[coming home]

Hello, this is just basically another post on attempting to stop taking prescription painkillers. However, I would like to share my story, and maybe get some feedback and encouragement from other people going thru the same thing. I am a male in my 30's with a career and a family. I began having trouble with a chronic bulging disk in my neck area about five years ago. It apparently is not serious enough to need surgery, but it can still give me a great deal of discomfort at times. I also recently found out that I may have a torn rotator cuff, again minor, but irratating. I began taking lortab 5mg very rarely and far between about three years ago, from my family doctor. About one year ago I also began taking ambien 10mg on a regular basis as well. I also have been taking clonidine for about seven years for high blood pressure. Well in the past year I started asking my doctor for more lortabs, partly because of the pain, and I must admit partly because I really liked the way that they made me feel. My doctor at first gave me no problems, calling in the tabs and faxing them sometimes without even seeing me, and also giving me three refills on twenty count bottles. I had soon progressed to sixty 10mg tabs a month. Then one day I saw a different doctor in the office as my regular doctor was on vacation, to get my ambien and lortabs refilled. This doctor noticed that I had tattoos visible on my forearms, and remarked to me that this was a sign of a chemical imbalance, and that I needed to take mood enhancers, because the pain medicine and ambien were covering up the real problem ??? I really did not appreciate being judged, diagnosed, and discreminated against just because of artwork on my arm.Anyways this doctor wrote a letter to my doctor suggesting that I come off the other meds and start taking mood enhancers. Thank goodness my doctor did not listen, but this letter found it's way into my medical file, which I didn't care for.
A real setback came for me went my doctor sent me to see a surgeon, who wrote me a script for fourty lortab 7.5's , and I also had a script for sixty lortab tens from my regular doctor. I then screwed up and attempted to fill both of them in a close time (within the same month) and the insurance company threw up a red flag, and the pharmacist called the surgeon to confirm the script, and informed him that I had recently filled the other script from my other doctor. The surgeon denied the prescription and wrote a letter to my regular doctor suggesting that I be taken off any narcotics. This was a stupid move on my part I know, but I thought I could build up a little bit of a supply and not have to constantly get refills, still stupid I know. Well luckily my doctor lost the letter,and mentioned it once and then forgot about it, and went back to prescribing me sixty lortab tens a month. I must also mention that I was not just getting medicine, I was also going to physical therapy, getting up to date mri's, and everything my doctor suggested that I do.
Then a very strange thing happened. I began to notice that my medical file, that used to be a huge book sized file of my past seven years of records. had turned into a red colored file with just three pieces of paper in it. When I asked about the file, a nurse told me that this was a temporary file, because they had temporarily misplaced my regular file ??!! Also about this time my doctor all of the sudden tells me that taking narcotics is not my best interest and he was no longer going to prescribe them to me. I asked him about withdrawl, and he said that I should not go into withdrawl if I wasn't supplementing what he was prescribing me with drugs off the street, or from other doctor's. I assured him that I was not getting them from the street, I would'nt know how to go about it or probably afford it.I disagreed with him, saying that I thought taking sixty ten mg tabs a month for over a year could certainly make you dependant, and I did feel at this point signs of withdrawl when I went without them, and I asked him if I could die from stopping cold turkey,and he said no.He then told me I needed to get into a drug treatment program.Or go to a pain clinic, where they prescripe these kinds of medicine on a regular basis. Fine so I made an appointment with a pain clinic, who wanted a copy of my medical records. I obtained my records from my doctor's office, and sure enough it was the only three pages from the "temporary file" and they still couldn't find the past seven years of records. And the three papers in the temp file only mentioned the statement's about the tattoos, and misquoted lines from our last discussion such as the doctor said that I stated that I'd rather die than go to rehab (never said that, only asked him if I could die from cold turkey) and stated that I denied buying drugs off the street, and that I couldn't possibly have become addicted from the amount that he was prescribing me. Well needless to say the pain clinic did not want to touch me with a ten foot pole !
Anyway I found a new doctor that is compassionate, and caring and told him of the trouble with the first doctor, and about the lost medical records. And he began again giving me lortabs to help with my pain, but also wanted me to go to a pain clinic if this was going to be a chronic problem. This shouldn't be a problem as there are other clinics around,and if they want my records, I will give them the records from this new doctor. However, to get back to the original point of this story I'm not sure if I want to go to the pain clinic and continue taking narcotics anyway. It has begun to turn into an everyday problem where I am running out too soon, and then taking too much clonidine and ambien to compsenate when I don't have the narcotics, and then I run out of them early too. And I am steadily needing more and stronger narcotics to even get any relief. And I will start having withdrawl symptoms after only going eight hours without the medicine, which is ridiculous in my opinion. My doctor recently switched me to percocets instead of tabs. And this is just starting to run my life and make it miserable, so I am going to try to stop taking them this week. I know the symptoms that I'll be in for as I'v expereinced them before, shaking hands, cold sweats, the runs, sleeplesness, and the worst symptom for me is that my feet and calves tingle and hurt a great deal. I talked to a local doctor about getting on a suboxone program. He was very nice and helpful, but he asked me if I was snorting, smoking, or injecting the pills, and I said no, which is true.He then asked my usual dose and the most I've taken at a time, to which I responded a usual dose of fourty to sixty milligrams of lortab or percocet per day, and the most being probably eighty milligrams in one day.To which he stated that he didn't think that I needed treatment as my usual dose was a legitimate dose for someone with a chronic pain ailment, and also stated that he understood if I wanted to stop taking the medication but told me that I would still have the pain from the injuries,and might be tempted to turn to alcohol or street drugs for relief. He said that he would be glad to treat me though if I wanted.To which I declined at this time.
Anyway I am so sorry about writing such a long topic, just wanted to get this off my chest. Any feedback would be appreciated especially about the situation with the first doctor, as in the sudden attitude change, diagnosing me based on tattoos, and losing my medical records (could this be grounds for some sort of legal action? ). And whether I would be better off just trying to get a better grip on my narcotics use, or just leave it alone altogether ?
Again thank you very much for listening.

