[inlovewithanaddict]

My name is Stephanie. My boyfriend, as of last night, has relapsed on oxy's for the 4th time in a year. I honestly don't know what to do and I need someone to help me understand and know how to help him. He has gotten clean three other times, all of which he comes to me and his parents tells us he is on them again and says he wants to get clean, and he stays clean anywhere from 1-3 months, then he falls back into them again. We (his parents and I) are completely helpless. He lived with them and they took his phone, house and car keys, and he stayed locked in his room for 6-8 days then he would be fine. They would slowly allow him to have freedoms such as staying the night at my place, drinking, and eventually he would get his phone and keys back. The last time was in August. His parents paid out $18,000 to keep him out of debt where he had went to small loan companies and opened up several loans. This time, he stole over $3,000 from his parents business by writing himself a check in the computer and signing his stepmothers name to the check. All of this just came out yesterday and when I got home from work last night, my digital camera, laptop, and jewelry he got me for Christmas was all gone. Can someone please help me. I love him very much but I don't love the addict he is becoming. I don't know how to help him. Someone, please.....

[MaisieC]

Stephanie, I'm really sorry you're going through this horrible experience. As the child of an addict, I totally understand your pain and frustration. You might not like hearing this, but it's your boyfriend who has to help himself at this point...you can't do it. I'm sure you've been kind and supportive and loving with him all the way along. And that hasn't changed his behavior.

It sounds as though he's at the point where the drug is more important to him than anything else, including you and his family. This is just the reality with some addictions, and you have to try to understand that it's nothing personal. The addiction is just really, really powerful.

The best thing for you to do--for everyone concerned--is to get yourself to some Nar Anon meetings. Nar Anon is a twelve-step-based program for people who are related to or living with addicts. Everybody there is in the same boat, and the meetings give you a chance to talk about what's happening and learn from others' experiences. No one there is going to tell you what to do: they're not going to insist that you leave him or anything. But you will gain some understanding of the disease of the addiction and how you interact with the addict in your life. Helping yourself at this point is the closest thing you can do to helping him.

When you Google it, please look for Nar Anon, NOT "Narconon." Narconon is part of the church of Scientology, and it is not affiliated with any 12-step program.

Good luck, and let us know how you do.

[Robert_325]

So sorry you have found yourself in the same place so many other people find themselves. Nothing is anymore sad than watching someone we love go down the tubes with drugs. There is NO logical explanation for why someone would make a choice to blow off their family and those who love them so much for some drugs that do nothing but ruin their life. It's like that old television commercial where they say, " Why do you think they call it dope?" There is no logical explanation whatsoever for this happening.

There are several people on this forum right now that are going through the exact same thing as you. Some are at similar stages in this process as you and some have progressed farther. We see some people get off the drugs and get their life back together, but unfortunately we also see some addiction problems that don't ever get better. Families end up destroyed and futures thrown out the window.

The bottom line is that you can do nothing to fix him. You've got to accept that first before you have a chance of helping him. He has to want to do this or you are totally wasting your time and energy. He has to change for himself, not for you, not for his parents, but for himself because he desperately wants to.

Until being clean is THE most important thing in his life it won't happen. It doesn't matter how important you are to him. Makes NO difference whatsoever. If being clean isn't at the top of HIS priority list (because he wants it to be and not because you're hammering him to stop) then you are spinning your wheels in desperation. That is a very bleak prognosis, I know, but it's the truth.

There are a bunch of threads on this forum that discuss the problem you're having. I would suggest that you read the thread titled, "My husband is an addict." You will find this thread in the Need To Talk category, it has over 400 replies so it's a very active thread and would undoubtedly benefit you. The girl who authors that thread goes by the screen name Lost83. She will undoubtedly reply to your post or you can search her out here. Lost has helped lots of people here in the same place you are. I think you two would have a lot in common and she can share a ton of personal experience with you.

Do some reading on the other threads and check out Lost83. Continue to post and you will receive lots of suggestions and support on this forum. I will add you to my prayer list. If you will stick around and talk with our forum members openly you will get lots of good ideas.

This will likely be the most difficult battle of your life so be prepared. It can be very disheartening especially if things don't go as we hope they will go. It upsets me to no end that your boyfriend has progressed to the point of literally stealing checks from his family and pawning your Christmas presents. That is total BS as I don't have to tell you. That's why you're here. Hang in there and God bless.

