'm pretty much stuffed aren't I?!

I have resigned from my job and will have to find something else in the next few weeks and feeling like this.... I'm freaking OUT and now I hear its gonna get worse!!! Please don't say that... Has anybody NOT got the bad withdrawals after 3-4 months??

Help, I'm having a meltdown...

[Aussiegirl]

Originally Posted by mcnary1under

Thanks so much. I wish the Lexapro website had withdrawal symptoms on there. I have tried researching this for a while with little success, and then just by chance found this forum.

Take care.

McNary

No worries. Here is a link to a site which someone posted a while back, it pretty much describes the full gammut of SSRI withdrawals...

http://www.answers.com/topic/ssri-di...ation-syndrome

Good luck.

[Julia77]

Originally Posted by SchnauzerTime

Yes...you should really get back to taking it every day at your current dose. Get the liquid form...or if you don't want to do that, take your whole pill...don't split it...and crush it finely with a mortar and pestle then get a 5mL syringe and a 1mL syringe free from your pharmacist. Whatever your whole pill is mg wise mix with the same ammount liquid in ML with the syringe. EXAMPLE: Say your pill is a 10mg pill...crush it finely until it is all powder, no chunks, in a mortar and pestle then mix that with 10ML of cranberry juice. Now you have your own liquid Lexapro...it is safe this way, MUCH safer this way than a pill cutter. Then, if you want to get to 2.5mL/mg take out 7.5mL with the syringes and throw it away...NEVER save it, it will go bad. Swallow the 2.5ML and there you have it!

You should do no more than 10 percent tapers like I was telling Peterjp80. Follow the advice I gave him about tapering slowly. Yes...2.5mg is not much, BUT to your brain that is a FULL dose and what your body is used to. If you cut it in half, it's taking half from your brain and will be a bigger jolt and more withdrawals in the long run. You will have to go 10 percent tapers if you want few withdrawals in the future...even down from say .9mL to .8mL would be a taper. If you do what you are doing now you may be o.k. for awhile but sometimes withdrawals don't "hit" you until a couple months being off the medicine.

I'm in my 4th month off Paxil and Wellbutrin cold turkey and am so nauseous I can't eat...I wake up every day with extreme nausea and wishing to die because I'm so sick feeling. I'm so sick because I cold turkied ...if you keep doing what you are doing now it is essentially a cold turkey and you could have a very hard withdrawal like I'm going through in the later months. Please reconsider and get the liquid (or make your own) and go SLOW. Good luck .

P.S. The "dust" is not accurate at all and every day you are fluctuating the dosage which will make you sick with withdrawal...also NEVER do the every other day thing like you are...same thing, you are fluctuating the dose and it will give you withdrawal. The liquid is the BEST way to avoid fluctuations and keep you at a stable dose to keep you from getting sick.

SchnauzerTime:

My thanks to you and all of those participating in this discussion, it's really making those hard days easier!
I would gladly increase and follow your advice to go slower, but I know from my previous experience that 'playing' with the dose brings about realms of depression for me..really big time. I experienced it this Christmas when I went off 2.5 mg and had to go back. I am afraid to do it again.

My question is - when you guys say here that withdrawals can last up to 18 months, how do you know they are withdrawals and not old illnesses creeping in again? The problem with me is that withdrawals seem to overlap with initial reasons I was put on this med; I get waves of dizziness, tons of anxiety, insomnia, etc. Those were the symptoms for which I was put on this medication....

[Aussiegirl]

Originally Posted by bodyelectric

Thanks again. I'm no expert, but I do like to research, so I'll use your compliments as license to write another really long post or two.

Your malfunctioning pineal gland, vivid dreams, sleeping problems, and the Lexapro/serotonin connection

Can't sleep, not even tired, so I'm following the white rabbit tonight, and the more I find out, the more revealing it is. This rabbit hole goes deep, and it has everything to do with Alice in Wonderland.

There is good reason why we're feeling the symptoms we are. The good news is, it's all in your head. The bad news is, you're not imagining it. Or maybe that's the good news. Anyway, your brain is messed up. That should be no surprise. But wait...there's more...

Low levels of serotonin in the frontal lobes explain a lot of our withdrawal symptoms -- bad memory, poor judgement, restlessness, lethargy, outbursts or manic behavior, dizziness, "different" feeling depression, psychopathic and sexually uncharacteristic behavior.

