[Bailey46]

Hi

I started taking vicodin on and off 3 years ago after an auto accident. I wasn't abusing them to badly at that time. 2 Years later I was involved in another severe accident. Went through the cordisone shots on 2 different occasions. Finally the Dr gave me 2 choices, surgery or pain management.

I chose pain management and now, 1 year later and more oxycodone than I care to think about, I'm at the end of my rope.

I have been really struggling with wanting to stop but the w/d's keep from stopping. I tried it several times but within the first day and a half I could not function much less go to work.

Today I had a choice to make and I pray to God I made the right one.

Last week I called my psychiatrist ( I went through severe depression before/during/after my divorce), made an appointment, went in and had a mental breakdown. I told him that I had been taking the oxycodone 15 mg, 4 x's daily for over 6 months and my depression has intensified so much that I've pretty much withdrawn from everything I used to enjoy. My friends, my family and co-workers.

Well, come to find out, he is also a pain addiction doctor and can subscribe suboxone.

I thought I was bi-polar it would get so bad. 1 minute I would be ok, the next I was drowning in utter despair and lonliness. Day after day this went on, and it still is going on even as I sit here typing....my chest will tighten up with pain and despair and the tears will flow

I'm digressing, so I will get back to the choice I just made...

Tomorrow, I had an appointment to see the psychiatrist, he was/is going to start me on suboxone and help me detox off the oxycodone, today I was supposed to have an appt at the pain clinic for a refill. Now, as it happens, the pain clinic called me early this morning and cancelled for today and scheduled for tomorrow. This conflicted with the psych appoint. Heck, at the pain clinic you can wait upwards of 3 hours before you get in to see the doctor and I have to be at work by 12:00.

So I was sitting here googling depression and oxycodone and came across several articles that caught my attention. They mentioned that the opiate will over time cancel out the anti-depressant (I take wellbutrin) and cause the depression to worsen??? and I'm thinking to myself.....that I'm slowly poisoning myself and soon there will be nothing left of who I once was....

I once was very happy, outgoing, talkative, playful, fun, hardworking, enjoyable etc...I haven't seen her in over a year. She's almost gone and that makes me so very sad.

Again, I digress....

So, with a glimmer of hope, I called my psychiatrists office and asked if my appointment time tomorrow was still available, she said yes.

I made the choice to skip the pain clinic tomorrow and see the psychiatrist who promised to help me find myself again, who promised not to leave me during the worst time of my entire life....

I have enough oxies to make it through Saturday and thats it.

I have insurance, but it's in a so called "Interim" period of 90 days due to the divorce, so I pay this pain clinic 275.00 a month for something that is killing me.

I decided to pay the Dr who promised to help me vs pay the man who is helping to kill me.

I'm scared to death of whats going to happen....

I've read so many conflicting stories about suboxone vs subutex, withdrawals from them....

The one thing I do know, is this was probably the best decision I've ever made.

I'm so tired of fighting the mental madness this brings in my head....it never leaves, it's always there making my life hell.

I pray the suboxone helps....I know I have to do the work as it doesn't do it all by itself....

Thanks for reading my woes...

[LondonToLA]

Hi Bailey!

Welcome to the forums! I'm really sorry you're going through all of this, but guess what...so am I! I'm a former HEAVY hydrocodone and ambien abuser. I've been on Suboxone for over a week now and I feel pretty good - more "normal" and like myself than I have in years.

I too have come very close to losing my family and friends, and I have spent WAY too much on drugs than I care to admit.

I think in my humble opinion, that you are doing the right thing with the subs. Just make sure you're at least a score of 26 on the COWS worksheet before you take your first sub or you'll end up in precipitated withdrawal, which is what happened to me when I was first improperly inducted.

We're all on here to help. Hope you stay & continue posting & try to accept the support that we're all here to give each other!

Mike.

[MaisieC]

Hi Bailey,

Hang in there; you're doing the right thing. I first started abusing opiates in order to deal with my depression, and over the long run they did indeed make my depression worse. I got diagnosed as hypo-manic because I was bouncing all over the place emotionally because of the opiates. They definitely mess with your mood.

So you know you've got some work to do, and the road ahead won't be completely smooth. But it's great that your psychiatrist can also treat your addiction; that's a really good situation. Hang tough and follow instructions, and you'll get yourself back. The thing will be to taper you off the suboxone while monitoring your mood and adjusting your anti-depressant as necessary. You'll get through it.

