[Hellenback]

I have been on prescription opiate pain medication of one kind or another for 27 years. It started when I was 26 with a failed operation on my spine. (Actually I took over the counter codeine before then, so it's closer to 30 years!) Then another back operation five years later. Then a motorcycle accident (in which I nearly lost my left leg) two years after that, necessitating three more operations over a year and a half.
Needless to say the opiates went from strong to stronger to strongest, with periods of intravenous use and then six years on methadone. (Combined with a serious alcohol dependency and the use of nearly every "recreational" drug under the sun.)
Eight years ago I was taken off methadone and put on sustained release morphine due to lousy pain management on the methadone.
I moved across the country to get away from my past illicit drug use. For the last eight years I have taken only what has been prescribed as it has been prescribed. I am presently taking a regimen of Hydromorph S.R.,(8x12mg) Oxycontin,(4x20mg) and Dilaudid,(Hydromorph immediate release) (3x8mg) for rescue. I have also been prescribed diazepam for the same period of time but have reduced to 10mg a day from 40mg. over the years.
I have been told by every doctor that I have approached that there is no sense in even attempting to do without opiates. They no longer relieve pain as they did in the past(as far as I can tell) and I feel I am taking them primarily to ward of withdrawal, (which after this amount of time is thought to be too dangerous or impossible by those I have approached.)
My question is: To anyone's knowledge, has someone in a similar situation been successful in there attempt to stop taking opiates altogether and learned to deal with their pain in another manner (after this much time)? If anyone out there has done so, or knows someone who has, would you please respond to this post?
I am fifty three years old and my quality of life is next to none, apart from hope in the next one.[8]

[mpvt]

You could try buprenorphene???It's been having a high level of success with addicts.I've been addicted close to 25 years due to back and knee surgeries and have been on them all too.I'm lucky though because methadone has worked for me for the past 3 years.I have to take 400mgs a day but it doesn't leave me sedated or loopy at all and it does well for my pain.Buprenorphene is about 4 times stronger then morphine.Have a look and good luck www.suboxone.com........Dave

[Hellenback]

quote:Originally posted by mpvt

You could try buprenorphene???It's been having a high level of success with addicts.I've been addicted close to 25 years due to back and knee surgeries and have been on them all too.I'm lucky though because methadone has worked for me for the past 3 years.I have to take 400mgs a day but it doesn't leave me sedated or loopy at all and it does well for my pain.Buprenorphene is about 4 times stronger then morphine.Have a look and good luck www.suboxone.com........Dave

[Hellenback]

I just hit the post key by accident before writing this post!
Thanks for the input Dave but it seems I am being further confirmed that there is no way off opiates.
I've read a few of the posts on pain/addiction complex since discovering this site and there is very little agreement about the benefits and/or drawbacks of methadone use, (just as there is among doctors and their patients). I can say from my own experience with it, that like all other opiates there seems to be an effectiveness timeline. As mentioned in the first post I was on it for over six years and it worked for the first few.
Perhaps my dose wasn't sufficient for my tolerance level @ 100 Mgs. but I found the runaround and association with other "less motivated addicts" to be intolerable. Now that I am more responsible in my own use of Rx drugs perhaps the situation would be better but going back on methadone after eight years seems counter-productive (in my case at least). It was literally years before I felt the methadone had left my system on the deepest level.
Your suggestion regarding buprenorphine might be something to look into as a rotation drug but hydromorphine is five times stronger per weight than morphine as well and it makes up the lion's share of my Rx.
I notice you reside in Canada where the cost of our drugs is most often covered by the Gov't if we cannot afford it. The thing is, if you are on a diability pension, (in Ontario at least) the only way methadone gets paid for as a pain medication is if you jump through the same hoops as addicts wihtout chronic pain issues.
I fear my rentry into the mehtadone program (and some of the people therein) could quite possibly lead to the old irresponsible behavior I used to indulge in.
As you are likely aware, addiction/drug dependence is a lonely road and it is very easy to get involved with the dysfunctional element in the program just to have some company. Methadone "buddies" are very hard to shake once any kind of relationship is established. I feel the lack of discernment regarding who has to be closely monitered (if the Gov't covers the cost) regardless of the reason for one's use of methadone to be enough reason in itself to avoid the drug (unless it is your only option). Good luck with your pain management. I hope the methadone keeps working for you. If four hundred Mg's ever becomes ineffective due to tolerance I don't know what you will do. I suppose you'll cross that bridge.....