Many of us have had other side effects, also. I haven't gotten to the bottom of the visual problems and "brain zaps" yet, but we have time.

Then there's the sleeping problems. Difficulty sleeping. Vivid dreams so real it takes awhile to realize they were only dreams. Dreamlife that seems very real and waking life that doesn't seem as real as it should. Sleepwalking and acting out dreams. Sound familiar to anyone?

Lexapro has messed up, for the time being, your pineal gland. It's a small blob in the center of your brain where a lot of serotonergic activity (reactions involving serotonin in one way or another) takes place -- or at least it's supposed to when Lexapro isn't interfering.

Lexapro is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. That means that Lexapro keeps serotonin bouncing back and forth across your brain, which means you don't have to keep producing so much serotonin all the time to feel good. You don't have to keep producing so much seratonin, because not much is "reuptaken" (it's not English, but you get the drift).

It's a great idea, especially for people who don't have enough serotonin in the first place. (As an aside, I found some genetic work that claims that alcoholics and people with panic/anxiety disorders have a gene that prevents "normal" metabolization of serotonin. For alcoholics, at least, it seems to be related to your body's inability to make B6 properly, so add plenty in your diet. And though beer has B6, I think, that's probably not the road to take. Funny how we crave what our body needs, even if it makes us crazy or kills us.)

So this plan is a great idea. The problem is, the human body was not designed (or evolved, take your pick) to work that way. Think of serotonin as aluminum foil. And think of Lexapro as mandatory recycling. You are a pineal gland. No matter how many times you use the aluminum foil, you're not allowed to throw it away. You have to keep reusing it, over and over. And in the meantime, because there are no customers anymore, Reynolds goes out of business. Plus you've had to spend so much time figuring out what to do with this same piece of aluminum foil, you've had to let many of your obligations slide. On the other hand, you've had no choice but to deal with this now nasty piece of foil, so you have specialized and become a real used foil expert.

You get sick of it all and move someplace away from Lexapro, your recycling tyrant. You go to Panama, a tax haven where the weather's always good, the beach is great, no hurricanes plus cheap drinks. And no recycling. Life is good, until you cook dinner. There's no foil because you threw that last piece away when you fired the recycling Nazi...and the foil companies went out of business, and by now that's the only thing you know how to deal with. What a catch-22.

I believe in recycling, but only to a point. I think when it comes to the pineal gland, that's pushing recycling too far. Sometimes you need to throw the foil away and tear off a fresh sheet. Just like your pineal gland should be able to throw away serotonin when it doesn't need it, then get some fresh when it needs it again. Besides, your pineal gland has some other really important things it needs to do besides being locked down by this seratonin recycling business. But it can't because of our old friend Lexapro.

Besides its serotonin "monitoring" function, the pineal gland is the only gland in your body that converts serotonin into melatonin. But it only does it at certain times of the day. Like plants, humans have certain chemical processes we carry out in the daytime, and others we need to do at night. It's called circadian rhythm, or circadian cycle. Or in plain English, your body clock. It's why we need sleep in the first place -- so our body can take care of the things it can't do while we're driving and yapping on our cell phones.

The pineal gland keeps serotonin going by day, allowing you to do your daily stuff you need to do -- like function without troublesome brain zaps or uncontrollable car-kicking. Then it's time to "reuptake" the seratonin and convert some of it to melatonin so your body can carry out its night-time functions, like sleep. But because Lexapro doesn't allow this to happen properly, because the serotonin keeps bouncing -- back and forth, back and forth -- melatonin takes a back seat and your circadian rhythm goes haywire. The line between waking consciousness and dreamlife can become blurred, and sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. Your body's not sure what time it is...is it time to get up and do stuff, or is it time to dream? It might do both at once.

Welcome to Wonderland.

My question is, following this logic, why then were we able to sleep (some of us) while taking Lexapro, but not when we came off? This is what I think the answer might be, though I can't find research to back it: Some serotonin is still available for conversion to melatonin while we take Lexapro. When we stop taking Lexapro, there is a dramatic drop in available serotonin for conversion to melatonin. Taking a melatonin supplement should really help you sleep and dream normally after taking it for a few days. No promises, but that would make sense.

