I am stabilized on Methadone and off of the streets...what now?

[ohhowhelovesusso]

Hello! I am new to these forums and I was hoping to explain my situation and get some advice from those who have been through this before. I am an opioid addict and I was doing about 80-120mg of Oxycodone a day. I have found help at a methadone clinic and I have controlled the withdraw symptoms with 75mg of methadone administered every morning. I have been taking the methadone for about 35 days now. I am totally off of other opiates and all other illicit drugs. The feeling of having my life back is just SO AMAZING. I no longer feel enslaved to the whole process of finding money, finding drugs, repeat. I know this victory is bittersweet as I am obviously still physically dependent on opiates. Also, I am aware that methadone withdrawal is in fact worse than oxycodone withdrawal. With that said, I have a few questions I was hoping to get answered!

1. I know that methadone withdrawal is generally more painful and severe than oxycodone withdrawal. Given that I have only been taking it for 35 days so far, is it early enough to start weening down quickly without experiencing the full effects of methadone withdrawal? After this amount of time, Is my body already fully physically dependent on the methadone?

2. I was hoping for some opinions on the best way to taper. I mainly was hoping to know how many mg's I should lower over the amount of time. ie: 1mg a day.... 5mg a week....so on. Also from what I've researched, I know that when I get to lower doses the tapering should become even slower to further prevent withdrawal symptoms.

I appreciate any help I can get! If there is any other advice that has to do with detoxing that I didn't mention feel free to post about that as well. Also, I am well informed about the long road to recovery AFTER detoxification. I used to be too hard headed and when I got a month sober off of cocaine in the past I mistakenly thought the battle with drugs was over and won. Given that I am now physically dependent on opiates a few years later, I now know the importance of having a support system and the steps necessary to maintain sobriety over time. Once again thank you so much !

[cheekysod]

hi there,
been there done that too matey, methadone, now suboxone. after long years of opiate abuse too, like you ive had the odd period of being clean, but thought it was cool to just have one. wrong, doesnt work that way does it.

ah well, ok 75mg and you are feeling stable, cool. up on that dose you should be able to handle 5mg drops, try one and see how ya go. should be sweet.

i tapered right down one time to zero, didnt go so well for me coz i was using morphine and illicit methadone on the side, moved to another country, then the shyte hit the fan bigtime, yeh methadone withdrawl aint no walk in the park,
take your time, and maybe when you are lower than 30mg you could switch to subs, a lot of people do that. im currently on .5mg of sub, started at 12 a year ago, but i have settled on that dose and stickin there, doin some lifestyle changes, its good.

oh and after 35 days, yep you would have a lot in your system, got a mean half life, so each day it builds up, and up, and up.

hope that helps anyway, sweet, take it easy

kiwi
cheeky

[yezdegerd]

That's a pretty high amount of methadone to be honest. I took that much lortab/oxycodone/contin if not more everyday for a couple years, and when I went into detox it was a 40/30/20/10 taper and i felt no pain. So yes, I would suggest you to start weening off

[ohhowhelovesusso]

I have a feeling my dose of methadone is way too high in the first place. The first few days of moving up to this dose I was actually feeling nausea. (Not the withdrawal nausea but the I've overdone it kinda nausea). Since I have been clean and on this dose I notice that I require MASSIVE amounts of sleep. I get about 8-9 hours of sleep at night and I nap another 3 hours sometime throughout the day EVERY day. I'm not sure if it's an effect of too much methadone, or just a side effect. I'm planning on making some changes to counteract this and become more healthy though. I have faith that all will work out.