quote:Originally posted by mpvt

You could try buprenorphene???It's been having a high level of success with addicts.I've been addicted close to 25 years due to back and knee surgeries and have been on them all too.I'm lucky though because methadone has worked for me for the past 3 years.I have to take 400mgs a day but it doesn't leave me sedated or loopy at all and it does well for my pain.Buprenorphene is about 4 times stronger then morphine.Have a look and good luck www.suboxone.com........Dave

[mpvt]

Have you been on the patch (duragesic)????Fentynal is the strongest drug available and alot of doctor's are starting to use the patch on their chronic pain patients.I live in Belleville and we have 2 clinics here,a First Step and an OATC both of them have a good number of patients.My methadone doctor is in Oshawa.I started out at First Step in Oshawa because we didn't have any clinics here back then and Kingston was filled up.I was at First Step for maybe 6 months when my doctor phoned me and said he was leaving First Step and I was welcomed to stay with him or stay.I chose to go with the doctor and I'm glad I did.He was treating as a strait addict at First Step.I would go in to see him and he would say "let me see your arms" I would tell him I have never shot anything through my viens but he kept checkin.Once I started seeing him in his own office the man totally changed.He was relaxed and concerned about my pain and health.He went so far as to apoligize for treating me as just an addict.Anyway he immediately started raising my dose because I was still using morphine everyday.Once I hit 250mgs I stopped using outside drugs.I went to 400mgs and stayed there for over a year.I've been stable now for a couple of years and in the last few months I have come down to 330mgs.Due to the make up of methadone it's very difficult to build a tolerance to it.I know one guy who is addict/pain and in the first 5 years he had one raise of 20mgs.You sound as though you get used to the pain killers quickly too.My mom and dad were both prescription addicts so I figure I must have got a double dose of that gene lol.I started out with high doses because they just didn't seem to work.Anyway, I hope you can get things worked out because living in uncontrolled pain is terrible and can turn a man into a monster.Good luck.....Dave

[Hellenback]

Hi Dave,
I've been on the patch for a few months but I ran out of places to stick it. They cause severe irritation at the application sites after awhile and there isn't enough down time between applications in different areas for them to heal. The pain relief wasn't any different than other opiates. You seem to think that because a medication is stronger per Mg it is more effective but I have found this to be untrue. After awhile any of the refined morphine opiates are pretty much the same in effect if you take the eqivalent dose. I agree that it is better to take the stongest one available if only to lower the toll on your organs' processing ability. Sometimes a switch in the drug seems to help a bit and this is apparently due to the subtle difference between opiate receptors in our brain. Although dilaudid (hydromorphine) is stronger than oxycodone I am finding more relief with the Oxy (as I have been on hydromorph for years).
Tolerance is tolerance though and after this long nothing works like it used to no matter how much you take. I sense by past experience that methadone may get "deeper" into one's system but eventually one is left with the same effect (or lack thereof). I may end up on it again (when all else fails completely) but the whole point of my initial post was to inquire about the possibility of not using anything after so many years. 400 mgs of methadone may kill my pain better for awhile but I am not prepared to pay the toll it takes in the long run (again) quite yet. I suppose I am hoping for a miracle of sorts. I'm not expecting one but they do happen and it ain't over till it's over! Going back on methadone , (for myself at least) would put these hopes to bed for good (unless I was using it to taper off using everything). And now we have come full circle!
P.S. I am incredibly grateful to be living in Canada and to have the help and support of knowledgable and sympathetic doctors. I CAN live with the pain I have and I do get enough relief to make life worth living. They must be working somewhat as I am able to sit here and type my thoughts! I suppose in the end we all live within the consequences of our actions and decisions.
Peace.