There is more to the story.

This has been proven. (Getting tired now, so I won't hunt the study -- if you're interested I'll try to find it again.) Sunlight triggers some reactions that help you convert certain chemicals into serotonin. This makes perfect sense, especially because low serotonin is also the culprit in seasonal affective disorder. Pale white people (people with little melatonin in their skin) need at least 15 minutes of direct sunlight a day, according to one researcher. She also states that people with darker skin pigments need more, depending on how pigmented you are. By the way, creams can block those processes, so you will need a short unprotected time without cream. I don't know if cream plus a longer exposure does the trick. I think there's no coincidence there between sunlight, serotonin production, melatonin, sleep, skin, and mood. Actually, I think it's quite amazing.

It's no wonder, then, is it, that people of northern European descent, who traditionally lived in northern climes where there is much less sunlight at certain times of the year, are very light colored with little melatonin to protect them but need less light, and those of us descended from Africans or South Asians, for example -- people who live farther south by the equator, where there is plenty of light year-round, have a darker complexion with melatonin to protect us but we need longer exposures? Again, by design, by evolution or by coincidence, you pick. But either way it's beautiful. We humans are amazing creatures.

Bodyelectric

Are you still there? I just read a post you made back in 2005 (page 16) and thought I'd email to say how insightful and well written it was, you've basically summed up exactly how I feel! Thank you so much for your research and for being more of a 'doctor' than my doctor was..

Because you haven't been in later posts, I am hoping that its because you have completely recovered - that would give hope to us all!

New posters should find his posts very comforting. Aunty adds some further information about caution using melatonin in a post directly following this.

Thanks again

[Aussiegirl]

Originally Posted by kickqueen

Your post really hit home. One of the first things I realized when coming off Lexapro is that I didn't cry for over 2 years. I started on Lexapro when my son was diagnosed with cancer. I didn't even cry at some of the funerals of children I attended. I didn't cry when my son was getting chemo or having surgery. I never realized how Lexapro would numb the other good, healthy feelings that we need to express.....I DO cry now when I thank the Lord that our son is in remission...

kickqueen & Carolleah

You've hit the nail on the head! I wasn't able to cry for years while on antidepressants, even in very sad situations. Last week my aunt died and I cried for her and because its such an unfamiliar experience to me I freaked out and the thought crossed my mind that the depression was back... it isn't, its just that I had forgotten that it is normal to shed tears at certain times...

Kickqueen - So sorry to hear of your pain in the last couple of years and I pray that your son makes a full recovery.

Take care

[antidote]

Hi all, i have long been wondering about how SSRIs potentially damage the serotonin receptors by as described by Drs Peter Breggin and Ann Blake Tracy (i.e. with the reuptake of serotonin inhibited by the drugs thus keeping the brain awash in serotonin, the brain reacts by eliminating or at least desensitizing the receptors otherwise it would not be able to deal with the serotonin "overload" - at least that is the theory espoused). That would be some rationale for the 6 - 18 months talked about as recovery from the withdrawal as the receptors need to be regenerated or healed and that may be the timeframe that it takes for the healing to happen. In the meantime, those of us in withdrawal suffer from not getting enough serotonin - not because the body is not producing enough - but because we don't have enough receptors capable of using it. If that is indeed the case then taking supplements that increase serotonin (e.g. 5HTP and the like) would not only not be effective (more serotonin will not help if there are not enough receptors to use it) but could potentially continue the effect of the SSRIs and cause the brain to eliminate or desensitize even more receptors for the same reason it did so in the first place with the SSRIs.

So, i've been trying to find any leads on things that can accelerate serotonin receptor healing/regeneration. I found this fairly recent article below on some early experimentation on the effects of Curcumin which comes form the common spice tumeric (from Wikipedia: Curcumin is the principal curcuminoid of the Indian curry spice turmeric, the other two curcuminoids being demethoxycurcumin and Bis-demethoxycurcumin). It is available from most health food stores and does not seem to have any serious side effects and seems to have a number of positive uses.

I am not a doctor and not a scientist. Everything i have written here is the pure speculation of a layman. But, i was wondering if anybody has seen or heard anything about this research.