[cheekysod]

i didnt think 75 was too high a dose, but everyone is different. got mates on 150, i used to be on about a 100.

yep, you will surely want lots of sleep, i used to drop off like clockwork every night after dinner, then wake up later, then go to bed, could sleep for africa thats for sure.

if you were feeling nausea, yep, too much. good idea to start tryin to taper, like i said, maybe try 10 or 5 mg drop and see how ya go. all the best mate, it is a pretty hard one to kick, methadone should be used when all else fails,
i ended up on it for 7 years the first time, then hooked back into it, and had another 3 years recently. thats all after long time using iv morphine and opium etc,

talk with your clinic, ask if you can try and drop, theyre usually willing to work with people, least you wanna get off, too many are just happy to stay there.

good luck
cheeky

ps weight gain is pretty common too, and are you craving sweet stuff. lots of methadone people are massive sugar junkies as well. just so you know, be careful, heh heh

[yezdegerd]

i didnt think 75 was too high a dose, but everyone is different. got mates on 150, i used to be on about a 100.

yep, you will surely want lots of sleep, i used to drop off like clockwork every night after dinner, then wake up later, then go to bed, could sleep for africa thats for sure.

if you were feeling nausea, yep, too much. good idea to start tryin to taper, like i said, maybe try 10 or 5 mg drop and see how ya go. all the best mate, it is a pretty hard one to kick, methadone should be used when all else fails,
i ended up on it for 7 years the first time, then hooked back into it, and had another 3 years recently. thats all after long time using iv morphine and opium etc,

talk with your clinic, ask if you can try and drop, theyre usually willing to work with people, least you wanna get off, too many are just happy to stay there.

good luck
cheeky

ps weight gain is pretty common too, and are you craving sweet stuff. lots of methadone people are massive sugar junkies as well. just so you know, be careful, heh heh

IR tablets are easier to detox off than contin/morphine. Achey for sure, but bearable ( around your home at least, work not so much ). even at 10mg of methadone I felt no WD symptoms and none the next week either, just depression and anxiety. Taper down brotha, I'd do 10mg less a day, linger at 10-20 if needed but don't get strung out on those also, you've still not dealt with the hardest part and thats the mental phase of it, your still high on methadone. Its a xxxxxx feeling though I hated that stuff. felt like a zombie

[kathrynk007]

Hello "Ohhow......." (too long for me to remember the spelling...LOL),

First off, I think it's great that you got under a doctors care and off the streets. That's an awesome first step onto the long road back to sobriety.

As far as whether you should start tapering yet, each person's situation is different. For me, i waitied until I was stable in my personal life so that I would not have at least double the anxiety (which, for me, would have prolly resulted in a relapse).

A good suggestion is to really talk to your counselor about what goals you have in your life now (remember "baby steps"). Get your life in as much order as you can with plenty of non-addicted people who will support you instead of drag you down (you know, let go of the old "people, places and things"?).

Bottom line is only you can reach that decision. You can go several ways with it; however, if it was me I would stabilize first and then start a very slow taper to minimize your chances of relapse. Remember, opiates are the hardest drug of all to beat due to people wanting to do it "their way" and not listen to professionals (among many other reasons)

Enjoy life a little without the bonds of having to "get well" every few hours......search your soul and when you truly feel you are ready, come up with a plan (and a "back up" plan") with your counselor and begin the process.

If it gets too uncomfortable at a certain dose, stop for a week or so and let your body adjust before you start going down again. Listen to your body.

You have made the first step in the right direction....now it's about fine tuning it and finding which way will work for you.

I am currently working on detoxing from 3 years of Suboxone addiction. I am also starting to accept that there is really no easy way off opiates, but if we listen to the right people in can be (and is) doable.

Good luck to you! xoxox Kathryn

[lilgirllost]

That's a pretty high amount of methadone to be honest. I took that much lortab/oxycodone/contin if not more everyday for a couple years, and when I went into detox it was a 40/30/20/10 taper and i felt no pain. So yes, I would suggest you to start weening off

Each person is different, what amount may work for some may not work for others. There are several factors that influence the dose that will hold you and keep you from cravings and withdrawals so again, each person is different and that is not that high of a dose for an opiate addict.

theyre usually willing to work with people, least you wanna get off, too many are just happy to stay there.

This statement is one I consider an unfair statement as well. You have to understand how opiate addiction works to understand why there are some ppl that stay of MMT (methadone maintenance treatment) for many years and/or their entire life.