PS I agree with Masie that making some Nar Anon meetings would be a great idea. There will be some meetings locally if you are in a decent sized city. I don't know where you are in TN but if you can't find any meetings and need some help let me know. I would be more than happy to help you find your way. Keep your chin up.

[Lost83]

Stephanie,

My heart breaks for you, I am in the same almost identical situation with the exception that my addict is my husband and we have a 16 month old son. All the suggestions from Robert and MaisieC are exactly what I would have recommended.

No matter what is taken from him, if he wants to get high, he will find a way without any regard for the consequences. My husband pawned my greatgrandmothers antique wedding ring to get high, he pawned his own wedding ring. He took my son to buy roxy's and had full intentions on snorting it with my son in the back seat, thank God the cops caught him. The list just goes on of all the things he has done because he wants to get high. This drug grabs ahold of them and they become a stranger to us doing things we never thought they were capable of.

Below is a poem that pretty much sums it up, I read it almost everyday to remind myself that I can't control his addiction, you only have control over yourself. It's a good read and maybe his parents would benefit from it also.

If you love me let me fall all by myself. Don't try to spread a net out to catch me. Don't throw a pillow under my ass to cushion the pain so I don't have to feel it. Don’t stand in the place I am going to land so that you can break the fall (allowing yourself to get hurt instead of me) ... Let me fall as far down as my addiction is going to take me, let me walk the valley alone all by myself, let me reach the bottom of the pit ... trust that there is a bottom there somewhere even if you can't see it. The sooner you stop saving me from myself, stop rescuing me, trying to fix my broken-ness, trying to understand me to a fault, enabling me ... The sooner you allow me to feel the loss and consequences, the burden of my addiction on my shoulders and not yours ... the sooner I will arrive ... and on time ... just right where I need to be ... me, alone, all by myself in the rubble of the lifestyle I lead ... resist the urge to pull me out because that will only put me back at square one ... If I am allowed to stay at the bottom and live there for awhile ... I am free to get sick of it on my own, free to begin to want out, free to look for a way out, and free to plan how I will climb back up to the top. In the beginning as I start to climb out .. I just might slide back down, but don't worry I might have to hit bottom a couple more times before I make it out safe and sound ... Don't you see ?? Don't you know ?? You can't do this for me ... I have to do it for myself, but if you are always breaking the fall how am I ever suppose to feel the pain that is part of the driving force to want to get well. It is my burden to carry, not yours ... I know you love me and that you mean well and a lot of what you do is because you don't know what to do and you act from your heart not from knowledge of what is best for me ... but if you truly love me let me go my own way, make my own choices be they bad or good ... don't clip my wings before I can learn to fly ... Nudge me out of your safety net ... trust the process and pray for me ... that one day I will not only fly, but maybe even soar. ---Passion

If you read on this forum the stories of addicts who are in recovery, you will see that they WANT to be clean and have to work at it daily. Some are lucky enough to still have families by their side to support them in their efforts but there are some who have lost EVERYTHING and had to lose everything to get to the point where they didn't want to live this life anymore, chasing the drugs, lying, stealing, losing their jobs, and families.

Has he ever participated in any type of support group after he spent his 8 days detoxing? My husband goes to NA and it has helped him ALOT. He has a sponsor and is working his steps. It sounded corny initially but once he went and heard others speak of their struggles with drugs, he was relieved that there are others out there going through the same thing as him. He actually enjoys his meetings now and has a huge sponsor family and many NA buddies that he talks to on a daily basis. Maybe you can suggest it to him, remember it's his choice whether or not he goes but you can make your choice not to be with him if he isn't willing to actively work a recovery program. Good luck to you, stay strong, I am here daily if you want to chat.

[inlovewithanaddict]

First of all, thank you, thank you from the bottom of my heart. Reading your responses offered some comfort in the fact that I'm not the only one has been down this road. It's been 3 days now, still no word from him. Alot of his friends know his struggle with pills, and as they have seen him out on the roads have let me know. This at least lets me know he is alive and not dead somewhere. Which as been my biggest fear. I'm speaking to his parents daily and this is killing them. I know that I can't help him at this point, but I know that he is with his friend who runs drugs for dealers. Which means he is getting his fix currently by stealing from others and is probably getting a little cash at the same time. I want him to want to get clean. But my fear is that he will only make the choice to get clean when he has ran out of options for getting the drugs. Not because he is sick of living the way he is right now. The worst part of it is, and you all know, is that I know this isn't him. He is sweet and loving and a good man. But what these pills have turned him into scares me. It scares me to think he might break into my house to steal from me because he knows what is there. I can't sleep or eat, I'm nervous constantly and everytime my phone rings, my heart skips a beat. Our friends have been great during the past few days. Staying with me and stopping at his parents house to make sure that we are all well. One of our good friends saw him yesterday at a gas station and talked to him, his response to all of this was that he was fine and he would call soon.........