Brain Res. 2007 Jun 21; : 17617388
Curcumin reverses impaired hippocampal neurogenesis and increases serotonin receptor 1A mRNA and brain-derived neurotrophic factor expression in chronically stressed rats.

[My paper] Ying Xu , Baoshan Ku , Li Cui , Xuejun Li , Philip A Barish , Thomas C Foster , William O Ogle

Curcuma longa is a major constituent of Xiaoyao-san, the traditional Chinese medicine, which has been used to effectively manage stress and depression-related disorders in China. As the active component of curcuma longa, curcumin possesses many therapeutic properties; we have previously described its antidepressant activity in our earlier studies using the chronic unpredictable stress model of depression in rats. Recent studies show that stress-induced damage to hippocampal neurons may contribute to the phathophysiology of depression. The aim of this study was to investigate the effects of curcumin on hippocampal neurogenesis in chronically stressed rats. We used an unpredictable chronic stress paradigm (20 days) to determine whether chronic curcumin treatment with the effective doses for behavioral responses (5, 10 and 20 mg/kg, p.o.), could alleviate or reverse the effects of stress on adult hippocampal neurogenesis. Our results suggested that curcumin administration (10 and 20 mg/kg, p.o.) increased hippocampal neurogenesis in chronically stressed rats, similar to classic antidepressant imipramine treatment (10 mg/kg, i.p.). Our results further demonstrated that these new cells mature and become neurons, as determined by triple labeling for BrdU and neuronal- or glial-specific markers. In addition, curcumin significantly prevented the stress-induced decrease in 5-HT(1A) mRNA and BDNF protein levels in the hippocampal subfields, two molecules involved in hippocampal neurogenesis. These results raise the possibility that increased cell proliferation and neuronal populations may be a mechanism by which curcumin treatment overcomes the stress-induced behavioral abnormalities and hippocampal neuronal damage. Moreover, curcumin treatment, via up-regulation of 5-HT(1A) receptors and BDNF, may reverse or protect hippocampal neurons from further damage in response to chronic stress, which may underlie the therapeutic actions of curcumin.

[SchnauzerTime]

Originally Posted by Aussiegirl

Schnauzertime

Oohh please don't say that! I have already been off for 4 weeks (is that too late to go back onto the lowest dose?) - Aunty??

I can't get the liquid lexapro here, so I'm pretty much stuffed aren't I?!

I have resigned from my job and will have to find something else in the next few weeks and feeling like this.... I'm freaking OUT and now I hear its gonna get worse!!! Please don't say that... Has anybody NOT got the bad withdrawals after 3-4 months??

Help, I'm having a meltdown...

It's up to you what you want to do...but if you wait longer than the 6 weeks mark from being off it you can't go back on it...it will only make you worse.

Don't worry about the liquid from the dr. I can't get it either...you can make your own liquid lexapro yourself. You crush the pill (say it's a 10mg pill) in a mortar and pestle then mix it with 10ML of cranberry juice. Get a free 5ML syringe and 1ML syringe from your pharmacist. Don't break the pill with a splitter...just put the whole pill in the mortar and crush it and mix with the same ammount of juice in ML. If it's not a 10mg pill...if it's a 20mg pill then mix with 20ML. So to get back on 2.5mg where you were at 4 weeks ago...just mix the pill and juice then discard everything but the 2.5ML liquid and drink the 2.5ML liquid. You can't save the leftover so just throw it away. Stay on each taper until you are stable with no withdrawals (normally takes 2-3 weeks to stabilize). The withdrawals from the taper won't hit until your 7th day of tapering. Then after you stabilize go down 10 percent from your current dose of 2.5mL. So 10% of 2.5 is .25. So your next taper would be 2.25mL.

Like I said do what you want, but you only have 2 more weeks to decide...after that you CAN'T get back on the medicine, it will just be worse withdrawals and sickness. Everyone I know on here and other boards with other medicine that have tapered too fast like you have get bad withdrawals again in month 3-5 or so...and yes, alot are sick for a year or so. So please consider getting back on it and tapering slowly.

[SchnauzerTime]

I went to my OBGYN today and had my blood tested. There is nothing wrong...my iron and things are fine they said so that is good news. The doctor said it is normal for not being on birth control for so long and starting back to have the nausea even though it worked fine for me before. So she said it could take a couple weeks for me to get used to it...a nurse even told me it could take up to 3 months.

