[melinda7.5]

absolutely beautiful...
How are you feeling ???
Melinda

[LondonToLA]

Originally Posted by melinda7.5

absolutely beautiful...
How are you feeling ???
Melinda

I'm feeling much better. Day 4 has definately been a turn-around for me.

After my initial detox in February, I really had gotten to that point where I thought it was a good idea & I could handle one. All my best ideas lead me to relapse.

I still am restless and irritable, but I don't feel like my skin wants to turn inside out. Hopefully tomorrow is a better day too.

[melinda7.5]

Day four was my lucky day also...
I have had two people ask me today if they thought it would be OK if they took just a couple of pills...so don't feel bad we all have tried it...thinking we could get away with it...
Keep us posted...
Melinda

[LondonToLA]

Originally Posted by melinda7.5

Day four was my lucky day also...
I have had two people ask me today if they thought it would be OK if they took just a couple of pills...so don't feel bad we all have tried it...thinking we could get away with it...
Keep us posted...
Melinda

Yeah, that's a game I constantly play in my head..."one more won't hurt, right?" Umm...wrong!

Today is Day 5 and I feel alright. Just a little tired. Going back on the Wellbutrin this morning to see if it was the WD that was making me anxious or if it really was the Wellbutrin. The Doc has put me on Aplenzin which I suppose is just a newer form of Wellbutrin. He's kicked up the once daily dose to 348mg (yes, very precise).

I have to call him today to tell him that I would like off the Ambiens. Perhaps Lunesta is a wiser choice - at least I don't like the taste they leave in my mouth; hence I really haven't abused those hypnotics.

Also, I have to ask the Doc about the subutex. He apparantly wrote the script for 30 4mg pills ; take 1/2 twice a day. The pharmacist said Suboxone doesn't even come in 4mg pills. Whatever. I thought that was bizarre. Maybe he meant to write a 2mg script #60?.

Anyway, I'll probably fill the scripts just to hold on to just in case.

It's not a wise idea to come out of day 5 and then, say 5 days later have a HUGE craving and then pop 1/2 a subutex to alleviate that craving is it? Is that what people can use Sub for?

[melinda7.5]

Originally Posted by LondonToLA

Yeah, that's a game I constantly play in my head..."one more won't hurt, right?" Umm...wrong!

Today is Day 5 and I feel alright. Just a little tired. Going back on the Wellbutrin this morning to see if it was the WD that was making me anxious or if it really was the Wellbutrin. The Doc has put me on Aplenzin which I suppose is just a newer form of Wellbutrin. He's kicked up the once daily dose to 348mg (yes, very precise).

I have to call him today to tell him that I would like off the Ambiens. Perhaps Lunesta is a wiser choice - at least I don't like the taste they leave in my mouth; hence I really haven't abused those hypnotics.

Also, I have to ask the Doc about the subutex. He apparantly wrote the script for 30 4mg pills ; take 1/2 twice a day. The pharmacist said Suboxone doesn't even come in 4mg pills. Whatever. I thought that was bizarre. Maybe he meant to write a 2mg script #60?.

Anyway, I'll probably fill the scripts just to hold on to just in case.

It's not a wise idea to come out of day 5 and then, say 5 days later have a HUGE craving and then pop 1/2 a subutex to alleviate that craving is it? Is that what people can use Sub for?

Hi London
You reminded me of something funny...my sister was not sleeping well so I gave her one of my lunesta's. (only someone that has taken them before would know what I'm saying... LOL...) But she called me in the morning and said what in the heII happened in my mouth ...sorry I have been sitting here laughing for about five minutes...It was really funny...


OK, I had to wipe the tears away from laughing,,, anyway the lunesta stopped working for me after about two years...they started waking me up instead of putting me to sleep...so that is when I switched to ambien...
but I do think it would be a good idea to switch...

You know I will leave the sub questions for Robert,I know he is hoping on a plane in the next couple of hours,
But if he doesn't see it, I ask him to look at it in the morning...

hope you have a great day
Thanks for the laugh about my sister...you made my day...LOL

Melinda

[LondonToLA]

Originally Posted by melinda7.5

Hi London
You reminded me of something funny...my sister was not sleeping well so I gave her one of my lunesta's. (only someone that has taken them before would know what I'm saying... LOL...) But she called me in the morning and said what in the heII happened in my mouth ...sorry I have been sitting here laughing for about five minutes...It was really funny...