Where does that leave me? I know that the drugs are more important than everything and everyone right now. How can I deal with that? I don't want to cry everyday like this. I don't want this to kill me in the process of him getting better. I'm checking online now for a meeting place, and we went ahead and check into rehab centers in our area, the problem is the waiting list is 6-8 weeks, and the first 8 days is $2500, then the 21 day in patient is another $4750. Please keep in mind that his family and I wanted to have options for him if and when he comes back.

[Lost83]

There is nothing wrong with giving him options. I think it's great that you are looking into rehabs for him. Have you ever seen the show intervention? It's when the family and or friends give the addict the opportunity to go to rehab and let them know if they choose not to go they won't continue to enable behavior whether it be a place to stay, money, etc. They also write letters and read them outloud of all the good qualities and the things they miss about that person prior to their addiction.

I posted an article on my thread yesterday (under need to talk titled my husband is an addict) that gives 10 ways family can help an addict, maybe take a gander, it explains what we should and shouldn't do for the addict. I found it to be very informative.

Please remember that you cannot control him, you have to focus on what is good for you. It's not going to be easy and I am not saying to give up on him or forget about it, but you have to take this burden off your shoulder for your well being. Good for you looking for a meeting to go to. I find strength in educating myself about addiction. It's almost become an obsession for me. I want to know why his brain is thinking the way it is. It's one thing to say I know it's out of my control, it's a totally different thing to feel it. It's the feeling I am still struggling to get, where I 100% know he isn't doing this to ME he is doing it to HIMSELF and there is nothing I can say or do to stop him unless HE wants to stop. It no easy task but I think if you go to these meetings you will find some peace in speaking with others in your shoes and they give great advice.

There is another forum at www.soberrecovery.com and a section titled "friends and family of addicts". I don't post there but I read a lot and a lot of the people on that site are active in Naranon meetings. The support there is tremendous for people dealing with addicts. I am not trying to scare you away from this forum as this is the only one I post on, I just like to read other's stories. They always have new stickies at the top with informative articles. You may want to check it out. Good luck to you, try taking a few deep breaths and just keep telling yourself you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it.

[inlovewithanaddict]

Thank you, this really does help. And his family and I have discussed an intervention type situation. The thing is, I don't want to scare him away. He knows that I'm here for him. He knows all he has to do is pick up the phone or come by. That is where my ego is a little bruised because he hasn't, he does not want to. Thank you for your help and support. I'm going to look at the articles and like you, I've been bouncing all over the net reading stories, articles, medical journals. I really want to understand what is going on in his head right now. Again thank you and I'll post tomorrow, because it will start all over again then.

[inlovewithanaddict]

Ok I need your help..again...He pulled out in front of me last night, he motioned me to follow him, he pulled over and got into my car, told me that he wanted to get clean and that he wanted to come by my house later. I told him that was fine, seeing as I was on my way to dinner. He showed up around 9pm last night. He was very silent. I asked him if he really wanted to get clean. He said yes, he said he wanted to stop all drug use, he's been smoking pot as well. I told him that was fine. That his parents and I loved him and we were here to help him. He wouldn't let me call them and let them know he was there. He refused to stay at either of our houses last night. He said he hasn't had a pill in 4 days and he was sick. He also told me that he has been putting in job applications over the past few days. Now, the loving girlfriend in me wants to say great and give him a pat on the back. But the addicts loving girlfriend tells me that more than likely he wanted to try and get high one more time last night, which means he doesn't want to get clean. And there is no way that he has been putting in job applications knowing that he can't pass a drug test, and he is doing all of this while he is detoxing. I call bull s***!!!

But he said he was going to come to my house tonight around 6 and he wanted to sit down with his parents and me, and help him figure out what to do. Lost83, the article you led me to has already been faxed to his parents as of 10 minutes ago. But here is my question: What do we do now? If he does want to get clean, I have already told him that going to NA would be required, he never has before and I think that is one reason why he has not been successfull in recovery. Last time, his parents paid off all his loans and kept him under lock and key for 6 months. By that point he was climbing the walls just to get out of the house. Is that the right thing to do? I know that for the next 6-10 days he isn't going to be going anywhere. His room is going be searched as well as his person. I know his parents have no idea what they are doing and I don't want them to be so strict on him that when he does finally get to leave his house or be alone he'll use. Please Lost83 or Robert I need you!