[PoppyQueen]

That was an incredible story. Some doctors fear getting popped for over-prescribing narcotics. My doctor was forced into retirement for that very thing.

First of all, having the same narcotics from two different doctors is a no no! The secret is to filling them is to have one go through your prescription plan, and the other one get filled at another pharmacy and you pay for it, telling them you are not insured.

I'm afraid your situation of trying to get narcotics will get to be a pain-in-the-A and it will be all consuming. This happened to me. What started as a script for pain turned into a five year addiction.

If you find a doctor to give you pain pills, take them if you want, but you know you'll always want more. It gets harder and harder to get a grip on. Interestingly, though, you also are taking drugs that help people withdraw from opiates--Clonodine and Ambien!

I wish you luck in your decision. Frankly, I can't answer to the missing file dilemma.

Poppy

[coming home]

PoppyQueen

Thank You so much for replying.
Yeah, I certainly am glad that I have the Clonindine, and Ambien to help some. The only problem with them is that I have developed a tolerance for both (esp clonidine - 7+years) and neither have a huge effect on me anymore, and I dont want to run out too early, as I don't want to run into the same trouble I had before with the pain meds.

The trick of getting one script with insurance, and a paying for a second one at another pharmacy wouldn't work very well with the ambien either, if I ran out early, because that stuff is absolutely ridiculous to buy without the help of insurance, I cant remember the exact price per pill, but it's well over five dollars from the pharmacy around here. As a matter a fact my cheap a-- insurance company makes me get a special note from the doctor just to get them to pay for more than 14 pills a month, and my cost on the balance after insurance is still 35.00 a bottle, regardless of whether it's tem pills or thirty - they are worth it though - ha ha !

Anyway thanks again for the input, it was very helpful !

[PoppyQueen]

Yup, last time I got Ambien I had a $35 copay! Too bad this stuff isn't in generic form yet.

I'm on Suboxone and when I taper to very little (next month) I may need my Ambiens. I have a little stock pile going on. So far I haven't needed them since I started on Suboxone.

You asked you doctor about going on Suboxone. I don't think your habit is big enough to warrant this treatment. And you'll still be left with pain.

It'd be ideal to take your narcotics as prescribed and supplement with Advil or Aleve. I took mine as prescribed for the first year or two and then my doctor started giving me more, even duplicate prescriptions that I could fill at different drugstores at different times.

Poppy

[coming home]

" You asked you doctor about going on Suboxone. I don't think your habit is big enough to warrant this treatment. And you'll still be left with pain. "


Yep, those where his words almost verbatim, however I still can't help but feel a sort of shame, and stigmatism associated with narcotics use. For now I think that I've decided to stick with my upcoming appointment with the new pain clinic, and follow up with a neurosurgeon I've just started consulting with, even though my intentions may not be totally pure of heart but, I do still have a pain issue. After I find out for sure whether or not surgery would help me, then I will re-evaluate things.

PoppyQueen, first of all I'd like to say that your nic is very clever and intriques me, I assume that you are referring to the fact that most all of our pain meds are a synthetic form of the opium extracted from the poppy plant, in one way or another ? Am I right or do I just think that I'm a lot smarter than I really am (usually the case lol)

Second of all I have really enjoyed your replies, they are intelligent and insightful. If there is any topic I can help you with please let me know. I don't possess any great deal of special knowledge, however I do oddly enough have a drug identification bible that I aquired on a fluke chance a few years back, that has some very informative things in it such as an extensive pill identification guide, and a lot of useful medical information on all kinds of drugs, medical and otherwise, on topics such as indicated uses, abuse potential, withdrawel symptoms, and what schedule the drug is listed as (such as did you know that our beloved ambien is a schedule IV ? Pretty mild with the hardest drugs classified as schedule I, and oddly enough muscle relaxers aren't a shceduled drug at all so far as I can tell ? If I can ever look up some info for you or any other friends on this board for that matter, I would be glad to help.