OK, I had to wipe the tears away from laughing,,, anyway the lunesta stopped working for me after about two years...they started waking me up instead of putting me to sleep...so that is when I switched to ambien...
but I do think it would be a good idea to switch...

You know I will leave the sub questions for Robert,I know he is hoping on a plane in the next couple of hours,
But if he doesn't see it, I ask him to look at it in the morning...

hope you have a great day
Thanks for the laugh about my sister...you made my day...LOL

Melinda

Glad I made your day. I am also hopping on a plane tomorrow & will be in New York for the week. Alas, I am bringing my laptop, so I'll do as much as I can to check in & give you updates. I think being away from the physical location where I am/was able to obtain all my pills will be a good thing while I drip-dry out.

I have also taken your advice and asked for Lunesta 3mg instead of Ambien. I'll let you know how that goes.

[Liz1004]

Hi London!
Just wanted to jot you a note and let you know that I'm pulling for you. Don't get discouraged by relapses. Recently I've had the same problem and its even worse when I relapse cause I get so down on myself for failing again. Its important for us both to remember that relapse is a part of recovery. Just keep on trying and let us know how you're doing! And remember, those of us that have been or still are addicted understand your struggle. I, for one, would never judge anyone because I have been through the same thing. Take care sweetie!

[Robert_325]

Originally Posted by LondonToLA

Yeah, that's a game I constantly play in my head..."one more won't hurt, right?" Umm...wrong!

Today is Day 5 and I feel alright. Just a little tired. Going back on the Wellbutrin this morning to see if it was the WD that was making me anxious or if it really was the Wellbutrin. The Doc has put me on Aplenzin which I suppose is just a newer form of Wellbutrin. He's kicked up the once daily dose to 348mg (yes, very precise).

I have to call him today to tell him that I would like off the Ambiens. Perhaps Lunesta is a wiser choice - at least I don't like the taste they leave in my mouth; hence I really haven't abused those hypnotics.

Also, I have to ask the Doc about the subutex. He apparantly wrote the script for 30 4mg pills ; take 1/2 twice a day. The pharmacist said Suboxone doesn't even come in 4mg pills. Whatever. I thought that was bizarre. Maybe he meant to write a 2mg script #60?.

Anyway, I'll probably fill the scripts just to hold on to just in case.

It's not a wise idea to come out of day 5 and then, say 5 days later have a HUGE craving and then pop 1/2 a subutex to alleviate that craving is it? Is that what people can use Sub for?

There are NO 4mg subs. They come in 8mg and in 2mg. I have to ask though why would you buy the subs now? They are just to get a person through opiate detox.

Please understand that subs are not for keeping around to "pop 1/2" if you have a craving for a pill. That's not what they are for. You start doing that and you'll end up addicted to subs. I promise you don't need to do that.

We make up our minds to get clean off opiates and subs are simply a tool for achieving that goal. Keeping some around in case you feel a craving is the wrong thing to do. You're GOING TO want a pill sooner or later. That's a part of recovery. That's where your commitment to staying clean comes in not using subs to deal with it. Stay focused on being clean, not using the subs for a crutch. God bless.

[LondonToLA]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

There are NO 4mg subs. They come in 8mg and in 2mg. I have to ask though why would you buy the subs now? They are just to get a person through opiate detox.

Please understand that subs are not for keeping around to "pop 1/2" if you have a craving for a pill. That's not what they are for. You start doing that and you'll end up addicted to subs. I promise you don't need to do that.

We make up our minds to get clean off opiates and subs are simply a tool for achieving that goal. Keeping some around in case you feel a craving is the wrong thing to do. You're GOING TO want a pill sooner or later. That's a part of recovery. That's where your commitment to staying clean comes in not using subs to deal with it. Stay focused on being clean, not using the subs for a crutch. God bless.

Thank you Robert. Even before you posted, I decided to NOT pick up the script for Suboxone. There is NO WAY I want to get addicted to Subs as a replacement for my "beloved" *smirk* Hydros.

I've also started 3mg Lunesta. I just can't handle Ambien - for me it's just a replacement drug for Hydros. I know Lunesta isn't all that better, but at least there's a deterrent there of having that awful metallic taste in my mouth. I can't imagine taking more than 1 Lunesta at a time, whereas with Ambien, I could easily take 3 or 4 at once. (I'm just being totally honest).

I just got off a long flight from the West Coast to the East Coast. I actually read chapters 1 - 4 from The Big Book. I can identify with 99% of what's written. Absolutely amazing, especially Chapter 4.

I'll try to check back in hopefully tomorrow or the next day.