[Robert_325]

I would go ahead and meet with him and see what he has to say. Remember though that locking him in his room is pointless. That does absolutely no good. You can't keep him there forever. Hear him out but don't give him a penny for any more loans, no gasoline, no rent, no nothing. He either gets into a recovery program and works it or wave good bye. It's time to stand up to this guy and make him act like a man. The longer you put it off the longer he will lie, steal, con, and just overall BS all of you. I'm serious. It's your way or the highway.

Even when our little kids fall we have to let them do it or they don't learn to walk. This is a very critical time for him. You can keep him in his addiction by babying him or you can teach him to walk by forcing him to stand on his own two feet. I promise the latter will cause lots less grief for all concerned, himself included, in the long run. Most important don't listen to anymore of his ridiculous promises. He does it your way or he leaves with nothing. This is what's called tough love. He has to reach his bottom before he will ever change by this point. God bless.

[Lost83]

Robert is right, if he wants to use, he's going to. Locking him in his room is pointless. My husband detoxed in our home, I didn't search him or his things until he gave me reason to believe he was using again (which does no good anyways, just makes you crazy). Secluding him does him no good. He needs to learn how to resist temptation. His entire lifestyle has to change from friends that use to learning how to live life sober on lifes terms. If you and his family feel he needs to be under lock and key, send his butt to rehab. No way should any of you have to subject yourselves to "babysitting" him and put your life on hold to ensure he will stay clean, you have no control over that. If he truly wants help, he will do this. If not, send him packing, let him suffer the consequences of his actions, financially, mentally, physicallly. Only then when he truly hits his bottom will he WANT to start working towards recovery. It can't be forced or controlled by us, we can open the door but he was to walk through it. Good luck, please let us know how it goes!

[inlovewithanaddict]

Ok, he has been living with me. We can't get him into rehab for 6-8 weeks, the waiting list is that long. So do I let him move back into my house? Does his parents let him move in there? Don't get me wrong. I don't want to enable him in any way. I guess that is why I'm asking the hundred questions. But where does he go till we can get him into rehab? He wants to go to rehab and he wants to participate in NA. I've already told his parents that we should random drug test him with the kits from Walgreens or CVS, they cost about $50 per test but if i test him one time and it comes back as he is using. I'm done. Is this the right way? Do I have friends sit with him during the day? His parents want to put him under lock and key. I don't think that's what is best for him or anyone else. But what other choices do we have at this point? I'm asking because I don't want anything I do to mess up him getting clean if that is what he wants.

[Lost83]

My suggestion regardless where he stays would be to require he attends an NA meeting DAILY, no if ands or buts about it. Give him about a week to warm up to it and tell him he needs to get a sponsor, buy the books and start getting active with a recovery program. That would be my requirement to let anyone with his track record come back. That is exactly what I did wiht my husband.

Unfortunately to protect your things, I would lock up all your valuables since he has already betrayed your trust and stolen from you. The 10 suggestions I sent to you says this is enabling him, but to this day all of my jewlery is in a safe, there is nothing wrong with protecting your belongings.

Second if he is going to be there for 6-8 weeks, he needs to get a job. McD's doesn't drug test. There is no way you should pull all the weight on this. He is an adult and needs to be able to afford his own food, bills, gas, etc. I wouldn't have friends "babysit" him when you aren't around, he is going to do what he wants anyways so if you are going to do this you have to let him make his own decisions. I would randomly drug test him. They are expensive but it's worth the piece of mind if you are suspicious.

This is not going to be easy, you start to feel like a Mom or warden more than a girlfriend. If you are up for the challenge go for it but don't drive yourself insane trying to make him "better", he has to make that decision. If you follow through, mean what you say, and say what you mean, that is the best support you can give him. If he does abuse his second chance with you, as long as you follow through with the consequences, you are doing what is best for you and him. Keep in touch, let us know how it goes.

[musicman48]

Originally Posted by Lost83

My suggestion regardless where he stays would be to require he attends an NA meeting DAILY, no if ands or buts about it. Give him about a week to warm up to it and tell him he needs to get a sponsor, buy the books and start getting active with a recovery program. That would be my requirement to let anyone with his track record come back. That is exactly what I did wiht my husband.