Take good care of yourself,
Maisie

[bev49]

Hi there Baily, glad you made the decision you did. It is the right one. If you can get the subutex rather than suboxone, go for it. Both have the same ingredient, buprenorphine, which is what takes away the w/d symptoms. Suboxone has an added ingredient, narcan, to discourage IV drug users from shooting up, also discourages people from snorting. That obviously isn't your thing so I see no reason why the doc shouldn't give you subutex. However, in some states, doctors only perscribe one. Really, it doesnt matter. Bupe is the active ingredient and when taken properly, the narcan doesnt get absorbed very much. A very small minority of people react poorly but I wouldnt worry about it too much.

How lucky that your psychiatrist is also an addiction doctor. Perfect. A few things which are very important. Do NOT start the sub until you're in moderate to sever withdrawal. Follow the COWS worksheet which you can find online. Make sure youre at 26-28 before you start, feeling pretty badly. Also, do NOT let him give you too high a dose. Almost everyone is fine starting at no more than 8 mgs. a day. Less is more and sometimes people react poorly to the too high doses alot of docs give. Third, speak to people here who have tapered. It should be done in a moderately fast time (Speak to someone named Intelmetal). I promised you won't believe how good you feel, really no w/d at all.

Good luck and keep posting.

[Bailey46]

Thank you!

I believe in signs...and those damn signs have been smacking me every which way they could but I would not follow. I purposely would talk myself out of it because I was/am so afraid of the withdrawals....I send myself into such panic I can hardly speak.

I did a re-count on the the oxies, there is only enough for tomorrow.

An example of the signs...

One desperate day last week I called my psychiatrist, whom I haven't seen in months, and asked for an appointment, at the last moment I asked the receptionist if he also happened to be an addiction Dr. He was. Sign 1. While there he asked if I wanted to detox (duh) and I asked if he could prescribe subs, he could and would. #2

Wednedsay was supposed to be script refill day, it cancelled until Thurs. #3

Enough oxies to last through....Thursday ( I just did a re-count) #4

Mentally played the game of, If the Dr can still see me on Thursday as I had re-scheduled to Friday so I could get my re-fill, then I would choose NOT to get the re-fill. Called his office, they transferred me directly to him, I'm back on for Thursday which means no re-fill. Sign #5

And the last one for now...since I have enough to make it through tomorrow and I have to be in w/d to start the subs, which should be a good 24 hours, which will put me through Friday and no work on Saturday, I should be ok.

Add them all together it equals.........enough is enough.

I've timelined this whole thing out. I'm just praying the Dr will go ahead and prescribe them tomorrow or I'm screwed! But I'm not going to think that way. I will be honest with him and tell him exactly why I cancelled the appt and why I called 6 hours later to get it back. I need his help.

Last week he had blood work done to make sure the mood swings weren't thyroid related, which I know they aren't. Hell, I can take 1 and feel just fine, but I can't seem to stop at 1, I take another.....then I will take a half and pretty soon, I'm so depressed I just want to drop to my knees and beg God to put an end to this. Way back in the beginning they used to make me feel good, they used to take away the pain along with the emotional pain of the divorce, now they only multiply all the bad and none of the good.

I did a search on Subutex in Florida, I do believe they have it here, so YES, it is what I will ask him for. I don't snort or shoot them, but I do chew em up! I also plan on taking them the barest amount of time possible....I've read that they take away all cravings and thoughts for the opiate?? We shall soon see huh?

As far as side effects go, well, pretty much everything we ingest has some side effect so I'm not going to stress over that either....I have read, read and re-read as much as possible. Knowledge is power right?

So.......going to have him start me on the smallest dose possible for the shortest amount of time possible. I just need to detox, not stay on them forever. Maybe a month possibly two, but thats it. Just enough for my brain to re-sort itself and learn to produce the necessary natural enhancers vs the induced ones.

GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ



A person can scare themselves by over analyzing this!! Analysis paralysis at it's finest eh?

I will keep posting and journal my progress......please stay with me while I go through this. I've kept this to myself for so long, and have lost so many people along the way, that I'm literally alone with this

Thank you guys for replying back with your insight and support, I truly appreciate every word written.

Bailey

Suboxone contains Buprenorphine and Naloxone. The Naloxone prevents people shooting or snorting it. Subutex just contains Buprenorphine.

I was on Suboxone for about 2 months and was getting very bad headaches. I told the Doctor and he said that although it is rare, some people are affected by the Naloxone. So, since I was never a shooter or a snorter (and I am NOT saying anything negative if anyone does that) he felt comfortable just prescribing the Subutex.

I was on Subutex for 6 months and it was a miracle - NO CRAVINGS!! But, after 6 months, I had no more money to continue that treatment. (Suboxone and Subutex are not covererd by my Insurance and I was paying for the meds in CASH and it was VERY expensive - $300 every month for the Meds).