"Higher Power of Your Choice" bless you Robert & Melinda.

--London.

[LondonToLA]

Originally Posted by LondonToLA

Thank you Robert. Even before you posted, I decided to NOT pick up the script for Suboxone. There is NO WAY I want to get addicted to Subs as a replacement for my "beloved" *smirk* Hydros.

I've also started 3mg Lunesta. I just can't handle Ambien - for me it's just a replacement drug for Hydros. I know Lunesta isn't all that better, but at least there's a deterrent there of having that awful metallic taste in my mouth. I can't imagine taking more than 1 Lunesta at a time, whereas with Ambien, I could easily take 3 or 4 at once. (I'm just being totally honest).

I just got off a long flight from the West Coast to the East Coast. I actually read chapters 1 - 4 from The Big Book. I can identify with 99% of what's written. Absolutely amazing, especially Chapter 4.

I'll try to check back in hopefully tomorrow or the next day.

"Higher Power of Your Choice" bless you Robert & Melinda.

--London.

Robert & Melinda,

I am checking in with you & everyone else on the boards. I have good news, bad news & not-so-great (or maybe great, I don't know) news to share with you.

To begin, let me THANK YOU for helping me get off opiates. I have been clean & free of opiates since 5/13/09 and I really don't think I could have done it without your help & advice.

To be brief, I'll admit that when I don't have opiates, I switch to more easily obtained Ambien. I am deadly serious when I say that for the past week, I have been taking two 10mg Ambien about every 4 - 6 hours (starting when I wake up, and ending when I actually go to bed at night). I literally do not remember the past week except for bits and pieces here & there. To give you a true scope of my use, I went through a bottle of 30 Ambien CR over the course of 3 days, and then a bottle of regular Ambien 10mg over the course of the next 3 days.

Today is day 2 without any Ambien, and I'll tell you it's pure hell getting off of these things. I've got to do it on my own, I've done it before, but never with this serious a problem with Ambien.

So, the not-so-good news (and potentially good news) is that I'm getting off the Ambien. I do have some Lunesta which I am considering taking - I never abuse that medication - to possibly ease the WD of Ambien, but I can't find any literature to substantiate that that actually helps - Melinda, maybe you know?

And to all of you, what prompted me to really re-evaluate my situation is that a friend of mine from my outpatient recovery group passed away suddenly - he was 43 years old; only 10 years older than I am now. He left behind an ex-wife, a father, a girlfriend, and several children. I went to his wake and it was a horrifying experience.

London.

[melinda7.5]

Hi London

It's good to hear from you...
Back when I was quitting all of my drugs...I was having panic attacks so my doctor was giving me what ever she thought might help me...
I was taking more ambien and lunesta than I should have been doing also...

If I were you I would not just stop taking the sleeping pills...It would be good if you can taper with the lunesta...they are both pretty much the same thing...

OK so now I'm have to give you the preaching part...Im sorry but I have to tell you in case you didn't notice what you did...
when you stopped the opiates you kind of switched over to ambien for your DOC...and thats OK I did a Lot of the same things when I quit my drugs...
and the sleeping pills are easer to get off of...

I would cut your dose in half for starters and then don't take them during the day and then just keep cutting back and if your going to stop them altogether wait till you have a couple days, then I used Excedrin PM and meditation tapes to help me sleep.

Keep us posted London...you know im wondering how you are doing...
Talk to you soon, Melinda

[LondonToLA]

Howdy Melinda,

I saw my doc (addiction medicine psychiatrist), and, again, spilled my guts about everything I'd been doing. He told me that going off 40 - 50mg Ambien per night cold turkey would be dangerous as in possible benzo syndrome, seizure risk and all. He agreed to do an Ambien Taper, but I must see him every week for status. He also added Trazodone 50mg to take with the Ambien. The highest dose he wanted me to start with on the Ambien taper is 20mg. Keep it at that level for 1 week, then down to 15mg for another week. (I'm going to get a more detailed schedule on my next visit next week).

I did as instructed, and the Ambien and Trazadone really made me wake up feeling groggy, but refreshed, and definately not anxious whatsoever which is unusual for me.

I'll keep you updated as often as I can.

IMHO, and from what I've learned from my Addiction Medicine Psychiatrist, Ambien definately is mentally and physically addictive according to him, along the lines of benzos.