Unfortunately to protect your things, I would lock up all your valuables since he has already betrayed your trust and stolen from you. The 10 suggestions I sent to you says this is enabling him, but to this day all of my jewlery is in a safe, there is nothing wrong with protecting your belongings.

Second if he is going to be there for 6-8 weeks, he needs to get a job. McD's doesn't drug test. There is no way you should pull all the weight on this. He is an adult and needs to be able to afford his own food, bills, gas, etc. I wouldn't have friends "babysit" him when you aren't around, he is going to do what he wants anyways so if you are going to do this you have to let him make his own decisions. I would randomly drug test him. They are expensive but it's worth the piece of mind if you are suspicious.

This is not going to be easy, you start to feel like a Mom or warden more than a girlfriend. If you are up for the challenge go for it but don't drive yourself insane trying to make him "better", he has to make that decision. If you follow through, mean what you say, and say what you mean, that is the best support you can give him. If he does abuse his second chance with you, as long as you follow through with the consequences, you are doing what is best for you and him. Keep in touch, let us know how it goes.

That is good advice.Listen to lost83. She knows what she is talking about.Good luck.

[inlovewithanaddict]

Thanks Lost83, I'll post as soon as the weekend gets underway. We are all meeting at his parents house tonight at 9. I'm going to print this post out and share the relevant material that has been given to me. Thank you again for the help and you'll be hearing from me soon........please pray for us.

[Lost83]

I will pray for you! Good luck! Another bit of advice before you go, it may be helpful to write a letter of all the things you love and miss about him and also include all of the things you have done to enable him that will cease if he continues to use (maybe his parent's do the same just like on the show Intervention). These situations are emotional and the addict may jump on the defense almost immediately which can defer the intervention into a pissing match because all of you have been hurt by this man that you love. Go with a game plan. Good luck, I will check in this weekend.

[inlovewithanaddict]

I'm calling his parents right now to have them start writing a letter. It's cheezy but I was researching interventions. Because that is basically what we need to do, and also I wanted to ask you, I have come across alot of information about Subox. I've read what it does and how it works, including Roberts post about the correct way to use it. Should this be something we suggest? Can his regular physician prescribe this to him? I'm trying to get the game plan together now for how tonight will go. My emotions and nerves are running in different directions at this point. But any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Lost83]

Don't think of it as cheezy, it's a way to keep things on track should they get out of control. You don't have to read directly from the letter, just use it as flash points of things you want to make sure you don't forget to mention.

I know very little about Suboxene besides what I've read here. Musicman or Robert can give you better advice on that. They would need to know what he is using and how much. If he is able to go cold turkey that would be the first recommendation, below is Thomas Recipe which gives a list of things to get to minimize the withdrawl symptoms. My husband used most of the recipe, this by no means detoxes you symtpom free but it does help with some of the ailments he will suffer during the detox.

Robert may not be back on today but Musicman should chime in soon.

"PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas

THOMAS RECIPE

If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

For the Recipe, You'll need:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.

2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).

3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.

4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper, Magnesium and Potassium (you may not find the potassium in the same supplement).

5. Vitamin B6 caps.

6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:

Start the vitamin/mineral supplement right away (or the first day you can keep it down), preferably with food. Potassium early in the detox is important to help relieve RLS (Restless Leg Syndrome). Bananas are a good source of potassium if you can't find a supplement for it.

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

Continue to take the vitamin/mineral supplement with breakfast.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

Thomas"


Also, check out this sight if you like, it was really informative for me - it has some great information on getting clean using primarily nutrition, suppplements, and exercise. It's written by a physician specialized in treating opiate withdrawal. It also talks about what abusing opiates does to our brain, which is scaring me into kicking this **** to the curb!

http://www.dpeg.org/treatment/methadone_withdrawal.htm

[inlovewithanaddict]

Thanks lost, I'll look for musicman to chime in and give his thoughts. I'm going to the suggested website and my printer is about out of ink. I feel like a boy scout at this point.....Always be prepared!

Thank you so much!

[Lost83]

You're welcome! Good luck!

[inlovewithanaddict]

Thank you again! I'll post tomorrow more than likely unless something happens and I need ya!

[Lost83]

So how'd it go?