Abuse of opiates alter the chemicals in your brain. It triggers those "feel good" receptors and the brain gets use to having those high amounts of opiates triggering the receptors just to function. As an opiate addict, you remember how eventually it wasn't even to get high anymore, it was just to "feel normal"?? That is what I am talking about. The brain has gotten so use to those high amounts of opiates just to feel normal that without them, you can have problems weeks and even MONTHS after the actual physcial withdrawals are over with.

That is where MMT or ORT (opiate replacement therapy) w/suboxone comes in. It triggers those opiates receptors to produce the "normal" feeling without the high that short acting opiates provide.

Just like a Type II diabedic whose body no longer produces insulin because of weight gain and being overweight. An opiate addicts body no longer produces enough endorphines that trigger those brain receptors.

Some diabedics can change their diet and add exercise and once they lose weight, their body can regulate it's own blood sugar again. Some ppl have to take medication in addition to diet and exercise. Of those that take meds, some can take it for a period of time and then eventually their body starts making it's own insulin again and they can get off the meds. But some ppl, their body has been damaged too badly and no matter what they do or how long they stay on the meds, thier body will never recover and they will contiinue to take the insulin for the rest of their lives. You wouldn't tell that person that it's your own fault you have diabetes or that you can't control yourself so you got too fat, or that they can only stay on the meds for a period of a year or two and then they have to get off regardless if they are well enough to get off the meds or not.

Same with opiate addiction. Some can do it w/o any medication at all, therapy only. Some need medication along w/.therapy and after a while, their brain heals itself enough and they can get off the medication. BUT there are others whose brain receptors have been so altered from opiate abuse that they will never heal themselves and produce the chemicals properly and they will have to stay on medication and therapy for the rest of their lives. Usually those are the ones who have been in active addiction for many, many years but they DO exist!. It took many years to get to this point in your addiction, it will take just as long if not longer if the body is going to be able to heal itself properly enough for you to get off the medication.

We use to look down on ppl that suffered from depression. We thought they were crazy, we thought they should be able to snap out of it or think themselves happy or even lord forbid that they were just seeking attention. If one of them admitted to taking antidepressants, well they were even crazier than the others! Now we know how wrong that thinking was! It is a chemical imbalance in the brain, not a behavior issue or lack of self control! We now don't look down our noses at ppl who suffer w/depression and actually even applaud them for realizing they had a problem and seeking help!

Some ppl who suffer from depression can get better with therapy alone. Some need medication as well as therapy but after a while, their brain heals itself and they are able to get off the meds. BUT a large part of depression sufferers will stay on the meds for the rest of their lives and we don't beat them over the head and tell them they have no self control.

One last thing and I will shut up, but there is a big difference in being addicted and being dependent on a medication. Active addiction, any addict who is honest with themselves is familiar with "active addiction" and can tell the difference in active addiction and addiction that is in remission. When a person is on ORT, they are no longer in active addiction anymore. Thier illness is in remission. They are dependent on the medication to function normally yes, again, just like the diabedic or the depression sufferer who takes medication to keep their illness under control, so does the opiate addict on ORT. But they are no longer running around doctor shopping, buying pills off the street, stealing money to support their habit, putting their need for drugs in front of everyone else that means anything to them. Their illness is in remission thanks for the medication.

We need to understand opiate addiction and how it affects the brain and the body and stop being so freaking self righteous and biased! We need to stop looking down our noses at ppl who seek help through ORT and be glad that they are seeking help and trying to fix their problem. Stop beating them over the head and telling them they are weak because they have to take medication to control their illness. You would never say that to a Type 2 diabedic or depression sufferer who needs medication so stop saying it to the opiate addict who needs medication.

The ones that really shock me are those of you who have actually been through opiate addction yourself who act so self righteous! You would figure you of all ppl would be more understanding and sympathetic. Just because you were able to treat yours with out meds or only being on meds a short time doesn't make you any better than someone who stays on for years or the rest of their lives. You still did the same horrible ugly things to yourself and your loved ones so you are no better than they are just because you were able to do it w/o meds or only on meds for a short time.