--London

[melinda7.5]

Hi London
I'm so glad that you went to the doc...trazadone and ambien...HMMM....
let me know how that works...
you will have to keep me posted on what the doctor tells you...
I know I always say it BUT your getting there...
Talk to you soon, Melinda

[LondonToLA]

Originally Posted by melinda7.5

Hi London
I'm so glad that you went to the doc...trazadone and ambien...HMMM....
let me know how that works...
you will have to keep me posted on what the doctor tells you...
I know I always say it BUT your getting there...
Talk to you soon, Melinda

So . . . guess who can't follow a tapering schedule?! Yup. Me. Totally.

The Ambien had completely stopped working for sleep, even if I took 40mg at once (yeah, bad idea - I could have been dead, literally).

I took my last 10mg last night and from here on in it's cold turkey. BLAH!!!

[melinda7.5]

Hi London
I'm a little worried about you going cold turkey...
Robert said you should get some depakote or dilantin can you see your doc before you do this...I know how hard it is...did you ever get any lunesta...
OK, so you know I'm going to be worried about you so let us know how you are doing...

Talk to you soon, Melinda

[LondonToLA]

Originally Posted by melinda7.5

Hi London
I'm a little worried about you going cold turkey...
Robert said you should get some depakote or dilantin can you see your doc before you do this...I know how hard it is...did you ever get any lunesta...
OK, so you know I'm going to be worried about you so let us know how you are doing...

Talk to you soon, Melinda

Hi Melinda,

I have no choice other than to go cold turkey. Thus far, my symptoms since being off Ambien are: sleeplessness (hard time falling asleep & waking up about 4 - 6 times per night), a ringing in my ears, and occasional dizziness.

I am unable to get a script for Lunesta (Lunesta also doesn't work for me, even if I take two 3mg pills); yet I have 3 refills on Ambien CR - I can pick up the Ambien CR script on 6/20, however; that's sort of a moot issue. Ambien had completely stopped working for me.

I don't feel as bad as I thought I would off Ambien, but it's still unpleasant not being able to sleep.

[melinda7.5]

Hi London

Thanks for letting me know your ok...
It wasn't that bad when I stopped my ambien either but I was a little scared for you because you were on a higher dose.

I kept waiting for something bad to happen and it never did...
I took some Excedrin pm and some sleepy time tea...
and I was able to sleep a few hours.
but I never slept for more than that before...

Keep us posted...
Talk to you later, Melinda

[LondonToLA]

I have a quick question. I was taking Hydro about 40mg per day for 3 weeks, then tapered down to 20mg per day. Then I switched to Darvocet-100 for about 5 days (taking about 4 of them per day). Yesterday at about 8:00am was my last dose. I'm not really feeling too much WD other than a little anxiety and acheyness.

Did I just get lucky with WD this time or is there hell to pay in the future?

I've been clean for a little over 24 hours.

Sorry the post is so short.

[melinda7.5]

Hi London
Glad to hear from you ...I think your going to be ok...The way you tapered down is why you don't feel to bad you may have a little w/d but it wont be that bad...Those darvocets are about worthless...LOL...but I bet they are great for a taper...
Always good to talk to you...
Take care...
Melinda

[LondonToLA]

Originally Posted by melinda7.5

Hi London
Glad to hear from you ...I think your going to be ok...The way you tapered down is why you don't feel to bad you may have a little w/d but it wont be that bad...Those darvocets are about worthless...LOL...but I bet they are great for a taper...
Always good to talk to you...
Take care...
Melinda

You were right Melinda - the WD's were the least severe of all the times I've had to WD from Opiates. You are also right about me switching my DOC from opiates to Ambien.

I've tried to lay off the scripts and just try homeopathic remedies for sleep, but they don't work. Of course, it's my fault for not having good sleep hygiene in the first place. I wonder how long someone can last consecutively with under 4 hours sleep per night without going nuts!

[melinda7.5]

Hey London !!! my friend

You can go a long time on only four hours of sleep a night ...
I really did go for about two months with no sleep when i quit my benzo's
I did sleep an hour or two here and there but that was it,to tell you the truth I still don't sleep well...my doctor gave me some seroquel 50mg to try it does nothing but make you tired when I have taken it I slept pretty good...
I was watching TV and the next thing I new I was sleeping...

I don't remember if you liked Excedrin pm or melotonin...
They help a little...

Never give up just keep on trying...

Talk to you later, Melinda

[LondonToLA]

Originally Posted by melinda7.5

Hey London !!! my friend

You can go a long time on only four hours of sleep a night ...
I really did go for about two months with no sleep when i quit my benzo's
I did sleep an hour or two here and there but that was it,to tell you the truth I still don't sleep well...my doctor gave me some seroquel 50mg to try it does nothing but make you tired when I have taken it I slept pretty good...
I was watching TV and the next thing I new I was sleeping...