[semrhein]

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

BEST TO YOU MY FRIEND AND PLEASE KEEP YOUR HEALTH TOGETHER AND YOUR HOPES HIGH.

SHARI

[coming home]

Wow I am so glad I found this message board, it has been such a help and comfort to me just talking to the two people I have already met, PoppyQueen, and Semrhein. Sometimes it's so hard or almost impossible to talk to your family friends or co-workers about these things.

Semrhein, I was just sitting around thinking about how I could contribute to this board in some small way, when I remembered that identification book I had just laying around, and I looked at the I.D. board, and I couldn't believe that there was a post right at the top that I might possibly could help with, however I am sorry that my answer caused you so much worry, I really hope that the pills turn out to be nothing and you find you have nothing to worry about, however I would feel bad for causing you panic if I turned out to be wrong. I also hate to hear that you are going through a similar problem as me with the pain meds, but it does feel good to know that I'm not alone in my struggle, and that good people like you and PoppyQueen are here for support.

As for the time being I think that I am going take PoppyQueens advice and continue on with my pain meds for the time being, and just try to keep it at the recommended doses, as I am in legitimate pain, and I am scheduled to have a test that is known as "discogram"?
(ever heard of it?) in december. It is supposed to narrow down exactly where the impingement is on my spine, and indicate whether or not that is what is causing my pain. And if it does it will supposedly tell them where to fuse my spine together to stop the impingement, and theoretically fix me ? So I figure if I might be looking at surgery soon there is probably no reason to bother kicking the pain meds as I will surely have to go back on for the surgery. I hope this is a valid reason, and not me simply justifying it to myself.

Again thank you both very much and if you feel you need to talk to me off the board, feel free to e-mail me at - dahighplainzdrifter@yahoo.com (goofy I know, but it's almost impossible to find an i.d. on yahoo thats not already taken lol)

P.S. Semrhein, please keep me up to date on your son's situation if you feel comfortable doing so, thanks.

[semrhein]

COMING HOME...no worries. I talked to my son this am and found out many things I was not aware of. And yes the pills are what we both thought them to be. I took my son to get tested today per his request.He told me that they were not his pills nor was the scale his. He did tell me the bong was his. He is going to be tested once a week for 6 months now per his request. I can only worry about him and pray he gets on track. He thinks someone found the backpack and turned the stuff in. He pretty much freaked out till we talked and went to the clinic. I can not find all the things he does nor can I control what he does I can only talk to him and tell him the dangers of 'E' and trust me the doctor and myself sat with him and explained it all or at least the best we could to make him understand the dangers. This is far from over I just need to keep the lines of communication open or he will shut me out for good.

Be safe and happy always...again thank you so much for your help and concern.
Shari

[girlie girl]

Coming Home...Your story was amazing. I can't belive the Dr. treated you like an addict after he was the one that prescribed you all of these meds. My husband also has a small tatto on his arm and the dentist I WORK FOR judged him by his apperance to. It's ridiculous that people act like that. If your hurting then you should stay on your meds. Just try and take them only as needed. Let us know how your doing.

Girlie Girl

[PoppyQueen]

Cominghome, the fact that you may be having surgery tells me you are NOT a candidate for Suboxone. You will need to take pain pills post surgery and if you are on Suboxone, you can't take any (or so they say).

You're correct in assuming my nic name Poppy has everything to do with opiates, derived from poppy plants. Opiates are my drug of choice. And in my long history of opiate abuse, about 35 years in total now, I have been made to feel like a dirt bag many times, even though I had respectable employment and no tattoos.

Thanks for the help of your reference book. I am trying to find out about Immodium and how large doses of it can help ease withdrawal symptoms (besides taking away the diarrhea) and that whatever is in Immodium is similar to opiates. Perhaps you could find something?

Well, be pain free, and have a great night!