Cheekysod, you even said yourself you were on it for 7 yrs the first time and then relapsed again and did another 3 yrs. So maybe you got off too soon the first time around? If you had given it a wee bit longer and not gotten off so fast, maybe you wouldn't have relapsed and had to get back on it. Again, it took many years to get to the point in our addiction where we finally realize we need help and want help, it will take just as long if not longer to repair the damage that has been done.

I don't mean to come across as a biddy here. All I want to do is give ppl accurate info about opiate addiction and how it affects the body and try to change the attitudes ppl have about those opiate addicts who seek treatment through ORT. It's not fair to look down upon them anymore. We have accurate medical proof that this is a medical condition not a behavorial issue so we need to start treating those who suffer from it with a bit more dignity than in the past. You would never tell a cancer pt that because they smoked all those years now they are getting what they deserve would you? No, and we shouldn't treat opiate addict that way either.

[cheekysod]

lilgirllost,

woah there, you think my statement is unfair, jeez give me a break, i am encouraging the guy, i dont see much in your post that he actually asked for.

ah yes, i do understand addiction all too well thanks, and coming along here picking apart a post that is supportive, is not helping at all, read his initial post again if you need to.

more to the point, i mentioned why i did 7 and then relapsed again to prove this very point, i know they DO exist, i have many friends still sitting on long term methadone, i was not bagging them, mainly pointing out to the op that at least he does want to get off.

you are preaching to the converted, the guy was asking for some advice on how to taper, from someone who knows, not a pile of cr@p about how ya might need to stay on forever, HE WANTS TO GET OFF.

get off my case, i try and support people here, there is no self righteousness in my post, nor am i looking down on this guy, jeez i cant beleive all that amount of raving, when all i did was give the guy some advice, from someone who has been in his shoes. and never once did i say he was weak, so you get it right if you are gonna criticize people. (which is all i can see in your post, not just to me either. hah..


ohhowhelovesusso

you go for it guy, like YOU said, you understand you are gonna need support, and you do want to get off, i repeat, and some of the others agree, dont hurry, yes you can do this, (if YOU want to),
ask away with any questions matey, i will try and give you a hand. im pretty darn sure you know i wasnt judging or lookin down on you in any way at all.

good on ya mate
cheeky

[newyorkgal]

lilgirl, As a type II diabetic and a long term opiate addict on long term ORT, I appreciate the medical lesson in your post but really, there is nothing in your post that we all don't already know. Cheeky, self righteous? Hahaha..... Not ever. She is one of the most honest people here. Everyone knows she's on ORT so your attack is unwarranted. I also am on ORT and have been for over many many years (over 30 years on methadone and approx 2 on sub)...FIrst of all the original poster is on methadone for THIRTY FIVE DAYS... While the half life of methadone is long and he is addicted, if he wants off, now would be the opportune time. If he chose ORT long term, that would be his decision and I'm sure I (and cheeky) would support that too. But he wants off and surely should try to get off first since he's on such a short time and there is no time better than the present to go for it. I just read your post again and again I don't get it. Talk about self righteous.... Your rant explaining ORT (and insulin and anti depressants); your assumption that no one is aware of the facts; your accusation about people (cheeky and others) being self righteous on this thread, well I felt THAT was self righteous and condescending as hxll..

To the original poster who wants info on weaning off methadone, I would say there is NO problem whatsoever getting down to 40 or lower and you can drop 5 or even 10 mgs. a week. Follow what your body tells you and if a drop feels too steep, slow it down. (I was on methadone for over 30 years, most of them on 80 mgs. and went down to 25 with zero problem.) Once I got down to 40 I'd drop 5 a week approx. til I reached 20 mg. Then I would drop 2 a week then 1 mg. at the end. I would try to be aggressive since you're only on 35 days and the longer on the harder off. When you hit 1 mg., you can skip days.... If you so choose, you can also switch to subutex when you get down to 30 mgs. It's an different opiate but if done proerly, it can be tapered in a matter of weeks. Meth is a hard one to get off of but after only 35 days, it should be okay. Good luck.