I want to get off the birth control pills eventually but I don't think now's the right time with me going through withdrawal. TRUE...it'll make my withdrawal worse for a couple weeks or a month or so...but I HOPE my body will get used to it again like my doctor said and I'll just have to tough out the next month or so with worse than normal withdrawals. Anyway, thought I'd tell you everything is o.k. ...oh, and she did an inspection down there (LOL) so I'm guessing no endometriosis either or anything like that. She said it was normal to have a heavy period like I did cause I wasn't on birth control pills.

Aunty

My sea bands arrived today...I got the normal size and they are really tight (I'm overweight). Feels like it's cutting off some circulation...are they suppossed to be this tight or do I need the XL size? I feel they are helping a little but the dizziness is still there...I guess they only help with nausea. How long is it "safe" to stay on Dramamine for? Will it quit working after awhile of using it? Like will my body get immune to it? I hope not...it's the only thing working for me. My OBGYN said she could give me a prescription for nausea if I wanted...should I take her up on that or just keep using Dramamine?

[elizabethmaria]

Hi Schnauzertime,
oh good!!!!! Well, that's really good that everything is great -- I guess I was just hope hope hoping that it could have been a simple fix for you, and that this awful rough time would have more answers that were more quickly fixable!! it's a bummer things aren't so easy at times, isn't it? ugh!!! Well, I hope that as you move past your 4th month and on into your fifth and sixth month, things even out more -- so that is a good sign, that you're feeling what you should be feeling at this time, ! I'm glad you got checked out though - it makes one feel better just knowing things are ok - at least it does for me.. hopefully as your body evens out, things will improve -- you are in my prayers bigtime - I know how rough it is where you are, but you'll be feeling some changes soon!!!!!!

I'm feeling a little little bit better - it hasn't been quite a week yet on the iron, so I can't tell -- but I don't feel quite as wiped perhaps... but it's going to take a while ... my tummy is NOT happy though, it's like, WHY are you feeding me ROCKS?!

take care everyone - listen to Aunty, and Schnauzertime, they know what their talking about!
love,
EM

[skyer]

EM,

OK, I totally asked for that! I was really tired and I have anxiety about taking anything, still. I just keep reading that B's are too stimulating. But
B12 is OK during withdrawal if I'm deficient, eh? And, yes, I'm getting tested before I do anything. Going to my N.D. in about an hour. I def have low energy and am tired a lot, but I think it's the combo of my immune system at work b/c I'm in withdrawal and my disturbed sleep...loss of REM or whatever. Maybe low iron, too?? My energy has certainly improved from a few months ago, but I still struggle.

[Goraleman]

I have been on lexapro for 3 years and have not been taking it for 8 months nowI feel as if I am in another dimension people and family seem unreal I have rebound panic attacks still I see my self and surroundings but it seems I am elsewhere like a dream it really frightens me at times and I wonder when this will go away it is very uncomfortable I hope this will pass I was taking it for a long time so withdrawl will take a year or so Yes withdrawls do not go away in weeks but months time the drug is in your bones,muscles, entire body it has to be cleansed out,Just awful.

[Goraleman]

For that long you will need to wean off very slowly in 1/4 increments for a year then half of that for another 6 months and so on a very slow gradual process it may take you 2-3 years to be 100% drug free I have been on Lexapro for close to 4 years I stopped completely in January 2007 and I am still having withdrawl symptoms 8 months later August 2007,feelings of unreality, rebound panic attacks,chest pain,nausea and more, It will take maybe another 5 to 8 months to be myself again I had a ekg done bloodwork all is fine except for my diabetes which has nothing to do with this except I blame Lexapro for pushing me into Diabetes because these drugs raise your blood sugar levels,weight gain and more,if you decide to withdrawl you will feel real lousy for a long time I mean 1 year or more that is not easy for anyone me included I still feel terrible to this day I HOPE my symptoms will go away soon but I do not know when it will be??

[Goraleman]

I too feel strange and unreal 8 months after not taking Lexapro I feel as if I am lossing my memory or something unreality my mind is elsewhere from my physical self it is VERY weird and scary almost as if I am brain dead a Zombie really awful feelings.