[inlovewithanaddict]

okay, so he stayed with his parents Friday night, the rules were clearly lined out. He has to get a job, random drug tests (if he fails he is out), NA is mandatory everyday for the next little bit, then he can go down to three times a week. There are not alot of meeting sites in our actual city, but there are alot that range about 15 minutes away. He is not allowed phone priviliages and his parents took his truck away as well. He was very receptive Friday night. He said he understood and he would do whatever he needed to, so he could get clean and stay clean. It was a VERY emotional process. Alot of tears, and I have to say I was really proud of his parents for not yelling and screaming at him.

Saturday was another story. He slept maybe 3 hours all night. He has been taking vitamins and hot baths constantly. His back aches were killing him, I made no attempts to baby him. I told him that this was something he knew he had to go through and he was okay with that. His parents went through his truck and room, they found where he had pawned several of thier tools from the office and their home. His parents went through the roof, not that I blame them. But I noticed that he seemed to shut down when the yelling started. He has said many times over the weekend that no one can put as much guilt and shame as he has put on himself.

Sunday was not great either. He was in the worst part of it I think. He didn't want to get off the couch all day. I talked him into going to the grocery store with me, we walked around for about an hour, he seemed to be feeling better. He has begged me to give him the money for pot. I refuse. I told him that if he wanted it then he didn't want to get clean and pointed to the door. He didn't ask again after that.

His first NA meeting is tonight, I think he is a little freaked out by it all. But I've told him that if he wants to stay clean NA is key, he will have people he can talk to when cravings hit, etc.

Thank you all again for the help and support, I don't know how long this will go on for. I know that he will more than likely still have withdrawls for the rest of the week. Then it hopefully will get better.

[Lost83]

So today is day 4 right? Good for you standing your ground. In my opinion it's good for his parents to make let him know that it is unacceptable for him to pawn their stuff. I understand that he feels guilty but don't we all when we get caught. Perhaps going through this again with the withdrawls, losing his privileges, and following it up with recovery i.e. NA this time it will stick. I am not trying to be nosey, well I guess I am, but how old is this man? Just curious.

Getting him up and around is key to getting through the detox and helps with the depression that comes with it. When my hubby was detoxing he curled up in bed for days, I finally told him to get up, and once he finally did get his a$$ out of bed, he started feeling much better. He started riding his bike and walking a lot. It helped him a lot so I would encourage him to get moving more and more each day.

I'm glad you all set down the ground rules, I hope he chooses to do this for real this time. Good luck, please keep us posted on his progress and yours too~

[Robert_325]

inlovewithanaddict .... I agree with Lost completely. His guilt comes from being caught. I am not judging him morally as I've been there too right where he is. I'm just stating the facts of how addicts' minds work. We all feel guilty and remorseful when we get caught. But let someone sneak him some Oxy and watch that remorse fly right out the window. That is reality. He's begging you for cash to buy some pot? Whether or not pot is good or bad is irrelevant at this point. That is the topic for another thread on the forum. The fact is that he should be focused on getting clean, not worrying about which drugs he can talk someone into getting for him. He's suffering from what I like to call "stinkin thinkin" right now. He needs to get his head screwed on straight and focus on getting clean, not worrying about what he can get away with.

I want to re-emphasize that exercise is without a doubt the BEST medication there is for a person in opiate detox. We feel like we are going to die and that there is NO WAY we can exercise. And I'm not talking about running five miles, just going for a walk. Getting our endorphine production going helps so much. People in detox almost always say that they feel soooooo bad and there's no way they can do anything. All they want to do is "take something" that will make them feel better. Well "taking something" to make them feel better is what got us here in the first place. I don't know of anyone who takes a walk around the block and doesn't say it makes them feel better. Maybe not after that very first walk, but do it a few times and it will help I promise. When you guys went walking around the store and it seemed to help is a perfect example of what I'm saying.

Going to NA meetings for a "little bit" is not even worth messing with. If he is going to get into recovery he needs to get into recovery. He should be at an NA meeting EVERY SINGLE DAY and he should follow that regimen for at least 90 days. He should do mulitiple meetings on the days that it's possible. I did NA meetings every day, missing only 3 meetings in the first two years I was in recovery. This is life and death we're talking about here. This guy is stealing and robbing from his family and loved ones, he has pushed this addiction thing to the limit. Either get him into a recovery program and encourage him to participate on a daily basis or it will be a TOTAL waste of time.