quote:Originally posted by mpvt

Have you been on the patch (duragesic)????Fentynal is the strongest drug available and alot of doctor's are starting to use the patch on their chronic pain patients.I live in Belleville and we have 2 clinics here,a First Step and an OATC both of them have a good number of patients.My methadone doctor is in Oshawa.I started out at First Step in Oshawa because we didn't have any clinics here back then and Kingston was filled up.I was at First Step for maybe 6 months when my doctor phoned me and said he was leaving First Step and I was welcomed to stay with him or stay.I chose to go with the doctor and I'm glad I did.He was treating as a strait addict at First Step.I would go in to see him and he would say "let me see your arms" I would tell him I have never shot anything through my viens but he kept checkin.Once I started seeing him in his own office the man totally changed.He was relaxed and concerned about my pain and health.He went so far as to apoligize for treating me as just an addict.Anyway he immediately started raising my dose because I was still using morphine everyday.Once I hit 250mgs I stopped using outside drugs.I went to 400mgs and stayed there for over a year.I've been stable now for a couple of years and in the last few months I have come down to 330mgs.Due to the make up of methadone it's very difficult to build a tolerance to it.I know one guy who is addict/pain and in the first 5 years he had one raise of 20mgs.You sound as though you get used to the pain killers quickly too.My mom and dad were both prescription addicts so I figure I must have got a double dose of that gene lol.I started out with high doses because they just didn't seem to work.Anyway, I hope you can get things worked out because living in uncontrolled pain is terrible and can turn a man into a monster.Good luck.....Dave

[Hellenback]

I just reread my first post. I must have ben having a real bad day!

quote:Originally posted by Hellenback

Hi Dave,
I've been on the patch for a few months but I ran out of places to stick it. They cause severe irritation at the application sites after awhile and there isn't enough down time between applications in different areas for them to heal. The pain relief wasn't any different than other opiates. You seem to think that because a medication is stronger per Mg it is more effective but I have found this to be untrue. After awhile any of the refined morphine opiates are pretty much the same in effect if you take the eqivalent dose. I agree that it is better to take the stongest one available if only to lower the toll on your organs' processing ability. Sometimes a switch in the drug seems to help a bit and this is apparently due to the subtle difference between opiate receptors in our brain. Although dilaudid (hydromorphine) is stronger than oxycodone I am finding more relief with the Oxy (as I have been on hydromorph for years).
Tolerance is tolerance though and after this long nothing works like it used to no matter how much you take. I sense by past experience that methadone may get "deeper" into one's system but eventually one is left with the same effect (or lack thereof). I may end up on it again (when all else fails completely) but the whole point of my initial post was to inquire about the possibility of not using anything after so many years. 400 mgs of methadone may kill my pain better for awhile but I am not prepared to pay the toll it takes in the long run (again) quite yet. I suppose I am hoping for a miracle of sorts. I'm not expecting one but they do happen and it ain't over till it's over! Going back on methadone , (for myself at least) would put these hopes to bed for good (unless I was using it to taper off using everything). And now we have come full circle!
P.S. I am incredibly grateful to be living in Canada and to have the help and support of knowledgable and sympathetic doctors. I CAN live with the pain I have and I do get enough relief to make life worth living. They must be working somewhat as I am able to sit here and type my thoughts! I suppose in the end we all live within the consequences of our actions and decisions.
Peace.

[Cats Meow]

In your situation you should take whatever makes you comfortable. What about smoking marijuana? It might do you a world of good. I know someone in your boat, but not for as many years, he's tried the morphine pump, everything, but he has an addictive personality, and just a plain addict.
I think you should just keep trying anything you can get, try to find the right mix that makes you comfortable, forget about it being for too long, you need it. Maybe you can get some liquid morphine for break through pain. Try the pot, so what if it's illegal, if it helps, then great, it sure is less harmful then anything else you could take.

^..^ ~~ ,
=´`= ___ )-~

[Hellenback]

Thanks for the reply and the support. I smoke dope once in awhile but find it makes me pretty lethargic and I tend to gain weight as I eat way more! The more I weigh the more I have to carry around on my bad leg and back so it's a trade off that only pays off if I use it occasionally.
Breakthrough is a problem just because of the amount of narcotic I am on. a little fasting from it once in awhile (for the morning and afternoon anyway) gives me some better "up" time if I need it for doing something important. Your advice is sound and is much appreciated as there are very few people who can relate in any way to my situation. I do my best to get by on what I'm prescribed and am very appreciative of the fact that I live in Canada! Thanks again.( I'll read some of your posts when I get time to get to know your story.)

quote:Originally posted by Cats Meow

In your situation you should take whatever makes you comfortable. What about smoking marijuana? It might do you a world of good. I know someone in your boat, but not for as many years, he's tried the morphine pump, everything, but he has an addictive personality, and just a plain addict.
I think you should just keep trying anything you can get, try to find the right mix that makes you comfortable, forget about it being for too long, you need it. Maybe you can get some liquid morphine for break through pain. Try the pot, so what if it's illegal, if it helps, then great, it sure is less harmful then anything else you could take.

^..^ ~~ ,
=´`= ___ )-~