Poppy

[niece0275]

I am new here and have been battling an addiction to percocet for 3 years. God has it been that long? Yep,It is so hard to believe. I have been in denial for so long. Today is day one of trying to ween myself off. I dont know how well its going to go considering previous attempts to ween this way have failed. I am so dissapointed in myself for what I have become. I have wonderful children who deserve all of their mother. You know as I sit here and think about this addiction I actually said to myself so many times that I needed these pills to make me a better mother. What a crock! All the lies you tell yourself to make it ok. I cant lie anymore. I dont feel anymore. I hate this addiction. I used to love the way I would feel but thats the problem, these little pills have made me unable to feel anything and I am tired of it all. Its a full time job. Always worrying about running out. I am scared yet for the first time I am ready to end this addiction. I just dont know how to do it the right way without having the horrible withrawal. You know its not the withrawal that really concerns me. I am ready to do whatever it takes to get clean but I have children who cant have their mom so sick. I just dont have the time to be sick. I may not be making much sense to anyone so I apologize but I am scared angry and just fed up. It feel extremely good to finally get this all out because for me it means I am finally admitting I am addicted. Thanks to all who are reading. Its been very helpful to listen to all of your stories. It makes you feel like your not alone in this. [:

[coming home]

Poppy Queen -
In reference to your imodium question -

I found this on another meggage board, and I do NOT ENDORSE IT, or VOUCH for it in any way - nor do I know the original poster.
(by the way you have to be carful searching for stuff like this because you will find out things you can do with your medicine that you shouldn't[}])

My book is very useful but it's more of a pill identifier, kind of out of date with the net nowaday's except for some oddities in it, and cool gross pictures, and pictures of more dope of all kinds than you can imagine, piled up on tons and tons (seized) . Anyways heres the post -

I AM NOT A DOCTOR AND HAVE NO SCHOOLING IN MEDICINE BUT THIS COULD REALLY HELP.....

It is often suggested that Immodium AD is good for WD's b/c you get the runs. The truth of the matter is that immodium is a strong opiate...just doesn't cross the blood brain barrier. Does way more than cure diurrea.

I would suggest that b/f Bupe, try and detox using immodium alone along with antidepressants and Benzos(if you have a doc). You really should only need the benzos for a few days b/c the anxiety doesn't last that long.

I don't know if its bad for the body to take this stuff in high doses but it will completely eliminate physical w/d's. The only symptom that is hard to kick is the restless legs but enough immodium will stop that too. You will be able to go on with your life during the detox (so long as you have benzo's for the first day) and it will be virtually free b/c immodium is very cheap and no rx.

Just a suggestion. Why use Bupe which crosses the blood brain barrier (gets you high--even if slightly)when immodium(non-addictive) is out there? Immodium will allow you to rid yourself of the physical WD so you can immediately begin dealing with the psychological WD. It will prolong the whole WD process but you ween off of it like any many other methods of detox.

I'd say start with 6mg of immodium for a 100mg per day hydro habit but I do not know if this is safe.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(maybe true, sounds a little stretched imo)

By the way this was on a board very similair to this one called
http://www.heroin-detox.com/ also says opiate detox at top, you all may have already heard of it? anyway hope this helps, thanks again for all the help you've giving me!

[coming home]

niece0275


I can sypathy with you somewhat. most of my meds have been hydrocodone for about three or so years. However I have been prescriped percocet tens, thirty of them, for two non-consequetive go arounds, so I don't have as much experience with them, all I can tell is that they are a bit stronger than lortabs (that tells you a lot that you didn't already know doesn't it!) I think at this time I am going to TRY to take my pain meds on schedule to surgery so I'm not quitting at this time. You might try doing a search for a thread of messages from someone that goes by pill-layer on this board (just click search in the upper right hand part of any of these pages, and search by name) I have been reading that he is having success leaving a ten percocet a day habit for suboxone. I don't know if you have access to that (suboxone) though? When I have had to go cold turkey for a couple of days, I usually just take up my ambien (if you know what that is?), and try to sleep through it. I also take clonidine for my high blood pressur, and it helps. I don't know how easy it is to get clonidine if you don't have h.p.b. though? anyway I hope this helps, and no you are definitaly not alone, as a matter of fact I'm starting to believe that we may be the silent majority - ha ha

[PoppyQueen]

Coming Home, thanks for the info. I hang out at that board frequently in the Suboxone/Buprenephrine section. I have seen suggestions for Immodium there and you should not use it for more than a few days.

So if you're detoxing, what the heck, give it a try. I'm just putting things together in my head for when I go off of Suboxone (now Subutex). I want as painless a jump off as possible

Poppy

[coming home]

I'm sorry PoppyQueen, I just realized that the information that I reposted from the other board contained a bunch of information irrelative to your question on imodium, and some negative information on suboxone,(which you are having great success with - congratulations!) [:I]

I just saw the part that explained how immodium was similiar in makeup to opiates, but didn't cross the brain barrier and thought that was the info that you were looking for - sorry about the other **** that got copied with it.

Suboxone sounds interesting to me, I have talked to a doctor around here about it recently, who has some openings left in his program. If I find out that I'm not going to have surgery after my test on the 19th of this month, I am thinking seriously about calling him to see about taking sub for my chronic neck/shoulder pain as it seems from what I read, that I would be less likely to abuse my dose because it doesn't give such a feeling of euphoria? And I would also assume from this that it would be okay to use it during work situations, where other narcotics would not be okay? Am I right about this? Thanks