He needs to find an NA sponsor, make meetings every single day, and he needs to start working the 12 steps. His sponsor can and will help him with all this. I can not emphasize the importance of him working a recovery program enough. NA meetings place him in a controlled environment with others who understand what is happening to him. They have all been there. His family doesn't know how an addict's mind works, how he justifies lies and stealing. But the addicts in those meetings could be what saves his butt. I am a devout Christian. I'm at church any time the doors are open. My first NA sponsor who is also a Christian told me something years ago that has stuck with me. He said," I go to church to save my soul, I go to NA to save my a$$." After having accumulated some pretty serious clean time I still go to NA meetings. I celebrated another year clean in December. I don't go every day anymore, but I still go a couple times a week. Plus I'm in church doing something four days a week. I have to continue to work on self-improvement or I will fail. My future well-being is totally contingent on my spiritual condition. That is true for most all people in recovery. Go to meetings with him if you like. Just look for meetings that are "open" meaning anyone can attend. It will help you understand what the people at the meetings are telling him.

If you guys decide that suboxone is the way for him to go I will be more than happy to help. But understand that suboxone is NOT a miracle drug. He has to want to do this, and want to above everything else or he'll fail and relapse. Suboxone will help get him past the opiate detox but that is where the NA meetings and recovery programs come into play. He can use NA, AA, church, family, a combination of these or all the above. But suboxone by itself doesn't "fix" anything. It just helps him detox.

I used subs. Musicman used subs. Lots of people on this forum used subs. But the ones who were successful also had ongoing plans for after the detox, plans for recovery and STAYING CLEAN, not just getting clean. Keep us posted what is happening. Just remember that you can't do this for him no matter how badly you want to. He has to be the participant. If he will commit to following instructions and staying clean I will commit to doing ANYTHING that I can do to help as will several others on this forum.

This is not easy. And it gets worse before it gets better. I always suggest the cold turkey route along with the Thomas Recipe like LOST mentioned to you. If for whatever reason an addict is unable to succeed following those suggestions then I suggest the suboxone route next. The main thing is to have a concrete plan without any "OUTS" for him. HE has to commit and HE has to want to do this. If HE does that, then we can help him and improve his chances for success. Stay in touch and God bless.

[inlovewithanaddict]

LOST- He is 25. And I don't mind you being nosey at all, if it helps. And Robert, I agree with everything you said. My greatest fear is that I won't stick to the terms long term. And I have actually told him about this site and told him that this would be a great way to help him stay clean long term in addition to NA. I have no problem what so ever taking him every day to NA and neither do his parents. And this may sound harsh, but honestly if I don't want him to take subs. To me, that is just something else that he could get addicted to....and its not worth it. I by no means am going to make this time easy for him. I want him to remember this time of getting clean and how it feels. I think that is something that will help him in the future. I know for a fact that he was smoking pot the other times he was detoxing. His NA meeting tonight is closed. But his meeting tomorrow night is open and I don't know how comfortable he would be with me going at this point.

LOST, when did you start trusting your husband again. I'm so happy that 'B' (that is what we will call him) is back. He is acting like the man I fell in love with. But I'm really scared that what Robert said is true, waive a pill in front of him and his guilt, and probably everything else, goes out the window.

How long will the detox last? As soon as I get home from work I think I'll make him go with me to take the dog for a walk, which hopefully will help him feel better.

[Lost83]

Ah trust, well it took a while before I started "trusting" my hubby, I guess it's just based on what you are comfortable with. Right now he is in a crucial stage with detoxing and all so I wouldn't give him any rope to hang himself but once he starts going to his NA meetings religiously and you see him really working his program, it couldn't hurt to let him run to the store or have a non using friend come over. Just a little at a time. He is 25 and will ultimately do what he wants but if he gets some recovery in him, he may not be so inclined to jump on the first pill that crosses his path, he may pick up the phone and call his sponsor or someone else from NA instead. I can't stress enough how important it is to realize we are powerless over their addiction. No one can watch him 24 hours a day. He has to choose this path himself.

Walking the dog is a great idea. When they are left to mope in their own misery while feeling so sick it just adds to the depression that he no doubt is going to go through but like Robert said once those endorphins get going he will start to feel better much faster than if he were to just slump around all day. I also agree that he should attend his NA meetings consequtively for atleast 90 days, get a sponsor and choose a home group.

I don't have any experience with suboxone but it sounds like he should be fine doing this cold turkey. If he is already on day 4 I don't suspect things will get much worse for him, but again, I am only speaking from what I saw from my hubby, everyone is different so I can't say for sure.