So I had to go off of it.....and unfortunately, after about 2 weeks, I started using and abusing again.......

[Bailey46]

Thanks for sharing Debpurple, I appreciate it. I'm very sorry you relapsed but don't let that get you down, put another plan in motion and have some sort of support group when you do stop??

Things didn't go quite as planned today.

I show up at the scheduled appointment time and they don't have me down, so I explained the phone call I made yesterday and they don't remember me calling, yet I have the 2 minute 47 second log on my phoe? Whatever....

I finally received my insurance card in the mail so I have the number vs just my SS #. Apparently with this insurance they need at least 24 hours to verify eligibility for mental health??? Uhm, these are the same people I was seeing no more than 6 month ago and have been seeing them for over 2 years? Is it me? Sometimes I feel like it is me...I am nuts

So, I'm on again for tomorrow morning.....

I did see the doctor and heard him talking to the receptionist behind the glass, he didn't sound as nice as the other day. Maybe he thinks I really am a nut case showing up without an appointment and telling them I talked to imaginary people

Whatever, tomorrow is a new day and I'm determined to do this.

[bev49]

Don't prejudge how nice or not nice the doctor is. Wait til you finally meet him. Don't let the fact the things didn't work out as planned get you down or put a damper on your enthusiasm. Murphy's Law is always in effect. What can go wrong, will . Mental health care is the bastaard child of insurance. That really gets me mad. Good luck with tomorrow. My other pet peeve is how much doctors charge to presribe sub and how much the scrip costs. It's really taking advantage of people in need. Deb, sorry the sub didn't work out for you. I've heard there are ways to get financial aid to get sub if you have no insurance. Ask around or google.

[kindwon]

Don't get down about things taking longer than expected. It will happen, and what is a couple of days when this has been going on so long. It feels like an eternity now but don't worry. I thought I was in the twillight zone before I got on subs. I had to take a pee test and it took like a week for him to get the results. I kept having to find so I could work when I just wanted off. You will be there soon. I was real naive and thought my insurance would cover it, nope. The price for the visit wasn't close to what I was spending on opiates. 150 to start and 75 there after.

[SmlUGotFrenchs]

Originally Posted by bev49

Don't prejudge how nice or not nice the doctor is. Wait til you finally meet him. Don't let the fact the things didn't work out as planned get you down or put a damper on your enthusiasm. Murphy's Law is always in effect. What can go wrong, will . Mental health care is the bastaard child of insurance. That really gets me mad. Good luck with tomorrow. My other pet peeve is how much doctors charge to presribe sub and how much the scrip costs. It's really taking advantage of people in need. Deb, sorry the sub didn't work out for you. I've heard there are ways to get financial aid to get sub if you have no insurance. Ask around or google.

Hey, Bev, don't mean to be a downer, but it sucks to be right (you). I wrote to
Reckitt Benckiser Pharmaceutical and explained my financial/health needs and they were awesome about sending my physician the forms to fill out for FREE medication! The only glitch was they send it to him monthly, and he dispenses it as he sees fit. And I'm not talking dosage-wise, we all know that sad song (these docs don't know a Sub from a hole in the ground); I'm talking financially. Even if Reckitt deems you qualified for FREE medication (which, in my case, they did) it continues to be up to the doctor to decide how to both 1) dispense that medication, and 2) how to charge for it. Oh no, he can't call it "charging for the medication", because after all Reckitt has chosen to give it to you, free of charge. But he can damn sure charge you $300.00 per visit, demand to see you weekly, and whatever dirty little tricks he can come up with. Those 2 were all it took for me; after 3 weeks at $300 per, I was tapped out. So thanks, Reckitt, but until you get a handle on your "prescription assistance program", you leave people like us out in the cold.

I didn't mean to butt in, I just wanted to give you some real world experience with Reckitt and how they administer their program. I'm sure, somewhere buried deep within, were good intentions; as usual, they got usurped by greedy physicians. And this doctor sat and talked to me and wrote RX after RX (he didn't even know me) to go with my new, free RX of Subs; for Seroquel (to sleep), for Ambien (also for sleep) , for Provigil (because after all that sleep medication, who could stay awake?), and for the old favorite Valium...why, well my nerves, of course - I thought for sure he'd get writers' cramp.

Just be leary of everyone, because though I'm sure there are good guys out there, most people worship at the throne of the almighty dollar. These Suboxone people have got a good thing going; so of course, the doctors are going to take advantage and ruin it for the people who really need it. Same old story.