I don't remember if you liked Excedrin pm or melotonin...
They help a little...

Never give up just keep on trying...

Talk to you later, Melinda

Oh Melinda, ye wise one! :-)

I have been on a pretty high daily dose (emphasis on the daily which includes day and night) of Ambien. I thought I would be a tough-guy and cold turkey myself from about 60mg per day/night total. Baaaaad idea. Saturday was complete and utter hell, and this morning wasn't much better until I got my refill of 30 Ambien 10mg's. This time (have we heard this before from me?) I am going to remember what absolute hell it is/was without Ambien. I was awake from about 3am Saturday morning until about 7am Sunday morning with no sleep and all I could do was:

1. Mentally obcess over how I could pick up my script early

2. Kept having songs play over and over in my head

3. Tried to keep the teeniest noises out of my bedroom so I could sleep

4. Went from severe chills, to sweats, to arms tingling numbly along with 1/2 hourly bouts of diarrhea.

5. No appetite whatsoever - I have to force myself to eat. *Note: over the past 3 months I have gone from 200lbs to 165.

So . . . .I decided it was either call the pharmacy and ask for an early refill, or I was going to check into an E.R. (Xanax does NOT help for Ambien W/D). I got my refill, and I'll tell you straight up that I took two 10mg pills at 8:30am and woke up at 2pm today. Sleep, but not too restful.

I have an appointment with my addiction medicine psychiatrist this week, so I'm going to definately tell him I need a SLOW SLOW taper. I am not going to tell him about my major f***ups - he thinks I take 30mg a night and is worried about that & will only prescribe 20mg per night (which I totally understand). If, perchance, I get more Ambien, I plan on doing a nice long taper using as much self-control as I can: the same I've had to not seek opiates on a regular basis.

So, after opening up all my wounds and airing my dirty laundry, Melinda, what do you think? God bless you for everything you've done for me.

London.

[melinda7.5]

Hi London
you are to funny !!!!ye wise one...LOL
you know all of us when were using think about how we can get are script early...LOL
I would go to a 24 hr pharmacy at 12:01 to fill my script of oxycontin...how sick was that...LOL...
and we all have dirty laundry mine is posted all over this forum
Be truthful with me, do you think you can do a long taper.I think we need to fill what ever it is that is missing in your life that you need to fill with those ambien.I know they relax you just enough to where it feels ok...
I'm just getting a little worried about you it scares me a little, you know I take ambien sometimes and when I was having my panic attacks I would take two some nights just to get a few hours sleep...I can understand that but it's what your feeling during the day to have to take them. you know that is why most of us women take them is to just numb are selves and I'm wondering if that is what you are doing...I did that for a long time.
Tell me if you think I'm way off base here...
and let me know what your doc says...
stay in touch a little more and let me know how you are...
Talk to you soon, Melinda

[Robert_325]

London ..... you've got to lower that ambien dose girl. My goodness that is serious. You would feel so much better taking 20mg. That's reasonable. I don't see how you can possibly remember things you do taking that much ambien. I know that I couldn't do that. One pill is it IF I even take that. Take care and be careful. God bless.

[LondonToLA]

Originally Posted by Robert_325

London ..... you've got to lower that ambien dose girl. My goodness that is serious. You would feel so much better taking 20mg. That's reasonable. I don't see how you can possibly remember things you do taking that much ambien. I know that I couldn't do that. One pill is it IF I even take that. Take care and be careful. God bless.

Thank you both for your advice & help. I've got a lot of ******** going on in my life which mainly involves me being self-absorbed and having too much time on my hands. I've been off work for about 3 months now, and I don't think that's helped the situation any. I start work again on 8/4, so that will occupy my days. Hopefully (since I definately cannot be impared at work), this will help to reduce my Ambien dose. I see the doc this Thursday.

And, Melinda: at this point, I have no willpower to do a long taper (I'm being honest), but if I get back to work, and just take 20mg @ night, that will be enough progress to make me happy.

I'm definately not looking to go out like Heath Ledger. I recognize what I'm doing is destructive. It's not right and I have no excuse.

[melinda7.5]

Hi London
I think you have a great plan when you get back to work,I had surgery and have been home for two weeks and it is driving me crazy...so i think you will be fine with 20mg. sorry i had no good advice for you this time...
let me know how your doing...
Melinda