I occasionally go to my husbands meetings with him and I learn alot. It helps me with my resentment issues to see others who are in his same position and that have done these awful things to their friends and family but are working their program to better their lives to prevent them from slipping back into these behaviors. It's a good learning experience, I would recommend going with if he is ok with it. Please keep us posted, I will keep you in my prayers! Good luck, let me k now how his first meeting went.

[inlovewithanaddict]

His first meeting was last night. He came back kinda sad. But he said that he never knew how far down the hole he was. And it scared him to hear that he could have fallen alot more. I think that last night was an eye opener. He is going to the same meeting place tonight. He really seemed to enjoy it. He said it was a small group of about 15 and most of them were in the later steps of recovery. He is serious about working the program. Which makes me feel a little better. Last night on the withdrawls, was horrible!!! He is starting to get cranky, his back was still hurting, and to add to it-Since he is out of money he can't smoke. So we decided that we would both quit together. (Might as well) if he is going to detox, it should be all at once. We went to bed early (around 10pm) he woke me up at 1 when he got out of bed, then again at 5:45 when he crawled back into bed. He was cussing and told me he had been awake all night. He has started writing in a notebook. I wanna read it. But I can't bring myself to do that, its an invasion of privacy. But does he have any privacy at this point? Is he allowed that? It seems like everyday new questions come up on how to handle the simplest things.

Oh, on a good note, I came home from work yesterday to find my entire house had been cleaned! It was awesome. He said he couldn't stand just sitting there all day. And I'm not only glad my house was cleaned but I was glad that he got up and moved around. We walked the dog, only for about 10 minutes. He was walking very slow and he just looked tired. It's going to be a high of 30 today so I don't know if we will be walking her tonight....

Any thing that I should be watching out for at this point?

Thank you again for all your support! You're all the best!

[Lost83]

Unless you feel his life is in danger, I would not invade his privacy and read his personal journal. Everyone is entitled to privacy and remember, you can't prevent him from doing something stupid, maybe you can delay it, but ultimately, he is going to do what he wants to regardless of your efforts.

On another note, was he cussing at you or to you? If it was at you I would not allow take his frustrations out on you, he put himself in this position so he needs to deal with it. Are you staying with him at his parents house or is he back with you?

I'm glad he got the motivation to get up and clean the house for you, that's good. Soon he can get out and start looking for a job. Obviously one that doesn't drug test as he will most likely test positive for pot. You'll know for sure once you give him a drug test at home.

That's great that he actually liked his meeting, did he come home with any phone numbers? I personally think that is one of the best support groups he can have at this point. These people are like family and they believe in the therapuetic value of one addict helping another (I'm sure he heard that last night). That's what they are all about. No one can understand what they have gone through if they haven't been there themselves, that's why we stand here thinking how the hell can they do this or that. We won't ever get it. The people in NA do get it. Below is a link you can sign him up for the daily meditations (not what it sounds like, really inspirational reading's related NA and recovery). http://www.jftna.org/jft-subscription.htm

[Robert_325]

I agree with Lost. Leave the journal alone. In fact it's often recommended in NA that we write in a journal. Perhaps he is following instructions he is receiving, I don't know. But after having worked the 12 steps four times myself, only my sponsor has been allowed to read what I've written. If ANYONE else tried to invade my privacy and read what I've written about my recovery I would come unglued. You've insisted that he attend NA meetings regularly, which is good, now allow him a chance to follow through with action. If you are concerned about what is going into that journal then I suggest like I did before that you attend some meetings and find out what is going on first hand. But when a person in recovery writes their story and their feelings in a journal, diary, or whatever you want to call it, that is very personal and is no one else's business.

I suggest that you follow LOST suggestion of subscribing to the daily meditations from the NA Just For Today book of daily meditations. These are subjects that are often discussed during their open meetings. I still say it would help you better understand what is happening if you attended some meetings with him. Maybe not every meeting, but you participating would show a lot more interest to me than insisting on reading my journal. That would pi$$ me off personally. God bless.

[mpvt]

Hi Stephanie:
All these people are giving you exellent advice and you are doing a great job. My question is this; Any chance you can get him to come on line her with us. Addicts talking to addicts in recovery usually is a positive step. Either way, keep your gaurd up and keep a very close eye on him as opiate addiction turns us into uncontrollable liar's,thieve's ect. It does sound as though he's trying and that's great. Good luck and keep in touch with this group as much as possible.......Dave