[bev49]

Thanks so much for that story French. I'll think twice before recommending that mode to people. It's the doctors. I am beginning to HATE them in my old(er) age. I have insurance. My sub doctor says "its not worth it to take insurance for this". She sees me for 3 minutes just to write the scrip and charges $100. Thankfully the script is covered by insurance but the stupid copay is $40.00. Without being whiney here, my husband has cancer (in remission) but takes alot of med, I have COPD, asthma and am a diabetic (tons of meds beside sub). Even with insurance, we are being bankrupted by healthcare and the sub adds to the financial pain. Methadone was alot cheaper here in NY. Without getting political, I truly believe we need some form of affordable health care for all. The fact that people can't get help or care or medicine because of money is a sin. I'm stepping off tghe soapbox now... Sorry

[Bailey46]

Good morning and TGIF !!

I'm off to see the psych again. I sure hope today goes smoother than yesterday.

I don't know why I get so scared.....I seem to have lost all self esteem and with that, my backbone

Ok, pulling up my big girl panties and heading out the door!

Have a great and blessed day!

[bev49]

Good luck on your quest, sweetie. I hope your big girl panties are comfortable . We all suffer lack of self esteem. It's part of why we do what we do. Speak up for yourself, ask for the help you need. We are all in your corner and have your back. Let us know how it works out.

[Bailey46]

Thanks Bev !

Yeah, it went pretty well for the most part.

I will be starting suboxone next week, for a lifetime it seems. am going
to post over in the "need to talk" area. I have a feeling I'm going to need
to do a lot of talking/typing.

It makes a lot of sense what you said about the self-esteem, I never thought about it like that. This pill thing all started after the accident, which was 3 weeks after my exH poofed for a girl 15 years younger than him, which he is now divorcing....

Lightbulb moments are happening everyday now that I'm understanding what it is that got me where I am.

You know, I just went back and re-read your post, the one before I posted. The"signs" you described are unbelievable.....it is exactly what I would call signs, too, if that happened to me!

Your post was so real and so honest, thank you for sharing.

Yes, you need to be in w/d when you start the Sub. It's good to be in at least 24 hours minimum before getting the Sub. I know it seems like forever, but I SWEAR to you,you will fel better after one or two subs (probably about 12 to 16) mgs. DISSOLVE them under your tongue, DO NOT CHEW OR SWALLOW WHOLE or they will not work....(not yelling, just....talking louder right there...lolololol ) But yes, you need to dissolve them under your tongue, takes about 10 minutes and they taste kind of orange-ish....

Thanks again for sharing BAILY46, I wish you the best of luck - keep posting!

[magsj]

Dear Bevpurpletiger:

I know you are trying to help people here, but I have read a few of your replys to people regarding opiates, subs, etc. etc. as well as your statement that you work in the medical field and know "quite a bit about all Opiate Painkillers".

I feel I must say something. Your advice regarding Sub induction and dosages are, in my opinion, not quite correct. There is a gentleman who is very knowledgeable about suboxone that helps people on this forum - Robert. Actually, I and many others consider him to be an "expert" in this field. His knowledge about suboxone, induction and dosages is far greater than most physicians who specialize in the field. While I know you are just trying to help, sub induction can take longer than 24 hours (depends on what your DOC was, how your body metabolizes drugs, and many other factors....the only way to be sure you are in enough withdrawal for induction of Suboxone or Subutex is to complete a COWS worksheet, it doesn't matter how many hours have passed since your last dose of opiates, what matters is how high your withdrawal score is. Secondly, most people can induct at a much lower dose than 12 to 16mg of Subs, if induction is done correctly.

Please note, I am only passing on what I know to be the correct advice. I also work in the medical field, I am an RN, and I try very hard not to give anyone advice regarding medical issues unless I am absolutely positive it is correct.

Again, I know you are trying to help, but I felt that some of your advice regarding subs was not quite accurate.

Best Wishes,

mags

[Robert_325]

Mags .... Thanks for that post. I missed the above information or I would have commented. You are exactly correct. For anyone who needs the information here is a link explaining how I have successfully helped people here for almost two years now. It works and 16mg is WAY too much. I inducted one person on 1.25mg the other day, consistently we do it at 4-6mg. We hardly EVER use over 8mg for induction and that is just about TOPS. God bless.

http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-...apy-50887.html

I must apologize as I made a mistake on the Induction dosage of Suboxone - what I meant to say was that the Induction starts (usually) at 2mg and then 2 more until you get W/D relief. For me personally, 4mg daily worked fine. I apologize for the incorrect info!!!!!

[Robert_325]

Deb ....... No apology required. We are all here to help each other. Anything I can do to help let me know. God bless.

Thanks Robert